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Touhou Community Thread | Highly Responsive to Posts

upandaway

Member
Evilisk's posts made me go back to TH3 for a bit, for some reason I was doing better than I thought I would but I'm still sort of out of it. It has the best endings for sure.
After trying to make a shmup by myself it's much easier to notice how much work the games have put in them.

And yeah about Reimu's homing shot, I'm more or less done using it. I was relying on it a ton but at some point I realized, even if I just whiff my shots completely as I try to dodge, overall I'll still deal more dps without much effort to staying in the center.
 

Evilisk

Member
Evilisk's posts made me go back to TH3 for a bit, for some reason I was doing better than I thought I would but I'm still sort of out of it. It has the best endings for sure.
After trying to make a shmup by myself it's much easier to notice how much work the games have put in them.

And yeah about Reimu's homing shot, I'm more or less done using it. I was relying on it a ton but at some point I realized, even if I just whiff my shots completely as I try to dodge, overall I'll still deal more dps without much effort to staying in the center.

You're working on a shmup? That's pretty cool. Are you using Danmakufu or just making it from scratch/with another program?


Anyway, speaking of homing shots, I decided I'm not gonna go back to it for 6, and I'm just gonna go with completing both of Marisa's shots instead. The main reasons are

1) I'm tired of having to adjust speeds between Reimu/Marisa

2) I tend to do worse with the Homing Shot. The easy stage bits are an okay advantage but I tend to go on auto pilot because of it, and then end up doing worse on the bosses

3) Her homing bomb doesn't help me. Since my strategy has been to score as much as possible in the early stages (to get more lives for the later stages), Marisa's a more favorable option. Reimu's B bomb is too fast (and has Undyne to deal with), and Reimu's A bomb misses enemies if I hang out at the POC line (and that means less point items and score).

So yeah, I'm just gonna settle on Marisa's two shots.

I'm getting pretty close now to 1cc'ing EoSD now (also the game stopped crashing, which is good). I've about memorized Stage 4 and Stage 6. Remilia's still a long ways off, but I can deal with her non-spellcards consistently, and think I might be able to tank her spellcards with lives/bombs. Sakuya's honestly the real problem for me at this point. There doesn't seem to be any trick (as far as I can tell) other than "dodge good" and I'm pretty inconsistent at that. Also I keep getting backstabbed by the green knives.

That might take a while.

Besides that, I think I'll have my EoSD post done up next time I post.
 

ibyea

Banned
In my view homing shots are like training wheels. It certainly made getting into the game easier for me, and allowed me to beat the game. But as I developed my skills I realized it does so little damage that doing a 1cc run with it becomes actually harder. Reimu's homing shots are just terrible.
 

Evilisk

Member
I was just doing a run. And I died at Remilia's very last spellcard with one last sliver of health to go

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 

Evilisk

Member
Finally did it (thank you Master Spark,)

CCqO3P7.png


While I would say I feel a bit ashamed about bombing most of Sakuya and Remilia's spellcards, that would be a complete lie :p ( they've given me more than enough grief in the past week or so, especially Sakuya's dumb backstabbing knives)

Besides, I still have to do it again with one more shottype before I can move on :/ I'm still okay with this clear though. And now I've gotten one post-PC98 Normal 1cc beneath my belt so that's boosted my confidence a bunch too.

I might focus on the second 1cc tonight, so then I can finish my write up and finally move on to PCB.


I've already seen this before, but it's never not funny (hypocrisy, ho!)
 

upandaway

Member
You're working on a shmup? That's pretty cool. Are you using Danmakufu or just making it from scratch/with another program?
Using unity, but I found that I don't really like designing games as much as I like programming them (and shmups are much heavier on the design parts)

There's some things I never noticed before about touhou's scripting, like the way the background moves during certain points or the different spawning animations of bullets, it made me realize why it feels so good to play them
 

Evilisk

Member
Good job on the 1CC! Any tips? I'm kinda stuck on Patchy right now, using ReimuB. :(

I guess don't use ReimuB? lol

Seriously though, if Selene is destroying you, you can always switch shots. The other shots don't have to deal with Selene and have longer active bomb times (which is helpful if you want to bypass spellcards with a single bomb).

Here are other pieces of advice


Maximize your score where you can. Like, don't go out of your way to employ scoring strategies. But don't just kill a boss with an empty screen, because then you're missing out on a lot of score (and since score = more resources, it's good to have a higher one)

Memorize the stage portions. I don't think I died once during a stage portion in my 1cc run, and not losing resources to stage portions means more resources for the boss battles.

