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Was the Code Hero Kickstarter a scam? They claim it's not! But Tactical Corsets!!!

border

Member
The guy's previouisly failed business venture was selling Tactical Corsets:

55698d1353339452-worst-tactical-gear-idea-ever-bulletproof-corsets-4.jpg



They took a bunch of orders, never delivered any merchandise, and then promptly shut down the website.

Their Facebook TimeLine is pretty hilarious. The dude just spams non-stop about how his Code Hero Kickstarter needs support. He even has the balls to say "I will resume making Tactical Corsets once Code Hero launches."
 

EDarkness

Member
People should be smart about what they're funding. Looking at that page, there is no way I'd fund that project and no one should have funded it in the first place. Has scam written all over it.
 
The guy's previouisly failed business venture was selling Tactical Corsets:

55698d1353339452-worst-tactical-gear-idea-ever-bulletproof-corsets-4.jpg



They took a bunch of orders, never delivered any merchandise, and then promptly shut down the website.

Their Facebook TimeLine is pretty hilarious. The dude just spams non-stop about how his Code Hero Kickstarter needs support. He even has the balls to say "I will resume making Tactical Corsets once Code Hero launches."

The only logical progression is we need to kickstarter a kickstarter which will finally finish the game which will finish the battle corset.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
The guy's previouisly failed business venture was selling Tactical Corsets:

55698d1353339452-worst-tactical-gear-idea-ever-bulletproof-corsets-4.jpg



They took a bunch of orders, never delivered any merchandise, and then promptly shut down the website.

Their Facebook TimeLine is pretty hilarious. The dude just spams non-stop about how his Code Hero Kickstarter needs support. He even has the balls to say "I will resume making Tactical Corsets once Code Hero launches."

Hahaha. Seems like he loves to scam.
 

oneils

Member
There is no such clause, quite the opposite:



This is one of the steps that project creators have to go through when setting the campaign page:

Are these terms of service legally enforceable, though? I think that will be the big test if anyone ever sues a ks project team.
 
Are these terms of service legally enforceable, though? I think that will be the big test if anyone ever sues a ks project team.

Terms of Service are actually quite legally sound, they've been tested in court and even some of the most outlandish things people agree to in them have been deemed legally enforcable.

Having said that, it's possible that it might be Kickstarter who has to sue them, for breaking Kickstarter's ToS, and that's something I doubt would ever happen.
 

SparkTR

Member
so apparently they're saying its still on, with an updated build or something due tomorrow. whats going on? >_>

This was an overreaction that stemmed from the fact that the guy doesn't post enough updates. Their PAX build was functional and there's nothing to suggest they 'spent all their kickstarter money and ditched'. I mean it's understandable to be frustrated at a lack of updates, but it's also frustrating when a mob mentality forms and dissenting opinions/information gets ignored like what's currently happening in this thread.
 

Despera

Banned
This was an overreaction that stemmed from the fact that the guy doesn't post enough updates. Their PAX build was functional and there's nothing to suggest they 'spent all their kickstarter money and ditched'. I mean it's understandable to be frustrated at a lack of updates, but fuck it's also frustrating when a mob mentality forms and dissenting opinions/information gets ignored like what's happening in this thread.
So the lesson to be learned here is: keep the backers updated.
 

Aselith

Member
Lots of us were calling this when the craze started, but all the Kickstarter defenders said that this would never happen because of protections in place.

I don't think anyone ever said it wouldn't or couldn't happen. People were doomsaying Kickstarter because of it happening but I didn't and don't think that'll happen and that was what most people who defended Kickstarter were saying. One bad apple won't spoil the bunch.
 
The guy's previouisly failed business venture was selling Tactical Corsets:

55698d1353339452-worst-tactical-gear-idea-ever-bulletproof-corsets-4.jpg



They took a bunch of orders, never delivered any merchandise, and then promptly shut down the website.

Their Facebook TimeLine is pretty hilarious. The dude just spams non-stop about how his Code Hero Kickstarter needs support. He even has the balls to say "I will resume making Tactical Corsets once Code Hero launches."

WHY ON EARTH was this not more widely discussed before people were fooled into buying into this Kickstarter scam?


And this response!

Code Hero development continues. We released the first alpha build of the game after PAX and we're releasing alpha 2 soon to show you the latest progress.

We are committed to finishing this game and although progress has slowed down and the release is taking longer than we planned, we remain dedicated to working on the project and will continue to do so because we believe in this game and we believe in making programming fun to learn.

