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[linsivvi]

It exists, but not from a democratic country that is supported by a democratic military superpower...
If it's true, then that democratic military superpower is supporting racism.
At that point it's like supporting how some religion was treated during WW2 in Europe.

Welcome to the real world.

 

[MutFox]

Then why doesn't the media call out the racism,
if they call out any racism done by some celebrity?

It just doesn't make sense.

Are all those facts 100% correct?
I know that sometimes the truth gets bent.

 

[kmag]

Hoo boy. The US has propped up far more racist regimes than Israel. Far far far more racist. Hell, until about 50 years ago, the US still enforced a separate but equal doctrine, along with outright voter suppression against black people, on itself, let alone other places in the world.

And here's the thing: The Palestinians aren't Israeli citizens. They live under military occupation by the Israelis under military law. Their right to movement is severely limited, even in their own territory. This is real.

Yeah there's hardly been a murderous dictatorship the US hasn't propped up at one point or another. It does normally end up biting them in the arse, Iran being my current favourite "unintended side-effect", overtaking that whole backing of Saddam back in the 80's.

 

[collige]

Then why doesn't the media call out the racism,
if they call out any racism done by some celebrity?

Because they don't give a shit about what happens in the Palestinian territories unless there's violence.

 

[Costia]

It exists, but not from a democratic country that is supported by a democratic military superpower...
If it's true, then that democratic military superpower is supporting racism.
At that point it's like supporting how some religion was treated during WW2 in Europe.

That "infographic" is a lie.
To cross into Israel , that is presented here as the sea, you need an Israeli passport. Just like in any other country.
20% of Israel's population are muslim arabs - they all have an israeli pasport and can cross freely, just like any other citizen.
If you are not a citizen of israel and you want to cross into israel you will need some sort of a visa. Again - just like in any other country. For example, if I wanted to go to the US, since i am not a citizen of the US, i would have to get a visa and pass an interview by the american embassy.
Edit: there are ~100K palestinians that aren't israeli citizens working inside israel.

Which is why both parties are included in the ceasefire demands and not just Israel.
Which is why a third party would be in charge of what goes in and out of Gaza.

Would be great as long it isn't the UN that have proven themselves to be absolutely useless time and again.

 

[Linkhero1]

That "infographic" is a lie.
To cross into Israel , that is presented here as the sea, you need an Israeli passport. Just like in any other country.
20% of Israel's population are muslim arabs - they all have an israeli pasport and can cross freely, just like any other citizen.
If you are not a citizen of israel and you want to cross into israel you will need some sort of a visa. Again - just like in any other country. For example, if I wanted to go to the US, since i am not a citizen of the US, i would have to get a visa and pass an interview by the american embassy.
Edit: there are ~100K palestinians that aren't israeli citizens working inside israel.

Not necessarily. They don't give visa to those without Israeli passports. As far as I know, the only way you can cross into Israel is if you get a doctors note for an appointment in Israel. Other than that you're pretty much sol. They do not issue people with green hawiya (id card for people in West Bank) a temporary visa.

Would be great as long it isn't the UN that have proven themselves to be absolutely useless time and again.

Useless in what regard to the current situation? It's not like they can do anything if they keep getting vetoed by Israel's number one buddy.

 

[Goliath]

That "infographic" is a lie.
To cross into Israel , that is presented here as the sea, you need an Israeli passport. Just like in any other country.
20% of Israel's population are muslim arabs - they all have an israeli pasport and can cross freely, just like any other citizen.
If you are not a citizen of israel and you want to cross into israel you will need some sort of a visa. Again - just like in any other country. For example, if I wanted to go to the US, since i am not a citizen of the US, i would have to get a visa and pass an interview by the american embassy.
Edit: there are ~100K palestinians that aren't israeli citizens working inside israel.

It would be lovely if we could understand the complex situation going on in the middle east with just one picture, but of course we can't and all these people pretending to inform people with these over simplified picture just confuse people more. Of course the people who made those pictures know exactly how misleading they are.

 

[MutFox]

Well I know what Israel is currently doing in Gaza is wrong.
Though I feel like some facts are being skewed to make them look worse than they are.

In the end, the actual facts of what they're currently doing is very sad.

