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Summer Anime 2017 |OT| More streaming services than shows to watch
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hosannainexcelsis
Member
Fafner Exodus 17
Just going to play my heartstrings like a fiddle, are you, Fafner?
Just going to play my heartstrings like a fiddle, are you, Fafner?
KirbYuuYuu
Member
KiraKira Precure A la mode 23
So finally my blatant spoiling of who the next Cure end comes to a close with Cure Parphat. One who was made by "killing" off Julio for his sister, Ciel.
So post Julio's defeat a few episodes back, we gained Ciel and Bibury, also known as evil Doremi Harukaze. There was a lull. And that lull only really shows how much Julio added. He was neat to see his interactions with others, and Yukari making him a boy toy for an episode because she's smart. There was coverage for everyone, but then an issue started rearing its head again. Something Narag pointed out earlier in the shows run.
For like six episodes straight, every already established character not named Ichika took a backrow seat. Which feels bad when you consider... we now added a SIXTH Cure, and you're expecting to balance this shit how? I mean nevermind we're about to enter the third cour of this season, which is usually the worst time for Precure seasons as is. I mean I'm already starting to believe we might bring back leader exclusive power up at the end (ugh). But seriously, we really didn't need to add a 6th person. It would be one thing if this was a sequel to KiraKira (which sequels have been dead after GoGo).
In any case, Bibs is gone for the most part, so now we must make way for our next bad guy
So finally my blatant spoiling of who the next Cure end comes to a close with Cure Parphat. One who was made by "killing" off Julio for his sister, Ciel.
I don't think he's dead.
The final scene was very odd considering where his star bits went, and the fact that he had a silhouette in a completely different place
The final scene was very odd considering where his star bits went, and the fact that he had a silhouette in a completely different place
So post Julio's defeat a few episodes back, we gained Ciel and Bibury, also known as evil Doremi Harukaze. There was a lull. And that lull only really shows how much Julio added. He was neat to see his interactions with others, and Yukari making him a boy toy for an episode because she's smart. There was coverage for everyone, but then an issue started rearing its head again. Something Narag pointed out earlier in the shows run.
For like six episodes straight, every already established character not named Ichika took a backrow seat. Which feels bad when you consider... we now added a SIXTH Cure, and you're expecting to balance this shit how? I mean nevermind we're about to enter the third cour of this season, which is usually the worst time for Precure seasons as is. I mean I'm already starting to believe we might bring back leader exclusive power up at the end (ugh). But seriously, we really didn't need to add a 6th person. It would be one thing if this was a sequel to KiraKira (which sequels have been dead after GoGo).
In any case, Bibs is gone for the most part, so now we must make way for our next bad guy
ThatChairMan
Member
Best girl. Best pilot. The best.
Jex
Member
- Everyone has different levels of tolerance for this kind of material, in the case of Made in the Abyss I felt like it was even more objectionable than normal as it concerned the portrayal of underage characters.
- Am I entirely consistent in the how I approach this topic? Not at all, but that's just a natural result of having conflicting ideas about representation in different kinds of shows. I can't claim to be applying a rule consistently across everything I watch in my life. However, this is a topic I have raised several times before.
- It's been a little why since I wrote in depth about Kizumonogatari and if I was to do a comprehensive review of the trilogy of films it's certainly a topic I'd touch upon. However, there's a few differences between Kizumonogatari and other shows airing this season. Firstly, most people who discuss Kizumonogatari have mentioned the highly sexualised content it contains. Secondly, Kizumonogatari isn't the kind of thing you're going to casually stumble upon on - it's something you'd have to seek out, which implies a certain familiarity with the work or franchise. Anyone with that familiarity will know all about the fanservice that is rife in the franchise, and which I have complained about in the past.
- I don't feel like it's my job to prescribe to others how they should post, I hope that I made that clear in my original comment.
- What is and isn't wholesome is up to each individual viewer, but I think its only fair that they be warned about what kind of material a particular work contains.
Jex
Member
I'm a little surprised to see these kinds of comments, but I suppose I shouldn't be. We all gave different lenses through which we view the world and these clearly colour our interpretations. To me, these comments feel optimistic and maybe even naive (no offence intended, I'd rather live in a less unpleasant world, but here we are).
My initial reaction to the show was not just tied to this scene (although it's certainly the worst offender) but also the repeated mention of Reg's penis. Why does the story even contain these elements or moments? Are they plot relevant? Can't Riko be punished in one of a million ways that don't involve nudity? I felt like (and this is with no prior knowledge of the source material) that the only reason for the content to exist in the way that it was to please the particular proclivities of the original creator.
