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[Mman235]

Orion Of The Lost.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Your question is entirely predicated on your assumed premise. No one is actually making an argument counter to your line of questioning so it's a moot point.

Let's try this the other way around because short of looking at wireframes, we're looking directly at a fairly clear view.

Mesh wise, what exactly do you see as different between these two models that wouldn't be explained by a shifted perspective or shader work?

If they did rip the model directly instead of making their own then I fully agree

Doesn't look like they did to me though, the screws are different, the indentations on the side look shallower , the proportions of the front of the model are clearly different

 

[JaseC]

If they did rip the model directly instead of making their own then I fully agree

Doesn't look like they did to me though, the screws are different, the indentations on the side look shallower , the proportions of the front of the model are clearly different

As I understand it, none of the weapons in BLOPS 3 are based on actual weapons. You don't accidentally design a near-identical futuristic gun.

 

[Easy_D]

The design is the god damn same, even if the execution is slightly different.

 

[FloatingDivider]

I'm with these guys they have put forth excellent arguments as to why they shouldn't be removed from steam. Any asset similarity is incidental. What that unreal demo environment? Psht, coincidence mang, how many space docks have you seen huh? That's what they look like okay! Go google spacedock concept art right now that's what you'll see!

#OrionNeedsYou
#LookWhosScared
#SteamWTF
#JusticeForOrion
#GabeNewellHatesOrionPeople

 

[Mario]

If they did rip the model directly instead of making their own then I fully agree

Doesn't look like they did to me though, the screws are different, the indentations on the side look shallower , the proportions of the front of the model are clearly different

Looks like the same mesh to me. Differences here, few though they are, can be explained in differences in textures, shaders, some rework applied, and the game camera viewport/render process.

Even if the ORION mesh was created "from scratch", you'd basically have to have the COD model there for reference anyway to have got it that close. And even in that case I think it reaches the bar of copyright infringement given you are essentially "tracing over the top".

No way they didn't rip the model and either use it (and modify it) directly, or less likely (because if you are going to steal why not be lazy) used it as reference.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

The devs put an "update" on Steam forum:

They didn't even try to explain why it's very clearly just different parts of the COD weapons stuck together, that's a pathetic response.

 

[Card Boy]

Read this thread before trying to side with these shady cunt devs.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=542133

They rebranded their previous game 3 times that i know of to avoid bad metacritic scores.

Was called;

Orion: Dino Beatdown
then Orion Dino Horde
now Orion Prelude

 

[Valonquar]

Welp I guess I know what the next Jimquisition will be now...

 

[LordRaptor]

The design is the god damn same, even if the execution is slightly different.

Are design elements like those covered by the DMCA?
Because that argument sort of naturally heads into

unlicenced "similar yet legally different" territory

 

[Timedog]

Is this that Dino horde game? I think I have like 18 copies of it in my inventory.

It's the worst game I've played on steam. I have no doubt they ripped the guns. They weren't even trying when making that game.

 

[Living Proof]

I left a past version of this game running on my PC for a few days after walking away from it to get lunch with friends.

Those same friends still think it's funny that Orion: (insert title) has 70-some hours on my Steam account despite a few minutes of actual playtime

Shameful

 

[Jackpot]

Are design elements like those covered by the DMCA?
Because that argument sort of naturally heads into

unlicenced "similar yet legally different" territory

Those aren't design elements in Orion, they're the same mesh - not two recreations of the same gun. I bet if you measured the euclidean dist between the copied sections of the mesh it'd be zero.

 

[Risk Breaker]

This is clearly a slight rework of an area from the Unreal Infiltrator demo

You are allowed to use those assets if you're working with UE4, though.

Not defending the guy, who seems like someone that is really good at monetizing someone else's effort and creativity, but this is, at least legally, fine.

 

[Thrashinuva]

This game is no different than Legend of Titan. Are these guys from China?

 

[LordRaptor]

Those aren't design elements in Orion, they're the same mesh - not two recreations of the same gun. I bet if you measured the euclidean dist between the copied sections of the mesh it'd be zero.

Well, yeah, if it was the a ripped mesh, but the posts here suggest it wasn't a ripped mesh, just one that was "heavily inspired by" the CoD gun.
Which doesn't seem like a thing the DMCA covers.

