EzekelRAGE
Member
Also, I'm assuming the vote thing with SD has something to do with what happened last night?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ace Attorney [Mafia] |OT| Turnabout Scum
- Thread starter Sorian
- Start date
Also, I'm assuming the vote thing with SD has something to do with what happened last night?
CornBurrito
Member
Your posts at the start of the today, and especially page 8. Not any specific post really, but the sum of them just has an "off" feel.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Fair enough. You have to play these early days based off of those "off" feelings so I can understand this.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
I'm just going to preface this by saying that I think neither Corn nor Ezekel is suspicious, and that I am very confident in that thought. Perhaps my opinion will change in the future, but at the moment I am factoring both of them as benevolent forces in my playbook.
Some callouts:
Worthy, you should engage yourself more with the conversation. Looking back at your post history there's a lot of idle commentary and questions in regards to roles or potential game mechanics, but very few actual reads or suspicions. That's not enough to indict guilt, but it's something that I'm going to keep an eye on moving forward.
RedFalco, Hipster_Cthulhu and Ri'Orious, I barely know anything about you, your opinions, or your playstyles and that's a bad thing. Please try and be more present if you can; even if you're just vanilla & powerless you can still aid in the discourse. Who knows, maybe you'll even notice something everyone else missed!
MattAttack, Stanley, Star and Zubz: none of you have voted yet, and as per my promise I'll now being keeping a closer watch on all of you.
VOTE: Xamtheking
Your behaviour this game has been most peculiar, if I do say so. From posting reads lists with no reasoning and then seemingly inventing flimsy reasons later to being very fluffy and passive, I do believe that something's up with you.
Plus we're on day two and you haven't claimed ordinary yet, which means something's definitely up!
.gif)
Some callouts:
Worthy, you should engage yourself more with the conversation. Looking back at your post history there's a lot of idle commentary and questions in regards to roles or potential game mechanics, but very few actual reads or suspicions. That's not enough to indict guilt, but it's something that I'm going to keep an eye on moving forward.
RedFalco, Hipster_Cthulhu and Ri'Orious, I barely know anything about you, your opinions, or your playstyles and that's a bad thing. Please try and be more present if you can; even if you're just vanilla & powerless you can still aid in the discourse. Who knows, maybe you'll even notice something everyone else missed!
MattAttack, Stanley, Star and Zubz: none of you have voted yet, and as per my promise I'll now being keeping a closer watch on all of you.
VOTE: Xamtheking
Your behaviour this game has been most peculiar, if I do say so. From posting reads lists with no reasoning and then seemingly inventing flimsy reasons later to being very fluffy and passive, I do believe that something's up with you.
Plus we're on day two and you haven't claimed ordinary yet, which means something's definitely up!
TheWorthyEdge
Member
I believe I have had some decent suspicions but I will make a reads list right now to show where I stand.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Scrafty, the stuff about you noticin stuff last night was what crimson said about me?
ScraftyDevil
Banned
Basically, yeah. Thought it seemed funny in retrospect, but I guess it turned out to be a false hunch.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
My reads:
Bowlie- with a post count of 14 can't really go off of much, but I don't think he's scum. Voted for Kalor based off of his own thoughts.
CornBurrito- with how active he is, nearly always adding something to the conversation I can't help but think he's town or a scum trying super hard trying to fit in; I'm thinking the former.
Crimsonfist- with the highest post count: BRAVO! I'm not entirely sold on you yet though, you mostly prod.
EzekelRAGE- though I had my suspicions I believe you are town.
Hipster Cthulhu- You were one that I feel like was a bandwagon vote for Kalor, and added to the fact that you don't post much doesn't sit well with me.
Matt Attack- you come in here from time to time posting reads, but no specific evidence. I think you could be scum.
Drago- I was a firm believer that QBro was a scum but I don't want to base what I thought about QBro and place that on you. You made a valid point on the bottom of page 19. Still, gotta keep an eye on you.
Redfalco- low post count but the quality of the posts are good. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I'm thinking good, but you never know. You didn't jump in immediately after you were called out which leads me to believe that you are in good reason.