Bomb wisely. Using up all your bombs before dying is common sense, but don't be panic bombing blindly. The one rule I came up with is to think one or two phases ahead. If I'm more uncomfortable with dealing with the next phase/spellcard than the current one, I'd decide to hold on to the bomb for that instead. For my 1cc run, while there were parts where I wish I had bombed, there were also parts of my run where it was absolutely the right thing to do. The point is, unless you're on Remilia already, spitting out bombs just so that you can die empty-handed of bombs is not smart.

I think the last thing I'll say is that you CAN bomb all the way through Sakuya and Remilia (up until Red Magic/Scarlet Gensokyo), but you do have to learn how to fight Patchouli at least. You don't have to know her 100% and you can bomb against her if it's really necessary. But unless Patchouli is just a weirdly difficult fight and you have way less trouble against Sakuya and Remilia, I do recommend figuring out how to dodge her spellcards and not just bombing through everything.

Using unity, but I found that I don't really like designing games as much as I like programming them (and shmups are much heavier on the design parts)

There's some things I never noticed before about touhou's scripting, like the way the background moves during certain points or the different spawning animations of bullets, it made me realize why it feels so good to play them

That's pretty neat

I personally tried to use Danmakufu at one point but programming just completely goes over my head lol
 

Evilisk

Member
I initially had an even LONGER write up in mind. But since I'm starting to confuse points (and also since it took so long getting around to this write up at all) my thoughts on this are a bit confusing/jumbled.


Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil

For lack of a better word (even from ZUN himself), EoSD is a game that, is very "nostalgic"

From the rustic menu design and random bullet patterns, to the music and the basic 3D backgrounds, the game evokes a strong sense of nostalgia. While I did say that Mystic Square is fairly close to being a modern Touhou game, I don't actually feel like EoSD is a modern game just talking in terms of gameplay. It's considered to be a modern game and does introduce a few modern mechanics/systems like a proper practice mode, replays and spellcard names. ZUN has also learnt his lesson and, with the exception of Remilia's "red bullets on a red background" shtick, everthing is a lot clearer.Even the bullet count (for lower difficulties) is up to modern standards earlier than in previous games (where Mystic Square only reached those levels at Stage 5 and up).

At the same time, the game still has certain PC98 quirks (like lots of streamable patterns and power items still spawning at full power), it still lacks a few modern mainstays (like visible hitbox, shots/bombs changing when focused) and the introduced mechanics aren't as refined (like practice mode giving the default no. of lives and not allowing replays, and spellcard history not being introduced yet). EoSD may be the accumulation of all ZUN learned in the PC98 era, but I feel it's only nostalgic for it. It's not even a bridging game between the PC98 era and the modern Touhou era, I would argue that PCB is the one to fit that role, (but we can go over that in the next write up). In terms of gameplay, it is my honest opinion that it's just not there yet (but that's just my opinion and I'm sure many others will probably disagree)

With all that said, I do think just about everything else associated with the series is definitely up to modern sensibilities at this point. The cutesy artstyle of PC98 has been dropped for crude looking, but well designed characters (and it's something the series is known for). Real world inspirations/references are used more liberally/prominently than in previous games and only continue to be used in future games. And while the games did have solid music up to that point, it's pretty telling that UN Owen was her and Septette still remain as some of the most popular/recognizable themes in the series.

The characters are probably among the best designed in the series (even if the art isn't the best). Whether it was ZUN finally having a new format to play with after the PC98 games, or the characters just being a perfect storm of design elements and themes, there's just something about the SDM faction that makes it stand out even from the addition of newer characters. And even Cirno and Reimu and Marisa look relatively good (with only Rumia being particularly bland). And even if the music isn't best in the series, that's hardly a slight considering the sheer quality of this series' music. Locked Girl, Septette and Meiling's themes are still stellar picks compared to later games.

Even if (I personally think) it's a bit more of a nostalgic game and more fits the role of restating everything that ZUN learned in the PC98 games, I do think that the status of landmark that the game has achived in the context of the series is pretty well deserved. Despite basically describing it as the very last PC98 style game I still greatly enjoyed playing through this game than every other PC98 games in the series.

Despite my "complaining" I still think this is a really good game. I just think, if you're looking for a game that's truly emblematic of what the series is about, this isn't it (if anything it'd be emblematic of the PC98 games, basically taking the best of what that era had to offer). That said, if you have an interest in this series at all, you probably owe it to yourself to play this. It's a solid and fairly well paced game that does a good job of setting out what expectations to have for the series.
 

ibyea

Banned
Yeah I pretty much agree with you. It's not exactly high up in my list and it's quiet unrefined, but there is enough refinement that there is some modern feel to it, and it's a very fun game.