 

[Costia]

Not necessarily. They don't give visa to those without Israeli passports. As far as I know, the only way you can cross into Israel is if you get a doctors note for an appointment in Israel. Other than that you're pretty much sol. They do not issue people with green hawiya (id card for people in West Bank) a temporary visa.

Useless in what regard to the current situation? It's not like they can do anything if they keep getting vetoed by Israel's number one buddy.

In the regard that if they are put in charge of inspecting the import/export to and from gaza they won't be able to stop the hamas from importing weapons.
They will find a crate full of weapons, file a violation report to the UN and those weapons back to the Hamas.
The UN were in charge of keeping the border between Lebanon and Israel a DMZ. It was their job to prevent the Hezbolah from building bases and stationing weapons in the border area. In practice the Hezbolah just ignored the UN soldiers and did whatever they wanted to. The UN soldiers filed reports and not much else.

 

[Linkhero1]

In the regard that if they are put in charge of inspecting the import/export to and from gaza they won't be able to stop the hamas from importing weapons.
They will find a crate full of weapons, file a violation report to the UN and those weapons back to the Hamas.
The UN were in charge of keeping the border between Lebanon and Israel a DMZ. It was their job to prevent the Hezbolah from building bases and stationing weapons in the border area. In practice the Hezbolah just ignored the UN soldiers and did whatever they wanted to. The UN soldiers filed reports and not much else.

First and foremost, it doesn't necessarily have to be the UN. Whoever is in charge would be responsible for destroying and disposing of the weapons in a proper manner or coordinating with the appropriate party to do so. Second of all, Hamas is still able to smuggle in weapons and/or material to create them with a blockade in place. Who does the blockade hurt in the end? The civilians. The lack of medical supplies, sanitary water, etc is not fair. Whether the blockade is there or not, Hamas is still able to get what they want.

 

[maharg]

It would be lovely if we could understand the complex situation going on in the middle east with just one picture, but of course we can't and all these people pretending to inform people with these over simplified picture just confuse people more. Of course the people who made those pictures know exactly how misleading they are.

This is just silly. Of course no single infograph paints the whole picture, but they don't exist in a vacuum. The information is there and critical thinkers can go deeper. They still serve as useful entry points, and what you call misleading is really just making a point. The point of that picture is that Jewish settlers in the West Bank have a different and more comfortable legal reality than Palestinians. Is that point wrong in some way?

 

[Quotient]

First and foremost, it doesn't necessarily have to be the UN. Whoever is in charge would be responsible for destroying and disposing of the weapons in a proper manner or coordinating with the appropriate party to do so. Second of all, Hamas is still able to smuggle in weapons and/or material to create them with a blockade in place. Who does the blockade hurt in the end? The civilians. The lack of medical supplies, sanitary water, etc is not fair. Whether the blockade is there or not, Hamas is still able to get what they want.

Though the blockade has prevented Hamas from getting more sophisticated weapons. I do agree with your sentiment that the blockade is hurting the people of Gaza.

 

[Linkhero1]

Though the blockade has prevented Hamas from getting more sophisticated weapons. I do agree with your sentiment that the blockade is hurting the people of Gaza.

Which is why a third party would be the one to monitor what goes in an out. Keep in mind that they aren't smuggle their current arsenal in plain sight.

 

[Goliath]

This is just silly. Of course no single infograph paints the whole picture, but they don't exist in a vacuum. The information is there and critical thinkers can go deeper. They still serve as useful entry points, and what you call misleading is really just making a point. The point of that picture is that Jewish settlers in the West Bank have a different and more comfortable legal reality than Palestinians. Is that point wrong in some way?

You mean being an Israeli citizen allows for easy transport to and from Israel's boarder patrol? That picture makes it seem like it's based on religion which it's not. It's based on citizenship. If a Palestinian converted to Judaism, would that picture then be correct and would they get to go down the green path to the beach. The answer is no, but of course accuracy is not the point of these oversimplified propoganda pics.

 

[ramuh]

What's the latest on a ceasefire? On CNN there saying that the West Bank proposed ceasefire was rejected by Hamas.

 

[YoungFa]

You mean being an Israeli citizen allows for easy transport to and from Israel's boarder patrol? That picture makes it seem like it's based on religion which it's not. It's based on citizenship. If a Palestinian converted to Judaism, would that picture then be correct and would they get to go down the green path to the beach. The answer is no, but of course accuracy is not the point of these oversimplified propoganda pics.