Just, for a moment, consider how a live-action version of this same scenario would be received. It's wouldn't go down well, right? If that's the case, then why are we hand-waving it away in the anime? I'm sure Turin will argue that the character designs are of such a simple nature that they couldn't possibly be anyone's fetish material but again I'm going to have to disagree and say that at the very least there are plenty of people who clearly find them attractive. I don't really want to go much further down this line of the argument because it's quite subjective, but I think it's fair to say that different people are 'into' different kinds of character design.
Secondly, I don't think we can cleanly divorce anime (and manga) from their original creators and the industry as whole. There are numerous artists, animators and directors who are clearly into material that depicts underage characters. It's a seam that has run throughout these fields for sometime. Knowing this to be the case, I can't help but be extremely sceptical whenever such material appears in an anime. I also felt the need to pull all the way back to the source material to check how it portrayed there (obviously the manga and the anime can be separated to a certain degree, but I think its telling what the director of the series chooses to include in their adaptation). Unsurprisingly, the scene is even worse in the original manga, so I guess I should be glad that they toned it down somewhat. Unfortunately, it seems that from both the actual content in the manga, and the manga author's Pixiv page, that he is very much into depictions of underage characters. Now, it may be possible to separate his tastes from the work he created, and the anime it inspired, but its very hard for me to do that when we have scenes featuring naked underage characters.
Also, the scene was between 3 and 4 seconds long.
I guess this really boils down to how sceptical you are about the media you consume and most of the time I don't see any reason to give an anime the benefit of the doubt.
Theonik
Member
Never.
Princess Principal ep 2
Ugh that fancy horrible CGI camera angles, so fucking janky and fake as shit. Despite the cool ass spy stuff and the tense situation the only beef I had is how they handle explaining the spy mission and objective, it took me a good while to take in what is Ange's mission is about.
Ugh that fancy horrible CGI camera angles, so fucking janky and fake as shit. Despite the cool ass spy stuff and the tense situation the only beef I had is how they handle explaining the spy mission and objective, it took me a good while to take in what is Ange's mission is about.
Turin Turambar
Member
I don't know what to say when taking offense to the questionable treatment of children's equivalent to dragging a show through the mud. Come on now. I don't care if people like the show or not, I do not, however, think it such a monumental work of art that all discussion of its more problematic aspects should be muted so that the show can be pushed to as many possible viewers as possible. At that point you've passed being a fan to being an unpaid shill.
And what's with the need to try and play fifth dimensional chess with hooking viewers? You don't think you're going to turn off just as many, probably more really, potential anime viewers by failing to mention the negative aspects of a show upfront so they can make an informed decision about something they watch for the first time as opposed to hoping the quality of the work will shine through all the more generally culturally uncool shit in anime the first time they see it? You're playing yourself at that point.
And what's with the need to try and play fifth dimensional chess with hooking viewers? You don't think you're going to turn off just as many, probably more really, potential anime viewers by failing to mention the negative aspects of a show upfront so they can make an informed decision about something they watch for the first time as opposed to hoping the quality of the work will shine through all the more generally culturally uncool shit in anime the first time they see it? You're playing yourself at that point.
No thanks. I'm still trying to finish the books unsullied. Plus all the awful changes pissed me off so I don't think I'll go back and finish the show.
Texhnolyze: 20-22, end
This is literally the most depressing story I have ever experienced in my life.
Hilariously, my brother compared it to The Story of the Ugly Barnacle from Spongebob ("And everyone dies, THE END!"), which I guess is the only sense of levity I am feeling right now.
Man, what a bummer.
This is literally the most depressing story I have ever experienced in my life.
Hilariously, my brother compared it to The Story of the Ugly Barnacle from Spongebob ("And everyone dies, THE END!"), which I guess is the only sense of levity I am feeling right now.
Man, what a bummer.
MikeHattsu
Member
I guess it made it slightly less awful? Still not really fixed though...
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Geimu of Tsronesu is anime though.
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
I'm with you two. I find it bewildering that anyone well versed in the anime industry would look at these two episodes and regard them as completely innocent.
All the damn penis talk, specific mention and display of a strange punishment method as well as downright anal-probing has got to be eyebrow raising even if you knew nothing about this industry.
Haha, I think it's actually worse than that, the less knowledgeable you are the more likely one's to be turned off by it and the evidence is anime's current market share. The much more common reaction to this side of anime is disgust, it has to be otherwise anime would be a much larger market than it is. And I think at some point you have to be cognizant of the fact that we like a very niche medium that most people seem to be predisposed to not like and need to keep some of those factors in mind when trying to bring new people into our hobby.