Ri'Orius- you have a good take on Neutrals and I like that. They may not be on Scum's team but we eliminate them fast. Your posts are substantial enough to be in the clear though, and it's mostly either agreeing or posting about useless stuff more than less.
roytheone- the other person I believe to be a town nearly 100%. You have the same type of mentality as me but you get it out better lol I want you alive at all costs with Scrafty. BUT! You're blackmailed. What that means, we have no clue yet. You're town.
ScraftyDevil- Obviously town.
squidyj- I don't really know what to think about you yet. I think you could be a good target, and I don't exactly trust you. Think you could be scum. You were quite active Day 1 but Day 2 has been a snore.
StanleyPalmtree- You're probably the most "I simply don't know" person in this game. When you post it's about why you don't post more, and asking for more reasoning. The latter isn't terrible but it doesn't add too much.
StarSketch- voted CB and then Kalor. I don't know. You seem a bit jumpy, and try to be too innocent. You 60% believe that CB, CFist, and Squidy are mafia. I think that out of that list squidy is the only one that jumps out at me because CB and Cfist are so vocal, and add good contributions.
TheGoddamn- When you post it's a moderate amount of information. You voted CB because of his head2head mantra of fighting against Zeke, and I don't think that's a good reason to vote for someone. Leaning scum.
Xamtheking- I think you're scum. Like CB said to me, something about what you post just seems off. Can't put my finger on it but when I do I'm going to be vocal about it.
Zubz- Where are you!?! Get back in here! One thing that strikes me off is that you didn't vote yesterday. Who would you have voted for? You haven't said anything in Day 2!
Bowlie- with a post count of 14 can't really go off of much, but I don't think he's scum. Voted for Kalor based off of his own thoughts.
CornBurrito- with how active he is, nearly always adding something to the conversation I can't help but think he's town or a scum trying super hard trying to fit in; I'm thinking the former.
Crimsonfist- with the highest post count: BRAVO! I'm not entirely sold on you yet though, you mostly prod.
EzekelRAGE- though I had my suspicions I believe you are town.
Hipster Cthulhu- You were one that I feel like was a bandwagon vote for Kalor, and added to the fact that you don't post much doesn't sit well with me.
Matt Attack- you come in here from time to time posting reads, but no specific evidence. I think you could be scum.
Drago- I was a firm believer that QBro was a scum but I don't want to base what I thought about QBro and place that on you. You made a valid point on the bottom of page 19. Still, gotta keep an eye on you.
Redfalco- low post count but the quality of the posts are good. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I'm thinking good, but you never know. You didn't jump in immediately after you were called out which leads me to believe that you are in good reason.
Ri'Orius- you have a good take on Neutrals and I like that. They may not be on Scum's team but we eliminate them fast. Your posts are substantial enough to be in the clear though, and it's mostly either agreeing or posting about useless stuff more than less.
roytheone- the other person I believe to be a town nearly 100%. You have the same type of mentality as me but you get it out better lol I want you alive at all costs with Scrafty. BUT! You're blackmailed. What that means, we have no clue yet. You're town.
ScraftyDevil- Obviously town.
squidyj- I don't really know what to think about you yet. I think you could be a good target, and I don't exactly trust you. Think you could be scum. You were quite active Day 1 but Day 2 has been a snore.
StanleyPalmtree- You're probably the most "I simply don't know" person in this game. When you post it's about why you don't post more, and asking for more reasoning. The latter isn't terrible but it doesn't add too much.
StarSketch- voted CB and then Kalor. I don't know. You seem a bit jumpy, and try to be too innocent. You 60% believe that CB, CFist, and Squidy are mafia. I think that out of that list squidy is the only one that jumps out at me because CB and Cfist are so vocal, and add good contributions.
TheGoddamn- When you post it's a moderate amount of information. You voted CB because of his head2head mantra of fighting against Zeke, and I don't think that's a good reason to vote for someone. Leaning scum.
