They do it to elicit a reaction.
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Anita Sarkeesian: 'What I Couldn't Say'
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They do it to elicit a reaction.
VARIA
Member
I totally agree with this. These companies need to invest in proper moderation.
Which is why it doesn't work.
Different levels of feminism and not all of them see eye to eye. No problem with her venting her frustration.
Wow, when I made the thread I did so without even looking at the videos comments
YouTube comments are always so awful I'm at the point now where i've forgotten they exist because it's been so long since i've looked at any
I guess it was an oversight on the channels part leaving them on, the channel is really good for interesting debates and lectures btw
Anyway, from a personal level going though what she's had to go though would kill me, all this just to have a debate about an issue in video games
benicillin
Banned
That's such a negative way of looking at things. It's important to keep things in perspective - the problem with the Internet is that the loudest voices are the ones you hear, but the vast majority of people are good. Look at PAX and GDC - I didn't get to attend either this year, but I know that it was a breath of fresh air and a reassurance that our hobby is a welcoming place.
ActuallyHulk
Banned
I won't lie. I disagree with a number of her points. No, I really do. I truly, honestly, and in every way don't care one bit about rescuing Peach for the thousandth time or bikini armor in serious games. However she has every right to share her beliefs. She, and I'm assuming most of the people here, live in a place where we are allowed to speak up against things that are or are perceived as wrong, dangerous, what have you. This of course does extend to people on the other side of Anita, but they could really stand to be civil if they want to be taken seriously and not completely reviled. I wish people would stop treating this like a full scale war and more like a civil debate that it could be. Of course there are civil and uncivil people on both sides, but yeah.
Interesting and maddening. Mostly because its hard to say outside, especially when you care about the issue but dont want to end up in the pointless circlejerk totem creation he describes.
and my AX!
Wait we're not quoiting FotR.
Tangential question, which one of the poor new mods gets Anita thread duty?
Yeah, I agree with this.
I hate that simply trying to open the subject of how our hobby views women has resulted in such a hateful reaction. The discussion should be important to everyone, regardless of where they sit.
I guess I'm biased 'cause I'm an SJW...
What is true is that the subculture around our hobby harbored and excused this for MUCH longer than would be expected. It is an important and real consideration and one of many reasons harassment should not be excused as "lol, internet, it happens"
autoduelist
Member
You're absolutely correct that the comments and other stuff are reprehensible.
You're absolutely correct that if people acted like this in 'real life' they'd be shunned, if not punched in the nose.
Where you're wrong is linking it to gaming. Go to the comment section on youtube for anything -- beatboxing, dancing, music, 'challenges', etc... and you'll see the same exact behavior.
Go to ANY political article ever and read the comment section and you will find the most vile, disgusting, reprehensible comments ever -- ones that will give these a run for their money because some of them are clearly serious and not arguably trolling. Articles on shootings, robberies, or the weather -- anything that has any political connotations, will be full of racial/ethic/gender based slurs thicker than you can believe.
The internet is anonymous and we've learned anonymity breeds toxicity. Even when not 'anonymous' (such as facebook login required) you'll see people making horrific comments on various topics -- at least, I'd hope they didn't say those things out loud. This is a problem with humanity, and our society, not specifically with gaming. It's not a 'bullshit' and 'lazy' response to point this out --- if anything it's lazy to attribute it to 'gamers' when it's a widespread epidemic online in most forums/comment sections.
I am not defending a single person posting that toxicity. It's foul and disgusting and makes the world a worse place. I don't understand why people feel the need to poke hate at people, or make death threats, or anything else. But as long as people keep pointing the finger at a specific subgroup (in this case, gamers) rather than study the issue as a whole, it causes unnecessary pushback as all the normal, sane individuals in said subgroup will feel attacked as well, which you see in every single thread like this. We do not pretend that vile racism and sexism is an issue for 'people into politics' even though political comment sections are thick with it... we understand it's a bigger issue, and this is an extremely deep rooted issue. It's either a flaw in our society, or humanity in general. It's foul and toxic. But it is not, sadly, limited to one tiny demographic no matter how much we may hope it was.
