Well maybe we should give them a bit longer than four months to respond. After all, I'm pretty sure it took Sony longer than that to turn things around. Dropping the price in the UK is a start.
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Bonus Round - Is Time Running Out For Xbox?
- Thread starter iNvid02
- Start date
Well maybe we should give them a bit longer than four months to respond. After all, I'm pretty sure it took Sony longer than that to turn things around. Dropping the price in the UK is a start.
To be fair, MS has been doing quite a lot considering the short time the console has been out. They already dropped the price slightly in the UK. They're offering either Titanfall or Forza with new console purchases. They've applied multiple OS updates addressing most of the more serious complaints.
I'm not sure what more you could really expect within a 4 month window. The actions you list from Sony sure as hell didn't happen in that sort of timeframe.
This is an interesting nugget I hadn't considered. They would probably continue to sell a lot of kinects as a standalone peripheral and as a part of premium sku's which might mitigate much of the the damage. But man, if they really can't afford to unbundle it I think they are in trouble this year, the only way I see their sales getting back on track is if they hit price parity with the. PS4. I wonder if they will try revisiting the idea of a subsidised model in some way.
Bluekaveli
Member
Next year we will say the war was over in 2015.But "cocky" Sony brought us the PS2.
30 million PS4s
12 million XB1s
9 million WiiUs
The point is that they Sony changed and eventually turned things around. A secondary point is that it took Sony many years to do so. And a tertiary point is that there is a this is crazy belief that MS can't do the same. It's 4 months into this console cycle, and since the E3 reveal MS has been changing things at a far faster pace than Sony did in all the previous generation. MS changed faster than Sony did last gen, why is it so hard to believe they won't this gen, when it looks like they'll be chasing Sony? That's just not logical.
Unknown One
Member
The post was a response to the poster above me stating he doesn't remember if ps3 had doomed articles.
Crimsonsky
Member
Actually I said, "I don't remember the ps3 having this many doomed articles so early in it's life cycle." Which is quite a bit different.
Unknown One
Member
It had plenty more.
Suzushiiro
Banned
This relates to something I suspected a while back- part of the reason why PS4 is selling so well is probably because the fact that it's so difficult to find enhances the perception that it's a better system. When XBone is $100 more and in stock everywhere while PS4 is nowhere to be found, you don't think "fuck it, I'll buy an XBone," you think "well, if the PS4 is that much more popular, it must be worth holding out for."
Exactly. Microsoft has completely failed to convince people of why Kinect is worth the extra $100 price tag. They've never given people a reason as to why they should care about it, other than it being required for the UI of the system.
IMO, they just need to revamp the UI so that it would work with just the Xbox One controller, & offer a Kinectless SKU at $400. Why bother including Kinect alongside of the console if you're going to do nothing with it? What is the point?
The big difference is that Sony had strong brand equity worldwide that helped them through the first few years of the PS3's life. MS doesn't have that luxury where they are only relevant in US/UK and those two markets are quickly switching over to PS4 this gen along with all the other markets being a lock for PS4. MS could mount a comback/fight in NA/UK but even then it's quite obvious they are going to lose a lot of share this gen to Sony. Not including the Wii U I'm willing to predict a 70/30 split in Sony's favor.
It had plenty and for good reason.
BigDaddyFatSack
Banned
Xbox One is neck and neck with PS4 in the US. Many Sony fans are clearly agitated by the fact that Xbox One isn't bombing as hard as they wish they would. xD
X1 is here to stay. Better get used to it.
thehunter01
Banned
Price drop towards 299 euro.
Quadraphonic
Member
2:1 is neck and neck? That's an awfully long neck.
LilWayneSuckz
Member
What? The PS4 is supply constrained in the states as well. So them having "fairly" close sales isn't the entire picture.
The Xbox 360 was successful because it sold 40+ million in the US alone. The fact that the PS4 is doing better than XB1 in America is very troubling for Microsoft since that was their home market.
The PS4 doing better in the US and worldwide means they are going to have to do something more than waiting for a 3rd party game to release.
BigDaddyFatSack
Banned
It's 1:1 in the US.
Even taking into account only the US... that's still not true. Even if it were true, neck and neck in the US is already a problem.
TimFL
Member
The difference is that the PS3 could perform on par/better than the 360 if optimized for it. The XB1 wont perform better than the PS4 due to the power gap. I don't see this changing if they don't come out with some secret sauce DX12 that enables the extra hidden hardware. /s (sadly that's what every XB1 owner is apparently thinking, I'd actually be happy for them if it turns out true because otherwise they'll go into denial mode again)
And the cut the price argument doesn't work that easily. Last time I checked the XB1 wasn't that much cheaper to produce than the PS4 due to the custom hardware with eSRAM and the "outdated" DDR3 which will only rise in price. If I'm not mistaken the XB1 is actually more expensive to produce with the biggest price-bumper being the eSRAM.
BigDaddyFatSack
Banned
It's quite impressive considering X1 is $100 more expensive and it's neck and neck with PS4. Very impressive.
