poppedcollar69
Member
Why the fuck not?
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VALVE fires DOTA tourney host, Gabe Newell calls the host "an ass" publicly on Reddit
- Thread starter Abilidebob
- Start date
Why the fuck not?
I don't know, the tone feels like clusterfuck with everything that's happening on it. Seems like he read it well.
Maybe read the theme of the post he's quoting?
In case you won't bother, my post was about how there's no separate, more raw style of casting in Dota, and this is the first case of a problematic cast.
Tobi's racism in a pub game doesn't count for obvious reasons.
Just read the document.
Valve needs to learn how to communicate. This all could've been avoided if Icefrog didn't tell him to "be himself" and if valve let him know what kind of vibe they were going for. The rehearsals should have been greenlit by someone managing before going live with them. Ali seems like he is terrible at management, and a lot of the blame can be traced back to him. Idk how I feel about Gabe shaming James because...
James is an ass. His persona definitely isn't the type of stuff I would want on ESPN representing a 3 million tournament. Dude's jokes only appeal to people with the sense of humor and mental maturity of a 13 year old. If he switched that off, everything probably would've been fine. After the "no porn jokes" warning he should've thought "ok, maybe I shouldn't act like a prepubescent teenage boy" but here we are.
Also, the bit about them not getting paid shocked me. Then I realized they weren't even signed on initially to host. And everyone seems to casually gloss over the fact that they did actually get paid, just after some bargaining. A closed mouth doesn't get fed.
Valve needs to learn how to communicate. This all could've been avoided if Icefrog didn't tell him to "be himself" and if valve let him know what kind of vibe they were going for. The rehearsals should have been greenlit by someone managing before going live with them. Ali seems like he is terrible at management, and a lot of the blame can be traced back to him. Idk how I feel about Gabe shaming James because...
James is an ass. His persona definitely isn't the type of stuff I would want on ESPN representing a 3 million tournament. Dude's jokes only appeal to people with the sense of humor and mental maturity of a 13 year old. If he switched that off, everything probably would've been fine. After the "no porn jokes" warning he should've thought "ok, maybe I shouldn't act like a prepubescent teenage boy" but here we are.
Also, the bit about them not getting paid shocked me. Then I realized they weren't even signed on initially to host. And everyone seems to casually gloss over the fact that they did actually get paid, just after some bargaining. A closed mouth doesn't get fed.
Well, he does sound like a bit of an ass.
I like it when people don't beat around the bush.
(That's one of the reasons I'm sometimes unhappy about the environment of forced "friendliness" on e.g. GAF, but it obviously also has its advantages. Gabe is in the admirable position of not having to give a shit)
I like it when people don't beat around the bush.
(That's one of the reasons I'm sometimes unhappy about the environment of forced "friendliness" on e.g. GAF, but it obviously also has its advantages. Gabe is in the admirable position of not having to give a shit)
poppedcollar69
Member
After the warning about porn jokes he should've known then and there that this is not some shitty twitch lets play stream
So it's acceptable to spew racist garbage in pub games now?
spindoctor
Member
I have to agree. I like 2GD in general but you can tell from how many times he uses the 'Valve told me to be myself' excuse in his treatise that even he understands why he was fired. This is not a BTS tourney where they have webcams livestreaming their casual smack talk 24/7. This is a multimillion dollar production involving hundreds of people in what is possibly the world's biggest Dota 2 market. You should have enough of a sense of occasion to not open with a joke about pornography and whatever else he did.
People who are saying it's Valve's fault for hiring him are kind of right. They knew what kind of person he was and that's why they hadn't worked with him for 2 years. Someone at Valve lobbied to get him hired and so they decided to give him a second chance. And it backfired on them.
Where they really fucked up IMO is hiring Key for the production. Nanyang was a mess and they should have seen this coming. Again, maybe a case of giving them another chance, but this mistake is far more egregious than hiring one wrong host.
poppedcollar69
Member
Doesn't count for obvious reasons oh well ok then
If
The reasons are
Obvious
If
The reasons are
Obvious
Yeah, that's pretty much where I fall. The whole thing has been an utter joke.
I think Gabe and Valve need to realise that there has to be structure for the public facing stuff. I'm sure their equal, work on what you want structure works great for internal projects, but this kind of thing seems to have no oversight at all.
They are obvious if you have basic reading skills.
