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Metal Gear Solid V 'Definitive Ex' listed by Amazon (Chapter 3?)

KOMANI

KOMANI
I feel like Chapter 3 was probably planned as something larger very early in development. I don't believe for a second that MGSV was conceived from moment to have 90% of the unique content in Chapter 1, then replays and a couple of new missions in Chapter 2, then just a cutscene for Chapter 3.

I would love to see the original design doc for MGSV. I feel like it had to be so different to what the game ended up being.
there was an image floating around, post release, of the plan to have 5 chapters. Which would fit with Peacewalker, and it would make sense since PW and TPP are pretty much counterpoints. But outside KP and Konami, who really knows.
People want more from this game and it's understandable since soooooo much was promised.
 

Liamc723

Member
Because when you judge it by its own merits itself instead of bringing along your baggage of expectations it's a fantastic game. A flawed game, but a fantastic flawed game.

It's a great game though. It's a "bad MGS game" - arguably barely even an MGS game at all - but a truly great game in its own right.

Finger cross for Chapter 3 in December
lol

When there's a 5 in the title, of course I'm going to have expectations that were built on the previous 4 games.

When I bought TPP, I expected a good MGS game and I did not get that. No, it's not a bad videogame, but it is a bad Metal Gear Solid game.
 
When I bought TPP, I expected a good MGS game and I did not get that. No, it's not a bad videogame, but it is a bad Metal Gear Solid game.

So then you agree that your problem with the game isn't with the game itself but with your own expectations and perspective.
 

Palculator

Unconfirmed Member
When there's a 5 in the title, of course I'm going to have expectations that were built on the previous 4 games.

When I bought TPP, I expected a good MGS game and I did not get that. No, it's not a bad videogame, but it is a bad Metal Gear Solid game.
There's a V in the title, different from the other Metal Gear Solids :)
 

daxy

Member
Can you imagine if Konami really did wrap this game you properly and... it was good?

Hah. Most likely a package.
 

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
Why would expect chap 3.
It's just a GOTY edition.
 

SomTervo

Member
I can't say I understand people who feel MGSV is a bad MGS game. I guess my perception of what a MGS game is just totally differs. It felt totally like a MGS game to me, and a damn good one. It is hardly perfect, but I'll say taken on a whole, MGSV is more of a MGS game to me than MGS4 was. The first chapter and the beginning of the final chapter in MGS4 were sooooo MGS. The rest... not so much.

There were moments where it was absolute, unequivocal, perfect MGS. But only moments, IMO, in the entire experience. Like perhaps three cutscene/story moments and a handful of gameplay/level moments. The other hundreds (thousands even) of moments just weren't idiosyncratic enough (far less character and weirdness) to be what I'd consider 'true MGS'.

The cassette tapes were brilliant though - they were the most 'original MGS' content in the game. Especially the later, post-completion ones.

PS I also detest MGS4 and rate it miles below the other MGS games.

When there's a 5 in the title, of course I'm going to have expectations that were built on the previous 4 games.

There's no 5 in the title, though.

There's a V ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

When I bought TPP, I expected a good MGS game and I did not get that. No, it's not a bad videogame, but it is a bad Metal Gear Solid game.

That's pretty much what I said, baby.

In my case I didn't expect a good MGS game - at least not in terms of story - because the noises from GAF's Spoiler thread were so completely odious. My expectations were so low I loved the game anyway, story and all - no matter how 'un MGS' it is.
 

Ratrat

Member
It was a better MGS than 4 and PW while also being a damn good stealth game.

The sad thing is it could have easily been in the running for one of the best games ever if it had also managed to a solid narrative and better pacing. But the amount of shit it gets for merely being a great game is stupid.
 

duckroll

Member
There were moments where it was absolute, unequivocal, perfect MGS. But only moments, IMO, in the entire experience. Like perhaps three cutscene/story moments and a handful of gameplay/level moments. The other hundreds (thousands even) of moments just weren't idiosyncratic enough (far less character and weirdness) to be what I'd consider 'true MGS'.

The cassette tapes were brilliant though - they were the most 'original MGS' content in the game. Especially the later, post-completion ones.

PS I also detest MGS4 and rate it miles below the other MGS games.