We are testing a second alpha release of the game to release soon so you can see what we've added since the first alpha. We exhibited our first alpha release at PAX and you can download it here.

Some of our Kickstarter backers are frustrated with the lack of updates on progress, and Code Hero lead developer Alex Peake would like to make a personal apology:

What a joke! So they go completely silent for three months, then the backers start to mount a legal campaign, and now all of a sudden they make an update? INCREDIBLY fishy.
 

oneils

Member
Terms of Service are actually quite legally sound, they've been tested in court and even some of the most outlandish things people agree to in them have been deemed legally enforcable.

Having said that, it's possible that it might be Kickstarter who has to sue them, for breaking Kickstarter's ToS, and that's something I doubt would ever happen.

But the TOS has to have some sort of test to pass in order for it to be lawful in the first place, right? For example, I can't imagine that a website can just implement a click-wrap contract asking you to agree to a 1 million dollar payment per view and then legally bind you to that agreement if you click on "ok."


edit: I guess my example is really just a case of fraud. Also, your second point is a good one. The backer and project maker agree to Kickstarter's terms of service. So how does the backer have any standing if the project lead fails to meet Kickstarter's TOS?
 
What a freaking scam artist.........Looks like they started feeling the heat and are back peddling fast....Hell the kickstarter goal was reached 10 months ago and there has been very little developments or updates......Now they have one tomorrow? I bet he bought a plane ticket tomorrow.....thats the update
 
This was an overreaction that stemmed from the fact that the guy doesn't post enough updates. Their PAX build was functional and there's nothing to suggest they 'spent all their kickstarter money and ditched'. I mean it's understandable to be frustrated at a lack of updates, but it's also frustrating when a mob mentality forms and dissenting opinions/information gets ignored like what's currently happening in this thread.

I don't think it was an overreaction - they were supposed to ship in February, in September they said they were going to ship the Alpha "on Friday", and give "a Full PAX report and announcement coming also this week!" and then disappeared from the face of the earth. No PAX build shipped, no update happened, nobody responded to any emails. After three months with no communication after promising an update in under a week, that's a sign that something's up. Especially if it's a team working on it, if one person went to the hospital or lost internet or something, someone else could post "Sorry, we've got issues, hold on".
 

Pociask

Member
As general legal theory goes, without looking at the specifics of KS, there is no contract unless there is an offer by one person, second person accepts that exact offer, and there is consideration (ignore that part for now).

I do not see how a third party ToS can substitute for the offer and acceptance between those first two parties.

Add into the mix that on KS, the offer is constantly changing, what with stetch tiers and whatnot.

If there WERE a contract, each individual could sue. Ok, so, you want to sue a dude who lives in another state to collect 15? 100? 10,000.? Lawyers start at about 100 an hour. IF you win, you may have a worthless judment, and have spent far more in legal fees than you can ever hope to collect.

I love crowdfunding, but this is why it should be done as crowd-investing. Shareholders have rights and protections. I think in ten years we'll be looking back at KS the way we look back at a bartering based economy - quaint and antiquated.
 
As general legal theory goes, without looking at the specifics of KS, there is no contract unless there is an offer by one person, second person accepts that exact offer, and there is consideration (ignore that part for now).

I do not see how a third party ToS can substitute for the offer and acceptance between those first two parties.

Add into the mix that on KS, the offer is constantly changing, what with stetch tiers and whatnot.

If there WERE a contract, each individual could sue. Ok, so, you want to sue a dude who lives in another state to collect 15? 100? 10,000.? Lawyers start at about 100 an hour. IF you win, you may have a worthless judment, and have spent far more in legal fees than you can ever hope to collect.

I love crowdfunding, but this is why it should be done as crowd-investing. Shareholders have rights and protections. I think in ten years we'll be looking back at KS the way we look back at a bartering based economy - quaint and antiquated.

Thanks....Makes sense to me...
 
I don't think it was an overreaction - they were supposed to ship in February, in September they said they were going to ship the Alpha "on Friday", and give "a Full PAX report and announcement coming also this week!" and then disappeared from the face of the earth. No PAX build shipped, no update happened, nobody responded to any emails.

If you read Alex Peake's "personal apology," it doesn't address any of the concerns people have AND it's quite poorly constructed. Here's the most dubious section:

I know the level of frustration some people have is high right now and that it is my fault for not communicating about our ongoing progress, but I want to reassure everyone who has backed us not to panic: Code Hero is not dead and we will not let our supporters and Kickstarter backers down. All our backer rewards will be delievered along with the game. It is taking longer than we hoped, but the game is becoming awesomer than we planned too. I'll post a more detailed update soon with the new alpha build and answer any questions and concerns people may have.