Back to Made in Abyss, if the person was turned off by a complaint of what happened in a pair of episodes they'd likely'd be turned off by seeing it in person too. And at some point your credibility does come into play here, you give someone honest recommendations with any caveats upfront and they have no reason to not trust you, even if they try it and find it's too much for them, but if you're less than forthcoming with your recommendations and expose them to some material they don't enjoy or that they find outright distasteful they're not as likely value your opinion in the future.
Theonik
Member
ゲーム・オブ・スローンズはアニメじゃない
But I heard GoT is shitty.
TestMonkey
Member
Just got to a part when someone is trying to explain marriage to a young female protagonist. Usagi Drop made this weird.
Nope. It will always be ASoIaF not the GoT. Get back to writing Martin, you fat bastard.
Nope. It will always be ASoIaF not the GoT. Get back to writing Martin, you fat bastard.
veloxStrix
Banned
I completely agree with the second point you make. Anime shouldn't be divorced from its industry as any medium that seeks to make a profit. There are schools of thought which argue that each work should be evaluated within itself but I think that separating any creation from the ideals of its author and their stratum is impossible.
That said, I can't really agree with much else.
This is a flawed argument. Not in that it is wrong, but that the issue with a live-action scene would be that it would have real, human actors or be attempting to portray a real human actor through near-reality CG. Despite the goal of creating the illusion of reality, the audience is always aware of the lack of such even moreso in animation because it is not reality.
On that note, child nudity and even sexualization has been in numerous films. Mostly foreign and independent as most film studios don't even want to try and touch on the subject. Not to mention classical art. Beau Pere is a far more disturbing, positive portrayal of paedophilia than almost any anime I have seen but it still has something to say .
I've written about my views on the naked-hanging scene and I think there is an argument based around author intent that I can't dispute partially due to not having read the source and partially due to the difficulty of disputing something that only the author can know. I am giving this a pass because of what I have seen from the show so far rather than any ignorance of the industries proclivities. The themes and style of the story, as of now, give me the idea that deriving meaning from this scene is possible despite the industry involved.
On the other hand, I don't know at all why children talking about each other's body parts would be something outlandish at all. Children are innocent and curious especially about each other's bodies. I think the issue here is that portraying children is hard because we are supposed to empathize with our protagonist, but we see things through the lense of an adult. As a child, I distinctly remember peeking in on my friend changing not because of some lust but out of sheer curiosity. As an adult, just writing that sentence involves a certain reluctance because of a fear of how people will perceive me simply mentioning the topic. In reality, a child running around naked would be met with laughs and bemused admonishment rather than people dagger-eyed checking to make sure none of the nearby people were attempting to sexualize them. As fiction is a manipulation of reality, I think the idea of children innocently discussing Reg's penis is fairly innocuous.
Turin Turambar
Member
Jexhius said:
That's an interesting point of view. I also agree that we shouldn't hand-wave things just because "it's anime".
But it's a flawed perspective to compare it with live-action, as live-action have also its own set of inherent limitations, like the fact the fictional characters has to be portrayed by real people. Most of the time it isn't a problem, but when we enter in the specific set of stories that feature both minors and mature content there are both legal and ethical issues.
It's better to compare the scenario with an old, universal, respected medium for fiction: the novel.
That said, there are some live-action films where minors joked about masturbating (communal masturbating, even), and it was ok... It even has awards so it seems it's also ok for other people...
SliceSabre
Banned
Kira Precure 23
Julio you could have been cool. Oh well RIP you will not be missed.
Kakegurui 03
I hope not every gamble is going to follow the same formula. While the MC acting nutty and rubbing herself raw as the prospect of gambling is a treat, it'll start to get boring if they all play out the same way regardless if she's the winner or not. Can we learn a bit more about to school and other students?
Knight's & Magic 03
Normally I hate perfect MCs, but I feel like they have done enough to justify his skill and knowledge at dealing with these mechs and why he is so good at what he does.
Princess Principal 02
Subterfuge the episode and I loved everything about it. I don't mind that the hitch of the episode, the note passed to the princess, wasn't entirely obvious to the audience since I tend to like this kind of stuff.
Tenshi no 3P! 02
The current discussion about Made In Abyss would make you think that show treats the little girl MC like this show treats its little girls.
Symphogear AXZ 03
Tiki is an autoscorer!!! The second best class of villains of the series returns! Funny to see the girls already pull off a power jump already and it is only the 3 episode.
Julio you could have been cool. Oh well RIP you will not be missed.
