I think its important to point out that D3 appears to have been developed with consoles in mind, compared to D2. Dota has not and is significantly more complex and demanding with regards to controls and inputs.
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Valve soft launches Source 2 with Dota 2 port, Dota 2 Xbox reticule found, L4D3 refs
- Thread starter ashecitism
- Start date
I think its important to point out that D3 appears to have been developed with consoles in mind, compared to D2. Dota has not and is significantly more complex and demanding with regards to controls and inputs.
RMS Gigantic
Member
The problem I have isn't with having early access (I thoroughly enjoy public tests of games), the problem is when a developer puts up a game filled with bugs that took a weekend's worth of effort or less on Early Access (See: Earth: Year 2066), charges far more money than the effort that was put into it justifies, and claim that they'll continue to work on it so that it can remain on Early Access, only to never actually fix their broken game.
That's the most problematic case in my eyes because the developer is actively lying and actively playing video game players for fools. Less problematic but still extremely problematic is when such extremely buggy games go through Greenlight with no legitimate QA testing (See: Guise of the Wolf) or are just allowed to go on the store all on their own (See: Air Control). They're very much a pre-crash Atari, except the Internet making information exchange so easy and fast won't allow us the fortune of seeing Valve's market crash.
I used to be a big fan of Valve, but I eventually became extremely cynical because of things like this. Part of me is also cynical because every time someone buys one of these broken games, Valve gets an undisclosed amount of the money from the purchase (I think I heard the figure of 15% thrown around) and don't allow for refunds unless law specifically requires it (Even Origin allows you to get refunds regardless of your local laws as long as certain conditions are met!), so I view it as Valve making money from someone else's game, and not even a good one at that, so they don't even have customer satisfaction going for them in these cases!
SpookyFries
Member
So... Source 2 is still going to make us convert models and textures into some Valve only format? I was really hoping they'd learn a thing or two from more modern game engines.
I am just making assumptions of course, but so far it looks to be an upgrade to source and not much else.
I am just making assumptions of course, but so far it looks to be an upgrade to source and not much else.
Converting models and materials into custom formats is done in nearly all modern game engines, even if they hide it from you. Doing so allows for performance benefits when loading these assets into memory among other things.
You didn't answer the question. You said that Valve will:
But since the Early Access initiative launched, Valve's done nothing but stress the point that the games aren't fit for general consumption, to the extent that Early Access games no longer show up on the New Releases list and developers can no longer write what they want but rather have to fill out a template that codifies in no uncertain terms what the game's current state is, what the future plans are, and if there are any differences between the early and final releases that users should be aware of. You're not the first person to have grievances about the Early Access system, but the notion that it hasn't changed for the better and, worse still, has or will be exploited is incongruous with reality.
Edit: For the record, Valve, like GOG, takes 30% (Phil Fish confirmed this last year), and it does have offer refunds on pre-orders (as well as unused gifts, eventually, and I do think that Early Access titles should also be brought into the fold considering their state and potentially uncertain future).
SpookyFries
Member
This is true but its still a pain in the ass to get models into Source. Maybe because half the tools barely work anymore, but I was hoping for a more streamlined approach in S2
Wait, are you seriously taking issue with Steam taking a cut of sales? They're providing developers and publishers with an extremely useful service, why shouldn't they get paid for that?
You mean people with KB/M would be faster, right? Yeah, good point, so maybe the reticule is just a test or something like that.
maniac-kun
Member
So how far is Valve taking the modability of Dota 2? Are RTS mods possible? A WC3 like campaign?
It's definitely a massive pain, but it does look to have improved here with the new Material Editor and Model Editor tools in the editor.
For example, the Material Editor allows you to import TGAs and PSDs textures to make a VMAT through a visual interface, and you can also import OBJ files into the Model Editor. I haven't fully explored how either works yet, but I think there is at least a visual pipeline for doing things now.
Duxxy3
Member
People said the same thing about first person shooters. Yet, first person shooters are now the most popular genre on consoles. Somebody will make a moba that works on consoles, it's only a matter of time.
It won't have the speed or accuracy of a PC moba, but that's to be expected.
Interfectum
Member
An RTS is definitely possible. And cutscenes are possible as well. Tons of scripting options available.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
Yes, someone can probably make a MOBA that works fine on consoles with a controller.
DOTA 2 is not that game, and can't be without some considerable reworking.
Would a Smash Bros. Clone with Dota Heroes be possible?
Interfectum
Member
There are two different arguments going on here. The poster you responded to was specifically talking about Dota 2.
Dota 2 will not work on a controller.
However, MOBAs are possible on a controller. (Example)
From what I've read - possibilities sound limitless - so I'd think the answer to that question would almost certainly be "yes".
There are already MOBAs that work well on consoles. Dota 2 will not be one of them.
this is one of those things where i didn't realize that i wanted it but now i want it more than anything else
SpookyFries
Member
Thank goodness. That is what I was hoping for. Getting even a static prop into Source 1 was a hassle. Here's hoping that an update to the Source SDK with Source 2 comes out in the near future!
There were rumors of Smite appearing on PS4. If/when they do that and also release it on Xbox, the game will probably become the second most popular MOBA. They just need to hurry up before someone does it faster, and if they're smart they should be getting it done soon, considering the game could perfectly be ported and played in a console with just minimal tweaks. It's playable with a controller already.
valve does remove workshop content if they get a DMCA takedown notice, so yes those would be shut down
i'm sure they could still be hosted elsewhere and loaded manually but it would be a pain and would probably get killed eventually anyway
SolidsnackooFoxhound
Banned
GregLombardi
Member
Valve hasn't really announced anything in years. They just do things now it seems.