Xamtheking- I think you're scum. Like CB said to me, something about what you post just seems off. Can't put my finger on it but when I do I'm going to be vocal about it.
Zubz- Where are you!?! Get back in here! One thing that strikes me off is that you didn't vote yesterday. Who would you have voted for? You haven't said anything in Day 2!
Xamtheking
Member
Scrafty, I am appaled.
How dare you insituate I have a habit of claiming.
How dare you insituate I have a habit of claiming.
Xamtheking
Member
What you all don't realize is I am pretty dumb
I'm not super good at reading people, or lying
That's why the majority of my posts are fluff
I'm not super good at reading people, or lying
That's why the majority of my posts are fluff
Sorry guys! I was busy for the greater majority of last night, and it took me awhile to catch up. I'm surprised Edgeworth was a Vanilla role, but more importantly, I'm pretty unhappy about our Nick dying, seeing how many powers he had.
I'm still deliberating/re-reading, but for right now, I'm going to say that I think I believe Ezekiel about him being Masque De Masque (Although not because of any evidence or anything; I can just see the character having that power, and being Pro-Justice).
And Edge, I did vote yesterday, for Ezekiel due to the 2 contradictory statements he made about his early vote.
I'm still deliberating/re-reading, but for right now, I'm going to say that I think I believe Ezekiel about him being Masque De Masque (Although not because of any evidence or anything; I can just see the character having that power, and being Pro-Justice).
And Edge, I did vote yesterday, for Ezekiel due to the 2 contradictory statements he made about his early vote.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Oh what the heck? I must have missed this...you said "guess I missed the buzzer?" So I thought you didn't vote! SORRY! Carry on!
To be fair I didn't really read you as scum, I said you were neutral
but I've changed my opinion on how to read certain.... hints and outbursts that come across as a little weird. Coming forward as being blackmailed is something I'm not sure a neutral role is prone to do. I suppose there's a chance a scum player would come forward with that information. It just hasn't beenn my read on you as yet.
StarSketch
Banned
Haven't had a chance to check the thread since last night so I will be voting on this post.
Anyway, some thoughts:
Rage's claim: Leaning Town or Neutral right now, mostly neutral. So:
Vote: EzekielRage
While it would be really great if Rage were Town, there's always the possibility that we're getting played.
Known Night Actions, more for my own personal record keeping than anything else:
Anyway, some thoughts:
Rage's claim: Leaning Town or Neutral right now, mostly neutral. So:
Vote: EzekielRage
While it would be really great if Rage were Town, there's always the possibility that we're getting played.
Known Night Actions, more for my own personal record keeping than anything else:
- ScraftyDevil got some sort of item (ScraftyDevil has no reason to lie about this so its presumably confirmed)
- EzekielRage Stole SquidyJ's vote and now has a double vote today (Confirmed)
- Roy got blackmailed by Shelle DeKiller. (Unconfirmed, will need to wait until another player gets hit with this)
EzekelRAGE
Member
Figure this would help with visualizing what the votes looks like. Yellow is confirmed town. Let me know if I missed something.
could you extrapolate on what you think his win condition would be as neutral?
CornBurrito
Member
Actually, I know we said names weren't super concerning but...
Looking at the names of the dead we have: Gregory Edgeworth (defense attorney, and clear good guy in the game), PW (main character), and Miles Edgeworth (clear good guy pretty much most of the game).
We also have Scrafty who is Pearl.
Masque De Masque is a violation of this trend. I can think of some neutral win condition. I can't really think of the name as being town.
I also think scum was given a list of names, but a neutral wouldn't have been.
I don't think it is worth killing a neutral Ezekiel, based on what I think his win condition might be.
Also there's something I want to discuss. Name claims. Role claims are obviously still a no go. But the thing is that Miles Edgeworth was a VANILLA role. Names are no longer an indication of having a PR or not.
I'd like to bring up the topic of name claiming as a point of discussion. Should we do it? I want to see if this pattern of names holds for other townies. If no other townie comes up with some odd character like M de M well.... I'm more leaning to neutral on him.