Why arent palestinians isreali citizens?

 

[MutFox]

If the US tolerates what Israel is doing,
why don't they offer to peace keep?

They can then run the concentration camp.
(Not sure if that's the correct term for Gaza)
Maybe give them some more freedoms.

 

[maharg]

You mean being an Israeli citizen allows for easy transport to and from Israel's boarder patrol? That picture makes it seem like it's based on religion which it's not. It's based on citizenship. If a Palestinian converted to Judaism, would that picture then be correct and would they get to go down the green path to the beach. The answer is no, but of course accuracy is not the point of these oversimplified propoganda pics.

Again, it's talking about people *living* in the West Bank. That means settlers vs. Palestinians. It's pretty much impossible for that to NOT be a racial issue, unless you're aware of some Arab-Israeli settlements that enjoy the same freedom of movement as Jewish-Israeli settlers I'm not aware of. If you're Jewish and you live in the West Bank (which almost by default means you're a settler) you have a degree of freedom that other people living in the West Bank do not have. Again, is that incorrect?

 

[equippedwithtowel]

If the US tolerates what Israel is doing,
why don't they offer to peace keep?

They can then run the concentration camp.
(Not sure if that's the correct term for Gaza)
Maybe give them some more freedoms.

Because they literally don't give shit until Israel crosses an arbitrary line of acting out. Then it's guarded and neutral statements and a return to a status quo of multi-billion dollar military aid packages.

 

[Linkhero1]

Again, it's talking about people *living* in the West Bank. That means settlers vs. Palestinians. It's pretty much impossible for that to NOT be a racial issue, unless you're aware of some Arab-Israeli settlements that enjoy the same freedom of movement as Jewish-Israeli settlers I'm not aware of. If you're Jewish and you live in the West Bank (which almost by default means you're a settler) you have a degree of freedom that other people living in the West Bank do not have. Again, is that incorrect?

This is correct.

Palestinians living in the West Bank barely have freedom to travel from city to city. You can be rejected from crossing through a checkpoint for whatever bs reason. This is within the West Bank and not inside Israel.

 

[kmax]

I think Mr. Finkelstein breaks down the situation quite lucidly.

Fantastic analysis.

 

[Akainu]

Then why doesn't the media call out the racism,
if they call out any racism done by some celebrity?

It just doesn't make sense.

Are all those facts 100% correct?
I know that sometimes the truth gets bent.

They don't even care that people are being killed forget about racism.

 

[Goliath]

Again, it's talking about people *living* in the West Bank. That means settlers vs. Palestinians. It's pretty much impossible for that to NOT be a racial issue, unless you're aware of some Arab-Israeli settlements that enjoy the same freedom of movement as Jewish-Israeli settlers I'm not aware of. If you're Jewish and you live in the West Bank (which almost by default means you're a settler) you have a degree of freedom that other people living in the West Bank do not have. Again, is that incorrect?

I am pretty sure the settlers are still on paper Israeli citizens and when Israel pulled back the settlements in Gaza and demolished their buildings I am pretty sure those settlers were sent back to Israel. So yes they live in West Bank willingly and still have Israeli citizenship. Just like the Arabs in Israel can go to the beach just fine without any problem. As I said even if a Palestinian converted to Judiasm they still couldn't go through the green path which means that pic is false. It's not religion it's citizenship.

Why arent palestinians isreali citizens?

That is a complicated question. It's probably the same answer as to why they are not citizens of Egypt or Jordan. These countries don't want 2 million refugees in their country. I mean they voted in Hamas into government. The fear is that with such a large amount of extremist muslim citizens, when it came down to vote, an extremist muslim Arab party could be elected and Israel would just be yet another unstable extremist Arab country that marginalizes and kills it's minority groups. Right now Muslims, Christians and Jews can all live and work together peacefully. Israel regardless of what some people here want you to believe is rather secular, especially compared to it's neighbors. So yea, even Palestinians Arab neighbors don't wanna take them in.

 

[maharg]

I am pretty sure the settlers are still on paper Israeli citizens and when Israel pulled back the settlements in Gaza and demolished their buildings I am pretty sure those settlers were sent back to Israel. So yes they live in West Bank willingly and still have Israeli citizenship. Just like the Arabs in Israel can go to the beach just fine without any problem. As I said even if a Palestinian converted to Judiasm they still couldn't go through the green path which means that pic is false. It's not religion it's citizenship.

