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jeff_rigby · Jan 22, 2014

ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
It would help if Jeff started posting a "what I think is happening" with a lower paragraph with "heres why"

Im a pretty tech literate guy, but reading his posts just make my eyes hurt. Its hard to seperate the opinion and speculation from the facts and information.

Sorry...If there is no I think or I believe or I guess in the text then it's a summary or quote. To add insult to injury, I didn't come to a conclusion in the post before yours...it's mostly facts about HEVC.

Facts from April 2013 to CES 2014 for context:

1) The FCC is pushing for an all IP phone standard.

2) HTML5 was supposed to reach candidate status by 2022 but the HTML 5 working group has changed that by drawing a line for features and announcing HTML 5.0 recommendation status for 2014 with HTML 5.1 for 2016, HTML 5.2 then HTML5.3 and so on. (HTML5 will be used for DLNA CVP2)

3) April 2013 "Google just announced that it is forking WebKit and launching this fork as Blink (with Javascript V8 engine and backwardly compatible code removed). As Google describes it, Blink is “an inclusive open source community” and ”a new rendering engine based on WebKit” that will, over time, “naturally evolve in different directions.” Blink, Google says, will be all about speed and simplicity."

From Cable Labs reference implementation for DLNA CVP2: "Note: On October 1st, Qt switched from using WebKit to Google's Blink. Our Qt/WebKit browser uses the latest working WebKit version, but will not be kept up to date with more recent changes. The current plan is to port the browser to GTK/WebKit going forward."

Samsung is using QTwebkit BINK in their 2013 Smart TVs.

4) Comcast Cable has a combination of fiberoptic and traditional copper RF cable to the home and with upgrades recently completed to the infrastructure can support 300 Mb/sec down speeds in most markets and 3Gbit/sec in select markets using DOCSIS 3.0 cable modems.

DOCSIS 3.1 will start to be in place by 2015 and it allows 50% faster than DOCSIS 3.0 and better error correction so it can be used with cable frequencies that were previously unusable, 750Mhz to 1.3 Ghz maybe higher. Planned is 24 contiguous channel 1-10 Gbit down and up to 1Gbit upstream in most markets by 2017.

STMiroelectonics using 64 bit ARM IP manufactured on it's FD-SOI process will be used to produce DOCSIS 3.1 modems and Hubs.

With the transition to DOCSIS 3.1 a all IPTV Cable system will start to be phased in by 2017+ which matches the previous cites for the Media gateway transition (X5 headless gateway and moving the DVR to the cloud. First DOCSIS 3.1 modems will include DOCSIS 3.0 also.)

5) Statements by Sony like they are thinking of starting a all IP network or the short throw 4K laser wall projector with an example use; a wall with a live outdoor 4K scene don't make sense unless you know the above and that eventually Comcast will relax their caps as their new ability to IP stream massive amounts of content will need content to stream and new markets will be created. In the short term HEVC can be used to reduce the bandwidth used and allow more IPTV now and still be under the 250 GB/month Comcast cap.

6) The PS3 and the PS4 support 1Gb/sec LAN ports and exceed most current cable modem speeds. By 2017 most markets will have DOCSIS 3.1 cable modems sharing 10Gbit/1Gigbit with the last mile copper node (254 users) sharing this bandwidth.

7) ST Microelectronics PDF released at CES 2014 outlines their IPTV business plans and the need for FD-SOI @28nm and smaller (HEVC and ARMv8 FD-SOI for 4K TVs, Media gateways and Hubs => 10Gbit/sec and 4K in consumer products) http://electronics360.globalspec.com/article/3937/st-takes-set-top-boxes-to-64bit-fdsoi Contrary to the opinion of some who thought it was a "failed process", they have forges producing their chipsets using 28nm FD-SOI since early 2013 but were waiting for the DOCSIS 3.1 standard to be ratified (OCT 2013) before producing their DOCSIS 3.1 chipset and CES 2014 (Jan 2014) before announcing.

Cable Labs Reference Implementation and Web site here for Linux and Windows will align with DLNA CVP2 and includes:
Java (For XTV applications and more)
GLib – utility library. (makes it a Gnome stack)
Gstreamer / HDHomerun / VLC– tuner control. => HDHomerun Mentioned in the 4/2010 Xbox 720 powerpoint.
GStreamer – media decoding and presentation.
wxWidgets – user interface. (Javascript engine GTK in the near future again Gnome)
Net-SNMP – Master Agent.

PS3, PS4 and Vita use BSD versions of Gnome Mobile (functionally equal) (Sony SNAP Developer program = Linux Gnome Mobile) PS4 open source software list is key here as they are using GTKwebkit APIs and Mono for Playstation Mobile. Mono on Linux and BSD calls CairoGL (3D vector graphics engine) and uses Glib which makes it a Gnome VM but with PS Mobile on Android platforms it calls Java/Android to write to Android's Skia Vector Graphics engine. Samsung used BSD versions of QTwebkit also based on Gnome libraries or equivalent but now based on Google Blink. Will Sony follow Samsung to Google QTBink or stay with GTKwebkit?

jeff_rigby · Jan 25, 2014

Game Console - DLNA
The freedom to access digital content from anywhere in your home turns you into the controller. The possibles are on this page. Watch TV from your Cable Box in another room on your living room or Bedroom TV.

At your local Sam's club, Staples, Best buy are now: $120-$169 2-3 Tbyte DLNA Network servers, $99 10 Inch Android tablets, $99 Samsung DLNA Blu-ray players, $324 Sony DLNA receivers.

By June 2014 your Cable TV DVR will be replaced by a DLNA Media gateway and both the XB1 and PS4 will have software upgrades allowing them to be DLNA clients and servers. The PS4 will also act as a DLNA Blu-ray server and likely the PS4, XB1, a refreshed Xbox 360 and PS3 will also serve games over the home network using the standards developed for DLNA CVP2. All these DLNA servers can stream media to each other from anywhere in the home network from server to client.

A Smart TV with DLNA CVP2 support can control and display from any DLNA server on the home network and those are: DLNA Network drive, DLNA Cable TV DVR, Blu-ray player (DLNA server), Game console. Coming are cameras, thermostats, Home Alarms and more using the DLNA standard for Remote view (RVU). If you don't have a Smart TV then you can use your game console attached to your 1080P TV.

serversurfer · Jan 25, 2014

Jeff, do you happen to know anything about Charter's plans with regard to DLNA support?

jeff_rigby · Jan 25, 2014

serversurfer said:
Jeff, do you happen to know anything about Charter's plans with regard to DLNA support?

Just the FCC mandate and only very small Cable companies have a deadline extension.

I've been trying to find anything that points to when the XB1 and PS4 will get their DLNA CVP2 firmware updates.

Earliest to latest:

Comcast is publishing the DLNA CVP2 papers Feb 15 2014. This is the earliest date that the CVP2 update to DLNA is published and not a work in progress with demos.
GDC March 17
Windows 8.1 Service Pack update 1 is April 2014 (Xbox Twitch support several months away => big upgrade including Twitch and DLNA?)
Cable companies have to replace DVRs with DLNA Home gateways by June 2014.
E3 June 10

Comcast has been upgrading DVRs in select markets with the X1 (DLNA Media gateway) but the software does not yet support a open ecosystem DLNA standard, it's custom firmware with Apps on phones because the standard has not yet been published. They are now installing X2 boxes that store DVR media in the cloud. Rumors have it that the X2 is a X1 without drive and the difference is primarily software.