And maybe it's just me but I think this is when the series starts having some really cool attacks.
 

demidar

Member
The EoSD cast is still one of the most popular ensembles, I think.

Though that could just be because they were around the longest for the Windows era.
 

Evilisk

Member
Yeah I pretty much agree with you. It's not exactly high up in my list and it's quiet unrefined, but there is enough refinement that there is some modern feel to it, and it's a very fun game.

And maybe it's just me but I think this is when the series starts having some really cool attacks.

I think I agree. LLS and MS did have a few cool attacks, but I'm hard pressed to say that they're more memorable than anything in EoSD (it doesn't help that the cool ones like Devil's Recitation and Master Spark have been poached for later games too)

That said, I really want to see ZUN re-do Elly's shtick in a modern game. I really liked the background detaching itself to attack you as well as the invincibility w/scythe gimmick.

The EoSD cast is still one of the most popular ensembles, I think.

Though that could just be because they were around the longest for the Windows era.

Yeah the EoSD cast, especially the SDM, are super popular.

I think only Mountain of Faith and Perfect Cherry Blossom really come close.

I would personally say it's more impressive in Mountain of Faith's case because unlike EoSD, you don't have 6 of the 9 introduced characters being part of the same faction.
 

microfolk

Member
EoSD has by far the most popular cast, alongside with PCB and IN. The new era cast is still far behind those characters, for better or for worse.

Good writeup Evilisk, even though I don't agree with some of your assertions like the game being full of streaming patterns (from memory there are almost as much in PCB and they are far from the streaming bonanza that is SA for example), and even the power item at max power thing is not really unheard in the most recent titles (UFO, TD, LoLK...)
But yeah EoSD is by far the most "different" game of the windows titles from a gameplay perspective, especially since it has a far higher degree of randomness which I really really appreciate. :p
 

Evilisk

Member
EoSD has by far the most popular cast, alongside with PCB and IN. The new era cast is still far behind those characters, for better or for worse.

Good writeup Evilisk, even though I don't agree with some of your assertions like the game being full of streaming patterns (from memory there are almost as much in PCB and they are far from the streaming bonanza that is SA for example), and even the power item at max power thing is not really unheard in the most recent titles (UFO, TD, LoLK...)
But yeah EoSD is by far the most "different" game of the windows titles from a gameplay perspective, especially since it has a far higher degree of randomness which I really really appreciate. :p

I'm not that familiar with SA so I wasn't aware it was so stream heavy. With PCB though, yeah I know. I was going to go into it along with my point of it being a sort of "bridging/transitional game" between the PC98+EoSD shooters and the post-PCB shooters (along with how there's callbacks like Chen's nonspell to Cirno's nonspell in EoSD, or how the "incredible bullets that spawn from nowhere" from the PC98 games return for the Extra/Phantasm). I'll save the details for when I do the write up though.

About the power items, I completely forgot. UFO is not my favorite and besides LoLK I've only been playing the first 10 games offhandedly for the past few months. I'm gonna have to edit that in when I get home.

And Is IN really that popular? I've noticed Mokou is really popular, Mystia and Wriggle get to leech off Rumia and Cirno's EoSD popularity because of the Team 9 grouping and Reisen keeps getting playable appearances. But I find it hard to find decent art and remixes of the Eientei characters (especially for Tewi and Eirin, who I like out of that group) which is why I've assumed it's not particularly popular (compared to PCB and EoSD)

New Music CD announced by ZUN releasing this Reitaisai.

31cc340e.png


燕石博物誌~Dr Lantency's Freak Report

http://kourindou.exblog.jp/24299864/

Can't wait! Although ZUN's Art is getting sloppy. Which is a shame considering some of LoLK's portraits were quite well drawn.