...

You're right, I give up. If the infograph is about a whole other thing than what it's actually about, it's wrong. Silly me.

 

[Dominican Power]

Yeah there's hardly been a murderous dictatorship the US hasn't propped up at one point or another. It does normally end up biting them in the arse, Iran being my current favourite "unintended side-effect", overtaking that whole backing of Saddam back in the 80's.

What did the US do to make them Iran radical?

 

[Enosh]

Again, it's talking about people *living* in the West Bank. That means settlers vs. Palestinians. It's pretty much impossible for that to NOT be a racial issue, unless you're aware of some Arab-Israeli settlements that enjoy the same freedom of movement as Jewish-Israeli settlers I'm not aware of. If you're Jewish and you live in the West Bank (which almost by default means you're a settler) you have a degree of freedom that other people living in the West Bank do not have. Again, is that incorrect?

don't settlers have Israeli citizenship?
the problem is with them being in the west bank not that they can easily go to Israel

Israel enforcing it's borders and not letting through people they don't want to is perfectly fine with me, what i have issues with is that they don't allow the west bank and gaza to do the same and not only that they let their own people into those places to build houses on land that isn't theirs with the Palestinians having no say in enforcing their borders

 

[Linkhero1]

I am pretty sure the settlers are still on paper Israeli citizens and when Israel pulled back the settlements in Gaza and demolished their buildings I am pretty sure those settlers were sent back to Israel. So yes they live in West Bank willingly and still have Israeli citizenship. Just like the Arabs in Israel can go to the beach just fine without any problem. As I said even if a Palestinian converted to Judiasm they still couldn't go through the green path which means that pic is false. It's not religion it's citizenship.

So what's this Law of Return that I keep hearing about?

 

[collige]

The islamic jihad are already in gaza. IMHO they are even worse than hamas. So toppling the hamas might not be a smart idea.
The best possible outcome for israel would be a joint hamas-fatah government that can sign a treaty that will be respected by all palestinians and not just a single faction.

Too bad Israel backed out of peace negotiations when the Hamas-Fatah alliance was formed.

 

[maharg]

don't settlers have Israeli citizenship?
the problem is with them being in the west bank not that they can easily go to Israel

Yes, that *is* a big part of the problem. But the end result is that there is a legal double standard in the occupied territories. Israeli settlers have a different legal reality from the Palestinians under occupation. However that has come about and whatever needs to happen to end it, that's what the infograph is showing.

 

[kmag]

What did the US do to make them Iran radical?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état

Overthrew a democratically elected government with a puppet autocrat monarch who went a wee bit hog wild with his secret police http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK aside from being a pretty poor ruler who basically ran the country for the benefit for Western Oil concerns. Which ultimately led to the Iranian revolution in 1979 and the imposition of radical Islamic rule.

Wasn't just the US, the UK was also up to it's eyeballs in it.

 

[soul]

SMH. Can't seem to find a reliable image host.

Italian reporter posts on Twitter the Shifa/Shati attack was due to Hamas rockets.

https://twitter.com/gabrielebarbati/status/494131918732926976
https://twitter.com/gabrielebarbati/status/494132184257527808

 

[Goliath]

So what's this Law of Return that I keep hearing about?

The Law of Return 5710-1950 was enacted by the Knesset, Israel's Parliament, on July 5, 1950. The Law declares the right of Jews to come to Israel: "Every Jew has the right to come to this country as an oleh." Follow-up legislation on immigration matters was contained in the Nationality Law of 1952. The Law of Return was modified in 1970 to extend the right of return to non-Jews with a Jewish grandparent, and their spouses.

The law since 1970 applies to those born Jews (having a Jewish mother or maternal grandmother), those with Jewish ancestry (having a Jewish father or grandfather) and converts to Judaism (Orthodox, Reform, or Conservative denominations—not secular—though Reform and Conservative conversions must take place outside the state, similar to civil marriages).

 

[Linkhero1]

The Law of Return 5710-1950 was enacted by the Knesset, Israel's Parliament, on July 5, 1950. The Law declares the right of Jews to come to Israel: "Every Jew has the right to come to this country as an oleh." Follow-up legislation on immigration matters was contained in the Nationality Law of 1952. The Law of Return was modified in 1970 to extend the right of return to non-Jews with a Jewish grandparent, and their spouses.