Why haven't you communicated more with backers? Why didn't you release the alpha when you said you would? Why haven't you made a real update about game progress since September?

Why is the game delayed so much? Why haven't the backer rewards been delivered already? Why are you only issuing an update / releasing an alpha when your backers were beginning to launch a lawsuit against you? Why does your official response contain typos and grammatical errors like it was rushed out?
 

border

Member
WHY ON EARTH was this not more widely discussed before people were fooled into buying into this Kickstarter scam?

Tactical Corsets had not died at the time the Kickstarter was running.

What a joke! So they go completely silent for three months, then the backers start to mount a legal campaign, and now all of a sudden they make an update? INCREDIBLY fishy.

The backers have clearly been angry and frustrated for a very very long time.

I think the only reason the developers have responded now is because a few gaming websites have picked up the story. If the rage was simply limited to the Kickstarter page, they probably would have just stayed silent. The backers chose the right time to grab their torches and pitchforks though, since the second half of December is absolutely dead for gaming news and on a slow newsday blogs will write about pretty much anything.
 
We're talking about financial contributions in the range of $15-20 from the vast majority of contributors, for the vast majority of games on kickstarter. Why are you bringing up things like equity and return when we're dealing with amounts that could barely pay for a dinner.

Capital is capital whether it's in the billions or the tens of dollars.

I could buy one share in RIM right (~$11) now and I how have equity in that company. Very small equity sure but I am legally a part owner of said RIM. What makes Kickstarter different is that people expect me to help fund their projects and all I'm getting is some random doodad with my name on it - if that, plus the product. Then when you get into the four figures, it's really shady to me to ask people to give you that amount of money and offer them no return on investment or equity.

I'm only looking at this financially. Not video from the point of view of the gamer. If you have a hand in creating new wealth, you should be compensated for it. Simple as that.

Even Kiva - a microfinance project that funds small business in the third world with a Kickstarter like structure tries to get the business owners to pay back the principal of the loan.

I'm as excited for Wasteland 2 as the next guy but imagine if Angry Birds was a Kickstarter and you pledged $1000. That game has now made the creators billions. I would be royally pissed if the only thing I received from that pledge was my name in the credits, a thank you card and a plastic bird.
 

EVOL 100%

Member
That's pretty scummy.

A few bad apples were bound to happen though, not very surprised. And it's not stopping me from pledging to kickstarters I deem worthy of my money and trust.
 
Capital is capital whether it's in the billions or the tens of dollars.

I could buy one share in RIM right (~$11) now and I how have equity in that company. Very small equity sure but I am legally a part owner of said RIM. What makes Kickstarter different is that people expect me to help fund their projects and all I'm getting is some random doodad with my name on it - if that, plus the product. Then when you get into the four figures, it's really shady to me to ask people to give you that amount of money and offer them no return on investment or equity.

I'm only looking at this financially. Not video from the point of view of the gamer. If you have a hand in creating new wealth, you should be compensated for it. Simple as that.

Even Kiva - a microfinance project that funds small business in the third world with a Kickstarter like structure tries to get the business owners to pay back the principal of the loan.

I'm as excited for Wasteland 2 as the next guy but imagine if Angry Birds was a Kickstarter and you pledged $1000. That game has now made the creators billions. I would be royally pissed if the only thing I received from that pledge was my name in the credits, a thank you card and a plastic bird.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecenate#Legacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronage

Unless someone was pointing a gun at you - then you entered kickstar deal voluntarily after reading the terms and rewards and by giving money you accepted them
 

vazel

Banned
Lots of us were calling this when the craze started, but all the Kickstarter defenders said that this would never happen because of protections in place.
Which defenders ever said this wouldn't happen? I think most of us that like Kickstarter understand that some projects will go unfulfilled.
 

border

Member
I'm as excited for Wasteland 2 as the next guy but imagine if Angry Birds was a Kickstarter and you pledged $1000. That game has now made the creators billions. I would be royally pissed if the only thing I received from that pledge was my name in the credits, a thank you card and a plastic bird.

You understand that the capital required to establish a publicly traded company is probably 1000 times greater than what most of these KickStarters are asking for, right?

I'd like it if they could sell equity in the company, but most of the people running Kickstarters probably don't even understand what equity means.....nor do they have the staff and the accounting/legal resources to do something like that.

