Rupt said:if this and monado are as fun as day of crisis (and if they make it to UK) i can forgive nintendo for no star fox
I wont, but I do want these games to come to the US
Rupt said:if this and monado are as fun as day of crisis (and if they make it to UK) i can forgive nintendo for no star fox
RPGManiac said:Reggie better announce the US release date for this at E3.
Yeah the hammer looks so fun to use! Hope this game makes it to North America.Luckydude23 said:The videos really do look amazing. The attack animations look pretty cool and the hammer weapon looks awesome. When I saw the guy hit that monster with the hammer, my jaw literally hit the floor :lol .
Bel Marduk said:Should we expect various field stages? All the demo shows is the grassy/village one.
Agnates said:Is it his screen or is M+ play really laggy there? It's definitely not like that in WSR. Though it doesn't look laggy enough to hinder gameplay much, it looks weird.
Agnates said:Is it his screen or is M+ play really laggy there? It's definitely not like that in WSR. Though it doesn't look laggy enough to hinder gameplay much, it looks weird.
Vilix said:From viewing the video it seems akin to Phantasy Star Online. Will it be in that same genre?
duckroll said:
sprsk said:You can play missions online with others though, I guess thats something in common...
Eh, in the M+ vid he thrusts, his character thrusts with the spear, he swings left right rapidly, his character swings, the "drawing a line, then waiting for the move to perform" part seems to be for some kind of special moves that are slower (especially with the hammer which perhaps is only able to do those going by some vids) yet more powerful. That particular M+ vid just seems to have control lag in everything, including the cursor actually. Maybe. To me it seems those thrusts and speedy left right swings should not have the delay the "draw a line" moves do, it looks like lag as there's no build up and powerful slow swing like with the "drawing a line" thing.duckroll said:The motion controls don't control the weapons directly. They control a cursor you use to control the weapons. So even with Motion+, it will only make it more accurate between wiimote motion and on-screen cursor motion. It has nothing to do with the actual swinging of the weapons.
Agnates said:Eh, in the M+ vid he thrusts, his character thrusts with the spear, he swings left right rapidly, his character swings, the "drawing a line, then waiting for the move to perform" part seems to be for some kind of special moves that are slower (especially with the hammer which perhaps is only able to do those going by some vids) yet more powerful. That particular M+ vid just seems to have control lag in everything, including the cursor actually. Maybe. To me it seems those thrusts and speedy left right swings should not have the delay the "draw a line" moves do, it looks like lag as there's no build up and powerful slow swing like with the "drawing a line" thing.
KevinCow said:If it's anything like EDF 2017, you will be playing the exact same stages with different enemy placement many, many times. I'm sure there will be some sort of variety, but that grassy village one will probably take up 90% of the first few hours.
Agnates said:Eh, in the M+ vid he thrusts, his character thrusts with the spear, he swings left right rapidly, his character swings, the "drawing a line, then waiting for the move to perform" part seems to be for some kind of special moves that are slower (especially with the hammer which perhaps is only able to do those going by some vids) yet more powerful. That particular M+ vid just seems to have control lag in everything, including the cursor actually. Maybe. To me it seems those thrusts and speedy left right swings should not have the delay the "draw a line" moves do, it looks like lag as there's no build up and powerful slow swing like with the "drawing a line" thing.
Rupt said:we've seen load of other stages though. isn't the only reason we keep seeing this village is because that's the one on the demo? I'm don't even think that the full game has been released yet
I still think the "drawing a blue line" mechanic is a different kind of attack from the normal swings, and one that, for some weapons, is meant to be 1:1. When you draw the blue line, your character starts a slow, powerful swing animation, and when he/she finally strikes, THEN you see the slash attack effect drawn on screen. On the other hand, when you do the small, fast swings, there's no blue line, and the cursor itself appears to be actually drawing the slash attack effects, making it seem that those attacks, at least for that weapon used, are meant to be 1:1 in speed, just as cursor movement is 1:1. Doesn't it? Yet even cursor movement appears to have a delay in that video. That's what I've been trying (and failing) to explain.duckroll said:Weapons in the game all have different timings and animations. Some swords are faster than others, some are slower than others. Different weapon types also have different control schemes. The reason why the lag between motion and animation is more and more noticeable as the character performs combos, is because your hand motion will always be faster than the game's animation. There are heavier weapons like large swords and hammers which would make the "lag" even more noticeable because the character will take his time swinging the massive weapon after direction of attack is registered. For faster weapons like the sword and spears, it would SEEM like the motion is a lot closer, simply the weapon is faster. If you notice, the cursor is still always on screen, and that is what the game tracks when you move the remote.
Agnates said:I still think the "drawing a blue line" mechanic is a different kind of attack from the normal swings, and one that, for some weapons, is meant to be 1:1. And yes, I can see the cursor when he does fast swings. The cursor actually becomes the slash attack effect in that case, as opposed to a blue line. So, if the cursor trail = the slash attack effect, then clearly the slashes should be 1:1 in speed at that point. Yet they aren't, the cursor itself even has lag at that point, delaying the whole thing.