ThoughtsOfSpeaking · Jan 25, 2014

jeff_rigby said:
Sorry...If there is no I think or I believe or I guess in the text then it's a summary or quote.

Ok. No offence meant. I like to follow this, but sometimes its info overload. Not sur if im down the "Playstation on" nonsense though. Guess its good to give people options.

jeff_rigby said:
By June 2014 your Cable TV DVR will be replaced by a DLNA Media gateway and both the XB1 and PS4 will have software upgrades allowing them to be DLNA clients and servers. The PS4 will also act as a DLNA Blu-ray server and likely the PS4, XB1, a refreshed Xbox 360 and PS3 will also serve games over the home network using the standards developed for DLNA CVP2. All these DLNA servers can stream media to each other from anywhere in the home network from server to client.

Wait what? Are you trying to tell me there may be a refreshed 360 + PS3 that can stream to other consoles a la remote play?

So basically PSNow for the home?

jeff_rigby · Jan 25, 2014

ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Ok. No offence meant. I like to follow this, but sometimes its info overload. Not sur if im down the "Playstation on" nonsense though. Guess its good to give people options.

Wait what? Are you trying to tell me there may be a refreshed 360 + PS3 that can stream to other consoles a la remote play?

So basically PSNow for the home?

Yes, consider it rumor and speculation at this point but it's supported by three different logic trains.

1 & 2) http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=754724

3) http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=98057603&postcount=19

I believe Skype, Twitch, DLNA CVP2, Windows 8.1 supplying a network drive for DLNA CVP2 DVR ability as well as Diskless refreshed game consoles makes Windows PCs and game consoles more attractive to us and the recently announced opening of the China market to game consoles. Games consoles serving games and Blu-ray players serving over the home network (from PCs too) are very good examples for consumers to have them buy into CEA-2014 and the connected home.

ARM trustzone and ARM h.264 decoder and encoders are cheap and necessary to properly support Skype, IPTV DRM, Twitch and Serving games; DLNA CVP2 provides the open source standards and the common DRM standard.

FunkyLounge · Jan 25, 2014

I would be more worried, that it happens from the other end.

Apple TV gets a gamepad support, maybe Apple releases a "console" with lesser power and price. Or Samsung. I mean average non gamer family will not drop the money for a PS4 or XBO, other solutions will rise in my opinion in the following year(s)

Knocks · Jan 25, 2014

Game consoles are about to get replaced with cloud devices or $25 Android USB sticks... so much for their prediction.

Oppo · Jan 25, 2014

Knocks said:
Game consoles are about to get replaced with cloud devices or $25 Android USB sticks... so much for their prediction.

Don't think we're quite there, yet.

The DLNA stuff is fascinating. I didn't even know that it went beyond mere streaming.

jeff_rigby · Jan 25, 2014

Knocks said:
Game consoles are about to get replaced with cloud devices or $25 Android USB sticks... so much for their prediction.

Sony want's $130 for an Android stick that turns their older TVs into Smart TVs. Cotton Candy is also in that price range. You have to be careful when making this comparison.....the features offered differ as does the performance. Cotton Candy will support 5GHz WiFi and Bluetooth 4.0 and if it's to be a Cable Labs and DLNA CVP2 reference design, it will also work/control a network tuner like HD Homerun.

Cable Labs Reference Implementation and Web site here for Linux and Windows will align with DLNA CVP2 and includes:
Java
GLib – utility library.
Gstreamer / HDHomerun / VLC– tuner control.
GStreamer – media decoding and presentation.
wxWidgets – user interface.
Net-SNMP – Master Agent.

The plans for features that are coming can be supported with a PS4 but only on Smart TVs in the $1400 range with evolution ports. How do you support Skype with a $25 android stick?

Samsung Smart TV SDK also see the SDK 5.0 features

We are back to the PS3 release price with many saying that Sony made a fatal mistake but Sony included everything they could to support the CEA-2014 vision...it's also why the first PS3 prototypes had multiple LAN ports and why HDMI 1.4 has a ethernet line.

Cell is first a CPU that can support media decoding and encoding as well as 4K codecs (before hardware codecs) which is why Toshiba was a partner in it's development.

Nerfgun said:
The DLNA stuff is fascinating. I didn't even know that it went beyond mere streaming.

Yup, in the DLNA.org site it's mentioned as also supporting Game streaming (page 11). I've cited that several times...a open standard for streaming games.

RVU can be used to interact with applications on the server such as games or weather tickers. As with all RVU transactions, the client TV passes any user key presses to the server.

There is the older pixel accurate and newer HTML5 UI; Pixel accurate and HTML5 webGL can support games. For the PS4, it has a WebGL UI so serving the UI to other platforms is very easy. Start to see the reasoning behind the PS4 OS design?.

jeff_rigby · Jan 30, 2014

FunkyLounge said:
I would be more worried, that it happens from the other end.

Apple TV gets a gamepad support, maybe Apple releases a "console" with lesser power and price. Or Samsung. I mean average non gamer family will not drop the money for a PS4 or XBO, other solutions will rise in my opinion in the following year(s)

We now know:

1) Steam/Valve will be releasing a Game Console this year that also streams media.
2) Amazon is going to release a Game Console in 2014 that also streams media.
3) Apple is going to release a update to it's Apple TV that will also play games in 2014.
4) Samsung had plans to team with Gaikai to stream games to it's Smart TVs.
5) Google, Apple and Samsung have plans to use their handheld (Phones) to stream games to TVs.

I go back to the OP title: Game Consoles to replace Cable boxes and the connected home starts in 2014...the reasoning applies to all Set Top Boxes powerful enough to handle 4K video and HEVC Codec can also be powerful enough to play games for a few dollars more. The primary purpose of these devices (Except for the Steam Box) is to stream media (DLNA CVP2) and function as a STB in the near term in rooms other than the living room and in the long term (2+ years) with X5 Headless media gateways in the Living room.

Qualcomm Snapdragon 805 official: Ultra HD playback at head

http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1we9wr/amazons_rumored_android_console_may_be_more/ said:
Unfortunately, when I hear "Android console" I think about OUYA. But this time it might be a completely different thing, not only with high quality core games, but also amazing graphics.
1.) Amazon has an AAA game dev studio with very talented developers:
Gears of War and Quantum Break executive producer David Holmes
Valve's veteran Tom Leonard (he workded on Source 2.0 engine before he jumped ship)
people who worked on games like Thief, System Shock 2, Half Life 2, Left for Dead, Age of Empires, Halo, Forza, Call of Duty and Bioshock
2.) Amazon has a giant servers infrastructure dedicated to cloud computing and is very serious about streaming: Amazon AppStream - a flexible, low-latency service that lets you stream resource intensive applications and games from the cloud.
VG247: The system will compete directly with Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, offering the streaming and download of games.

