They weren't.
Newer than standard DDR3? Yes, they did say that. And yes it's true. Didn't see anything in the Abominable's post that alluded to it being any premium form. A little more costly sure.
Some people just need to take a step back and stop acting like everyone disagreeing the WiiU is uniformly weak and outdated is some crazy deluded Nintendo fan. It's really not a weak system.
Strangely designed from the norm? Definitely.
Comparable to the 6 year old efforts of Sony and MS? Duh.
But in no way is any of that weak. It wasn't last year, it won't be ten years from now. You'll still be able to create a title like Last of Us or Beyond on it. That is the likely ceiling. While that ceiling will continue to rise with newer more powerful hardware... how does that make the games that came before worthless or ugly?
It doesn't. The only time it has is in the N64 era. And that's back when you were lucky to achieve a character model of 800 polygons. Once you start getting well designed character models at 30,000 polygons with normals to simulate much higher poly counts it starts becoming much more difficult to create noticeably improved character models with more polies. Higher res normals would help much more.
Basic IQ? That can always be improved. And in this WiiU falls short. But I don't expect the most marvelous of endeavors in that arena on Orbis or Durango either. Resolution and Image Quality are always the first things sacrificed in console gaming. To free up resources for whatever is viewed as necessary.
So we all need to take a step back. I don't want to see anyone banned for going crazier than usual.
They weren't.
Newer than standard DDR3? Yes, they did say that. And yes it's true. Didn't see anything in the Abominable's post that alluded to it being any premium form. A little more costly sure.
Nintendo chose low power DDR components which are actually more expensive than faster, fullsize full voltage DDR chips.
The DDR3 in the Wii U is different. Its more akin to the RAM in your iPhone/iPad/Android equivalents.
they're smaller low-power, low heat, 'fast' chips. Not exactly the DDR3 that appears in your desktop.
Pretty sure the 1 GB is not only meant for the OS but also its applications like the browser.
I've always been in the camp that new tech is awesome, but for the most part unnecessary. I mean there is an appreciable difference between Beyond and Watch_Dogs or UE4.weak is a relative term and games I could happily play back in the day look ugly as sin today. So yes, I do think that a step up from Sony and MS is going to leave Wii titles looking "weak" thanks to the "weak" hardware on offer.
Why does the Wii-U OS take up 1GB of ram?
Doesn't the PS3 only use something like 52mb?
I would say in pure technical power it's 1/4 of current gen. But because screen is smaller it can push better looking graphic at lower res.
it has 128Vram
Don't know about Xbox, but in general if you load a page in the browser, you will need RAM for its contents. So you could basically load a page with roughly 1 GB of images in it. This kind of RAM is called user space on normal computers and that's what I meant. Still, 1GB is pretty generous of course.Doesn't Xbox 360 have IE now too... And still at 32MB?
OS is just bloated ATM for Wii U.
Doesn't Xbox 360 have IE now too... And still at 32MB?
OS is just bloated ATM for Wii U.
Definitely.While your point on diminishing returns is valid to a degree, Thunder Monkey.
His point that "weak" is a relative term is also valid. It's perfectly reasonable to describe the Wii U as weak in certain aspects or relative to certain comparable devices (current or future) based on the information emerging - regardless of if it's output (current or future).
It depends on the benchmark one sets.
You can't use IE on Xbox while running games. It's using all the available system RAM.
Doesn't Xbox 360 have IE now too... And still at 32MB?
OS is just bloated ATM for Wii U.
And the fact is we don't know what Nintendo paid. We know they used at least 2 other vendors and neither the Hynix or Samsung parts imply there's anything special about them being "low power". The only thing specially about the RAM is it's not designed to overclock or overvolt well like a lot of the consumer grade stuff sold through Newegg. Other than that it is basically the cheapest RAM you can buy on the open market.
Wii U 'Has A Horrible, Slow CPU' Says Metro Last Light Dev
Ruh rohs.
I 'don't know how to optimise code for different architectures' Says Metro Last Light Dev
I 'don't know how to optimise code for different architectures' Says Metro Last Light Dev
It's more like "I don't care to optimise code for different architectures" really.
Except they are doing 3 platforms already
It's more like "I don't care to optimise code for different architectures" really.
Nintendo knew the landscape when they were developing wiiU. They had three choices
1) aim high, get a system that could take UE4 and ports or downports of 720/PS4 stuff
.
I think that was hinted, but probably even ps3 and xbox360 will get it given the large userbase.
What seems more obvious though is that while WiiU is capable in terms of features, it is missing the raw power some may expected, which is why i think it won't be able to get many downports. But it's a matter of the publishers being interested in releasing the games for the WiiU.