Also of note, any 'hot button' issue like this will pull people out of the woodwork who don't care what the topic is, but just want to agitate people. If people were bent out of shape in a cookie forum, they'd be there hurling insults. Assuming everyone saying everything is part of the actual demographic is flawed as well... this kind of thing brings out the worst in the worst people.
I agree. It isn't necessarily the anonymity. Moreso, it's the immediacy. Posting in an asynchronous environment is akin to utilizing a weaponized satellite to fire a spitball at someone's head from half a world away.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Some serious therapy is long overdue for some.
You are over thinking this. Your against harassment right? Then that's it. Doesn't matter what your opinions on her are but at least help stop harassment.
The line in which someone starts to be an SJW is very low. Apparently calling out Rush Limbaugh for being a racist prick makes you an SJW now.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The kind of people who make up Gamergate and "boy's club" or "frat guy" gaming almost certainly have more issues contributing to their attitudes than just the games they play. But for a long time now the media they consume has bent over backwards to exploit and pander to them.
This stuff is an internet issue, and a cultural issue, because there are many factors contributing to the nature of a whole generation of hostile, angry young people. It is also a gaming issue because so much of the games industry decided the way forward for profit and expansion was to target a particular audience and damn the consequences.
That is an excellent video, and probably should be in the orientation kit for using the internet.
To a degree, the problem isn't anonymity, but separation from consequences. Or the perception of it. Plenty of people involved with Gamergate, for example, proudly declare who and what they are. Or they don't bother going through much trouble to hide their legal identity to anyone who really cares. Though it has been said that there is a difference between anonymity and pseudonymity. Control over what part of one's identity to display to the world is a crucial tool and taking it away would result in great collateral damage and further repression for many persons.
This stuff is an internet issue, and a cultural issue, because there are many factors contributing to the nature of a whole generation of hostile, angry young people. It is also a gaming issue because so much of the games industry decided the way forward for profit and expansion was to target a particular audience and damn the consequences.
That is an excellent video, and probably should be in the orientation kit for using the internet.
To a degree, the problem isn't anonymity, but separation from consequences. Or the perception of it. Plenty of people involved with Gamergate, for example, proudly declare who and what they are. Or they don't bother going through much trouble to hide their legal identity to anyone who really cares. Though it has been said that there is a difference between anonymity and pseudonymity. Control over what part of one's identity to display to the world is a crucial tool and taking it away would result in great collateral damage and further repression for many persons.
Popular site that didn't allow for stupidity to take over but allowed (and still does) people to voice their opinions on the matter. NeoGAF is good people overall
The story goes longer than this, thats why I only posted the link. In other words, read dude.
That Gamergaters use this abuse rather to attack feminists and other victims of abuse, instead of the guys who did it and the culture which contributed to it, says enough.
TheSlySoul
Member
I am right in the middle with I am cool with change, but have no issues with games falling into stereotypes as well..
So I feel like I have no real say in the manner. The reason Peach annoys me because the RPG games did her better.
No, its not, these games were designed to appeal to, bring in, and monetize those kinds of people.
To, and again, I roughly quote 'Carefully cultivate and profit off their sense of entitlement'.
IDKAboutThat
Member
Why do so many people think threatening to murder someone you disagree with is okay? And then they don't get the irony of calling her a feminazi afterwards?
realalbedo
Banned
I look at these comments on Youtube and it makes me wonder who are these people? How they can possible exist, and how can they interact with people in real world? Living in western society with mindset like that? Some of them probably have a social life, maybe they even intreact with women. How can they possible don't see what's wrong with their mind.