Oppo · Jan 30, 2014

So... bumping the thread, 'cause I noticed this, and thought of our good buddy Mr. Rigby...

Rogers is launching it's "Netflix competitor" called Anyplace TV.. just got the junk mail about it.

Anyways I click over because I wondered about this service, and I cannot help but notice the "supported device list":

Rogers Anyplace TV is a unique service that gives you many different ways to remotely watch your favourite shows, sporting events, movies and more whether its on your computer, tablet, smartphones and/or Xbox (One and 360), you can bring your television with you wherever you are, whenever you want!

The actual officially supported device list is:

Windows
Mac OS X
iOS (phone and tablet)
Android (phone and tablet)
LG Smart TV
Xbox 360 & Xbox One
"more to come"

Not sure if it totally dovetails with what Jeff was posting but it sure seems like it.

As a PS4 owning, cable-cutting, Netflix-subscribing dude, I am unruffled.

Reallink · Jan 31, 2014

MS fucked up so bad around '08 not getting completely behind WMC, money hatting WMC apps, launching a marketing onslaught, and producing an official MS branded Cable Card tuner and/or very affordable HTPC set top. DVR was really hitting critical mass, the set top boxes in rotation were worse than awful, and people hated paying the rental and DVR fees (before cable co's started masking the fees in bundles). That was a much better opportunity to own the living room than any Xbox would (or will) be.

Daknight · Jan 31, 2014

Just wondering, would the Wii U benefit from this? I probably will use this on the PS3. But if this somehow works on the Wii U for streaming on the gamepad...that would be sweet!

I doubt the Wii U is DLNA though so that dream of mine is dead most likely, but it would had been nice. Still glad I never got the joey from Dish (it was 7 dollars extra per month O_O). Can't wait for this to launch...kind of tired connecting my laptop each time I want to watch something in the other room while wife is seeing her shows xP

jeff_rigby · Jan 31, 2014

Daknight said:
Just wondering, would the Wii U benefit from this? I probably will use this on the PS3. But if this somehow works on the Wii U for streaming on the gamepad...that would be sweet!

I doubt the Wii U is DLNA though so that dream of mine is dead most likely, but it would had been nice. Still glad I never got the joey from Dish (it was 7 dollars extra per month O_O). Can't wait for this to launch...kind of tired connecting my laptop each time I want to watch something in the other room while wife is seeing her shows xP

Yes, the WiiU will also support DLNA CVP 2.

From Jethead:

 Sony PlayStation®3 Development
 Microsoft Xbox-360 Development
 Nintendo Wii-U Development

Everyone will want to support DLNA CVP 2 as it is an open standard that allows/supports the "Connected Home". The traditional Netflix or Hulu IPTV, for example, is a subset of CVP2. If you have a software stack that can support DLNA CVP2 you can support Hulu. Netflix recently changed their Client engine UI from HTML5 to a game engine/native which requires the same support WebGL requires.

http://gigaom.com/2013/11/12/netflix-ditches-webkit-to-roll-out-slick-new-ui-for-smart-tvs-roku-boxes-and-game-consoles/ said:
The new UI will be available on Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4 as well as Roku 3 devices and newer smart TVs and Blu-ray players (2013 and 2014 models) to Netflix members worldwide in the next two weeks. Other devices, including some older Roku players, will receive the update over the coming months. There are no plans to bring the new UI to Apple TV and Xbox One.

Korezo · Jan 31, 2014

Is this always online cable? No cable with no internet? Or is it just a future app companies coming out with where subscribers put there info and get access to their cable anywhere on any device?

jeff_rigby · Jan 31, 2014

Korezo said:
Is this always online cable? No cable with no internet? Or is it just a future app companies coming out with where subscribers put there info and get access to their cable anywhere on any device?

I'm going to guess you are asking about DLNA CVP2.

Its a combination of multiple Open source standards and one DRM standard.

The UI is HTML5 and the HTML5 <video> player is used for streaming. It includes DASH support and has DRM hooks that can use Playready as well as other DRM. DLNA CVP2 also includes UPnP and DLNA + DTCP-IP which uses a subset of Playready. The W3C is/has adding to HTML5 Webkit support for WebGL, RTC and other features that will be used on platforms that support DLNA CVP2.

DLNA CVP2 can be used to support in home media streaming from a DVR cable box or the traditional Cloud served Hulu for example. The long term model (by 2020) is a IPTV Media gateway using DOCSIS 3.1 with a 10 Gbit down and 1 Gbit up. The Comcast X1 DVRs are a short term solution being used with DOCSIS 3.0 cable modems.

The Software stack being used by CableLabs is/will be a Gnome Mobile - GTK webkit. Sony is using the APIs for GTK webkit2 and I think the APIs for Gstreamer but not Gstreamer it'self because to do so would require them to disclose changes they make and the ability for users to rewrite and change code in the PS3 for instance.

Jethead is using C+ and Python to write applications. Python is a Gnome engine as is Mono which is what Playstation Mobile or Playstation Suite uses. Mono has a license and can be a commercial product that doesn't require the same disclosure Gstreamer requires.

jeff_rigby · Feb 4, 2014

More on DLNA CVP2 and HTML5.

From this 2011 W3C PDF and this 2012 TW Cable PDF , The DLNA CVP2 is a HTML5 Javascript application that uses APIs to the native DLNA and UPnP stack to discover a URL advertised on the network by the Cable DVR. The URL points to an address that can locally serve media and guides or from a cloud server via the DOCSIS modem. This is how CVP2 can support both local and cloud IPTV.

The W3C HTML5 is missing critical components to support DLNA CVP2 at this time. The Cable Labs HTML5 RUI reference build (Client and Server) includes:

rygel DLNA server Named after the Dominar in the Farscape SF series.
Updated 11 hours ago

server-ingest
Updated 2 days ago

webkit
This repository adds CableLabs code to WebKit to enable features required for support of commercial video.
Updated 4 days ago

gst-plugins-bad
Updated elements submitted to the GStreamer project
Updated 4 days ago

gst-plugins-good
Updated elements submitted to the GStreamer project
Updated 5 days ago

mod_dtcpip_auth
DTCP authorization module for the Apache 2 HTTP server
Updated 11 days ago

QtRUIBrowser
Updated 25 days ago

cvp2-scripts
Updated a month ago

dleyna-server
forked from 01org/dleyna-server dleyna-server is a library for implementing services that allow clients to discover, browse and manipulate Digital Media Servers. An implementation of such a service for linux is also included.
Updated a month ago

dleyna-renderer
forked from 01org/dleyna-renderer dleyna-renderer is a library for implementing services that allow clients to discover and manipulate Digital Media Renderers. An implementation of such a service for linux is also included
Updated a month ago

dleyna-connector-dbus
forked from 01org/dleyna-connector-dbus
Updated a month ago

dleyna-core
forked from 01org/dleyna-core dleyna-core is a library of utility functions that are used by the higher level dLeyna libraries that communicate with DLNA devices, e.g., dleyna-server. In brief, it provides APIs for logging, error, settings and task management and an IPC abstraction API.
Updated a month ago

qtbase
forked from qtproject/qtbase
Updated a month ago

mp4v2
Branch of mp4v2 from https://code.google.com/p/mp4v2/downloads/detail?name=mp4v2-2.0.0.tar.bz2&can=2&q=
Updated a month ago

