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Was the Code Hero Kickstarter a scam? They claim it's not! But Tactical Corsets!!!

O

onlyindreams

Banned
...and the backers are organizing a lawsuit.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...me-that-teaches-you-to-make-games-he/comments

kinda feels like this was bound to happen with one these projects eventually. should be interesting.

Mod Edit:

border said:
The guy's previouisly failed business venture was selling Tactical Corsets:

55698d1353339452-worst-tactical-gear-idea-ever-bulletproof-corsets-4.jpg



They took a bunch of orders, never delivered any merchandise, and then promptly shut down the website.

Their Facebook TimeLine is pretty hilarious. The dude just spams non-stop about how his Code Hero Kickstarter needs support. He even has the balls to say "I will resume making Tactical Corsets once Code Hero launches."
Click to expand...


pubba said:
This posted an hour ago on the KS page

http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues
Click to expand...
 
K

kodt

Banned
Lots of us were calling this when the craze started, but all the Kickstarter defenders said that this would never happen because of protections in place.
 
G

Gravijah

Member
kodt said:
Lots of us were calling this when the craze started, but all the Kickstarter defenders said that this would never happen because of protections in place.
Click to expand...

of course it would happen. i'm sure it has happened in normal game development and it happens in many other places where people are given the ability to take money and run.
 
B

BomberMouse

Member
onlyindreams said:
...and the backers are organizing a lawsuit.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...me-that-teaches-you-to-make-games-he/comments

kinda feels like this was bound to happen with one these projects eventually. should be interesting.
Click to expand...

While sharing risk is an importan part of KS, a quick look at that KS should give everyone enough hints to not fund that project. Looks amateurish as hell and the idea is too ambitious, too vague.

Still, most of the shadiness comes from the actual dev. I once funded a project that was delayed for almost a year, I requested a refund and he did it.
 
M

Matt

Member
kodt said:
Lots of us were calling this when the craze started, but all the Kickstarter defenders said that this would never happen because of protections in place.
Click to expand...

Who said that? There are no protections, the money is a donation, and the awards are not guarantees. That has always been the case.
 
rbanke

rbanke

Member
As it stands, isn't Kickstarter basically donating money, notpreordering a product? Are donators actually guaranteed anything and if not, can a lawsuit really be successful here?
 
P

PapaJustify

Member
I guess Kickstarter will be a gold mine for lawyers very soon, focusing on all the kickstarters that don't come into being.

They should be smart and kickstart the Class Action Lawsuit!
 
D

Dark Octave

Banned
It's always been a risk and everyone who donates should know this. Nothing in this world is perfect and there is an ugly side to just about anything you can think of that's wonderful or useful, especially when people are involved.

I hope a few bad apples doesn't cause people to lose faith in honest Kickstarters who really do need the funding.
 
D

djplaeskool

Member
Wario64 said:
Are there even protections?
Click to expand...

I believe there might be certain ones provided for those who are due physical goods.
Other than that, KS is an investment, and investments don't always pay off.

Edit:
This looks very amatuerish and there seem to be doubts about those $3k+ backers.
 
Interfectum

Interfectum

Member
rbanke said:
As it stands, isn't Kickstarter basically donating money, notpreordering a product? Are donators actually guaranteed anything and if not, can a lawsuit really be successful here?
Click to expand...

Maybe if they can prove he willfully deceived them? Maybe prove some kind of fraud? I dunno...
 
F

Falxix

Member
Really curious to see how this pans out. It'll be interesting to see if the backers manage to get any kind of refund out of this.

edit: and those last minute $10k donations. Shady as shit.
 
K

kodt

Banned
Matt said:
Who said that? There are no protections, the money is a donation, and the awards are not guarantees. That has always been the case.
Click to expand...

I would have to dig up the threads but people were saying, what is to stop people from taking the money and running, or just "failing" to produce. People seemed offended by this notion. There was even a PennyArcade comic on this very issue, and that comic was heavily criticized here.

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=472798
 
X

Xater

Member
kodt said:
Lots of us were calling this when the craze started, but all the Kickstarter defenders said that this would never happen because of protections in place.
Click to expand...