 

[Katori]

These guys are silly to keep doing rip-off stuff, but they're right. The gun elements are ripped off, not straight-up copied (ripped meshes/textures/shaders), which is what the DMCA covers.

There should be no trouble if they re-submit it. I'll actually buy it, too. I like the spirit of what these guys are doing, the janky, beautiful, broken spirit.

 

[Jacksinthe]

If they did rip the model directly instead of making their own then I fully agree

Doesn't look like they did to me though, the screws are different, the indentations on the side look shallower , the proportions of the front of the model are clearly different

Changing Link's belt buckle won't make him not Link :|

 

[SolidSnakex]

Well, yeah, if it was the a ripped mesh, but the posts here suggest it wasn't a ripped mesh, just one that was "heavily inspired by" the CoD gun.
Which doesn't seem like a thing the DMCA covers.

The guns in BO3 are entirely fictional as are the guns in ORION. Which is why there's no way that this was simply "inspired by" CoD's M8A7

The sight and the crosshair are exactly the same, then you have the indentation on the guns not only being exactly the same but also in the exact same position. There's no reason why that should happen on fictional weapons.

 

[LordRaptor]

The guns in BO3 are entirely fictional as are the guns in ORION. Which is why there's no way that this was simply "inspired by" CoD's M8A7

The sight and the crosshair are exactly the same, then you have the indentation on the guns not only being exactly the same but also in the exact same position. There's no reason why that should happen on fictional weapons.

I'm using "heavily inspired by" in huge air quotes because what I am actually saying is "blatantly copied".
But AFAIK, and I am not a lawyer, "blatantly copied from" is not a legal term, and there aren't any legal protections for specific individual design elements, or individual design elements incorporated as whole - which is why GTA can have cars that are unlicenced copies at 90% identical to real world cars and it is legally permissible because the 10% that is different makes it okay.

Note that "legally permissible" is not the same thing as "totally legit".
These guys are blatantly copying other peoples work, but - again, I am not a lawyer - AFAICS in a legal manner that makes a DMCA takedown inappropriate.

e:
If these are ripped meshes, or kitbashed from ripped meshes, that is a totally different story, and DMCA applies

 

[Plasma]

I've got absolutely no sympathy for them after they failed to pay and credit people who worked on it.

 

[Spiritwalker]

yeah they certainly copied that design

 

[DrArchon]

All I know is that these guys kept changing the name of their game multiple times to try and get away from middling review scores, so I can't say that I'd be surprised if they did something else that was shifty.

The evidence presented is pretty damning too. Even if the didn't just straight up rip the models, the one in ORION is so clearly "inspired" by the one in BLOPS3 that it might as well have been traced over.

 

[Blam]

These guys are shadey as fuck and should never be trusted.

I mean seriously they are begging to get fucked by Disney.

 

[Pokemaniac]

There's something to be said about the DMCA's "guilty until proven innocent" design, buuuuuuuut the system is clearly working as intended here. This dev fscked up. Badly.

 

[Katori]

These guys are shadey as fuck and should never be trusted.

I mean seriously they are begging to get fucked by Disney.

These are homages, and not ripped from anything. The only one that's too close for comfort is the Rylo Ken one, but Disney can't go after every Boba Fett ripoff.

 

[Catshade]

More updates.

First he wants to sue everyone who spread slander and defamation about their supposed asset-stealing history...

To any website reporting false claims with no verifiable proof or facts regarding David or Trek - this is not acceptable and won't be tolerated.

You can not flat out lie about people. That is slander and defamation. We've seen two reports pop up from over 5 years ago. tt wasn't true then, still isn't now.

To anyone spreading claims without proof, we will be seeking resolution once we're done addressing what we're going to do with Activision.


( NATURAL SELECTION 2 ARMORY )
This related to a development-only, pre-alpha game build. We were flying to conferences like Gamescom (Germany) and Eurogamer (London) to show to publishers and press. At the time, like any developer, you use whatever content and assets you have access to in order to mock up the experience. We had a freelancer at the time, Daniel Doerksen who was simply a fan of Unknown Worlds/Natural Selection - never officially worked for them and simply made himself personal portfolio piece based on their art.