After reading through the song list, I'm actually kinda excited

September Pumpkin, Eternal Transient Reign, the Frozen Eternal Capital, Junko's themes and the Shining Needle Castle theme are favorites of mine. It'd be perfect if it had Pristine Beat and Doremy's boss theme though
 

microfolk

Member
And Is IN really that popular? I've noticed Mokou is really popular, Mystia and Wriggle get to leech off Rumia and Cirno's EoSD popularity because of the Team 9 grouping and Reisen keeps getting playable appearances. But I find it hard to find decent art and remixes of the Eientei characters (especially for Tewi and Eirin, who I like out of that group) which is why I've assumed it's not particularly popular (compared to PCB and EoSD)

It might be my biased opinion of course, I thought IN characters fared way better than they did in the last popularity poll (Mokou 11th, Reisen 17th, the other ones between the 50th and the 80th position). Still IN was voted the second most popular media in the entire series (with 1200 less votes than EoSD, but 500 more than PCB) and in my experience there isn't a shortage of fan made material, which might be artworks, doujin or musical arranges. Mokou x Keine might be one of the most famous ship out there after the ones involving Reimu and Marisa, and thank god I am saying this from an absolutely sfw point of view, there are so much good doujins about those two~

Good job on the 1CC! Any tips? I'm kinda stuck on Patchy right now, using ReimuB. :(

If you want to map out the points in the game which give you the most problems I'd be glad to help. When I get home I'll write up something about the fifth stage since it can be completely trivialised if you stick to a slightly strict route, which is a good tradeoff in my opinion since otherwise that stage would be really really though.
 

shockdude

Member
Evilisk, congrats on the EoSD 1CC!

My arcade parts came in last week, and they're super nice.
The OBSF-30 buttons are not nearly as sensitive as the internet makes them out to be. I can easily rest my fingers on them.
The LS-40 is a great joystick. Small deadzone, small throw, extremely precise. Only downside is that it's too precise, and I need to spend more time with it so I can avoid accidental diagonals.
New Music CD announced by ZUN releasing this Reitaisai.

31cc340e.png


燕石博物誌~Dr Lantency's Freak Report

http://kourindou.exblog.jp/24299864/

Can't wait! Although ZUN's Art is getting sloppy. Which is a shame considering some of LoLK's portraits were quite well drawn.
Sweet. More music CDs are always good.
 

demidar

Member
It might be my biased opinion of course, I thought IN characters fared way better than they did in the last popularity poll (Mokou 11th, Reisen 17th, the other ones between the 50th and the 80th position). Still IN was voted the second most popular media in the entire series (with 1200 less votes than EoSD, but 500 more than PCB) and in my experience there isn't a shortage of fan made material, which might be artworks, doujin or musical arranges. Mokou x Keine might be one of the most famous ship out there after the ones involving Reimu and Marisa, and thank god I am saying this from an absolutely sfw point of view, there are so much good doujins about those two~

Vivit Gray keeping Mokou X Keine alive.

I'm also a big fan of the SA crew, particularly the Satori-Rin-Utsuho dynamic, with occasional special guest Yuugi.
 
Is it just me or do those two girls have alien fingers lol, look at those hands

If you want to map out the points in the game which give you the most problems I'd be glad to help. When I get home I'll write up something about the fifth stage since it can be completely trivialised if you stick to a slightly strict route, which is a good tradeoff in my opinion since otherwise that stage would be really really though.

Well, I'm playing on Normal with ReimuB so far. Typically I can get through the first three stages without losing a life, though I might panic bomb against Meiling every once in a while. It's Patchy that's walling me hard, once I reach her I might last a spell card or two and then go down in flames because I have a hard time finding safe spots in her bullet patterns and I forget to use bombs wisely. :( It's also hard to practice efficiently because practice mode starts me with only two lives when I'd usually have four by that point.

Actually, after doing a practice run just now I also have an issue with the little snowflake-looking enemies that come down on you during the second half of stage 4. I have a hard time dodging all their bullets and more often than not I end up bombing through it at some point. This video should give an idea of where in the stage I'm struggling (I just now realized I could look up a video walkthrough, how silly of me ><;;;).
 

Evilisk

Member
It might be my biased opinion of course, I thought IN characters fared way better than they did in the last popularity poll (Mokou 11th, Reisen 17th, the other ones between the 50th and the 80th position). Still IN was voted the second most popular media in the entire series (with 1200 less votes than EoSD, but 500 more than PCB) and in my experience there isn't a shortage of fan made material, which might be artworks, doujin or musical arranges. Mokou x Keine might be one of the most famous ship out there after the ones involving Reimu and Marisa, and thank god I am saying this from an absolutely sfw point of view, there are so much good doujins about those two~

Huh, somehow I didn't realize you could vote for media in that poll. I just noticed Forbidden Scrollery is the most popular manga by far. Also I forgot about the Keine X Mokou pairing
because I don't like Keine
.

Anyway I looked at the results, and parts of what I said are basically true.