I guess it depends on what we look at. Storywise is MGSV a disappointment? Sure. It could have been so much more. But the story in MGS games have always been just glorified well executed Hollywood homages. Kojima is a huge film fanboy and it shows. So that to me isn't the core of what MGS is. I feel that pretty much every structured proper mission in MGSV is a great MGS game experience. There's a great balance of the weird, the mysterious, the exciting, and the wacky - although much it it also depends on what you want to bring into a mission and how you want to do it. I had a blast. I know that some people felt really burnt out by the empty open world and the crappy and repetitive side ops, but I never really wasted a ton of time on those.
 
As a MGS fan since 1998, I agree with the commenter you replied to. It's a bad Metal Gear Solid game.

As another MGS fan since 1998...I disagree. It's not a bad anything, you can say disappointing sure, but it's not bad

I played the game for 210 hours, in that time I could have played all 4 of the previous games twice. Did I have a lot of problems with it? Absolutely. Is it a bad Metal Gear Solid game? Absolutely not, it's got all the hallmarks of Metal Gear like it or not, and while I hate several aspects of it's presentation and narrative, the gameplay itself is immaculate.
That's what matters in the end, while I was just as disappointed in the story as anyone else, the gameplay gave me the tools to create my own stories through emergent gameplay, and that more than makes up for it's shortcomings. I'll never forget some of my close calls and split-second improvisations across Afghanistan and Africa that are completely unique to my own experience, whereas I couldn't tell you a single thing I did in MGS 1-4 that wasn't explicitly intended.
 

Liamc723

Member
As another MGS fan since 1998...I disagree. It's not a bad anything, you can say disappointing sure, but it's not bad

I played the game for 210 hours, in that time I could have played all 4 of the previous games twice. Did I have a lot of problems with it? Absolutely. Is it a bad Metal Gear Solid game? Absolutely not, it's got all the hallmarks of Metal Gear like it or not, and while I hate several aspects of it's presentation and narrative, the gameplay itself is immaculate.
That's what matters in the end, while I was just as disappointed in the story as anyone else, the gameplay gave me the tools to create my own stories through emergent gameplay, and that more than makes up for it's shortcomings. I'll never forget some of my close calls and split-second improvisations across Afghanistan and Africa that are completely unique to my own experience, whereas I couldn't tell you a single thing I did in MGS 1-4 that wasn't explicitly intended.

Its lack of story is bad. Its barren open-world is bad. Chapter 2 is very, very bad. Its repetitive missions, some of which feel very similar, are bad. The fact that it's an unfinished product is bad. Its lack of boss fights is bad.

It is a bad Metal Gear Solid game.
 

SomTervo

Member
I guess it depends on what we look at. Storywise is MGSV a disappointment? Sure. It could have been so much more. But the story in MGS games have always been just glorified well executed Hollywood homages. Kojima is a huge film fanboy and it shows. So that to me isn't the core of what MGS is. I feel that pretty much every structured proper mission in MGSV is a great MGS game experience. There's a great balance of the weird, the mysterious, the exciting, and the wacky - although much it it also depends on what you want to bring into a mission and how you want to do it. I had a blast. I know that some people felt really burnt out by the empty open world and the crappy and repetitive side ops, but I never really wasted a ton of time on those.

It's a funny one, because I entirely see what you mean about every mission being like a mini-MGS adventure. In the future, rather than booting up MGS 1, 2 or 3 to get my Metal Gear fix, I'll be booting up MGSV and creating my own adventure through the open world. MGSV is essentially an 'espionage infiltration operation simulator'. A create-your-own-MGS.

However, it's not quite the same as the old games IMO, because:
1) there's no brilliantly designed 'gathering your equipment on the field' experience, which included scouring corners and crannies for advanced/secret items, which was key to root-MGS (calling in ammo/suppressor drops in MGSV was a mistake IMO and it all should have been in the game-world)
2) there's no intelligent roadblocking, in a Metroidvania sense, e.g. getting keycards, unlocking new parts of the map, etc - which works even in open world
3) there was no disguise mechanic - which is classic MGS and would have shone in MGSV
4) the fact that you can only enter missions on-foot via helicopter drop-off is disappointing to me - a classic MGS staple was always the very idiosyncratic ways of getting into your operation; underwater personal-sub, HALO jump, in-cognito with enemies, etc. Imagine if we could pick 'underwater entry' or 'parachute entry' or 'disguise entry' etc on the map, rather than just 'chopper'

I still understand what you mean, but the key things which made the older MGS games satisfying in gameplay are absent from MGSV. It has its own massive suite of brilliant gameplay systems, which I adore, but they don't feel like what originally made MGS great.