The law since 1970 applies to those born Jews (having a Jewish mother or maternal grandmother), those with Jewish ancestry (having a Jewish father or grandfather) and converts to Judaism (Orthodox, Reform, or Conservative denominations—not secular—though Reform and Conservative conversions must take place outside the state, similar to civil marriages).

So essentially those Palestinians who convert will be able to go in and out of Israel, am I correct in that assumption?

 

[MacNille]

The Law of Return 5710-1950 was enacted by the Knesset, Israel's Parliament, on July 5, 1950. The Law declares the right of Jews to come to Israel: "Every Jew has the right to come to this country as an oleh." Follow-up legislation on immigration matters was contained in the Nationality Law of 1952. The Law of Return was modified in 1970 to extend the right of return to non-Jews with a Jewish grandparent, and their spouses.

The law since 1970 applies to those born Jews (having a Jewish mother or maternal grandmother), those with Jewish ancestry (having a Jewish father or grandfather) and converts to Judaism (Orthodox, Reform, or Conservative denominations—not secular—though Reform and Conservative conversions must take place outside the state, similar to civil marriages).

So can I go as my grandmothers father was a jew?

 

[sindbadthesailor]

Israel’s Irish embassy deletes picture of Molly Malone in niqab

But don't call them racist.

 

[Goliath]

Yes, that *is* a big part of the problem. But the end result is that there is a legal double standard in the occupied territories. Israeli settlers have a different legal reality from the Palestinians under occupation. However that has come about and whatever needs to happen to end it, that's what the infograph is showing.

No, the infograph tries to correlate passing the Israeli controlled boarder with what particular religious faith you are which is wrong. A Jewish Palestinian couldn't take the green path to the beach and an Arab Muslim who happened to be an Iraeli citizen and if so chose to be a settler in West Bank could take the green path because he has an Israeli passport. Obviously there are probably no Arab Muslim Israeli settlers but the point is the ease of movement is completly dependent on citizenship and not faith which the infograph falsly tries to portray.

 

[Linkhero1]

No, the infograph tries to correlate passing the Israeli controlled boarder with what particular religious faith you are which is wrong. A Jewish Palestinian couldn't take the green path to the beach and an Arab Muslim who happened to be an Iraeli citizen and if so chose to be a settler in West Bank could take the green path because he has an Israeli passport. Obviously there are probably no Arab Muslim Israeli settlers but the point is the ease of movement is completly dependent on citizenship and not faith which the infograph falsly tries to portray.

Based on Law of Return this isn't true. Jewish Palestinians should still be able to go in and out of Israel with ease.

 

[Dude Abides]

No, the infograph tries to correlate passing the Israeli controlled boarder with what particular religious faith you are which is wrong. A Jewish Palestinian couldn't take the green path to the beach and an Arab Muslim who happened to be an Iraeli citizen and if so chose to be a settler in West Bank could take the green path because he has an Israeli passport. Obviously there are probably no Arab Muslim Israeli settlers but the point is the ease of movement is completly dependent on citizenship and not faith which the infograph falsly tries to portray.

If you convert to Judaism you get Israeli citizenship.

 

[Quotient]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état

Overthrew a democratically elected government with a puppet autocrat monarch who went a wee bit hog wild with his secret police http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK aside from being a pretty poor ruler who basically ran the country for the benefit for Western Oil concerns. Which ultimately led to the Iranian revolution in 1979 and the imposition of radical Islamic rule.

Wasn't just the US, the UK was also up to it's eyeballs in it.

The UK pushed for it, they tried to convince the US to join them but Truman wouldn't go for it, but Eisenhower did. It is probably the biggest mistake the US has made in the middle-east.

 

[maharg]

No, the infograph tries to correlate passing the Israeli controlled boarder with what particular religious faith you are which is wrong. A Jewish Palestinian couldn't take the green path to the beach and an Arab Muslim who happened to be an Iraeli citizen and if so chose to be a settler in West Bank could take the green path because he has an Israeli passport. Obviously there are probably no Arab Muslim Israeli settlers but the point is the ease of movement is completly dependent on citizenship and not faith which the infograph falsly tries to portray.