IN
Mokou (11) and Reisen (17) are hella popular (like I thought). Then there's a gap between the rest of the cast; Kaguya (41), Keine (47), Mystia (51), Eirin (59) and then Tewi (67) and Wriggle (85).
So I was about right on my favorite Eientei characters not being popular :/ Was wrong about Wriggle. Mystia being much higher could be because of Mystia and Mokou pairings (which I notice a LOT of) rather than Team 9-Ball.

MoF
Sanae (12) is the most popular. Then there's Momiji (21), Nitori (33) and Suwako (34) and then Hina (49). Then there's a big drop with Kanako (71), Shizuha (78) and Minoriko (80) with poor Yumemi stuck in an Aki Sandwich (79).

MoF just gets beaten out (unless you counted Aya who is at 10, but I'm not counting her) and then there's a drop of 22 places in between Hina and Kanako. The most interesting part is Momiji (a flipping midboss) being at 21, and being at 21 for three polls running now (and before that she was at 22). Only the Aki's seem that low; Kanako is technically low but she almost appears wherever Sanae and Suwako do (in fanworks/fanart) that it's almost negligible

IN has Mokou (11) who beats out Sanae as the highest out of the two casts, but it also has a lower low in Wriggle (85). There are also big drops in between characters, with there being a 24 position drop between Reisen and Kaguya, and also an 18 position drop between Tewi and Wriggle.

That said, I guess IN is definitely much popular as a game even if the cast doesn't seem to be. Though I can't blame them, Youmu's shot is pretty sweet in that game. I'm actually a bit surprised at Suwako and Nitori's positions. I'm wondering if they were just bumped out by newer characters since Cirno is around the same position (and she is really popular too)

Actually, after doing a practice run just now I also have an issue with the little snowflake-looking enemies that come down on you during the second half of stage 4. I have a hard time dodging all their bullets and more often than not I end up bombing through it at some point. This video should give an idea of where in the stage I'm struggling (I just now realized I could look up a video walkthrough, how silly of me ><;;;).


That stage part is kinda easy when you have it memorized. Like you still have to be careful or you'll get clipped by the bullets, but it's a lot easier to manage if you know where they come from.

The enemies will spawn:
top left > top center > left side > right side > top right > top center > right wall > left wall

top means they come from the top of the screen
side refers to which side of the screen they'll come from
 
Site's working fine for me. Or are you talking about the lack of releases? If so then I have no idea. Maybe they ran out of Seija doujins and can't see the point in continuing.
 

microfolk

Member
The bun! With an even bigger gun!!!

I'm really happy about Reisen having so much space in the Touhou canon as of late, but I'd be even happier if Tasofro would tell us that the PC version will get the update too.
 
I hate reisen so much

I hate fighting reisen in pofv

I hate fighting reisen in soku

I just know I'm gonna hate reisen in ulil

fuck reisen


can't wait to play her woohoo
 
Just so I don't leave this thread without contribution, a new PV has been released for an upcoming Touhou Fantasy Kaleidoscope short. It's going to adapt the events of Hisoutensoku, specifically Cirno's story. Looks like good fun if it's anything like the previous ones.
 

Evilisk

Member
Posting since I started PCB/IaMP now (after getting sidetracked by other things)

PCB Thoughts
==============
The game has been fun to play through so far. It has been a bit on the slow side, just talking in terms of 1cc'ing the game as Stage 4 and 5 have been really rough to learn. Youmu is just tough fight that I can't really cheese/bomb my way through, though at least I've finally realized why I keep tripping up at the Prismrivers (I wasn't aware at first that the fight changed depending on which sister you damaged the most so that's improved things a little).

I mentioned how this game has a lot of streaming involved. I still think that it's the case. But I do think that ZUN has uses it soo much better in this game. There aren't those 8 directional homing shots that got used a lot by Patchy, Remilia and Flandre in certain nonspells. He's much better at making those parts less obvious. And the ones that are obvious, aren't trivialized by you knowing that they're stream-able (unlike EoSD's Stage 5), they're still tough and require you to be careful.

As for other gameplay related comments, I think this is the first game where the patterns are really refined. I do think that EoSD does a better job of individualizing each boss' bullet "theme" (like Meiling's rainbow bullets, Sakuya's knives and Remilia's red themed bullets) I do think the patterns are just overall better in PCB.

In the context of the series, this game introduces many mechanics such as
-showing the player hitbox and the enemy's position (these have been in every entry after this game)
-shot changing when you focus (something that's become prevalent again in recent games)
-bomb changing when you focus (also used in IN, can't remember if it's used in later games)
It also uses a sub-system (the Cherry scoring system), I believe spellcard history has been implemented with this and practice mode has been tweaked in this game (so now it functions like a proper practice mode).