Again, I don't really think this is a problem - I'm just arguing the terms.

Its lack of story is bad. Its barren open-world is bad. Chapter 2 is very, very bad. Its repetitive missions, some of which feel very similar, are bad.

- There's loads of story content. In terms of hours and words, more than several of the older MGS games. Not to mention the late-game cassette tapes match the best cutscenes of MGS2 IMO, they are utterly brilliant
- the open world isn't a sandbox and isn't based around side quests. So it's not empty at all. The game's levels are only 'open' to facilitate any angle/approach the player wants. You have to stop thinking about it as an open world ala an RPG or action game (e.g. GTA or AC). MGSV is a series of large bases/levels which are connected by a larger meta-space, so that you have complete freedom of approach. There isn't meant to be any substantial content between bases
- the missions only feel repetitive if you one-shot them and pure-stealth them. Boot the game up and try getting the 'Side objectives' on the Main Missions. That's when MGSV really shines. Every single mission has countless permutations, variations, depth of objectives and depth of approach. But if you play it as a straight up stealth game it will become monotonous

The fact that it's an unfinished product is bad. Its lack of boss fights is bad.

These are definitely huge problems, though, yeah.
 
Its lack of story is bad. Its barren open-world is bad. Chapter 2 is very, very bad. Its repetitive missions, some of which feel very similar, are bad. The fact that it's an unfinished product is bad. Its lack of boss fights is bad.

It is a bad Metal Gear Solid game.

In your opinion. Those things are what make an MGS game to you and that's cool.

But not to me. MGS has never been about the Boss fights or collectibles to me. Its always been about mind fuckery and emergent gameplay. Which this game has in spades. I'd absolutely rank this above MGS4 which I consider the worst MGS game because it puts story at such a pedestal that it affects gameplay negatively.

But again, that's my opinion. Im a huge MGS fan but that doesn't mean I speak for everyone.

Read all posts on the internet as if they have the addendum "in my opinion" and your life will suddenly become more clear.

I was being somewhat facetious.
 

Liamc723

Member
In your opinion. Those things are what make an MGS game to you and that's cool.

But not to me. MGS has never been about the Boss fights or collectibles to me. Its always been about mind fuckery and emergent gameplay. Which this game has in spades. I'd absolutely rank this above MGS4 which I consider the worst MGS game because it puts story at such a pedestal that it affects gameplay negatively.

But again, that's my opinion. Im a huge MGS fan but that doesn't mean I speak for everyone.

Where did I say MGS was about collectibles?

If MGS V has mind fuckery in spades, where is it? I can only think of the intro.

Where is its Psycho Mantis fight from MGS1? Its MGS2 ending? Its boss fight with The Pain from MGS3?

The closest MGSV gets to any of that is the Man on Fire, and that isn't anything special.
 
Where did I say MGS was about collectibles?

If MGS V has mind fuckery in spades, where is it? I can only think of the intro.

Where is its Psycho Mantis fight from MGS1? Its MGS2 ending? Its boss fight with The Pain from MGS3?

The closest MGSV gets to any of that is the Man on Fire, and that isn't anything special.

The collectibles thing was probably the wrong term to use. Im typing on mobe so forgive me. What I meant was that the world in MGS doesn't need stuff in it to be compelling. I like the barren open world.

The whole virus strain stuff was very MGS in my opinion. It's ending is very MGS as well but its up to you to decide whether or not you liked it.

The man on fire fight in of itself felt very MGS to me. While I found it laughably easy and anti climatic (fired a rocket launcher at him and he fell into a pool immediately). There's a whole lot of different ways to beat him. Watching my friends struggle with him was entertaining.

But like I said. Boss fights for me never made MGS what it is. I detested most of the Boss fights in MGS4.

And again, if you don't like MGS5 that is absolutely fine. I can understand why you wouldn't to a certain degree but to me, it brings a lot of joy that I haven't felt since MGS1/2. The core sneaking is what always made the games great to me and while the story is not the best in the series, it's still more enjoyable to me than a many video game plots that have released recently.

Im not saying you're wrong. Im just saying that I don't agree. Although I am curious as to what you think about Peace Walker?
 