I guess it would be if it were true. Still though, they really needed to lead in the US and UK at least. The rest of the world was never going to be favourable to them, so getting slapped in those two markets is a cause for concern.
I'm tired of Geoff Keighley. He's so stubborn and I think he's the reason why we don't see many other enthusiastic gaming journalists hosting shows and stuff, because he's taken monopoly on everything, even VGX (yuck) and to be honest he's not that good at it... only his gumption and stubbornness keeps him relevant.
/rant
/rant
Suzushiiro
Banned
Yeah, pretty much- Sony thought that they could get away with their mistakes on the PS3 based on the strength of the brand, and to an extent, they were right- brand power just kept it healthy enough to be able to fix said mistakes and recover, rather than enabling them to win in spite of them. MS isn't coming into this generation off of two consecutive blowouts, so their margin for error is smaller.
travisbickle
Member
Bonus Round need to find a better trend predictor. Claiming Twitch will be popular for the selfie obsessed totally misses out on what has happened in the online space with streaming games and the rise of global-local communities.
Kinect is dead weight. I'm sure that MS has been looking into ways to showcase Kinect as a "must have" item for years now. I'm sure they've had devs do the same. Unfortunately for MS, Kinect just does not have any "must have" capacity. It added too much cost into the unit where other parts, the more important parts, could have seen that overhead go into. It really put them in an awful position price wise, and mindshare wise. They can't just lop off $100 and call it a day. It would be at the price point the PS4 is at now, and still possess known-lesser hardware. Sony could sit comfortably without a price drop knowing this, or if they feel like they want to twist the dagger, drop their price even $50. Out of the 3, Sony is easily the master of hardware revisions to boot.
Worst part for MS is that Sony hasn't even pulled their ace yet, their first party studios. MS really gave Sony an opportunity here, and that's at E3 Sony can come out showing off what their main studios are working on and bury MS this gen.
Due to MS's decisions, I don't believe there's a comeback opportunity like Sony had last gen.
Worst part for MS is that Sony hasn't even pulled their ace yet, their first party studios. MS really gave Sony an opportunity here, and that's at E3 Sony can come out showing off what their main studios are working on and bury MS this gen.
Due to MS's decisions, I don't believe there's a comeback opportunity like Sony had last gen.
The ps3 had more doom articles than the xbone. There is probably an archived gaf thread about it.
...and how is that value proposition working out for them? Probably not the comparison you want to make if you're looking for successful examples.
In both cases, consumers are being offered something that by and large isn't needed, isn't seen as worth the proposed value, and are acting accordingly - moving en masse to the competitor that isn't wasting time with unnecessary gimmickry. Metrics are bearing this out, there is no argument to be had with the numbers. Either MS bites the bullet and removes it, or some sort of market-changing experience is delivered that magically gets everybody on board with Kinect, successfully changing the narrative. I know where I'd place my bet.
No, and that's been proven time and time again since both machines have been available for direct comparison. Spending an extra $100 for a camera I don't want, that provides no benefit to my games, and is guaranteed to receive the majority of multiplatform titles in a weaker state than the competition makes no sense. Remove the camera, drop the price and I'll buy one tomorrow for Killer Instinct, the main title that I'm missing right now by not owning an Xbone.
Well he is writing a Final Hours thing for it so its in his best interest.This is all I got from that Bonus Round:
I swear I think Geoff has been hardwired to explode if he doesn't mention Titanfall once every two minutes.
You couldn't even access the XMB while in game for the longest time. I don't think you are remembering correctly.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
I find it odd how the media narrative of "Xbox 360 won!" has shifted. First it was simply raw numbers. Then it was "it's the highest-selling HD console. Wii doesn't count lol". Then it was "higher attach rates" and "higher NPD numbers" and lastly the narrative shifted to something like this:
Well, 360 didn't "win" by selling the most, but it certainly won by stealing marketshare from Sony. Look at dat marketshare! All that marketshare
And now that the US/UK marketshare is being gobbled up by PS4, you're content to brag "X1 is keeping neck-and-neck in USA" as if that's a victory? 360 sold nearly double what the PS3 did last gen in the USA. Dat marketshare, indeed.
Egg on my face >.<
SwiftDeath
Member
But it's a video...
I'm not saying you didn't read the OP and posted, but you didn't read the OP and posted
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
The all-too-common notion of "Sony turned around the PS3. Why can't Microsoft turn around the X1?" is a great example of false equivalency. Would you apply the same logic to Nintendo? After all, Sony turned around the PS3. Why can't Nintendo turn the Wii-U into the market leader? It's silly.
The reality is that we've seen how Microsoft tries to "turn things around". Playstation was market leader for 2 gens in a row, and we hadn't yet seen how Playstation would be able to turn things around from a weaker position.