I suspect the large donations are just the result of nostalgic older gamers who think it'd be cool to splurge big, then get some VIP treatment and a dinner/demo with one of their favorite game designers. I don't think any of them are really concerned with making money.

If you really have thousands to spend on indie projects, I imagine you could probably privately approach any of these Kickstarters and privately discuss the possibility of a short-term loan or stake in equity.
 

Aaron

Member
For sure. I don't have issues with people who do donate.

I was just explaining my thought process. It all goes back to a very simple concept for me. If I have a hand in creating new wealth, I should be paid.
Then invest. There's plenty of avenues for that. Kickstarter just isn't one of them. Nor should it be. It would only lead to distorting the creator's intent, and making them a slave to the very thing they avoided by going to a publisher / larger business.
 

Nose Master

Member
So, wait. It's the responsibility of the backers themselves to organize the lawsuit? What the fuck good is the Kickstarter service itself, then?
 
I look at this from a financial point of view only.

These projects are basically businesses that you're helping to fund, incurring all the risks without any of the reward. What if you ended up funding the next Angry Birds and all you had to show for it was a special edition box with a hand painted bird while the developers made billions?

The way I see it, if I'm going to have a hand in creating wealth, I should get some money for it. Otherwise, I'll wait for the release like everyone else and buy it on Steam.

Kickstarter is designed primarily to fund "creative projects" with little commercial appeal, that are unlikely to get funding from conventional sources and that are unlikely to become profittable. Most of the big successful Kickstarter projects has been for old school PC genres that have died years ago. The odds of any Kickstarter project becoming the next Angry Bird is extremely slim, and I seriously doubt anyone who donates to a Kickstarter project cares about how much money the devs can make from their Kickstarter fund, all they care about is that they get a game from the dev and they enjoy playing it.
 

Wiktor

Member
This is the most sensible stance.

Propably, but it would be terrible if there wouldn't be people who have different stance. None of the big KS projects would ever me made.

Anyway, everybody with a brain knew some game scams will happen. It's beyond silly however to think this will kill gaming Kickstarter. There have been non-gaming scams on KS before and somehow the site's still going strong.
 

Slavik81

Member
Was it obvious? How so?

Real question.

How do you tell what's a scam and what isn't on Kickstarter?

I'm still not convinced this is a scam, but it is a game that I passed on because of their idea. While it sounded cool, I thought it was far too ambitious and poorly defined for their team to successfully build upon.

While it was possible they could have pulled through despite that, the fact that they're having serious trouble is not surprising in the least.

Looking into the people involved, Alex Peake seems to be a bright guy who's perhaps just in over his head.
 

Famassu

Member
What is the incentive for me to take on the risk and just give some stranger money?
You're helping people not be out of a job while also potentially getting something you enjoy in return. It's too bad if you're so selfish that you want money money money money, but there are people who don't really give a shit about that. We just want to see these interesting sounding/looking games made.

And if, say, Obsidian earned billions with Project Infinity, I'd be glad because that'd mean they could easily self-publish their future games and their future (& my future enjoyment of awesome RPGs) would be guaranteed for quite some time.
 

duckroll

Member
This thread keeps delivering. I'm laughing my ass off at the developments. Probably not so funny if you helped fund this though!
 

wonzo

Banned
The guy's previouisly failed business venture was selling Tactical Corsets:

55698d1353339452-worst-tactical-gear-idea-ever-bulletproof-corsets-4.jpg



They took a bunch of orders, never delivered any merchandise, and then promptly shut down the website.

Their Facebook TimeLine is pretty hilarious. The dude just spams non-stop about how his Code Hero Kickstarter needs support. He even has the balls to say "I will resume making Tactical Corsets once Code Hero launches."
oh my god lmao
 

mclem

Member
and I don't see anything wrong with it. If you are telling me with straight face that what I am doing is wrong, then let me know WHY.


Ah, no, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that what you are doing is wrong; I'm simply stating that what *I* am doing is also not wrong. This isn't an either/or thing. I've emphasised the frame of mind in which I made *my* decisions.
 

dock

Member
Wow, I had no idea the Tactical Corset thing was a scam. That really didn't get the publicity it deserved!!

Horrible to think that from here onwards every Kickstarter ought to require a decent background check of the creators. The Code Hero situation could have been avoided in this case.

