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Strong (not sexualised) female characters in this generation?
- Thread starter Des0lar
- Start date
Basically. XDIzayoi said:
OMG, she's wearing a tank top..that slut!!!
OMG, she moans when she's in pain..so she's having multiple orgasms!!!
I thought my earlier mentions were going to be "lame"; but turns out that:
Chell: lol tanktop = boobs
Elena: Short pants in #1 and shows belly in #2 = slut
Lara: Tank top and moans in the demo = Sexual intentions
Zelda: lol animu = panties = sex
SolidSnakex
Member
milkyjay20 said:
The new Lara isn't going to have a weak personality. The vulnerability aspect comes from them believing that people couldn't connect to her because she came across as being invincible in the previous games. If you look at popular characters like Snake or Drake you'll see that neither of them are like that. They get beat up pretty badly in their games. But they both still have strong personalities.
Typographenia
Member
Ami is Ueda, I knew it! All the signs were pointing to the obvious, but I chose to ignore them.Amir0x said:
This thread makes me feel guilty for not having played Folklore, now.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Jerk said:
Wait, what? "How masculine the character looks"? Why is masculinity something for a female character to strive for? People are treating masculinity like it's a litmus test for how "good" a character is.
I feel like some of you are inadvertently wishing away some of the flavor of character design. Women can be feminine, masculine, or anywhere in between.
SolidSnakex said:
man i want to know who thought she came across as invincible in the previous games?
Classic Tomb Raider is all about getting tore apart by dinosaurs, bears, tigers. It's all about falling down pits and hearing a piercing scream before you listen to every bone in her body snap. It's all about getting sliced up by blade and spike traps, making a desperate jump only to miss a ledge by mere inches and cracking your head on a boulder on the fall down.
How did she come across as invincible?
Typographenia said:
Haha, that is exactly who I was thinking of when I made the comment.
The fact is, Enslaved is a prototype for sexualization of gender roles in videogames. Trip and Monkey are atrociously written characters who should embarrass any self-ware gamer who encounters them. It's absolutely a joke, re:
Amir0x said:
I'm surprised it took this long. Trip was a great character, who was beautiful without being sexualized.Saty said:
Red Dead Redemption was a good one too, all of the women in that game were well constructed.
Chell is a SHELL of a character, she has almost no story. Just like the Samus of yesteryear, let's not confuse no story with "strength."
Kat in Halo: Reach was the only character of interest in the story for me, but again, the story was secondary.
The new Tomb Raider is hard to tell, but it's silly to use her grunts of pain as sexualization. It was certainly overdone in the footage we saw, but that's only a sexual noise to people looking for it.
So many of the women pictured in this thread are obviously sexualized just from looking at their outfits. Someone on the first page even said Bayonetta.
Phonomezer
Banned
Kinyou said:
Should have been the first post. Imho the most believable strong female character created so far.
This. She is also incredibly likeable.
BigJiantRobut said:
Wrong. I am specifically referring to an example when a character is designed in such a way that they can almost pass as male. The writers/artists/designers sometimes add the heels as a lazy way to remind us that the character is indeed female.
Bared midriff can be used in a similar way as well.
BigJiantRobut said:
well yeah, I guess, I don't know much about dom/sub stuff but I was just pointing out why for some people, high heels are just another sign of a male-centric female characters design. Obviously, it can be a lot more nuanced than that but most of the time it comes down to heels=hot!
djplaeskool
Member
Dissonance said:
Haha.
I had the biggest nerd-crush on Lyndis...
Billychu said:
Trip is the worst selection. I just think people are picking any female character that appears in games they like, because there can be no clearer example of someone failing to critically analyze a selection than that.
At least Sheva shoots shit and is just a neutral role if you never buy her lame tribal outfit. Trip is actually offensively stereotypical in her sexualized gender role.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Jerk said:
But why does a female character need to pass as male to be considered strong? Because apparently, heels, skirts, cleavage, and other "feminine" clothing is sexualized. A woman shouldn't have to cover up her sexuality to be taken seriously.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Ugh, I avoid OT GAF to stay away from threads like this.
EatChildren said:
I should have explained further, but BigJiantRobut said what I meant to say (I think):
I generally feel, in my observations, that "neutrality" is more masculine than it is feminine, but this very well may be my own societal conditioning skewing my interpretation of this.