This is what was quoted and replied to with 'Tobiwan. Ugh'. Tobiwan's racism in a pub game has nothing to do with what I was saying. I did not condone or condemn his pub racism because it is irrelevant to what I was saying.
Why am I even replying to dumb posts?
This is reaching so hard it's practically post-modern.James Harding's Social Commentary said:
The topic of his orgasm isn't suitable for a professional broadcast, regardless of the angelic context you try to cast around it.
As to demeaning (3:30 and on are an example): https://youtu.be/T-7GmWF4cmQ?t=3m30s
He calls Wagamama a "bottom bitch" to Singsing. That they're friendly behind the scenes or that he doesn't hold animus toward gay people doesn't absolve the joke. Doesn't belong on the broadcast.
She.
would you also like it if you were the one fired, and then the CEO of the company you were fired from proceeded to call you names on social media?
Technosteve
Banned
Valve is 100% responsible for the quality of the product they produce. They are running a fucking media company now with a bunch of community members and hired guns.
Hire your own world wide production team
Hire your own analysis give them media training
Hire your own Host with media training
You are selling a product that gets consumed treat it that way you incompentent clods.
Where is my fucking dota sports center for the majors?
Hire your own world wide production team
Hire your own analysis give them media training
Hire your own Host with media training
You are selling a product that gets consumed treat it that way you incompentent clods.
Where is my fucking dota sports center for the majors?
Said it earlier i did not miss him at the last TI5 the people who were hosting and on the panel where a lot more professional at least me i have been watching TI since i think 2012 and every time james was on i would do something else to be honest i never liked his personality and the blunt jokes and what not. But i agree what you are saying Valve tried but it failed so much it made gabe even mad because well from i want saw it was juvenile also embarrassing to watch. I never heard of the Key but good god the summary sounded like a mess to think it was a bigger mess than i thought it would that leaves valve no chance to fire them and learned there lesson for the next time.
I going to make the prediction that James is making the same mistake Fnatic did at TI4. Believe that Valve will not make a followup comment because they are normally seen as having horrible community interaction, and that his google doc will be the last say in the issue.
Watch, tomorrow there is going to be a well written blog post explaining why he was let go in great detail, including details James omitted.
Watch, tomorrow there is going to be a well written blog post explaining why he was let go in great detail, including details James omitted.
I think this is a natural result of the hands off approach that Valve have taken over the years with Dota 2 in regards to tournaments. The vast majority of tournaments have an aspect of banter (see ODPixel) and unprofessional-ism. Even early TIs had this. So you have 99% of the tournaments being unprofessional and then suddenly ask the same people to do a 100% professional tournament with the king of being a smartass in charge.
This experiment that valve did with hands off approach and leaving the community to do everything has failed.
This experiment that valve did with hands off approach and leaving the community to do everything has failed.
You are taking my post too seriously. I wrote this at the end 'You can make anything sound good or bad when people don't know what the fuck they are talking about.' to indicate that I wasn't being 100% serious. That I was making shit up to make this sound good, like how I think you made it sound bad. It was clear that the poster had read your thoughts and were taking them at face value rather than actually reading what was said, and painting a bad picture of the Dota 2 community because of it, a community which I am a part of.
Your criticisms and opinion are of course, valid, but I still feel the negative reactions are overblown.
I will keep that in mind. This is probably why we disagree on this. My experiences and gender have probably made me a bit desensitized to this.
WaterAstro
Member
They don't want to do any of that because it's their "hands off" approach to esports where they just throw money at prize pool and call it done.
This is not a real question - obviously I wouldn't like that, no one would. The thing is, I also wouldn't act like an ass in a professional capacity. That would get pretty much anyone with a real job fired.
ashecitism
Member
They do organize TI mostly in-house though.
what I don't understand is, if Valve have hired this guy since TI2->TI4 and he was told to be himself, what did they honestly expect? Does Icefrog not talk to the rest of valve when making these events? Either way, communication is something valve is really poor at.
I also wish valve described why james was fired in a way that isn't just "he is an ass"
especially now that james responded with 16 pages(?) i feel like this warrants a better response.
I also wish valve described why james was fired in a way that isn't just "he is an ass"
especially now that james responded with 16 pages(?) i feel like this warrants a better response.
Fair enough. I wasn't entirely sure of how deep into your cheek your tongue was, the opening line was baffling.