Or, frankly, would probably have been fine had he kept on communicating, rather than going silent.
 

dock

Member
He has surfaced, and posted an update on the Kickstarter page, as well as his company site:
https://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...me-that-teaches-you-to-make-games-he/comments

I'm Alex the lead developer of Code Hero and here is my response to this news story, updated as I continue to answer the specific questions people have:
https://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues
Here's the Google Hangout where you can talk to us:
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2f0778f953e6506ccb5e95232cf91282f361e6b3…
Code Hero development continues. We released the first alpha build of the game after PAX and we're releasing alpha 2 soon to show you the latest progress.
https://primerlabs.com/download
(You do have to be a backer or buy the game to play the alpha as that is how we sustain development, but you can see how the game has evolved over the last year in the trailers: http://primerlabs.com/trailer)
UPDATE: We reached Dustin Deckard by email. He said he wants the game to succeed and that his position is being misinterpreted in some media reports. He's not suing us, he's just trying to get answers about the project's progress as we hadn't replied to his email before. We're answering journalist and backer questions since posting the first response and posting them here. Our ongoing updates will be posted below as we answer people's questions as transparently and quickly as possible to make sure people are clear that the game development continues and we're going to communicate everything about its progress from now on.
UPDATE: We're on a Google Hangout you can join if you want to ask us whatever you'd like. Some journalists have questions and a lot of our friends and supporters who believe in us have reached out and asked how they can help.
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2f0778f953e6506ccb5e95232cf91282f361e6b3…
We are committed to finishing this game and although progress has slowed down and the release is taking longer than we planned, we remain dedicated to working on the project and will continue to do so because we believe in this game and we believe in making programming fun to learn.
We are testing a second alpha release of the game to release soon so you can see what we've added since the first alpha. We exhibited our first alpha release at PAX and you can download it here.
Some of our Kickstarter backers are frustrated with the lack of updates on progress, and Code Hero lead developer Alex Peake would like to make a personal apology:
Hello backer. I owe you a thanks for your support and an apology for our lack of updates on all the progress we've made with your help. I started the Code Hero project to make a game that teaches people how to make games and you backed us to help make that happen. We are going to finish this game for you and everybody else in the world who wants to learn how to code.
I believe in this mission and I'm grateful that you and so many others have believed in Code Hero too and supported us to work on this project. I worked on the idea to make a prototype for a year before asking for your help on Kickstarter, I built a team to work on it for a year since, and we are committed to finishing this game and continuing to add to it so you can make games of your own.
Game development is hard and many studios and projects fail, but I can't let you down because what we're making is important. It's important to me personally to give all the people in the world a way to learn to code that is actually fun. I won't let any obstacles stop the Code Hero team from completing this. It's my life purpose to make this game because I want to see you make games of your own. Software development is hard work and we're behind schedule and solving technical challenges to add player level creation much harder than the already huge creative challenge we set ourselves to begin with. But every big project faces big challenges and we're going to figure ours out and get the game out and keep updating it and expanding it to make it grow to keep challenging the skills of our players as they learn more and more game coding skills.
Many of you may not have tried the latest alpha we showed and released at PAX. I encourage you to download it and try it and see how much we've accomplished so far. The first alpha shows a world called Gamebridge Unityversity and your first mentor Ada Lovelace who guides you through the tour of the game. First you visit the Arcade you can play and post player-created games built with the world editing tools, but first you visit the Labyrinth where you learn how to edit the game's variables to beat it. Next you visit the Library where you can learn about Unityscript programming. Then you visit the Real Artist Shipyard where you're introduced to the Scenebox world editor to make and ship your first level. The tour is designed to take the player from playing an adventure game to making their own right from the outset. It isn't complete yet, but it shows what we built and we're hard at work expanding on that first release to get the new functions fully working and the new training levels fleshed out.
We're testing a new second alpha release tomorrow to show what we've added since then and we're working towards a third more feature complete alpha that will be ready for general use as a complete learning tool.
I know the level of frustration some people have is high right now and that it is my fault for not communicating about our ongoing progress, but I want to reassure everyone who has backed us not to panic: Code Hero is not dead and we will not let our supporters and Kickstarter backers down. All our backer rewards will be delievered along with the game. It is taking longer than we hoped, but the game is becoming awesomer than we planned too. I'll post a more detailed update soon with the new alpha build and answer any questions and concerns people may have.
If you'd like to reach me, my email is alex@primerlabs.com and I'm on Google Hangouts and skype username "empowerment" and I will answer your all your questions or concerns.

GamebridgeAlpha2Screenshot.jpg

Along with a really ugly screenshot.
 
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