PdotMichael
Banned
geebee said:
It was a small part of the storyline and well integrated. She was no Sexbomb character
Devolution
Member
Kat from Reach.
What a lame death though. Sniped outta nowhere.
Sexualized isn't a bad thing though, all depends on context. If a female character is tough but lacks personality that's not much better than an overly sexualized barbie doll.
What a lame death though. Sniped outta nowhere.
Sexualized isn't a bad thing though, all depends on context. If a female character is tough but lacks personality that's not much better than an overly sexualized barbie doll.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Jerk said:
The great thing about FemShep is she's is a product of design limitations. To write an entire script for each gender would be a hugely inefficient waste of resources. BioWare took the most logical step, for developing a video game, and simply wrote a script where 90%+ of dialogue could be stretched neutrally across both genders.
It works tremendously in FemShep's favour. I can imagine of BioWare decided to write a specific FemShep script it would be a disaster, just Jack.
Satchwar said:
That's where we differ. I tend to see masculinity as the examples Ami described for Monkey - hulking, brutish moronic characters possessing primal alpha male traits. Your manly men. Feminine characters fit your typical 'gatherer' archetype - physically weak, in need of protection, and an object of sexual possession for the males. Neither is necessarily bad in the right doses, but a bad writers will go off the deep end and pour huge doses of these traits into their characters, or when they try and combat these archetypes they go way too far in the opposite direction (eg: a 'strong female' becomes incredibly masculine).
I personally don't believe FemShep is excessively masculine or feminine. She's a female, who is strong. It's easy to hear her speak and watch her act and completely forget about her gender. That's why I like her.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I agree very much.Kinyou said:
Should have been the first post. Imho the most believable strong female character created so far.
Elena from the Uncharted series is second place.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Jerk said:
Ah, alrighty. I must be misinterpreting your posts, hahaha. Sorry!
fernoca said:
You have really missed the point. Yes there is no problem in women being confident and wearing clothes that mirror that whatever they may be. The problem is with such a male dominated industry(and society) such as gaming most of these decisions about female characters are made purely for titillation.
The 'sexual' moans in the Tomb Raider demo I put down to sexually frustrated nerds.
No one is wishing away flavor. I'm just tired of seeing a game that the devs want you to take seriously, yet they will have a female fighter in high heels, tight clothes, a short skirt and have her move on the battle field like she's working a runway. Is it hard to make a good looking woman that doesn't flirt all the time and wears practical battle clothes? By practical I mean this:BigJiantRobut said:
Notice how she wears practical clothes for battle just like the men in the game and her non battle army gear that she had in gears 1 and 2 looks like something a woman would really be issued if she was in an army? Unlike Lightning who looks like she's wearing designer clothes.
I prefer characters that are believably sexual, if you know what I mean, not ones that have the gigantic arse and hips and the rack that could smother a heard of wildebeest. And the over-exaggerated hip-swaying, moving what seems like three feet to either side. Would not like to speed walk on either side of someone like that. She'd knock you out into the road for frig's sake. That is my sharp knees of game characters!
only if ever being in a position of requiring help is a female only trait. Then all POW's are now bitches. her being captured by bandits did not make me look less at her. Bonnie is a farmer, the bandits are killers. It makes sense that to get to John they would get at someone who even though they could use a gun aren't as apathetic to shooting someone dead like John. She wasn't weak but in the context of the story, humane.Sunflower said:It's just too easy to throw people a bone instead of focus on someone's character. Bonnie McFarlane in Red Dead Redemption is a great exception to the standard female character, but still is "in need of a man"...or is she? She's capable, but in the beginning of the story, you're lead to believe she needs one. Hell, you even do a mission that involves rescuing her. Does that invalidate her? It's such a tough call. The more I break people down the more I realize everyone is sexualized in one way or another.
I lose! Wah
since I am currently following fashion week I would kindly ask to you slow your roll. Designers make clothes for many type of aesthetics and designers come in all backgrounds, genders, and ethnicity. Some are more commercial and some are more artistic. Who is to say that Anya isn't wearing the latest Jil Sander and Lightning stole her wardrobe from Phillip Lim? Also the "runway" sway is so underused on runways that I think it lost its meaning as girls (and men) now walk like robots. Not including the Gucci show a few days ago, those dresses had to show movement.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I would like to say I enjoy the Anya concept design posted above. A little too Suzy Homemaker, but it's utilitarian, and that counts.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Desi said:
Great point. Re-validated!