Kakegurui 03
I hope not every gamble is going to follow the same formula. While the MC acting nutty and rubbing herself raw as the prospect of gambling is a treat, it'll start to get boring if they all play out the same way regardless if she's the winner or not. Can we learn a bit more about to school and other students?
Knight's & Magic 03
Normally I hate perfect MCs, but I feel like they have done enough to justify his skill and knowledge at dealing with these mechs and why he is so good at what he does.
Princess Principal 02
Subterfuge the episode and I loved everything about it. I don't mind that the hitch of the episode, the note passed to the princess, wasn't entirely obvious to the audience since I tend to like this kind of stuff.
Tenshi no 3P! 02
The current discussion about Made In Abyss would make you think that show treats the little girl MC like this show treats its little girls.
Symphogear AXZ 03
Tiki is an autoscorer!!! The second best class of villains of the series returns! Funny to see the girls already pull off a power jump already and it is only the 3 episode.
Love and Lies 1-3 - Another anime/manga about government arranged marriages. I guess that's one way for Japan to solve its population issues. I guess at some point the merry threesome will come to arrangements so the three can stay together secretly or something (though probably beyond the scope of this anime adaptation). HanaKana is nice as always.
Just to add a bit, as it's already mentioned on this page, there's also the really popular example of A Song of Ice and Fire. A lot of the main characters in the books are actually really young, much younger than their counterparts on the show. I'd argue that a 1:1 adaptation of the books would have certainly been very controversial, but that's precisely the reason such a thing has zero chance of ever happening. Likewise, if by any chance Made In Abyss got a live action adaptation, they'd either remove questionable stuff entirely or they'd make the appropriate changes.
Also, continuing the comparison between the two shows, I'd say that the main difference is that Made In Abyss seems "innocent" so far, and that kind of scenes stick like a sore thumb. The author has built the world mainly from its exploration aspect, I don't think they've really justified the whole deal with the punishment, and even if it has been mentioned before, it's something quite dark that was played for laughs. No wonder some people seem to have classified it as "titillation", though I believe that this wasn't the author's intention. I mean, despite the show's looks, it's a grim show, everything implies that the abyss goes further down... If someone intends to recommend the show to people with zero knowledge, the warning wouldn't be specifically about the aforementioned scenes, but the nature of the show.
Cornbread78
Member
Fairy Tail ep.116
OK Gray, that was a pretty awesome battle with Ultear for most of the episode with a good mix in of backstory on his mentor and early master. Good stuff!
nintendoman58
Member
The fuck subs are you watching? Lol.
Cornbread78
Member
I couldn't remember how to spell it off the top of my head, so I spelled it how is sounded, lol. (I switched to the dubbed version several arcs ago)
Ultear... close enough, lol
I really want to find a gif of his ice tower move
to finish things off, that was pretty badass, even though it was kind of a cheap shot when she was distracted, lol...
SO true, lol...
Cornbread78
Member
ya know, I usually hate 90% or the crap my daughter's listen to on the top 40 stations, but I actually like my ginga brotha. Dude is talented af...
______________________________________________________________
In other news, this post in Imgur is mint. I love gen pops reaction to all things "anime"
http://imgur.com/gallery/Zv9tvS0
nintendoman58
Member
They both have dragons at least.
But do both have Dragon Maids?
Chivalry of a Failed Knight is 50% off for today only.
Dedication Through Light
Member
GoT has more video game references though
https://twitter.com/Neil_Druckmann/status/887319482212900865
https://twitter.com/Neil_Druckmann/status/887319482212900865
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
Yeah but Cersei is a trash-tier Imouto.
Cornbread78
Member
Isn't GoT just live-action westernized anime anyway?
Joe Molotov
Member
That's because Arya is best girl.
Theonik
Member
Oreimo did too.
Cornbread78
Member
Umm, I don't even watch GoT and I know that they have multiple sibling pairs that have fu(ked raw as hell in the show.....
Cornbread78
Member
by "shadow" banned you mean secret decisions made by the shadow council?
See, this didn't even register for me. Reg is a robot/relic, it was established that the adults would certainly dissect him entirely. The kids having scientific (or even basic) curiosity to his abilities and anatomy was not strange or eyebrow raising. Anal probing is mentioned is the same breath as literal electrocution and attempted mutilation of the same character -- hardly offbeat.
Call me naive or whatever, I think you guys are perhaps bitter about the state of the industry! Me and my fiancee will both drop anything at the slightest hint of loli pandering and nothing shown has triggered that yet. Hopefully they adapt the shit out of the troublesome manga moments (as Jexhius did, I decided to look at the first two chapters of the manga and the punishment scene is definitely more par for course there and would have ended with a drop) that people have mentioned.
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