Aside from that, the game is just a graphic improvement over EoSD. The ZUN art doesn't have a drop in quality as bad as EoSD (though it's still ZUN art). The backgrounds are much, much better though. Also I don't think there are any egregious color choices in this game (like most of Mystic Square, or Remilia's red bullets on red background fight) which is a plus.

In terms of music, I think this game is probably my absolute favorite overall soundtrack. Like there are tracks in the series I like better, but as far as consistency goes, I don't think anything really comes close. I think what I enjoy the most is that it gets the musical progression right; the songs just get better, there's nothing like IN stage 2's music (I like Deaf to All But the Song, and Song of the Night Sparrow, but they were absolutely wasted on a character like Mystia, and they had no business being Stage 2 themes only)

That's all I have to say right now on PCB.

As for IaMP I only really have first impressions. Unlike PCB which I've played before, I only really touched IaMP for a really short amount of time (I've played way more of Hisoutensoku and the newer fighters, and have actually cleared the newer ones)


IaMP First Impressions
==============
For someone that plays a lot of fighting games, it has been a pretty painful experience learning and adapting to this game. I don't mean that in a negative way; I don't think the game is terrible at all and it actually has its nuances. It's just that after playing so many fighters, it's hard to suddenly be expected to dash through projectiles to avoid them rather than block them, or to have distance based normals that change to projectiles (though I'm not new to distance based normals in general, since Vampire Savior had this for a few characters). It's just pretty rare for me to feel uncomfortable with a fighting game. This game has actually been pretty fun to play

I don't have any major thoughts so far since I'm still learning. I cannot say I'm a fan of the boss phases at all though. I thought I would like them on paper (it seems like a good way to let people learn the mechanics while making it clear that you're fighting a computer, not an actual human player) but they've just been kinda frustrating to be honest (but that opinion could change once I've properly adapted to the game). I also really like that there's no weather, or occult ball or popularity fluff.

I'm still on Reimu and I assume that using continues probably means I missed out on her proper ending, so I've still got quite a ways to go. But yeah, I've been playing a lot recently.


Also, I'm disappointed but happy that it's Reisen for PS4. I mean, I fail to see how Reisen is surprising, but if they do change up the next fighting game like them going from Hisoutensoku to Hopeless Masquerade, I don't have to feel bad about Reisen only appearing in a PS4 Port :D
 

Haganeren

Member
I thought a lot more people would be happy with Reisen in Touhou 14.5. I find it really fun to see Touhou 8 which was more or less forgotten for fighting game to have character in the newer one thanks to Touhou 15.

Koishi already takes the place of "that strange character which do very strange thing" so in wonder how Reisen will play.

... Also, i hope we will have a patch for the PC version too. If not it would be the first time playing the "best" version would be on console instead of PC which i think is a little sad. I would prefer this to remain the first time a Touhou game is playable officially on console.
 

Zweizer

Banned
I thought a lot more people would be happy with Reisen in Touhou 14.5. I find it really fun to see Touhou 8 which was more or less forgotten for fighting game to have character in the newer one thanks to Touhou 15.

Reisen was already in 10.5/12.3 and Mokou was in 14.5 though.
 

Evilisk

Member
I thought a lot more people would be happy with Reisen in Touhou 14.5. I find it really fun to see Touhou 8 which was more or less forgotten for fighting game to have character in the newer one thanks to Touhou 15.

I think part of it may be because she was in a previous fighting game already (only Reimu and Marisa returned for the new games for very obvious reasons). I've also heard that people dislike her being here because she was just in a new game (LoLK).

For me it's the first reason, and also because I dislike most Moon characters, I dislike the Eientei faction and I dislike Reisen the most out of that group in particular :p

It's partly because I dislike how bland looking she is (talking purely on her design), but it's mostly because I spent soooo much time and attempts trying to clear her part in PoFV, that I just dislike her.

To be fair on her, I actually think she's sort of cool in SWR with her moveset, I like her shottype in LoLK and I like picking her for PatchCon so my opinion improved a bit. But I'm really not "excited" for her inclusion, and ZUN's unintentional teasing certainly didn't help at all
 

ibyea

Banned
Posting since I started PCB/IaMP now (after getting sidetracked by other things)


PCB Thoughts
==============
The game has been fun to play through so far. It has been a bit on the slow side, just talking in terms of 1cc'ing the game as Stage 4 and 5 have been really rough to learn. Youmu is just tough fight that I can't really cheese/bomb my way through, though at least I've finally realized why I keep tripping up at the Prismrivers (I wasn't aware at first that the fight changed depending on which sister you damaged the most so that's improved things a little).