And yes, I know that some weapons have this cooldown period for when they can be used again (though at least for some of them, that may only apply when, again, drawing the blue line as opposed to the fast cursor swings), but then the first swing should still be done instantly at the same time you do it. It's not.
Galang said:Actual game is to be released in February, but I wouldn't expect a vast variety of stages in a game like this anyway.
Not every game that uses M+ needs to have 1:1 animations. This game in particular is a prime example. In game weapons have different moments of inertia and different attacks have different length build ups. The Wiimote however always remains the same (very small) moment of inernia so you will always be able to swing it very fast, which would get boring fast as all weapons would control the same. This method allows you to still get the angle of your strike replicated 1:1 (which is the most important part) but allows to in game avatar to react naturally to his circumstances. 1:1 is just an animation system.cacildo said:yeaahhh, this blue line thing dosent look too good...
I was hoping for some 1-to-1 motion controls...
duckroll said:Like EDF, I expect there to be a ton of different stages which only 4-5 different "types" in variety. Stages are not going to be the same in layout, but they will certainly mostly look the same. The demo has 4 stages, and they're not the same stage. Yet I don't think people can really tell the difference because it all looks the same. :lol
Blah, my mistake (I only watched a couple of vids off the site so I didn't realise). Still, this thread was in need of a bump, so hopefully we can get more people taking.Agnates said:That's the same footage as on the website's system page. But hey, cool stuff. Anyone put up the boss clips from the website on youtube? Tis nice to be able to embed.
It still looks like the fast slashes of some fast weapons are meant to be as fast as your cursor movements though. Yet weren't in that user video with hands in view.
cacildo said:And i guess that outside of 3 or 4 people out there in message boards, nobody actually liked that game very much. It sold almost 4 copies.
1:1, especially swordfighting, simply doesn't really work. There's nothing anyone can do about it. It neither looks nor feels right. The same is true for Sonys wand and Natal, of course. No weight, no inertia, no feedback/ impact. Not to mention the fact that you can't properly do IK with only a single joint (Natal has an edge in that regard at least).cacildo said:I dont know, man. Last time i heard "it uses motion plus but it aint 1:1" i ended with Grand Slam Tennis.
And no, i didnt liked Grand Slam Tennis. In fact, i hated it, and my brother and 3 friends hated it too.
And i guess that outside of 3 or 4 people out there in message boards, nobody actually liked that game very much. It sold almost 4 copies.
Haven't played GST, so I can't comment, but honestly, 1:1 control in ZnR just wouldn't work that well, given the attack range.cacildo said:I dont know, man. Last time i heard "it uses motion plus but it aint 1:1" i ended with Grand Slam Tennis.
And no, i didnt liked Grand Slam Tennis. In fact, i hated it, and my brother and 3 friends hated it too.
And i guess that outside of 3 or 4 people out there in message boards, nobody actually liked that game very much. It sold almost 4 copies.
wsippel said:1:1, especially swordfighting, simply doesn't really work. There's nothing anyone can do about it. It neither looks nor feels right. The same is true for Sonys wand and Natal, of course. No weight, no inertia, no feedback/ impact. Not to mention the fact that you can't properly do IK with only a single joint (Natal has an edge in that regard at least).
Luigiv said:Haven't played GST, so I can't comment, but honestly, 1:1 control in ZnR just wouldn't work that well, given the attack range.
In a game like WSR or RS2 the characters can only strike each other within realistic range, in flat levels and mostly 1 on 1 conditions. In ZnR the characters attack range is much larger then the weapon's reach, the terrain is uneven and you'll be up against large hordes, making the linear displacement of the attack very important. As you may have noticed WSR and RS2 don't track linear displacement, only the angle the remote is held at. This is because linear displacement with 1:1 controls would be a bitch to implement correctly on the Wii and is apparently not very fun in practise. In ZnR's Pointer based slashing system, Linear displacement feels natural, as you're telling your avatar how to slash, not controlling his slashes directly.
Blah, sorry for the long, poorly articulated rant. Deconstructing development decisions is a bit of a hobby of mine but I need to work on my ability to explain technical details :lol.
Luigiv said:All true, Not to mention that most gamers couldn't wield a sword in an aesthetically pleasing fashion if they're life depended on it. Case in point; the E3 2009 Sword and Shield demonstration for the Sony Wand. The Engineers stance and movement were pretty much replicated 1:1 and whilst it was technologically impressive, I was too distracted by how hideous the on screen avatar's stance and movements looked to take notice.
Doubt it, the Wii doesn't know where your shoulder and elbow are so it's impossible to pull off that way. It'll work the same way as WSR swordfighting, with animations being a combination of predefined and procedural "1:1".cacildo said:I remember i saw an excuse like this at the time of The Force Unleashed release. However, what about Zelda Wii? Aounumamamaa said they´re replicating player´s arm movement 1:1
And that´s something i REALLY like to see. Hell, im waiting for it since 2006.
sprsk said:Yeah, I got the demo yesterday. Holy shit soooooooooooo fun.
Playing without the motion plus kinnnnnnnda sucks though. The "fire wand" is the best weapon ever though, just watching that shit explode feels soooo good.