CrimsonFist
Member
I'm leaning towards liking the idea of a mass name claim at this point. If we're sure it won't give away town power roles. It also forces scum to lie about their name, which could be a potential avenue to catch them out later, if they claim a role which doesn't line up with whatever name they claimed, or something.
Eeeeh, not a fan. Sure, Miles was a vanilla town, but Phoenix ended up being a pretty powerful PR. So we could be helping scum this way, and like you said, scum will probably have fake role claims so we aren't going to catch a scum with this, AT best a neutral, which isn't worth the risk imo.
Looking at which role Phoenix end up having, I doubt we will be able to make links between names <> powers. He had an objective power that made him....a commuter. That makes no sense fluff wise.
EzekelRAGE
Member
From my understanding, Masque was represented and cleared by Ace of a crime he didn't commit. Also sort of a robin hood type robber.
Also, I want to point out, calling me neutral is kinda like calling me scum, since town can't win with neutrals.
Even though you believe names hold no weight for some inregards to them having a power role, I think they should be withheld. Let's say there is a neutral out there. Maybe you just gave them cause to throw doubt on me and they claim a more town friendly name. Also, you said scum may have been given a list of names, so they would know what was available, so wouldn't really run the risk of getting called out by their real claim. If people go listing their name one by one, it would just give scum a better gauge of who to go after AND what names they could fakeclaim, if they werent given a fake list.
CornBurrito
Member
Though oddly enough M de M has a flavor appropriate power.
CornBurrito
Member
Yeah these are fair points.
Anyway M de M was cleared of a murder charge, but he really was a thief. So he's not a straight hero. Neutral to me makes the most sense thematically.
And as for town being unable to win with neutrals, sometimes neutrals "leave" the game after satisfying their win condition.
Xamtheking
Member
I am on board for a name claim, if that matters.
True, and I don't doubt we have some roles where power matches the name. But, since the PW flip shows that power <> role misaligning is a real possibility, we still can't use that way to try and find scum. Somebody claims a role that doesn't match his name, great, now what, how do we determine if that is because he is scum that fucked up, or because he really has a role that misaligns with his name?
CornBurrito
Member
Yeah... I think name claiming probably won't go anywhere.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Has there been a case where Ace defended a guilty/evil person?
I know neutrals leave the game when their win conditions are met. Still coming forward as a neutral would be a problem for that person.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
I don't know.
I think this could be a pretty interesting development if we do this whole name thing.
I think this could be a pretty interesting development if we do this whole name thing.
Matt Attack
Member
I don't know about name claiming. I mean, I guess I don't mind too much if we reach consensus, but I would be very wary of any possible neutral roles that want to lynch a specific person (like me in Cthulu Mafia.) They'd know who to target then. There's also the possibility of scum having a name list, but I guess we won't know until we try.
Also, since some of you are discussing it, I can easily see Mask*DeMasque being a town role. Yeah, he's a thief, but he's also totally got a heart of gold. I wouldn't be surprised if he was either neutral or town.
Yes, and if that character were in this game, he would almost assuredly be a scum role.
Also, since some of you are discussing it, I can easily see Mask*DeMasque being a town role. Yeah, he's a thief, but he's also totally got a heart of gold. I wouldn't be surprised if he was either neutral or town.
Yes, and if that character were in this game, he would almost assuredly be a scum role.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
I'm against a mass claim at this present juncture. On day 4 or 5 when we've little left to lose? Sure, maybe we could try it. But on Day 2 when we haven't even disposed of any criminals? I'm not a fan. It would practically give them a laundry list of targets to run down based on potential roles, while we're stuck in the dark amidst lies and deception.
StarSketch
Banned
- Copy everyone then leave (not worth killing)
- Survivor (Given how obvious his actions are, it would be really easy for him to get caught by someone)
So, yeah.
UNVOTE
As other people have expressed there's way too many risks involved if we start throwing names willy nilly.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Yea, that play this early only plays into the hand of scum. Gonna be honest, anyone who agreed with it shifted a little in my eyes.