My understanding now is that there will be a native language Pixel accurate DLNA Renderer like we have on the PS3 and a HTML5 Javascript APP on the XMB that will call the PS3 DLNA and UPnP native libraries to discover an advertised URL that points to an address that must be accessed using a DOCSIS cable modem that returns a HTML5 guide. This allows traditional IPTV or DLNA IPTV but the overall control is via a Javascript APP.

http://www.w3.org/TR/gamepad/

Vashetti · Feb 4, 2014

jeff_rigby · Feb 6, 2014

Hindsight; with the proper key words you can find the work that's been done to support HTML 5 and Web TV (DLNA CVP 2). Since CVP 2 is a Javascript application it needs APIs to control the following:

Home Networking Task Force Teleconference 02 Aug 2011

TV Querying and Control
Time Synchronization (ISSUE-21)
Lip-Sync Accuracy Time Synchronisation (ISSUE-22)
UPnP/DLNA ecosystem support (ISSUE-23)
Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Media Player (ISSUE-26)
Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Media Server (ISSUE-27)
Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Media Controller (ISSUE-28)
Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Record Controller (ISSUE-29)
Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Device Controller (ISSUE-30)
Next steps
CableLabs Simplified Home Networking API Proposal

Web and TV Interest Group was started Feb 2011 after the FCC (2010) passed a Cable TV mandate (2007 CEA-2014) to take place June 2014. CEA-2014 (Bitmapped Menu) became CEA-2014B (HTML5) 2011

The Web and TV Interest Group encourages active participation from a diverse community. You should consider participating in this Interest Group, in particular if you are in one of the following communities:

Vendors of Web Browsers which have TV related capability
TV broadcasters and TV service providers
TV and set-top boxes manufacturers
Companies that own solutions for the development of broadcasting, Web+TV and integration of them
Companies seeking to exploit integration of broadcasting and Web technologies
Software vendors or open source projects that currently offer XML-based languages for the description of handling broadcasting, or customers of those languages
Government organizations seeking to standardize the integration of broadcasting and Web technologies
Academic researchers with an interest in smarter integration of Web technologies, broadcasting and non-PC devices

phosphor112 · Feb 6, 2014

jeff_rigby said:
Hindsight; with the proper key words you can find the work that's been done to support HTML 5 and Web TV (DLNA CVP 2). Since CVP 2 is a Javascript application it needs APIs to control the following:

Home Networking Task Force Teleconference 02 Aug 2011

Web and TV Interest Group was started Feb 2011 after the FCC (2010) passed a Cable TV mandate (2007 CEA-2014) to take place June 2014. CEA-2014 (Bitmapped Menu) became CEA-2014B (HTML5) 2011

I don't think you've mentioned this yet, (you may have, and maybe I missed it), but what on your thoughts on the PS4 UI running 100% in HTML5? The OS is obviously not, but the whole UI is, and has the best HTML5 benchmarks out of all the consoles.

mitchman · Feb 6, 2014

phosphor112 said:
I don't think you've mentioned this yet, (you may have, and maybe I missed it), but what on your thoughts on the PS4 UI running 100% in HTML5? The OS is obviously not, but the whole UI is, and has the best HTML5 benchmarks out of all the consoles.

You seem to mix the web browser with the UI. The UI is Sony's own port of Webkit, while the webbrowser is Access Netfront's port of Webkit. For instance, the web browser does not support WebGL, which the UI uses extensively.

cripterion · Feb 6, 2014

Could see that happening fairly soon in the US but out here in Europe? Hmmm

drproton · Feb 6, 2014

and one standard DRM scheme (not open source and sometime in 2011 Microsoft's Playready DRM was chosen).

Man I was excited about this, but never heard about this part until now.

A real kick in the nuts to *nix users.

phosphor112 · Feb 6, 2014

mitchman said:
You seem to mix the web browser with the UI. The UI is Sony's own port of Webkit, while the webbrowser is Access Netfront's port of Webkit. For instance, the web browser does not support WebGL, which the UI uses extensively.

Oh shit, it is using WebGL. Don't know why I was thinking HTML5. But.. why does the browser not support webgl?

jeff_rigby · Feb 6, 2014

mitchman said:
You seem to mix the web browser with the UI. The UI is Sony's own port of Webkit, while the webbrowser is Access Netfront's port of Webkit. For instance, the web browser does not support WebGL, which the UI uses extensively.

It's easy to confuse the terms. The PS3, Vita and PS4 use webkit with Gnome GTK+ APIs and a Access Netfront front end that uses the GTK+ APIs and GUI toolbox (GTK Chrome) rewritten and named POSIX Chrome. The Front end is what we see for the Browser UI but the browser is based on webkit. We know from the PS4 UI developer that the PS4 is using WebGL for the XMB but so do the accelerated Webkit calls. In any case it's likely that CairoGL is being used to support Webkit and the PS4 UI.

It's assumed not all WebGL and accelerated webkit APIs for GTKwebkit2 have been ported to the PS3 or PS4. The PS3 XMB used OpenVG and XML which was also used for the PS3 browser till Firmware 4.01 when it changed to Cairo-EGL. The PS4 UI likely CairoGL and XML. XML is a subset of one of the support libraries (XML2) for HTML5.

We do know that the PS4 will eventually support a HTML5 DLNA CVP2 app. So we can guess that DLNA & UPnP native routines will be running all the time **, OpenGL, Webkit with GTK HTML5 APIs and native support libraries similar to or using Gnome Mobile APIs (CairoGL and some player that supports Gstreamer APIs) will be resident in memory at all times.

Sony could support a browser desktop allowing a app to open a HTML5 window on the XMB.....The infrastructure is there with a WebGL UI.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-PS4-UI-Is-Built-Using-WebGL-a-Web-3D-Graphics-Technology-400937.shtml said:
The software side is where it counts, and Sony's Don Olmstead is revealing an interesting tidbit, namely that the entire UI is based on WebGL, the 3D graphics browser technology. "When you login to your PS4 you are running #WebGL code. The PlayStation Store, the Music and Video Applications, as well as a good chunk of UX are all rendered within the browser," he explained.

Note ** DLNA CVP 2 requires both HTML5 with webGL and DLNA resident which is why the blow up over DLNA not in the PS4 was a non issue. Gaikai (Playstation Now) may require Javascript calling Java and my guess is a Media call to WebRTC for the h.264 streaming so the PS4 beta will be with a app.

mitchman · Feb 7, 2014

jeff_rigby said:
Sony could support a browser desktop allowing a app to open a HTML5 window on the XMB.....The infrastructure is there with a WebGL UI.

Yes, but I think it's unlikely at this point until WebGL is more established and any shader verification issues are "guarenteed" to not happen. Shader verification, and holes in it, would be a potential security issue on the PS4, more so than on Windows Vista and higher. At least on Windows, the OS will just reset the driver if a shader takes too long to run. I doubt that's the case with the PS4, so I guess they will hold off on it a bit.