I mentioned how this game has a lot of streaming involved. I still think that it's the case. But I do think that ZUN has uses it soo much better in this game. There aren't those 8 directional homing shots that got used a lot by Patchy, Remilia and Flandre in certain nonspells. He's much better at making those parts less obvious. And the ones that are obvious, aren't trivialized by you knowing that they're stream-able (unlike EoSD's Stage 5), they're still tough and require you to be careful.

As for other gameplay related comments, I think this is the first game where the patterns are really refined. I do think that EoSD does a better job of individualizing each boss' bullet "theme" (like Meiling's rainbow bullets, Sakuya's knives and Remilia's red themed bullets) I do think the patterns are just overall better in PCB.

In the context of the series, this game introduces many mechanics such as
-showing the player hitbox and the enemy's position (these have been in every entry after this game)
-shot changing when you focus (something that's become prevalent again in recent games)
-bomb changing when you focus (also used in IN, can't remember if it's used in later games)
It also uses a sub-system (the Cherry scoring system), I believe spellcard history has been implemented with this and practice mode has been tweaked in this game (so now it functions like a proper practice mode).

Aside from that, the game is just a graphic improvement over EoSD. The ZUN art doesn't have a drop in quality as bad as EoSD (though it's still ZUN art). The backgrounds are much, much better though. Also I don't think there are any egregious color choices in this game (like most of Mystic Square, or Remilia's red bullets on red background fight) which is a plus.

In terms of music, I think this game is probably my absolute favorite overall soundtrack. Like there are tracks in the series I like better, but as far as consistency goes, I don't think anything really comes close. I think what I enjoy the most is that it gets the musical progression right; the songs just get better, there's nothing like IN stage 2's music (I like Deaf to All But the Song, and Song of the Night Sparrow, but they were absolutely wasted on a character like Mystia, and they had no business being Stage 2 themes only)

That's all I have to say right now on PCB.

Yeah learning stage 4 and 5 is hell. Stage 4 is really long, and for stage 5 Youmu is so freaking difficult. Regarding the latter, it seems ZUN always had trouble balancing difficulty. I really like the game though and it is such an improvement over the previous installment. The existence of a proper practice mode is such a blessing.

Weirdly enough the soundtrack has the one music that I actually don't like at all in the modern Touhou games, which is the theme for the first boss. But it is a good price to pay for what I also consider to be the absolute best soundtrack in the entire series. I don't know how to explain it except to say that the progression of the soundtracks from one stage to another just feels great in a way no other games can replicate. By the time I finished, Yuyuko's theme, in combination with the theme of the last spell card, has become my favorite track in the series.

Funny you talk of Song of the Night Sparrow, it is actually my favorite track of IN, and it is indeed too awesome for Mystia's stage. :p
 

Evilisk

Member
Yeah learning stage 4 and 5 is hell. Stage 4 is really long, and for stage 5 Youmu is so freaking difficult. Regarding the latter, it seems ZUN always had trouble balancing difficulty. I really like the game though and it is such an improvement over the previous installment. The existence of a proper practice mode is such a blessing.

Weirdly enough the soundtrack has the one music that I actually don't like at all in the modern Touhou games, which is the theme for the first boss. But it is a good price to pay for what I also consider to be the absolute best soundtrack in the entire series. I don't know how to explain it except to say that the progression of the soundtracks from one stage to another just feels great in a way no other games can replicate. By the time I finished, Yuyuko's theme, in combination with the theme of the last spell card, has become my favorite track in the series.

Funny you talk of Song of the Night Sparrow, it is actually my favorite track of IN, and it is indeed too awesome for Mystia's stage. :p

On the music, I absolutely agree. The progression of music in PCB is perfect. I don't think there are any other games that get it right for me (LoLK comes close, but I think Pure Furies is such a long and bloated final boss theme, and I also don't like Seiran's themes at all, whereas I more or less like all of PCB's tracks).

With IN's soundtrack, Song of the Night Sparrow is a fine theme. It only just gets beaten out by Cinderella Cage to me though. Cinderella Cage is just, hands down, one of my absolute favorite themes in the series. I think Night Sparrow would be a very close second theme overall though.