CrimsonFist
Member
Yeah, I kind of realised what a bad idea that would be just after I posted that, but then I had to go out for a bit. There could still be names that tie into power roles in an obvious way, like Dr Hotti could be the doctor for example.
CrimsonFist
Member
Also, going by flavour, MdeM was essentially a "good guy" I'd think that he would be town above anything else.
If I had to sub in for a scum that already got suspicion on him for a very specific thing, I sure as hell will start to behave exactly opposite of that. You would even avoid the normal "why do you suddenly behave so different!" since, well, you are actually a different person
Agreed, Drago himself hasn't been too suspicious, he's been acting the exact opposite of QB but unfortunately he still has to carry QB's baggage. So the bigger part of my reasoning was towards the baggage.
Although after his last post I'm not so sure if he's so innocent.
Yeah, I felt that the likelihood of your vote for me was for me to speak up.
But as far as the second part of your post the bolded is simply not true. QB posted more than once on the matter(as evidenced below). So based off of that, even though the suspicion is minimal, I shall keep my vote as is for now.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Yeah definitely not today for the name call but this could definitely be something for the future.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Yea, the whole idea from CB was very odd. Even the angle of trying to use it to prove I'm neutral at worst would be too big of a risk for town. That play had/has so many advantages for scum. He even states in the same post that scum would/could have a list of safe names.
Name calling would be stupid at this point. Way too soon for anything like that, maybe when we're closer to the end of the game but even then it might not help us all that much.
Yeah I totally missed those posts, I don't have an excuse for that. I was too hasty to post what I posted.
It was a pretty dumb idea, yeah. However, what is more likely? Scum proposing this idea and stepping into the spotlight, or scum sort of low key agreeing on it, avoiding suspicion while still trying to get the plan going?
CornBurrito
Member
Eh it was an idea and I put it up for discussion. Use the discussion as you will.
EzekelRAGE
Member
idk. Couldve been any of the below:
Another gambit
Scum just throwing something out there for discussion
*scum sort of low key agreeing on it, avoiding suspicion while still trying to get the plan going
Scum making this play while making sure other scum are against it publicly
Scum using this to say why would I do an obvious scummy thing
I'm going to have to chime in with the whole "Name Claiming was an awful idea" chain. IIRC, Scum are given a list of unclaimed names (EX: For the Archer game, I remember hearing that KGB players were given the name "Bilbo" if they needed to fake a role claim, as that's a very, very minor character on the show).
Even if the intent was to figure out general alignments, name claiming would've been tantamount to role claiming, since you could probably extrapolate Power Roles from the character names Justice players were giving, and the Injustice players could just say they were, like, Glen Elg, or something. Granted, with Edgeworth being a Vanilla role, I doubt this would've gotten us anywhere. Regardless of intent/effectiveness, however, there's no way that name claiming would have benefited anyone but whoever the "Injust" players are. I know CB may have had the best of intentions, but it just doesn't sit right with me.
However, I'm also bothered a bit by Xam. I mean, I know I'm not one to comment on people not posting much of substance, but Xam actually has a relatively high post count, with almost all of it being filler. By flooding the thread with distractions, he's ultimately benefiting the "Injust" (I hate not having a name for the antagonists that fits the setting yet). I don't know if I'm going to stick with it all day, but for right now, I'm going to vote Xam.
VOTE: Xamtheking
Even if the intent was to figure out general alignments, name claiming would've been tantamount to role claiming, since you could probably extrapolate Power Roles from the character names Justice players were giving, and the Injustice players could just say they were, like, Glen Elg, or something. Granted, with Edgeworth being a Vanilla role, I doubt this would've gotten us anywhere. Regardless of intent/effectiveness, however, there's no way that name claiming would have benefited anyone but whoever the "Injust" players are. I know CB may have had the best of intentions, but it just doesn't sit right with me.
However, I'm also bothered a bit by Xam. I mean, I know I'm not one to comment on people not posting much of substance, but Xam actually has a relatively high post count, with almost all of it being filler. By flooding the thread with distractions, he's ultimately benefiting the "Injust" (I hate not having a name for the antagonists that fits the setting yet). I don't know if I'm going to stick with it all day, but for right now, I'm going to vote Xam.