Additionally, allowing WebGL (in the browser at least) would open up for competing games in a ecosystem Sony does not control.

Thanks for the other toolkit info, I've worked on one of the major browsers for 10 years, but I didn't know all the technicalities of the various ports to PS

jeff_rigby · Feb 7, 2014

mitchman said:
Yes, but I think it's unlikely at this point until WebGL is more established and any shader verification issues are "guarenteed" to not happen. Shader verification, and holes in it, would be a potential security issue on the PS4, more so than on Windows Vista and higher. At least on Windows, the OS will just reset the driver if a shader takes too long to run. I doubt that's the case with the PS4, so I guess they will hold off on it a bit.

Additionally, allowing WebGL (in the browser at least) would open up for competing games in a ecosystem Sony does not control.

Thanks for the other toolkit info, I've worked on one of the major browsers for 10 years, but I didn't know all the technicalities of the various ports to PS

Good points, my knowledge is very narrow and limited to not much more than I have posted on NeoGAF. Issues exist for the PS3 until a refresh with a major hardware change I think is coming but have you looked at the PS4 hardware design? Sony has the second custom chip with it's own memory to do IPTV DRM and the secure boot. It appears from the design, and this is just a guess, that WebGL applications using the AMD APU can't impact the OS in the second custom chip and that OS is in charge of the root of trust boot and can also verify the routines running in the AMD APU have not been changed.

Correct me if I get this wrong: Sony will be supporting WebMAF apps just as Google does on Android platforms. The App code and resources are stored on a server and run as a web page on the PS4 and PS3. Some apps can have resources stored on the PS4 (second tier) and some apps can be native & HTML5 but require authorization (DRM key) from Sony (third tier) to be installed on the PS4. WebGL will be supported as it's required for CVP2 certification.

DLNA CVP2 is a common standard and because everyone will support that standard, it opens up the entire CE industry to supporting those standards...this is the start of the connected home and HTML5 + bluetooth 4.0 is part of this.

The above is why just about everyone is releasing a Game Console/STB this year. I can't stress enough that it's a revolution that impacts everything. WebGL is necessary and Microsoft will for the first time support WebGL with their browsers starting with Windows 8.1 IE 11

I'm excited by WebRTC, WebGL - Games and more that you may know about.

jeff_rigby · Feb 14, 2014

Legacy and HTML5 Remote Desktop Protocol differences need to be understood. The PS4 is using a WebGL desktop and the PS3 is using XML/OpenVG Pixman which is a subset of a browser and can easily be streamed as HTML5. If the PS3 is to display DLNA CVP2 from the XMB then the XMB needs to have the HTML5 browser stack in memory making the XMB a HTML5 desktop. There are memory and security issues with the current version of the PS3 that may limit this. I'm guessing there will be a PS3 refresh and it will also be a Media Hub similar in features to the PS4 (same for a Xbox 360 refresh and confirmed in rumors if they are accurate.) which will likely mean they will also have HTML5 desktops.

In the 4/2010 Xbox 720 powerpoint is this on Game streaming: Start and play your favorite Xbox games from other devices like Phones and PCs with RemoteFX technology. Nvidia Grid is using a form of RemoteFX technology and Gaikai is/was using Nvidia Grid. Nvidia Grid uses virtual GPUs to allow dynamic GPU loads, 8 or so VGPUs are run on one large GPU and multiple video frame buffers are created with each video buffer address range assigned a hardware encoder to stream to the client.

1) RemoteFX uses a virtual GPU Via [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-V"]Hyper-V in XB1. <you have to specify the Remote Display Protocol (RDP) version #>
2) RemoteFX USB Redirection:
3) RemoteFX Codec:[/URL]

Needed for Legacy (older Windows programs on older OS) are:

RemoteFX RDP8 uses a patented scheme to differentiate video and text and uses a loss less compression for text and h.264 for everything else. Other third party RDP protocols intercept APIs for text and critical graphics and send those as DirectX or OpenGL commands while video is compressed h.264. These protocols require client support and are not an open source standard while a HTML5 browser is an open source standard.

Remote Desktop Protocol with a HTML5 desktop does not need RDP8 and the PS4 (webGL) and all other hubs serving DLNA CVP2 will serve a HTML5 menu and will probably use a HTML5 desktop. This should include the XB1 and future refreshes of the PS3 and Xbox 360. 100% HTML5 browser used for RDP.

Nvidia using 100% browser in the following:

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/11/15/streamed-not-installed/ said:
Amazon Web Services launched its G2 graphics instances based on NVIDIA GRID technology
OTOY released ORBX, software that sits on top of a G2 instance and enables any application to be streamed to your browser
Autodesk said it’s testing with OTOY the streaming of a suite of workstation apps to a browser using the NVIDIA GRID-based G2 instance Playcast deployed its cloud gaming system to the AWS G2 instance and demonstrated Warner Bros’s “Batman: Arkham City” video game streamed to your smart TV
Mainframe2 demonstrated Adobe Photoshop running on NVIDIA GRID at AWS and streamed to a browser Amazon announced AppStream, an in-house software for streaming apps

The following Xbox slide is talking about Xbox DLNA CVP2 Local and/or Cloud served media and the same for games (If the game can be streamed to your phone and other OpenGL platforms without a Microsoft client plugin then it's using a DLNA CVP2 browser.) Start and Play requires the DLNA UPnP for discovery then the native DLNA server or HTML5 <video> player to play streaming media or games. If the XB1 is to be a media HUB, it has to use the DLNA CVP2 open source standards so why the mention of a Proprietary Microsoft standard that would need a plugin? I'll guess marketing types made up the slide or they were thinking of the 2007 CEA-2014 bitmapped Remote View not the Jan 2011 CEA-2014B which uses HTML5. Remember this powerpoint was developed 4/2010 and CEA-2014B was released Jan 2011.

Playcast Cloud gaming as a TV channel on Cable TV (Subset of DLNA CVP2).

11/2010 Microsoft’s secret plans for RemoteFX: Azure-based desktops, apps, and Xbox games from the cloud?

It appears that all RVU smart TVs (DLNA CVP2) can display streamed games (to this point all announced can). So far we have Samsung, LG, Sony and Toshiba announcing Client support for this and multiple companies announcing Game streaming servers. There are a number of Game Console STBs that have also announced game streaming.

And here is the final word at least for Cloud streaming games: It's to any HTML5 browser with the caveat that not all browsers support it at this time. From one of the companies mentioned as supporting Nvidia Grid, they have language that confirms the HTML5 browser in DLNA CVP2 will support Game streaming. Gaikai required/requires Java and that is part of DLNA CVP2 also. Since the PS4, PS3 and XB1 have a Blu-ray player, they have Java.