On the difficulty, yeah I heard that some of the games had way harder Stage 5 bosses than Stage 6 ones. I'm only starting to see it now since I only started to seriously go for 1cc's this year lol. And yeah Stage 4 is just brutally long even if it is very simple. I think on the upside though, I get to listen to the stage theme constantly (Capital City of Flowers in the Sky is also a real favorite of mine) so that's helped a little.
 

microfolk

Member
PCB's Stage 4 might as well be one of my favourite stages in the entire series. It's really long for Touhou standards and this alone feels really refreshing but it's also really really routing heavy, while at the same time keeping an excellent, varied pace, mixing sections where you just have to stream (and even then the three spinners sections requires different approaches) with sections where you've got to quickly and precisely position yourself in order to kill the fairies dropping from above the screen before they fill the entire field with bullets. Lily White and the final death fairy adds the final ingredients to this awesome mix, and even though the last fairy is 100% static and shouldn't pose any danger whatsoever once you learn her pattern I still get incredibly tense everytime I face her... And then you arrive before the Hakugyokurou, with the theme perfecting looping and giving you a brief moment of peace before the boss fight.
Man I love that stage.

Also not only is The Capital City of Flowers in the Sky one of the most amazing tracks in the entire series' OST, it also has one of the best arranges ever made.
 

shockdude

Member
Touhou 7 is great. The introduction of the visible hitbox allowed ZUN to make some really dense patterns compared to Touhou 6, and stages 3 and 4 are both really fun. Also it has SakuyaB which is the best shottype that has ever appeared in a Touhou shmup.
 

microfolk

Member
Sakuya B is the shit, truly one of the best shot types I've ever played in any STG ever. Still don't know if it's my favourite though, Youmu in IN is so much fun and I'm pretty partial to Reimu C + Marisa Anything in SA solely because they are all bonkers and original.
 

Evilisk

Member
Sakuya B is the shit, truly one of the best shot types I've ever played in any STG ever. Still don't know if it's my favourite though, Youmu in IN is so much fun and I'm pretty partial to Reimu C + Marisa Anything in SA solely because they are all bonkers and original.

Don't know about SakuyaB (I've mostly been using Marisa so far), what's so good about it specifically?

Also I was just gonna say, I absolutely love Youmu/Ghost Team's shottype in IN. It's been so disappointing that it's never really returned (the Aya shot in SA feels so poor by comparison, and I never liked those "follow the leader familar" shottypes like Marisa in MoF or Youmu's non focused shot in TD). I think it's the one thing I'm looking forward to in IN lol (I'm slightly exaggerating, but still)
 

microfolk

Member
Don't know about SakuyaB (I've mostly been using Marisa so far), what's so good about it specifically?

She's hellishly fast (and the more I played this genre the more I've grown to love fast movements, even in otherwise slow and dense games like Touhou) and she can horizontally direction her shots, which is really wide and does crazy damages when shot gunning. Basically she's able to pick up enemies all over the screen like an homing type would be able to but it's a matter of skill instead of relying on the homing algorithm.
I find her routes really fun, the only reason I'm not always playing her in PCB is that Merlin's opening non spell in Hard and Lunatic is the most unfair and difficult bullshit in the whole game. :V
 

shockdude

Member
I haven't used IN Youmu much, haven't wrapped my mind around how to best take advantage of her shot. I've seen videos of how amazing it is though.
PCB SakuyaB is power incarnate. The unfocused shot has huge range and destroys stages, while the focused shot has plenty of power and unrivaled versatility. It's just tons of fun.
 

ibyea

Banned
PCB's Stage 4 might as well be one of my favourite stages in the entire series. It's really long for Touhou standards and this alone feels really refreshing but it's also really really routing heavy, while at the same time keeping an excellent, varied pace, mixing sections where you just have to stream (and even then the three spinners sections requires different approaches) with sections where you've got to quickly and precisely position yourself in order to kill the fairies dropping from above the screen before they fill the entire field with bullets. Lily White and the final death fairy adds the final ingredients to this awesome mix, and even though the last fairy is 100% static and shouldn't pose any danger whatsoever once you learn her pattern I still get incredibly tense everytime I face her... And then you arrive before the Hakugyokurou, with the theme perfecting looping and giving you a brief moment of peace before the boss fight.
Man I love that stage.

Also not only is The Capital City of Flowers in the Sky one of the most amazing tracks in the entire series' OST, it also has one of the best arranges ever made.

Yeah I love this stage despite being so hard to navigate to the end. Plus the boss fight can differ a bit depending on who you damage more on the first attack, which I thought was pretty cool!
 
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