At this time we needed a unit exactly the same (a dispenser that grants ammo) and used what he had legally available to do so. It was caught in a few frames in a trailer and people (somehow) assumed it was straight from the Natural Selection 2 game, a title that wasn't even released to the public at that time. The model was subbed out for the official release, as always intended.


(PRIMAL CARNAGE ARTWORK)
Another incident involved a freelancing concept artist. Back in the day we had an additional folder on our shared Dropbox called "Mood Art". This would contain anything that was either very "Orionish" or something I wanted to get added to the game and consisted of orion-related fan art, things we'd find online. Said artist utilized a piece of artwork from that folder and used it as a base layer, proportionally, to do a full new drawing on top of.

When submitted to me, I didn't know this at the time. However Ashton, the former head of Primal contacted me right after we made the news post and we took it down immediately and apologized right then and I also personally apologized in person at a conference. They did not accept it. Fun fact, years later the two Dinosaur 3D Artists, Tim M and Eugen T, would join and create the Dinosaurs for both Prelude and most of Guardians of Orion - only for me to find out that they were having payment issues at Lukewarm for their completed content.


(WE FIRED PEOPLE)
This is the name of the game. We work remotely and independently, so sometimes talent doesn't work out. However it wasn't purely related to strangers and anyone that steals or tries to steal hardware, money or do other shady things doesn't have a place at Trek. More on that here:
http://artistryingames.com/spiraling-control-incredible-journey-spiral-game-studios/

Then he backpedals overnight...and uses this 'event' to extract more money from his fans.

After a nights rest I am ready to comment. I will not be taking legal action over Activision. Despite easy justice, I need to play the long game. If we approached this in that manner we would be no different than what we are fighting against. We will not be the DMCA, patent-infringing types that hinder production and creativity.

That being said, we will be ensuring that Activision covers for the damages they've inflicted, both by removal of the game during the largest event of the year as well as malicious and invalid claims which acted as slander and defamation.

But we will ensuring this in a way that doesn't have us wasting time in a courtroom, obliterating production - and still allows to develop the game at full speed.

We will be starting a crowdfunding event later today. This is to cover:
1. what we are missing out on the largest event.
2. the damages we've taken on from Activision.

As of yesterday, Activision cut out 70% of our profit. My calculations put it at 90% today. What they did is devastating.

I can't believe that there are gamers who are defending the money-abusing, ♥♥♥-wiping turds that is Activision who walks all over gamers with annual $60 releases, season passes, $15 map packs, doesn't involve or listen to them in any way.

Then you have US, who literally pay money to do amazing fan service for content like you mentioned above which we GIVE away.

This is by far the most disappointing aspect and the largest core to the new idea I am developing, scheduled to debut later today.

It is now up to the gamers as to whether or not they want Orion, or what we do and what we stand for. Otherwise this is not what we signed up for and I am personally far too old for this crap rodeo again.

If you like Orion, get ready to show your support.
If you don't - well, then don't.

*Side Note: CD-Keys given out in the crowdfunding campaign WILL work via Steam, you can authorize it, download it AND play it.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

I will not be taking legal action over Activision

welp, he knows he fucked up.

 

[Kalentan]

These are homages, and not ripped from anything. The only one that's too close for comfort is the Rylo Ken one, but Disney can't go after every Boba Fett ripoff.

Dude. The middle one is nearly identical to Genji's Helmet from Overwatch. I'm not even sure how you can even defend that shit. And the Kylo Ren one is the same as the actual one just with a red visor.

 

[Ketkat]

Isn't going around to sell more copies of your game when its going through a legal battle, super bad?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Hea gonna start a crowd funding event?

Lol. Pathetic.

 

[Kalentan]

Hea gonna start a crowd funding event?

Lol. Pathetic.

They're trying to bank on people hating Activision to actually support them.

 

[itxaka]

wait, is it possible to rip out shaders and models out of games like that? woah, didnt knew that.

Are all those characters and items on things like Garry's mod ripped from other games directly? I always thought those were hand made.


In any case, people need to stop stealing content from other games. Especially for games that sell 30 million units, you are gonna get caught sooner or later just for using one gun model, you idiot!

 

[epmode]

I wonder how many of their Youtube comments are astroturf.

 

[Kalentan]

wait, is it possible to rip out shaders and models out of games like that? woah, didnt knew that.

Are all those characters and items on things like Garry's mod ripped from other games directly? I always thought those were hand made.