Edit: I'd suggest everyone again look through the Xbox 720 powerpoint after reading about and with an understanding of DLNA CVP2; notice that most of the powerpoint is talking about features that will be available using DLNA CVP2 or the software stack it requires.

jeff_rigby · Feb 21, 2014

Found some new cool keywords:

Rust => Servo => Firefox

Samsung teams up with Mozilla to build a faster and more secure browser engine for multicore machines

I wouldn't think this is interesting but Firefox is built using Gnome GTK cross platform libraries (Same as the PS3 and PS4) and According to two posts Sony will be using WebMAF apps on the PS3 and Sony is going to use the Firefox OS in several phones.

jeff_rigby · Mar 20, 2014

The DLNA org. has published a white paper on the release of the DLNA CVP2 guidelines.

http://www.dlna.org/docs/default-so...scription-tv-content-in-the-home.pdf?sfvrsn=6

The DLNA Guidelines include 10 parts that focus on interoperability between networked devices for the sharing of pictures, music and videos. The 2014 release expanded the Guidelines to include the sharing of subscription TV content using CVP-2.

jeff_rigby · Mar 22, 2014

Kaizer83 said:
Posted by ‏@Envisager Communiity Manager on twitter just now:

Exciting new features coming soon!(PS4 FW 1.70)
-HDCP off
-Export captures to USB
-Rich media video editor
720P Streams in the works

What is Rich Media video editor? At first I thought video editor including meta data editing. But Wiki and others say it's more...an interactive HTML5 and or Java video. "According to Wikipedia, rich media is "a broad range of interactive digital media that exhibit dynamic motion, taking advantage of enhanced sensory features such as video, audio and animation."

One of the first things mentioned by Sony when they were introducing FIrmware 3.0 was "once video is digitized it can be manipulated" and Firmware 3.0 was all about HTML5 <video> which in webkit is generally gstreamer (the video player) bindings with Cairo which allows manipulation of the video. There were some Sony (AR demos) by Marks around the same time that I can't find.

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2014/03/ps4_firmware_update_170_enhances_share_and_shuts_down_hdcp said:
In addition to being able to export your screenshots and videos to a USB stick, the Japanese giant is also adding a new video editor tool which will allow you to personalise your clips. It’s not clear what you’ll actually be able to do, but titles and filters seem likely.

Article from 2011 describing a video editor using HTML5 <video>.

https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-file/tip/streams/StreamProcessing.html

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebRTC/MediaStream_API

http://www.slideshare.net/robman/mediastream-processing-pipelines-on-the-augmented-web-platform

http://html5video.org/blog/2012/09/22/foms-workshop-and-the-state-of-open-web-video/

WebRTC aims to deliver real time communication to the browser and encompeses a few diffrent apis and technologies; getUserMedia , MediaStream, PeerConnection and DataChannel. Together they will enable powerful new peer to peer applications; everything from video chat to real-time in browser multi-player gaming [ gamestreaming (Twitch, PS Now, Nvidia GameStream, Onlive)].

media processing use cases ( playlists, video editors, live audio filters, gapless ad insertion etc ). Mozilla has backed the more complete MediaStream Processing API, and has a few working demos.

Summary:
1) The PS4 has a WebGL (browser desktop) UI
2) WebRTC provides the (APIs) tools for HTML5 Video editing and then Augmented Reality.
3) The PS4 already supports Twitch and update 1.70 includes a Video editor and new features for Twitch (Playstation Live). A Rich Video Editor if using the Wiki description, can be using some of the features coming with AR (Overlays, filters, video window warping, substituting one face for another).

We should expect Sony has a Roadmap of features planned for the PS4 and those features will be implemented based on the state of HTML5 API releases and for example, industry standards like the FCC push for analog Phone to Internet Protocol which will impact Skype/chat.

DLNA CVP2 includes ad insertion which requires at least parts of WebRTC. Video editing if done as a HTML5 app, which I consider likely, will use WebRTC and it's logical that it could be implemented (No dependencies on other technologies or coming standards) before DLNA CVP2 or Video Chat.

June (FCC Mandate for DLNA CVP2 to be implemented by Cable companies for DVRs) and Dish has announced for Spring 2014, PS3 and PS4 CVP2 (apps) which may not require the PS4 software stack to fully support it just as Netflix 10/2010 didn't require using the PS3 software stack. It will require access to the WebRTC media stream APIs and Trustzone processor which I think Sony will allow with Playready DRM APIs.

jeff_rigby · Mar 23, 2014

 HbbTV 2.0 Proposed Features (specification likely to be finalized Q2 2014) = April-June 2014 = FCC Mandate for Cable TV (DLNA CVP2) June 2014
o Improved support for HTML5.
o Companion screen app launching and synchronization.
o Push VOD support.
o Improved support for ad insertion.
o Improved synchronization between media and applications.
o Support for HEVC video.
o Improved support for MPEG DASH.

Over The Air ATSC 2.0 US FCC provides many of the HbbTV features and in the US may use a DLNA Media Hub like Cable TV DLNA CVP2 uses.

Open MediaHub

The Open MediaHub architecture combines the strengths of broadcast delivery with standard Internet delivery technologies. The intent of the MediaHub is to provide a central, transparent mechanism for supplying high-quality broadcast content to any device connected to the home network. A key component of the Open MediaHub is a content caching mechanism that is an important concept in the overall architecture.

The Open MediaHub can perform other ATSC 2.0 receiver functions that are advantageous in a central network location. Primary among these is extracting and forwarding trigger information.

The MediaHub design, shown in Illustration 1, contains a terrestrial broadcast receiver (Data Receiver) and an Internet connection (WAN). Central to the design is the Transparent Proxy that manages how content access requests from the various devices connected to the Home Network (LAN) are fulfilled.

The Open MediaHub modules can operate on any type of hardware and can be distributed throughout the home network. The PS4 design will likely support being a Open MediaHub for OTA and Cable. One Module for OTA will be a Sony Nanse or HD Homerun DLNA Tuner and for Cable a DLNA DVR box. If a HD Homerun DLNA server is used, it doesn't have the ability to record the NRT transmission so the Smart TV must or if you don't have a smart TV then using the PS4, it must record the NRT which I think is one of the non-game uses for the 256Meg DDR3 attached to the Second Custom chip.

Blanquito · Apr 15, 2014

Thanks again for the info, Jeff. Combining what I think I've learned from this thread and the PSNow thread you created, a hypothetical PS3 remake would be able to do all of this DLNA/ cable box / game streaming stuff, since it potentially would include an ARM secondary chip?

Also, you mentioned Samba support for diskless consoles (at least, I hope I read that correctly) to access local storage in use for DVR functions. Is there a possibility that games could be installed to the NAS storage and use the DLNA DRM to ensure that it is authentic and playable, without having to install the game on the local disk drive?

If so, I know that there would be a factor of latency involved with accessing the NAS storage, but how much would that affect games?

Hopefully some of these questions make sense... sorry if they don't.

Mr. Wonderful · Apr 16, 2014

I really only see this technology as a way for cable companies to further entrench themselves in our homes and ensure their continued relevancy.

Sort of like Comcast giving modems with crappy wireless routers built-in by default now, that they plan on making accessible to anyone with a Comcast account, so everyone (with a Comcast account) can steal your Internet and increase your wireless traffic.

Reading through any of the newer ATSC specifications makes it immediately clear who these improvements are really for (advertisers and the cable companies).

jeff_rigby · Apr 18, 2014

China launch of XB1 set for July, details of Microsoft's joint venture with BesTV emerge.