Here the next Nintendo Clone idea:
A Pokemon Clone with the Dota heroes as Pokemons. Dotamons xD
edit:
would that not get copyright problems?
As long as it's free I guess not.There were tons of maps for wc3 with copyrighted material.
There was that guy on /r/dota2 who seemed to do pretty well with the DualShock 3. It worked for him, though I don't think this would mean that it'd be a good setup for everyone. There's also that person who made it to Masters in SC2 with a controller.
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1t7cqr/ive_played_dota_2_with_a_playstation_controller/
Here's a VOD: http://www.twitch.tv/victorgaming/c/3424746
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1t7cqr/ive_played_dota_2_with_a_playstation_controller/
Here's a VOD: http://www.twitch.tv/victorgaming/c/3424746
Yeah, idk why you guys are getting so ham fisted about controllers in dota 2. It would take a minor ui overhaul along with a minor tweak to add in support for moving around the menus of the game with the controller.
Also, Valve will probably release L4D3 and their other shooters on console. I doubt Valve will want to deal with another TF2 or CS Go with Dota 2. Although this could also just be remnants of their some code that they were testing out. Valve tries to do everything
Also, Valve will probably release L4D3 and their other shooters on console. I doubt Valve will want to deal with another TF2 or CS Go with Dota 2. Although this could also just be remnants of their some code that they were testing out. Valve tries to do everything
I meant the gameplay is too fast for a controller.
Then explain how this guy does it on a system that he basically had to make up. He said he can't play 3-4 heroes out the shit ton they have. I doubt that valve would be limited to the basics of xpadder to make every hero work.
You may not want to play Dota 2 with a controller, hell, I don't think anyone here would willingly do that to themselves, but it's definitely feasible to implement controller support to Dota 2.
But like I said, this is prolly for Left 4 Dead 3 and Half Life 3, which are most likely going to be on consoles. since they generally do not have a huge influx of patches and fixes like Dota 2, CS GO, and TF2 have.
Purple Cheeto
Member
Guardians of Middle Earth was so bad. So, so bad.
Controllers are not ever going to happen in DOTA 2 unless they have a lesser controller league or something. You can't snap the camera all over the map or properly target spells with a controller.
The controller talk is likely about using an xbox controller in spectator mode which is perfectly fine.
Edit: I apologize for the double post, issue with mobile.
SteveWinwood
Member
there was that guy that won a few games using a steering wheel
i'm waiting for lightgun support
So from my understanding they've almost completely ported dota 2 to source 2. So in the future the game will be moved over. I'm surprised but at the same time shouldn't be as dota is their most successful game and having the benefits of a new engine that's somewhat backwards compatible is a no no brainer. A redditor was running the source 2 version and saw improvements to the game like no hitching which is great. I'm interested to see more of the update hammer features as well as the other new editors.
Prophet Steve
Member
Seems pretty difficult for him. The first two minutes not a single last hit without using attack move (and only two with it), he is also basically giving up on denying. It is still impressive, but I wonder at what skill level he is playing.
It might still work if you change the mechanics of the game a bit though, a bit more snap on to heroes and creeps maybe, but then you have issues with point targeted spells. And 30 buttons on a controller might be daunting for people.
i skipped to later in the video and it looks like he has a lot of trouble with his item usage, though that could be skill level rather than input problems.
i still don't think heroes like chen, naga, and meepo would really be possible to play at a high level on controller. it might be technically possible to get through a game that way but the lower skill ceiling changes the game significantly, basically a console version would heavily nerf micro-heavy characters.
GregLombardi
Member
Yeah I'm super excited. What exactly is hitching again? Also, has anyone commented on how long it would take to get this up and running in the main client, now that it is in Alpha?
Interfectum
Member
The dude has played Dota for nine years and barely looks capable in that video. So a nine year veteran managed to suffer through a 40 button controller combo to show off how it can be done over Twitch. How is that viable for a mainstream console audience? He could also probably get some kills in a Kinect-only version too.
Prophet Steve
Member
Since he played for 9 years I doubt it is his skill level. This might not be the ideal hero to showcase though.
So what you do then is like what Blizzard did with Diablo 3: remove point-targeted spells and all the interesting gameplay possibilities they open up
SteveWinwood
Member
The hitching is whenever a new model loads in. It makes sense that ARDM was delayed now since that was a major issue with it constantly loading in things.
They haven't said. We know there is an update at the end of august. It could be part of that, it could not be.
i'm sure he could play razor or viper pretty easily on a pad
doesn't say much for the control scheme though
Prophet Steve
Member
So what you do then is like what Blizzard did with Diablo 3: remove point-targeted spells and all the interesting gameplay possibilities they open up
It is true, DOTA has so many point targeted skills that make things interesting. Or you need to use a toggle again between locking on and free movement. But that is another not ideal solution which makes things more complicated. And you'll get that for a lot of things in the game.
EDIT: To be clear, I don't think they should actually port DOTA 2 to consoles.
Well, Tinker is very reliant on many active items and his spells and needs to combo pretty quickly. But he'll keep the last hitting issues that he had at the start.
batteryLeakage
Neo Member
That load time is incredible! The fact that this is so compatible with Source 1 assets makes sense but is something I didn't really anticipate. Hopefully other Source 1 games make the transition. I'm looking at you TF2. I don't even care about updated graphics or anything of the sort, just fast loading is enough.