I mean, 3DS got SFIV and i think a resident evil developer said that they had RE:5 running on the system as a showcase. Think about how less capable and architecturally different the 3DS is, yet if there is money to be had, ports can happen.
i'll download some more RAM when i need it
Micron's modules are DDR3L, but they have 1.5V compatibility mode, which is most likely how they're used on the WiiU, as the other two vendors' parts are both 1.5V.From one of the teardowns they're using Micron DDR3L, the same chip here
http://www.micron.com/~/media/Documents/Products/Data Sheet/DRAM/4Gb_1_35V_DDR3L.pdf
The teardown: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+Wii+U+Teardown/11796/2
"DDR3L SDRAM (1.35V) is a low voltage version of the
DDR3 SDRAM (1.5V)."
But you're right, it's not exactly the same used in ipods. That was hyperbole
I think that was hinted, but probably even ps3 and xbox360 will get it given the large userbase.
I 'don't know how to optimise code for different architectures' Says Metro Last Light Dev
It's more like "I don't care to optimise code for different architectures" really.
Because it's on a 64bit bus. PCs use the same RAM, but wider busses (dual, triple or quad channel controllers). POWER7 even uses dual quad channel memory controllers (2 x 4 x 64bit).Hmm I am confused . Why is ddr 3 ram at say 1600 slow in the wii u? My workstation that I am working on right now has the sam ram in it and its not slow by any means.
Because it's on a 64bit bus. PCs use the same RAM, but wider busses (dual, triple or quad channel controllers). POWER7 even uses dual quad channel memory controllers (2 x 4 x 64bit).
you assume different = good still.
The architecture may not only be different but it also worse than the HD twins for the way the 4A engine works (the engine powering Metro games).
Seriously, saying lazy devs with 4a games is hilarious. These guys are actually tech masters. Read the digital foundry interview with their lead tech guy. He criticizes a lot about his own engine work and the work of others...
We do. We know the specifications for the chips. There are four chips, each chip has a 16bit interface.We know what the bus is just by looking at the ram itself? Couldn't the two 512 chips be connected as if they were dual channel?
Hmm I am confused . Why is ddr 3 ram at say 1600 slow in the wii u? My workstation that I am working on right now has the sam ram in it and its not slow by any means.
Your PC has 1600 DDR3 for main memory.
Your PC then (most likely) has a bunch of higher spec memory sitting on the graphics card.
This page has a table with a bunch of figures for graphics cards from 2009 including the original 4770.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/radeon-hd4770_2.html
It doessn't seem a totally catastrophic decision (e.g. BLOPS2 seems to run fine), but it does set a definite ceiling on the Wii-U performance.
Does it?
Your PC has 1600 DDR3 for main memory.
Your PC then (most likely) has a bunch of higher spec memory sitting on the graphics card.
This page has a table with a bunch of figures for graphics cards from 2009 including the original 4770.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/radeon-hd4770_2.html
It doessn't seem a totally catastrophic decision (e.g. BLOPS2 seems to run fine), but it does set a definite ceiling on the Wii-U performance.
Textures are pretty much a non issue. With 1GB RAM total, you only use a couple dozen MB textures per frame. Most bandwidth is used to access a limited amount of data many times per frame.Yes, it does. Specifically in terms of texturing, the WiiU is limited.
Textures are pretty much a non issue. With 1GB RAM total, you only use a couple dozen MB textures per frame. Most bandwidth is used to access a limited amount of data many times per frame.
For example:
Also worth mentioning that, I believe the 4870 had much lower memory bandwidth than the WiiU seemingly has (?)
Indeed.
For example:
Also worth mentioning that, I believe the 4870 had much lower memory bandwidth than the WiiU seemingly has (?)
You can't use IE on Xbox while running games. It's using all the available system RAM.
Indeed.
For example:
Also worth mentioning that, I believe the 4870 had much lower memory bandwidth than the WiiU seemingly has (?)
"Optimize" is another word for downgrade in this case which he specifically said it wouldn't be worth it.
I agree with your first sentence. We simply don't have enough information to claim that everything is uniformly weak and outdated, and even if we did have full information I don't think 32MB eDRAM are outdated by any definition.Some people just need to take a step back and stop acting like everyone disagreeing the WiiU is uniformly weak and outdated is some crazy deluded Nintendo fan. It's really not a weak system.
It had almost 10x more external memory bandwidth. We don't know how much B/W the Wii U GPU has to the eDRAM.Also worth mentioning that, I believe the 4870 had much lower memory bandwidth than the WiiU seemingly has (?)
This is an interesting point. What's the 6400m's die size? Edit: seems to be too small.The gpu seems to be a 6400m mobile processor. shares the same 64bit memory and everything. Same process and everything
I agree with your first sentence. We simply don't have enough information to claim that everything is uniformly weak and outdated, and even if we did have full information I don't think 32MB eDRAM are outdated by any definition.
But the second part, "it's not a weak system", seems to be a rather subjective judgement. I say releasing a piece of consumer electronics in a similar form factor that has trouble matching 6 year old hardware in some aspects is "weak". It may be "efficient", but the two -- to me -- are not mutually exclusive.