Jewish is an ethnicity as well as a religious affiliation, and the infograph is not referring specifically to religion. And I'm not sure there even is such a thing as a "Jewish Palestinian" who doesn't hold or have the right to Israeli citizenship. All of this is just equivocation to try to pretend that the actual reality is an illusion because *technically* there might be a few exceptions to it.

If you're an Arab in the West Bank your freedom of movement is restricted heavily.
If you're a Jew (ethnically or religiously) in the West Bank your freedom of movement is not restricted at all.

This is the fact on the ground. That it's citizenship through which one is granted the right that the other lacks is irrelevant if that citizenship is impossible to obtain and Israel maintains the rule of law in the West Bank.

 

[Goliath]

So essentially those Palestinians who convert will be able to go in and out of Israel, am I correct in that assumption?

Not that simple. They want proof that you have Jewish ancestry so they will look back into your parents and grandparents. This actually was established to aid a lot of Jewish refugees in finding a safe place. If you look at the demographic a huge amount of Israeli European Jews came from the former USSR. Most wanted to go to the U.S. but getting into Israel was significantly easier.

So can I go as my grandmothers father was a jew?

I am pretty sure they want to make sure you and your family are still and have been practicing Jews. If it ended with your grandmother's father then I assume no.

 

[Linkhero1]

Not that simple. They want proof that you have Jewish ancestry so they will look back into your parents and grandparents. This actually was established to aid a lot of Jewish refugees in finding a safe place. If you look at the demographic a huge amount of Israeli European Jews came from the former USSR. Most wanted to go to the U.S. but getting into Israel was significantly easier.

The process might take time but they're still able to go through it once and it will become easier the second time they request visa, so essentially they're still able to take the green path. Am I correct?

Jewish is an ethnicity as well as a religious affiliation, and the infograph is not referring specifically to religion. And I'm not sure there even is such a thing as a "Jewish Palestinian" who doesn't hold or have the right to Israeli citizenship. All of this is just equivocation to try to pretend that the actual reality is an illusion because *technically* there might be a few exceptions to it.

If you're an Arab in the West Bank your freedom of movement is restricted heavily.
If you're a Jew (ethnically or religiously) in the West Bank your freedom of movement is not restricted at all.

This is the fact on the ground. That it's citizenship through which one is granted the right that the other lacks is irrelevant if that citizenship is impossible to obtain and Israel maintains the rule of law in the West Bank.

Again, you are correct.

 

[Zombie James]

I think Mr. Finkelstein breaks down the situation quite lucidly.

Fantastic analysis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw7FJ9y8m4M

He tells it like it is.

 

[Goliath]

Jewish is an ethnicity as well as a religious affiliation, and the infograph is not referring specifically to religion. And I'm not sure there even is such a thing as a "Jewish Palestinian" who doesn't hold or have the right to Israeli citizenship. All of this is just equivocation to try to pretend that the actual reality is an illusion because *technically* there might be a few exceptions to it.

If you're an Arab in the West Bank your freedom of movement is restricted heavily.
If you're a Jew (ethnically or religiously) in the West Bank your freedom of movement is not restricted at all.

This is the fact on the ground. That it's citizenship through which one is granted the right that the other lacks is irrelevant if that citizenship is impossible to obtain and Israel maintains the rule of law in the West Bank.

Jew as an ethnicity is still very debated and not all Jews feel they are a race. Hitler did and some Jews do but not all.

Palestine is a region and Palestinians are just the people who live in that region. I don't think you understand. The boarder patrol in Israel don't let you in just because you claim your Jewish. If you walk up there without any paperwork your not getting in, plain and simple, Rabbi or not. So is there a path to citizenship if you are Jewish to Israel? Yes. Is that what the infograph is talking about? NO. Does every person who is Jewish just get into Israel automatically, nope there is a board that decides if you get citizenship like every other country.

So as I said and I don't know how you can refute, just being Jewish (as the graph portrays) does not get you passed boarder patrol. The settlers are Israeli citizens and that fact is the only thing that allows them to move around easily. Without that fact their faith is irrelevant. It's not Jews or Arabs that factor in to ease of movement just citizenship.

As for Palestinians getting citizenship being impossible. Is it surprising in this climate. Heck I haven't even heard anything from the reps in Gaza and West Bank showing interest in being a part of Israel.

 

[Jag]

SMH. Can't seem to find a reliable image host.