On the other hand, there are plenty of examples of Microsoft - whether within the Xbox brand or without - completely failing to "turn things around". When Microsoft tries to "turn things around" we get consoles launched early to the peril of their reliability. We get a focus on the Wii audience while abandoning the core audience that supported you in the first place.
So, when that rhetorical question is posed: Sony turned around the PS3, why can't Microsoft turn around the X1? Well, my answer would be: because Sony has proven themselves already. Microsoft hasn't.
fatgamecat
Member
Sony recovered the PS3 through aggressive price drops and feature removal, investing in first party games, and leveraging non-US/UK global markets. It also helped that the PS3 was at least on par graphically with 360 when coded for properly. It's questionable whether MS can utilize any of those advantages at least to the extent Sony did.
RealityPales
Member
You really think they're going to stick with $499 until E3 2015? That's hilarious.
It also helped that 9 mil of consoles was sold in Japan, 8mil more than X360. In the west, PS3 lost handily in US and UK, but those 8mil additional consoles in Japan greatly helped to erase that lead. Although, western 3rd parties never saw great benefits from those Japanese consoles...
This time PS4 will will everywhere, except maybe in US where MS will try like mad to at least achieve 50/50 install base over the next couple of years.
SwiftDeath
Member
I think Pacter's logic on selfies/streaming is utter nonsense
People are not buying the PS4 for streaming in my opinion. They are buying the PS4 for whatever reason then once they have the PS4 they look at the Playstation Live tab and see everyone else streaming and then want the camera so they can stream. It is not a primary motivation to get the console but is to get the camera.
MS's problem is that the camera is bundled in with the console but as I mentioned streaming is likely only big once people get their consoles [PS4] and see others streaming. How much of the mass market is going to be watching twitch on a regular basis and decide "Hey look at that I can stream from a PS4/XB1 let's go buy one"?
No it's a secondary effect facilitated by the Playstation Live tab, it is not the other way around
SicSemperTyrannis
Member
Personally I would predict Fall 2014 leading into the release of Halo for a price cut proper, until then we will continue to see bundled content to "increase the value" of the existing content.
Zombie James
Banned
SwiftDeath
Member
While possible I see it as highly unlikely simply because bundling games in with a console are far far less effective to boost sales than an equivalent price cut.
Consumers will still see a $500 price tag on the console even if the $100 worth of extra content appeals to them. A $100 price cut appeals to everyone.
If MS doesn't drop price this year at $50 if not $100 I think by the end of the year, the XB1 will be in a far more dire sales position. They absolutely need to drop price.
Agreed. Even if Xbox One ties with PS4 in sales in the U.S., it wouldn't exactly be a victory for Microsoft like BigDaddyFatSack thinks, especially when PS4 will most likely outsell Xbox One outside of the U.S.
The appeal of bundling in this case seems to be that:
a) you can go back up afterward if it pushes you over critical mass
b) you can "hide" payments - we've discussed how much EA may have gotten paid, but what if EA got (say) a licensing fee waiver on their next 20m-25m units rather than $200m cash? Or what if they just agreed to take $75m a year rather than $200m up front?
I'd imagine that those appeal to an MS who cruised to victory in the US based on those first 5m X360 buyers, and who have to show good results this year to placate investors.
(bundling older games, bundling DLCfests, and so on all have different appeals.)
SwiftDeath
Member
I was solely reflecting on bundling in games versus cutting price from a consumer perspective.
Obviously there are reasons from a business perspective why MS values doing a bundle now instead of a price cut otherwise they wouldn't
Your memory is off about this then. The press in general was way more negative on the PS3 than the Xbone. If anything, the majority of articles have been to downplay everything and offer every benefit of the doubt to the Xbone so far.
Sony never really "turned it around". US sales have been on a roughly steady pace of 4m less than 360 at launch + around 1m less a year, and if anything the gap -widened- post-2010. The catchup was entirely due to higher sales in Japan, Europe, and smaller territories, and their sales have always been higher in those territories.
MS is unlikely to be able to replicate this performance, as they've designed a box with key USPs that will never work there and in many cases decided it's not worth their money to launch there yet.
The enthusiast press was, for a variety of reasons. (End of overall Japan boom, ability of MS and Western pubs to push a Famitsu-style buddy system, MS's smart cooperation with PC devs offering guys who had seen everything on console "new" experiences.) Analysts tended to produce hilariously optimistic outcomes for Sony.
Though it is worth noting that most of the "hilariously" optimistic ideas that GAF took the piss out of tended to be either "Sony will top out at 100m, X360 will top out at 80m, and Wii will bomb" or "Sony will top out at 100m, Wii will top out at 80m, and X360 will bomb"; apart from the bomba they're far closer in retrospect than we expected them to be.
Indeed.
People that don't remember how crazy biased the media was for the xbox and against the PS3 just weren't around, or didn't watch The 1UP Show.
The Xbone is getting treated with an extremely soft touch in comparison.
Melchiah
Member
EA console sounds actually worse than the originally intended XB1 with DRM. Just imagine all the nickle & diming they could do if they had the whole platform under control.