VOTE: Xamtheking
TheWorthyEdge
Member
This is so inactive!
So, I'm gonna break the ice and vote for who I think is the best vote to me.
VOTE: Xamtheking
Again, it's just a hunch but you don't seem to contribute much info wise.
No one else really stands out as much too me.
Give me more! Give me a read list, give me who you think is suspicious! Anything!
So, I'm gonna break the ice and vote for who I think is the best vote to me.
VOTE: Xamtheking
Again, it's just a hunch but you don't seem to contribute much info wise.
No one else really stands out as much too me.
Give me more! Give me a read list, give me who you think is suspicious! Anything!
EzekelRAGE
Member
Anything on this?
CrimsonFist
Member
Yeah, I read through but didn't really come up with anything significantly worth commenting on at the time. Reading through again though, a few thoughts on both of them:
I think due to his activity and generally reasonable contributions, I'm town reading CB. As I've said, I don't find tunneling especially scummy, since it makes you stand out when you're wrong. There's the name claim thing, but then I agreed with that initially too, and I'm not really sure that it's something scum would propose.
Squidyj is more of a neutral read. He stood out reading as townie at the start of day 1, but his presence since then has been weaker. There's a fair amount of fluff in his comments, but it's not like he's been avoiding scum hunting either, although a lot of his contributions have been mechanics talk, or poking inactive people without calling out anything specific. I think my gut read on him would be: not as townie as I would like.
CrimsonFist
Member
On Xam voters: I can't say that I really disagree with them, I'm just a bit more weary about voting on him because I was confident he was scum in Volcano Island due to lower contributions, and then he wasn't. Bit of a meta reason though, and he's not really done too much to gain confidence this time around.
He's quite an easy target though, whilst there's a bit of bandwaggoning going on, it could be interesting that Scrafty's vote hasn't picked up traction quite as quickly as my vote on Kalor did, although that could also be either due to it being much further from the deadline, or people cautious about bandwaggoning on Scrafty, after we've warned about it a few times.
Also notable that both the people who did jump on after Scrafty also didn't vote on the Kalor wagon.
He's quite an easy target though, whilst there's a bit of bandwaggoning going on, it could be interesting that Scrafty's vote hasn't picked up traction quite as quickly as my vote on Kalor did, although that could also be either due to it being much further from the deadline, or people cautious about bandwaggoning on Scrafty, after we've warned about it a few times.
Also notable that both the people who did jump on after Scrafty also didn't vote on the Kalor wagon.
CrimsonFist
Member
Vote: Xamtheking
TheGoddamn
Member
Scrafty's ultimatum was pretty extreme, and my partner was taking me out yesterday, so I couldn't have participated in the early D2 game. I focused on the most salient aspect of yesterday to me other than the Kalor pileon (which I couldn't have devoted the time for). It's Monday morning (well, noon), and we just woke up, so I'll focus on other issues after we eat.
Well, my thought wasn't so much "is this dude Maya?" as opposed to "Why is he talking about burgers so openly?" -- hence, "blatant breadcrumbing". Anyone can breadcrumb-- it doesn't mean that you're Maya, or that I think you are. I don't think the real Maya would
Going to get some fucking delicious hamburgers tonight.
make such a big show of
eating burgers
I decided not to have burgers. Felt like I had them last night and didn't want them again. Have one for me instead
to the point that it was so explicitly noticed by other players (in the form of quotes). I know better than to fish out a PR claim from someone I think is a real PR. I don't really believe you're Maya, which is why I still voted for you. I read your burger posts as a scum trying to breadcrumb as a contingency. The suggestion of name claims doesn't really help how you smell from my perspective.
squid, I'll post some reads in a bit, after breakfast (at lunchtime).
Xamtheking
Member
I will have a comphrensive reads list tomorrow when I get access to a computer, never fear.
Read lists on mobile are just too much work.
Read lists on mobile are just too much work.