And I'm not going to give you the stinkeye for not noticing it. Tends not to glide by women as easily because many of his jokes are at our expense, and many of his comments elicit discomfort. He's a creep.
"be yourself" does not mean "act in a way that lacks any kind of self control"
james could easily have been his funny liberal self without making jokes about masturbating to cheap hotel porn and bottom bitches
poppedcollar69
Member
Tobi is racist and he's in casting. U can spin it however u want tho
Tomorrow? They already made their statement, that he's an ass.
And yes, I do know what you mean, and it'll probably happen. Just pointing out the absurdity of the first "statement" by Gabe.
WaterAstro
Member
It's pretty easy to organize an event at the next-door Stadium once a year. Key Arena is such a shit venue.
Have you been to TI in person? They certainly pull it off well for a "shit venue".
What are you talking about? I've been playing/watching DotA for over 10 years now and people like me certainly don't like behavior like this. It's just that the awful part of the community is the loudest but it doesn't mean that they are the community on their own.
And if I take a look at my old banlist, people were way more often banned for leaving than for insults or anything like that.
That was 2 short statements about what is currently happened. I'm expecting something much more fleshed out like this to be posted later:
http://blog.dota2.com/2014/06/6608/
that is true, but he has been like this since forever pretty much, so telling him to be himself while not telling him to relax with those kind of jokes seems very weird to me.
I feel like all of this could have been avoided if valve communicated better.
So why didn't we get this now? Instead of this half-assed name-calling by the goddamn CEO of the company. I expect better by the multi-million dollar company that is Valve.
I haven't been watching today, but isn't that because they don't have 1,5 hour breaks to fill because of production fuckups (because they replaced the production company)?
Omotesando
Member
If you hire an ass, to be a spokesperson for 'a professional pc correct friendly atmosphere type' of hosting, I think there is something wrong in the communication.
It is like hiring Ricky Gervais for the Golden Globes, but ''we're expecting no insults, my dear chap. Because we are a professional company, trying to broaden our viewership.''
People need to know the context that the guy has hosted more than anyone for Valve, since Valve started making tournaments instead of games, and doing it always in the same manner.
I don't know why people are getting hung up and being swayed to James' side when the core of the matter is:
Expectations
Communication
Authority
All 2GD's post is saying he thinks Ali is out to get him, and Icefrog said to be him. That's not a free ticket to say cunt, fuck, talk about disabled porn, Chinese censorship, call someone a bottom bitch, insult production and more. IMO. It sure as hell lightened the drag of the stream though.
The problem is when Bruno tells James "Don't do 'x'", he takes it literal and does the other 5 things that aren't 'x'.
The people who know the most are trying to save the shitshow of a tournament first and foremost by replacing the entire English side production right now.
Expectations
Communication
Authority
All 2GD's post is saying he thinks Ali is out to get him, and Icefrog said to be him. That's not a free ticket to say cunt, fuck, talk about disabled porn, Chinese censorship, call someone a bottom bitch, insult production and more. IMO. It sure as hell lightened the drag of the stream though.
The problem is when Bruno tells James "Don't do 'x'", he takes it literal and does the other 5 things that aren't 'x'.
Money doesn't make communication and understanding instantly happen? And most importantly it's because Valve is extremely understaffed as well.
The people who know the most are trying to save the shitshow of a tournament first and foremost by replacing the entire English side production right now.
I doubt it, unless they're tone deaf. Even if James called Gabe a wanker to his face, any blog post should be around how they're not going to have a disaster of a production at the next event. Any blog post about "Oh, but this guy we hired went and did this!" would look terrible when they clearly have much bigger issues than one caster saying his side.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Esports ain't for me anymore. I might as well get into lacrosse now.
2GD has always been that type of color commentator. I think the shitfest called Shanghai Majors got to him as he tried really hard to fill in those delays between games. Thing is, both parties were at fault as the whole event has been a clusterfuck with no sense of coordination to salvage said event.
Edit: After 4 TI's Valve already knows what type of host 2GD is and it's a bit unfair imo to call him out on his on screen persona because that is who he was from the start.
Edit: After 4 TI's Valve already knows what type of host 2GD is and it's a bit unfair imo to call him out on his on screen persona because that is who he was from the start.
I mean, you saying you like it when people don't beat around the bush,implies you support gabe's response, or did I misunderstand you?