What protections? There aren#t any.

My protection is trusting in vets of the industry. Most likely that it turns out well, but just in case I never back for more than the minimum that's needed to get the game.
 
H

HardRojo

Member
Orayn said:
Read a little further, they suspect the $10,000 backers were smurf accounts.
Click to expand...

My English is good but there are some words I might not understand perfectly, what is an smurf account exactly? From the context I'm guessing it's either an alternate account with no funds or an account that provides money from illegal sources?
 
RiccochetJ

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
Interfectum said:
Maybe if they can prove he willfully deceived them? Maybe prove some kind of fraud? I dunno...
Click to expand...

The creators are on the hook for the prizes. They have to show/prove that they made a good faith effort to actually fulfill them otherwise they can be subject to lawsuits.

However, there is always the chance that things could fail. People seem to forget that they're not actually buying things. They're donating to an idea. Sometimes those ideas don't pan out and your money is gone.
 
D

djplaeskool

Member
I think there was a change in the TOS to legally bind project starters to fulfilling (or refunding) rewards at the very least.

Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

creator-responsibility.png


People due rewards have legal ground to stand on if these requirements were in place when this started.
 
A

Alexlf

Member
According to the kickstarter policy:
Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
Click to expand...

So looks like there is a good foothold for a civil suit at the very least

EDIT: Beaten by djplaeskool
 
E

epmode

Member
kodt said:
Lots of us were calling this when the craze started, but all the Kickstarter defenders said that this would never happen because of protections in place.
Click to expand...

As one of the bigger Kickstarter backers on this forum, I never for a minute said that this would never happen. Obviously, it will. But it absolutely won't kill crowdfunding for videogames.
 
U

ultron87

Member
Kickstarter at no point calls it donations. The terms of service expressly say that the money you pledge is a guarantee of receiving the promised rewards or money back. When you pledge you are entering into a contract between you and the creator.
 
D

Dark Octave

Banned
kodt said:
I would have to dig up the threads but people were saying, what is to stop people from taking the money and running, or just "failing" to produce. People seemed offended by this notion. There was even a PennyArcade comic on this very issue, and that comic was heavily criticized here.

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=472798
Click to expand...
Calling that someday someone will eventually scam Kickstarter funders is like calling the fact that you will eventually bump into something if you run with your eyes closed. It's common sense and something that would eventually happen no matter what. What kind of world do you think we live in?
 
D

domlolz

Banned
Aquamarine said:
Pledges contingent on the delivery of the advertised product.

This studio could be guilty of false advertising and fraud.
Click to expand...

Kickstarter recently changed their terms and began wording it much more like any money you give is more of a 'donation' than a deposit/purchase of a future product


e: apparently not. can't remember where i read that
 
F

Feep

Banned
Alexlf said:
According to the kickstarter policy:


So looks like there is a good foothold for a civil suit at the very least

EDIT: Beaten by djplaeskool
Click to expand...
I don't know if this means anything, though. It would be like a workplace saying employees have to show up on time. They can be fired and barred from ever working there again, but you can't take civil action...

...it depends how the courts see the money given to the project creator, and whether or not this constitutes a payment of goods and services. I personally believe it should *not*, as it's made pretty clear these are donations, but hey, I'm not the court. They have every right to try.

A real shame about the project, though, it looked pretty cool. And stuff like this hurts all Kickstarter projects. = (

Edit: From what ultron posted, though, that's pretty condemning. I thought the language of "donation" was on the website.
 
K

kodt

Banned
Dark Octave said:
Calling that someday someone will eventually scam Kickstarter funders is like calling the fact that you will eventually bump into something if you run with your eyes closed. It's common sense and something that would eventually happen no matter what. What kind of world do you think we live in?
Click to expand...

I agree, but a great number of posters took extreme offense at that notion in the thread I linked to.
 
X

Xanathus

Member
There doesn't seem to be any hard evidence that the creator has abandoned the project, all we have are hearsay from backers. Sure it's a smoking gun that the creator hasn't been updating the backers but for all we know he could have been in an accident and is in a coma.
 
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