In any case, people need to stop stealing content from other games. Especially for games that sell 30 million units, you are gonna get caught sooner or later just for using one gun model, you idiot!

There are models in Garry's Mod that are ripped straight from the games. Just like how that Halo CE PC mod ripped stuff from 2 and 3. However the difference being that they don't sell those models.

 

[Adaren]

The developer's response is unbelievably immature.

 

[chiv]

Either these guys directly ripped off COD designs in which case I have zero sympathy and nothing but support for activision (big or small, youre an ass if you rip off other peoples work), OR they tried to cut corners by borrowing VERY heavily off of them, in which case they played a stupidly and needlessly risky game they could never win (seriously, even if you WERE legally right, why would you want to risk tangling with the behemoth that is activision?)

Either way, whether they were in the wrong, or just trying to pull a tigers tail, theyve brought this on themselves 100%.

 

[Zomba13]

wait, is it possible to rip out shaders and models out of games like that? woah, didnt knew that.

Are all those characters and items on things like Garry's mod ripped from other games directly? I always thought those were hand made.


In any case, people need to stop stealing content from other games. Especially for games that sell 30 million units, you are gonna get caught sooner or later just for using one gun model, you idiot!

The Gary's Mod stuff is all done by fans. If you see Smash Bros models or OVerwatch stuff it's been ripped by someone in the community and uploaded. The only official Gary's Mod things are things from Valve Source engine games if you own them and have them installed.

 

[bishoptl]

These are homages, and not ripped from anything. The only one that's too close for comfort is the Rylo Ken one, but Disney can't go after every Boba Fett ripoff.

Are you kidding?

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

There's something to be said about the DMCA's "guilty until proven innocent" design, buuuuuuuut the system is clearly working as intended here. This dev fscked up. Badly.

Same here. The DMCA is fcking awful for smaller creative folk and desperately needs to be revised. However, this is one of the most cut and dry case I've seen so far, in terms of it's uses.

They're trying to bank on people hating Activision to actually support them.

To be fair, it (almost) worked for the first page of this thread when the title was something along the lines of "Incorrect Activision DMCA takedown". Then people actually looked at it closely.

These are homages, and not ripped from anything. The only one that's too close for comfort is the Rylo Ken one, but Disney can't go after every Boba Fett ripoff.

LOL. I don't think you understand how "homages" work.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Are you kidding?

The difference between a ripoff and a homage is if I like it or not, and if I like the person who made the original work or not. Get with the program bruh

 

[OldMuffin]

Welp looks like the indiegogo is up, for anyone feeling especially stupid to donate to a bunch of liars and thieves....

 

[CertifiedFP]

Welp looks like the indiegogo is up, for anyone feeling especially stupid to donate to a bunch of liars and thieves....

Facepunch internet detectives found out that apparently all the money donated so far is Spiral's.

They don't even know how to Astroturf right, do they?

 

[kingofthedead45]

Are you kidding?

Change my name to bish and Ill find a similar avi. Let's call it a homage.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

More updates.

First he wants to sue everyone who spread slander and defamation about their supposed asset-stealing history...



Then he backpedals overnight...and uses this 'event' to extract more money from his fans.

Wow. Another sign of a shady dev. Oh we're not going to actually go to court. We're going to start a crowdfunding campaign and get evil old Activision's money from you the "Fans". This is like textbook.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Limbo of the Lost 2k16?

 

[Nokterian]

Are you kidding?

Hmm, no i don't think he isn't.

 

[Dyson Industries]

Not to backseat mod or anything, but if anyone posts that indiegogo link here they need a good bollocking.

Facepunch internet detectives found out that apparently all the money donated so far is Spiral's.

They don't even know how to Astroturf right, do they?

Clowns, liars and thieves.

 

[kingofthedead45]

Not to backseat mod or anything, but if anyone posts that indiegogo link here they need a good bollocking.

Clowns, liars and thieves.

Worse bit is that he made the goal low enough for he himself to donate and reach said goal meaning any money donated from others he can keep.

 

[kris.]

Facepunch internet detectives found out that apparently all the money donated so far is Spiral's.

They don't even know how to Astroturf right, do they?

creator donated to his own campaign. dude couldn't even make a fake account to do it on. smfh