ShadowKingpin
Member
I can't stand Anita, but I do absolutely respect her for coming out and fully expressing her frustrations with the harassers.
sensui-tomo
Member
Its like twitter, as in " you'd never understand why you were friends with that person once you saw their social media accounts" People will act different behind closed doors, the only way i can see this diminishing is like what someone said a few pages back, getting rid of anonymity, which wont happen, and I fear that would actually cause more issues before the transition would happen.
zenosparadox
Member
I can get pretty down on the human race, but I've since realized that this viewpoint is too narrow. I hate generalizations because they are most often applied to a stereotype (which may or may not be accurate) or a small group of people (see: vocal minority).
All of the reasonable people are busy dealing with the stress of their own lives that they do not the time nor the inclination to spout vitriol over the internet to a bunch of strangers. It is my belief that this kind of person far outnumbers the isolated, borderline psychopaths that are willing to call in a bomb threat or get your personal info and issue death threats.
The crazed get all of the attention, and I wish this was not the case.
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, she didn't have to talk about other feminists and what they're not doing bit rather should have focused on why thos porn actress needed help and how people could help her and victims like her.
giant_frying_pan
Member
I'm in awe at her courage. It's remarkable the amount of bile she's able to take. Doesn't excuse one iota of it of course.
She, and her contemporaries, will eventually lead to a better industry and hopefully one that I'm always proud of, rather than sometimes ashamed of.
She, and her contemporaries, will eventually lead to a better industry and hopefully one that I'm always proud of, rather than sometimes ashamed of.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I reconcile my thoughts with the idea that the majority of those posters are juvenile teens/manchildren/womenchildren who wear one face online and wear another in real life.
I dunno, there are plenty of Gaffers who browse during their office hours.
I'm guilty of it.
LookAtMeGo
Member
They probably only act that way on the internet. I bet none of these pukes have the balls to talk the way they do in real life. Everyones a tough guy hiding behind internet anonymity.
Here's one more closely related to the subject matter.Basically to all the people who've harassed her
I don't think she is a philosophical beacon, she's made mistakes in her points. But it's incredible that people aren't okay with her being wrong. She's working to solve problems that exist, and don't disappear just because someone get's some nuance wrong. They had to tear her down and make an example of her, instead of joining the debate and progressing things together alongside Sarkeesian. I think this is the big distinguisher. Some people just want to have enemies. They feel she is so incredibly in the wrong to offend them by her words, that they don't even realize they do her much worse.
Palette Swap
Member
Did you?
Because "It's convenient that if you need any proof that she's not just making up all the shit she gets, all you need to do is scroll down to the comments section." doesn't necessarily mean everything in that "shit" is a federal offense, just that there's too much shit directly hurled at her, not on a remote part of the Internet she might not read.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I think it's more important to examine the underlying causes of human motivation driving stuff like this rather than merely try to suppress people from expressing unfavorable opinions. They don't really go away.
Complaining about the media is asking for a band-aid.
keltickennedy
Member
Those youtube comments are full on dark side. They don't really seem like fans of Gaf either. lol.
Matt Attack
Member
Painful, but good watch. It's heartbreaking just imagining what she's gone through.
The fact that those sort of people hate GAF just makes me feel better about GAF.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
B b but she misrepresented Hitman the video game! Such a grave injustice needs to be answered for!
nrvalleytime
Member
Quoting so this isn't overlooked.
See ya. Death threats and harassment aren't moneymakers. Should probably work on that cause and effect chain.
This is Poe's in action, right?
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Looks like Chico will indeed become Quiet really soon...
Wow.
I'm confused. you wish people would stop trying to silence Anita with harassment?
My suggestion is to get to the root cause as it relates to gaming culture. When online, don't act as if saying stupid shit is ok. report abusive behavior. leave the game. w/e. don't act like its normal or ok.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I didn't know running a not for profit now equates making money off of harassment.
jim-jam bongs
Member
I wish I'd known that this was on, definitely would have tried to attend. I'm glad that Anita appears to be enjoying her time in Australia, hope she gets to take some time out and get a photo with a koala or something.
not_so_special
Banned
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