CoffeeExpress
Member
the 10 year silent hill 2 thread reminded me of her. Sure she is sexualized but only for the purpose of the story.. you could say she is strong but being part of James's psyche does she really count?
Elena is the only female character I can think of this gen that is neither damsel in distress or 'I CAN HANG WIT DA BOYS TOO'
The Lt in Space Marine has about a peanut of a personality
Also, not to bash someone's opinions, but TRIP? Really?! The girl who enslaves a stranger she nearly got killed to do her bidding under threat of death? The one who can't even make it home on her own?
I would argue that Trip is one of the most unlikable characters ever made.
The Lt in Space Marine has about a peanut of a personality
Also, not to bash someone's opinions, but TRIP? Really?! The girl who enslaves a stranger she nearly got killed to do her bidding under threat of death? The one who can't even make it home on her own?
I would argue that Trip is one of the most unlikable characters ever made.
SilverLunar
Member
<<<
I make you do all the work even though I have uber pokemans and can just knock everything out with my Garchomp.
I make you do all the work even though I have uber pokemans and can just knock everything out with my Garchomp.
Then, I'm not missing the point.domlolz said:
I posted my choices, yet were considered "too sexualized".
To me, "sexualized" would be seeing the characters all over the place wearing bikinis or looking at the camera while wearing just a towel. Basically; they using that kind of image to sell the game, more than anything.
So far, I haven't seen Valve doing that with Chell, Sony doing that with Elena, Square doing that with the new Lara or Nintendo doing it with Zelda; yet somehow all are sexualized according to this thread based on a few personal reasons.
Is like some here have never heard women in pain, or had female friends that wear tank tops while outside.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Kalnos said:You want characters with more armor do ya.
Highly sexualized. Not that that's a bad thing.
And in the game her animations look real and practical. She doesn't strut around, crossing up her legs and swaying her hips, while getting shot at. She doesn't do some stupid look cartwheel are something that the devs consider feminine when doing something acrobatic. She's strong just like the men are and in hand to hand situations in gears her animations are just as physical. When she gores someone with the retro lancer she picks them up and lets them slide down the blade of the gun just like the men do. Her character also talks shit when you get a kill.Sunflower said:
The only difference is that between Anya and most of the other Gears characters is that she's a woman. That's it. She isn't made to look weaker than the male characters or like she's concerned with how good she looks moving around during the battle.
SolidSnakex
Member
Amir0x said:man i want to know who thought she came across as invincible in the previous games?
Classic Tomb Raider is all about getting tore apart by dinosaurs, bears, tigers. It's all about falling down pits and hearing a piercing scream before you listen to every bone in her body snap. It's all about getting sliced up by blade and spike traps, making a desperate jump only to miss a ledge by mere inches and cracking your head on a boulder on the fall down.
How did she come across as invincible?
I think that they're referring to situations in the story. Something to suggest that she screwed up and not the player. She's generally really good at getting out of any situation without being injured.
Devolution
Member
fernoca said:Then, I'm not missing the point.
I posted my choices, yet were considered "too sexualized".
To me sexualized, would be seeing the characters all over the place wearing bikinis or looking at the camera while wearing just a towel. Basically; they using that kind of image to sell the game, more than anything.
So far, I haven't seen Valve doing that with Chell, Sony doing that with Elena, Square doing that with the new Lara or Nintendo doing it with Zelda; yet somehow all are sexualized according to this thread based on a few personal reasons.
Is like some here have never heard women in pain, or had female friends that wear tank tops while outside.
I think the problem is saturation for the most part. That's why characters who are sexualized but still have personalities get swept up in the "this character is too sexualized" talk, because of all the ones who literally are nothing but walking tits and ass. I don't think all characters need to be tomboyish like me, that doesn't appeal to everyone. But there is quite a saturation of military/rogue-ish women who are designed in a manner so their tits, mid-drift and or ass is out. And when this image is constantly replicated, even in well rounded characters, it's hard to draw the line.
Frankly I think people are giving some well reasoned arguments in here but we don't have to necessarily clothe women up to extreme degrees to offset the bikini clad ones. I think if anything, the focus should be on the writing. She gets a lot of flack but I fucking loved Morrigan from Dragon Age. Such a sarcastic asshole.