The Chinese government announced plans to relax its decade-long console ban in September last year. So far, Microsoft has been more aggressive than both Sony and Nintendo in its plans for the new market.

Sep 24, 2013 - Microsoft established the joint venture with BesTV, a local (Shanghai) provider of Internet television services.

Leading Cable Provider Brings Next-Generation TV Experience to Shanghai China.

Microsoft is teaming up with Shanghai-based BesTV New Media to form an entertainment-based joint venture.

Korea, Japan and some parts of China (Shanghai BesTV) are ahead of the US in the move to the all IPTV cable model.

This helps (July launch of Shanghai BesTV - XB1) but doesn't confirm a XB1 firmware update supporting DLNA CVP2 by June when it's been known since 2010 that the FCC was mandating RVU 1.0 updated to RVU 2.0 (DLNA CVP2) for Dec 2012 delayed to June 2 2014 by a TiVo suit. E3 is June 10.

jeff_rigby · Apr 18, 2014

Blanquito said:
Thanks again for the info, Jeff. Combining what I think I've learned from this thread and the PSNow thread you created, a hypothetical PS3 remake would be able to do all of this DLNA/ cable box / game streaming stuff, since it potentially would include an ARM secondary chip?

Also, you mentioned Samba support for diskless consoles (at least, I hope I read that correctly) to access local storage in use for DVR functions. Is there a possibility that games could be installed to the NAS storage and use the DLNA DRM to ensure that it is authentic and playable, without having to install the game on the local disk drive?

If so, I know that there would be a factor of latency involved with accessing the NAS storage, but how much would that affect games?

Hopefully some of these questions make sense... sorry if they don't.

Got it in one and latency especially for systems that have the Network Hard Disk sleeping will be an issue but what do you expect for "Cheap" game consoles without a hard disk or optical disk. <grin>. Playready supports media (Games included) DRM and can support:

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7547 said:
Early 2011 Sony announced that they were going with Microsoft's Playready DRM. Microsoft’s PlayReady page shows that Sony can allow users to download movies and begin watching them instantly, stream media to devices around the home (Using DTCP-IP and DLNA), and even side-load content from, say, a PC (XB1 and PS4 too?) to continue watching on their mobile device.

A version of side loading content is what we are discussing in games being run from the Network Drive or a Windows 8.1 platform or XB1 or PS4.

Louis Cyphre · Apr 18, 2014

Breemin said:
With my cable provider I need to use their box no matter what I put in front of it. That's another reason I don't have an Xbox one. I already have too many boxes in my entertainment center.

I choose PS4 simply because I only want a gaming console with none of the cable TV fluff.

The XBox One has an HDMI input, unlike the PS4, so you can use other boxes right?

Kazuma Kiryu · Apr 18, 2014

jeff_rigby said:
E3 is July 10.

Am I reading this right, you mean E3, as in, Electronic Entertainment Expo? Because it's not July 10, it's June 10-12.

jeff_rigby · Apr 18, 2014

Kazuma Kiryu said:
Am I reading this right, you mean E3, as in, Electronic Entertainment Expo? Because it's not July 10, it's June 10-12.

Sorry, misread or remembered. FCC mandate is June 2, 2014 and E3 is June 10, 2014. Xbox1 released in Shanghai China is July 2014.

The announcement may be at Showstoppers which is held at the same convention center as E3 on the same date.

Blanquito · Apr 22, 2014

jeff_rigby said:
Got it in one and latency especially for systems that have the Network Hard Disk sleeping will be an issue but what do you expect for "Cheap" game consoles without a hard disk or optical disk. <grin>. Playready supports media (Games included) DRM and can support:

A version of side loading content is what we are discussing in games being run from the Network Drive or a Windows 8.1 platform or XB1 or PS4.

Thanks again Jeff, very enlightening (even if it never happens, but it would be nice if it did). Considering that it is possible, and assuming that it happens, that would mean that there would have to be a way for that network drive to access/download digital games from each company's online store.

Would they make, say, a PlayStation branded network drive that is capable of that? Or maybe, in addition, have that network drive with a blu-ray player on it that can install the games from the disk as well?

Anyway, interesting stuff to think about.

jeff_rigby · May 12, 2014

Blanquito said:
Thanks again Jeff, very enlightening (even if it never happens, but it would be nice if it did). Considering that it is possible, and assuming that it happens, that would mean that there would have to be a way for that network drive to access/download digital games from each company's online store.

Would they make, say, a PlayStation branded network drive that is capable of that? Or maybe, in addition, have that network drive with a blu-ray player on it that can install the games from the disk as well?

Anyway, interesting stuff to think about.

They might but it shouldn't be needed. Video or game is encrypted by DRM software (Playready (sideloaded for a specific platform) or WMDRM10 (DTCP-IP) for the home network only) before being saved to a Samba network Drive. Samba drives have permission/user levels. The game or video can only be un-encrypted on the DRM authorized (Certified) platform.

Video can be a IPTV stream from a DLNA CVP2 DVR as the FCC requires that TV IP streams be in a format that can be recordable by CE platform. The video file contains Metadata managed by DRM that describes how the encrypted content can be used and for how long. From what I have read, the DRM requires a certified platform and a user ID logged into a platform. A user can be logged into several platforms in the home at the same time. This is similar to the Netflix model but the less secure DLNA DRM (DTCP-IP WMDRM10) is limited to the home local network (IP address check, Latency ping test etc.)

Notice plugged into the Cable TV gateway box is a USB drive and on the left the description is a Browser based file management for the Samba drive which allows remote access to personal files. ANY encrypted by DRM files won't work outside the home network (DTCP-IP) and Playready DRM encrypted files are only streamed from Playready servers with contracts for support by Microsoft azure servers. .

jeff_rigby · Aug 21, 2014

In April of 2014 the FCC granted an extension from June 2014 to June 2015 for the mandate on Cable TV STB output to conform with DLNA CVP2.

It is currently expected that Certification starts September 2014 and the first products will enter the market 4th quarter 2014 or likely November 2014. Mandated June 2015, all Large Cable companies must provide DLNA CVP2 output from Cable TV boxes that have two way capability and/or DVR ability.

Just as with Direct TV and RVU, I expect cable companies see this as an opportunity to differentiate themselves and keep people from Cable Cutting or expand the number of customers using premium services.

DLNA Webinar

This might explain leaks saying PS4 DLNA support would come early 2015 rather than in time for November 2014..... CVP2 certification requires power modes and AOAC which have also not been implemented by the PS4. Power modes are not supported by the Xbox 360 and the PS3 only has a wake from Network standby mode with IPTV requiring 80 some watts which exceeds US and EU recommendations which will likely become mandates.

serversurfer · Aug 21, 2014

jeff_rigby said:
In April of 2014 the FCC granted an extension from June 2014 to June 2015 for the mandate on Cable TV STB output to conform with DLNA CVP2.

BOOOOooooo!!

As always, thanks for the updates, Jeff. <3

jeff_rigby · Aug 22, 2014

serversurfer said:
BOOOOooooo!!