Italian reporter posts on Twitter the Shifa/Shati attack was due to Hamas rockets.

https://twitter.com/gabrielebarbati/status/494131918732926976
https://twitter.com/gabrielebarbati/status/494132184257527808

Wow. Also surprising coming from an Italian where Italy is a hotbed of european anti-semitism right now.

This part tells the real story though:

Out of #Gaza far from #Hamas retaliation

Which is why anything coming from Gaza is questionable.

 

[Goliath]

Based on Law of Return this isn't true. Jewish Palestinians should still be able to go in and out of Israel with ease.

If you convert to Judaism you get Israeli citizenship.

No and no. There is a process to get citizenship in Israel if you are Jewish. Just like in every other country however you have to go through the process, get approved and then get citizenship before you have that ease of movement. Just being Jewish doesn't mean you automatically get in, you have a better chance but have to prove you are and have a family history of being Jewish. It's a process so just converting doesn't do anything unless Israel agrees to take you.

 

[maharg]

Jew as an ethnicity is still very debated and not all Jews feel they are a race. Hitler did and some Jews do but not all.

Palestine is a region and Palestinians are just the people who live in that region. I don't think you understand. The boarder patrol in Israel don't let you in just because you claim your Jewish. If you walk up there without any paperwork your not getting in, plain and simple, Rabbi or not. So is there a path to citizenship if you are Jewish to Israel? Yes. Is that what the infograph is talking about? NO. Does every person who is Jewish just get into Israel automatically, nope there is a board that decides if you get citizenship like every other country.

So as I said and I don't know how you can refute, just being Jewish (as the graph portrays) does not get you passed boarder patrol. The settlers are Israeli citizens and that fact is the only thing that allows them to move around easily. Without that fact their faith is irrelevant. It's not Jews or Arabs that factor in to ease of movement just citizenship.

As for Palestinians getting citizenship being impossible. Is it surprising in this climate. Heck I haven't even heard anything from the reps in Gaza and West Bank showing interest in being a part of Israel.

So basically if it said "Israeli" or perhaps "Settler" instead of Jewish in the top left corner, you'd agree this Infograph was correct? I could agree with that, but it still doesn't diminish the point that there are two separate *and* unequal populations existing in the West Bank, and that separation is imposed by a military occupation. The point is still valid.

And again, it really doesn't matter if they want Israeli citizenship or not. The point is the different legal reality they exist under.

 

[Linkhero1]

^^ Hell, Palestinians living in the West Bank can't move freely in the West Bank.

No and no. There is a process to get citizenship in Israel if you are Jewish. Just like in every other country however you have to go through the process, get approved and then get citizenship before you have that ease of movement. Just being Jewish doesn't mean you automatically get in, you have a better chance but have to prove you are and have a family history of being Jewish. It's a process so just converting doesn't do anything unless Israel agrees to take you.

Again, I'm not talking about the process length, but once they are granted visa or whatever they are able to freely move around, correct? So in theory anyone who converts is able to move freely if they get the proper paperwork done. I'd love to read about people who practice Judaism who have been barred entry to Israel because it seems so rare to me.

 

[Goliath]

The process might take time but they're still able to go through it once and it will become easier the second time they request visa, so essentially they're still able to take the green path. Am I correct?



Again, you are correct.

I don't know how long the process is before they get a visa or become a citizen. I also don't know what limitation exist. Either way the green path is for Israeli citizens not just Jews. Those can be Jewish, Muslim or Christian which exist in Israel.

I mean can we just agree that if people have to explain that stupid picture this much that it is inaccurate and oversimplified. How many pictures must we go through before we just admit that you can't grasp the complex situation there through a few pictures?

 

[Dude Abides]

No and no. There is a process to get citizenship in Israel if you are Jewish. Just like in every other country however you have to go through the process, get approved and then get citizenship before you have that ease of movement. Just being Jewish doesn't mean you automatically get in, you have a better chance but have to prove you are and have a family history of being Jewish. It's a process so just converting doesn't do anything unless Israel agrees to take you.

If you convert you are entitled to citizenship. That there is a process by which you have to verify your conversion does not make that untrue in any way.

I mean can we just agree that if people have to explain that stupid picture this much that it is inaccurate and oversimplified. How many pictures must we go through before we just admit that you can't grasp the complex situation there through a few pictures?

The only reason we have to explain it "so much" is because you are flyspecking it because you dislike the implication.