As always, thanks for the updates, Jeff. <3

My feeling too. Are Amazon Fire, HomeOne, Apple TV, Google TV, Nvidia Game console and others going to be selling this season and will they mention their additional use as a DLNA CVP2 STB with cable companies that likely will start before June 2015 when they are forced by the FCC to stream IPTV DLNA served from their Two way Cable boxes and DVRs.

June 2015 puts DLNA CVP2 between selling seasons Nov-Dec 2014 and 2015. If others feel that DLNA CVP2 is a feature worth advertising then will Microsoft and Sony mention support for this or implement DLNA before 2015?

What's coming; 3-Network Convergence policy (Phone, Internet and TV served as IPTV) and next-generation broadcasting (NRT, Blu-ray codec and XTV) with AOAC, power modes and hardware encoder and decoder support....Supports Skype and Home automation which is also in the DLNA CVP2 software stack.

Just shown at a China Game show is the Home One: ChinaJoy "eedoo" gaming system uses an AMD embedded G-series SOC:

Notice the HomeOne name similar to the Xbox One or Comcast X1 name, wifi antenna, Keyboard and 3D camera/array microphone. If it's a AMD G series SoC it has Embedded ARM, IO and can likely be a certified DLNA CVP2 platform with TEE level security.

"APU-powered hardware is mated with software from leaders like Adobe®, Bluestacks, eyeSight™, Microsoft, our ARM TrustZone® partners"

Adobe Flash Codec UVD controlled by the Arm Trustzone processor
eyesight = software based (CPU) middleware for gesture recognition also used in Android phones and Tablets as well as iOS using ARM CPUs.
Bluestacks Android emulation under Windows but it also uses the ARM Trustzone in AMD APUs and SoCs natively for UVD, eyesight and applications that require ARM trustzone DRM
Windows calls/uses the ARM processor for video encode/decode, DRM, eyesight, and in some cases (mullins) trusted boot. AOAC too?

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://server.zdnet.com.cn/server/2014/0804/3029226.shtml&prev=/search%3Fq%3DChinaJoy%2BAMD%2BHomeOne%26es_sm%3D93%20%26biw%3D1264%26bih%3D574 said:
AMD Embedded Kabini 4-core APU, 4G memory, 1T hard drive. It is worth mentioning that, AMD embedded Kabini 4-core APU using 28nm process technology, support for DirectX 11.1, and ECC memory support DDR3-1600 features, supports a variety of peripheral interfaces, clocked at up to 1.5Ghz, power (TDP) only for 15W.

HomeOne as "Super TV box" of the living room computer, the freshness of the big screen experience as the main demands of the main users, almost all Internet applications can be easily transferred to a living room scene but also as video chat, smart home, TV shopping.

TV Shopping = XTV in the US, Smart Home requires HTML5 + Java and AOAC so yes it's likely designed for DLNA CVP2.

4 GB memory and 1TB hard disk is overkill for just Browser apps, DVR recording ability? Movies and entertainment software?

China is mentioned as a market for this but with the HomeOne name in English is this also targeted for a US market?

jeff_rigby · Aug 23, 2014

New Sony Patents published: I'll try to explain what they mean..if I get it wrong please correct.

Content distribution system, content distribution method, and client terminal Method to allow sharing Videos for a trial period between the "owner" and Friend.

Method and system for receiving and processing digital content Method for caching NRT XTV web browser information based on customers past browser activity.

Information processing device and information providing method IPTV multi-chapter display with timed change of displayed chapter

Expanded playlist for TV video player An Internet TV video guide shows thumbnails of video assets available from one or more providers, and one or more of the assets may represent a playlist with two or more associated video clips. When a viewer selects a playlist asset, the thumbnail is expanded to show the individual clips so that a viewer can select a desired clip for play on the TV.

Information processing method and apparatus and information processing program A hierarchical display similar to Google Maps

Method and system for marking digital content A method for including purchasers name in the video stream. I suspect this is to track piracy.

Content reproduction system, content reproduction apparatus, program, content reproduction method, and providing content server A method for multi-streaming video from a server. The stream contains segments at differing bit-rates and depending on network status the appropriate bit-rate is chosen.

There is much more here but my head is starting to hurt. Point is that these patents are just being published now and a large percentage deal with XTV and IPTV which match the 191 jobs listing from last month so this might be some of what they are working on.

serversurfer · Aug 23, 2014

jeff_rigby said:
Information processing device and information providing method IPTV multi-chapter display with timed change of displayed chapter

Err, does that patent the idea of waiting a minute before you hit the network to load "additional details"? I'm looking at Fig. 2.

Content reproduction system, content reproduction apparatus, program, content reproduction method, and providing content server A method for multi-streaming video from a server. The stream contains segments at differing bit-rates and depending on network status the appropriate bit-rate is chosen.

That would be pretty useful for PS Now, no? Or does is this just something for pre-rendered material?

jeff_rigby · Aug 24, 2014

serversurfer said:
Content reproduction system, content reproduction apparatus, program, content reproduction method, and providing content server A method for multi-streaming video from a server. The stream contains segments at differing bit-rates and depending on network status the appropriate bit-rate is chosen.

That would be pretty useful for PS Now, no? Or does is this just something for pre-rendered material?

I don't think that would be used with PS Now. From the description it's identical to a patent from another firm for Multi-streaming.

VOD has a server for every person and the server can dynamically change the stream bit-rate (DASH) to match the network. I assume PS Now does this.

Multi-stream is used when you are trying to use the same IPTV stream for multiple people. It would be used for an event to stream to multiple people at the same time using the same stream. It's also going to be used when Cable TV goes all IPTV. Cable TV would have 80-100 channels that are multi-streamed and the rest VOD.

Shpeshal Nick · Aug 24, 2014

While I can't grasp a lot of Jeff's posts, I'll be damned if I don't love reading them and then contemplating what could be in the future.

jeff_rigby · Aug 25, 2014

Torne Software on the PS4 using a Nasne DLNA server. Free in Japan....

Nanse is a OTA and Cable TV 3 tuner DVR and DLNA server/network drive. It uses the same chipset that several of the Cable TV DLNA CVP2 gateway boxes will use and could be certified for use in the US. Price with a 500GB drive $200.

Torne software was available on the PS3 for use with Nasne. Torne contains a suite of features including EPG (Electronic Program Guide), search, schedule recording, FF-REW-Scene Select and more. If you are familiar with the PS3 DLNA player then you understand that those features are passed through to Torne on the PS3 and ON THE PS4.

Torne on the PS4 in Japan shows that the functionality to support DLNA has already been written for the PS4 including a suite of new features akin to Google TV. Torne for PS3 and PS4 is not currently available in the US but after PS4 DLNA CVP2 certification there is no reason other than economics for it not being available with Nasne in the US.

Torne on the PS4 is a native application while DLNA CVP2 is a HTML5/Java application that calls native programs (WebGL, WebRTC, DLNA, Java, Playready, WMDRM10...) that should always be resident in memory. Torne could be written as a HTML5 app when the PS4 OS is updated.

Multiple apps (iOS, Android) and the PS4 version of Torne were released June 2014. Prior to June 2014 the same functionality was only available on Sony products. http://www.jp.playstation.com/nasne/

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