Whompa02

Member
It's not a bad game, I just think they needed to trim a lot of the open world fat out. Some missions just weren't fun. Also nobody likes repeat missions. Nobody ever would fight for that.

Just trim out some of the useless missions and the repeat ones and boom, better overall game.

It was the first metal gear game that I didn't feel compelled to replay because I was already replaying it during my first play through and I got bored by the end. Too much padding out.
 

Liamc723

Member
The collectibles thing was probably the wrong term to use. Im typing on mobe so forgive me. What I meant was that the world in MGS doesn't need stuff in it to be compelling. I like the barren open world.

The whole virus strain stuff was very MGS in my opinion. It's ending is very MGS as well but its up to you to decide whether or not you liked it.

The man on fire fight in of itself felt very MGS to me. While I found it laughably easy and anti climatic (fired a rocket launcher at him and he fell into a pool immediately). There's a whole lot of different ways to beat him. Watching my friends struggle with him was entertaining.

But like I said. Boss fights for me never made MGS what it is. I detested most of the Boss fights in MGS4.

And again, if you don't like MGS5 that is absolutely fine. I can understand why you wouldn't to a certain degree but to me, it brings a lot of joy that I haven't felt since MGS1/2. The core sneaking is what always made the games great to me and while the story is not the best in the series, it's still more enjoyable to me than a many video game plots that have released recently.

Im not saying you're wrong. Im just saying that I don't agree. Although I am curious as to what you think about Peace Walker?

Peace Walker is the only MGS I've never finished. I can't stand its mission structure.
 
It's not a bad game, I just think they needed to trim a lot of the open world fat out. Some missions just weren't fun. Also nobody likes repeat missions. Nobody ever would fight for that.

Just trim out some of the useless missions and the repeat ones and boom, better overall game.

The repeat missions weren't compulsory but i definitely think they should have been moved to a separate tab. I also think the missions in chapter 2 should have unlocked 1 by 1 as they had been in chapter 1 because I believe that made a lot of people think that they had to do those repeats.

Peace Walker is the only MGS I've never finished. I can't stand its mission structure.

That's fair enough! I can understand that. I didn't mind it personally and maybe that's why I enjoy 5 so much. Not to say that I didn't like the previous entries better but I guess I didn't mind the shake up.
 

Whompa02

Member
The repeat missions weren't compulsory but i definitely think they should have been moved to a separate tab. I also think the missions in chapter 2 should have unlocked 1 by 1 as they had been in chapter 1 because I believe that made a lot of people think that they had to do those repeats.

I also mean just some of the main missions that were structurally very similar to other main missions.

Some main missions I said to myself, "wait didn't I do this?" Because of how similar it was to a previous one.
 

Liamc723

Member
That's fair enough! I can understand that. I didn't mind it personally and maybe that's why I enjoy 5 so much. Not to say that I didn't like the previous entries better but I guess I didn't mind the shake up.

While Peace Walker and TPP's mission structures are quite similar, I found V's far easier to follow and engage with.
 
It took me a while to get over mgs and accept v as the final one so in going to consider this just a game of the year edition with all the released dlc. Not even sure they could release new chapters depending on who konami would use.
 
I also mean just some of the main missions that were structurally very similar to other main missions.

Some main missions I said to myself, "wait didn't I do this?" Because of how similar it was to a previous one.

Yeah that's a critism of the game I can't really defend. Some of the end goals were basically the same throughout. It's a shame that some of the side taskd weren't made into main objectives as they tended to be more interesting. It wasn't a big issue for me personally though as you had a lot of freedom to tackle missions. Im just a sucker for it, I guess.

While Peace Walker and TPP's mission structures are quite similar, I found V's far easier to follow and engage with.

I agree with that as well. I guess the fact that 5 gives you more time in a mission might contribute. Peace Walker always felt a bit jarring in the sneaking missions due to how short they were but I guess that might have been the portable nature of the game.
 
And what would it explain? Putting words in my mouth by saying I think Peace Walker is bad too? Lol okay, I've never even brought up Peace Walker in this thread.

Obviously because MGS5 is primarily a sequel to Peace Walker, everything that was introduced in PW was expanded upon in MGS5. If you didn't like PW you probably weren't going to like MGS5 either.
 

Ceadeus

Gold Member
I would be in if the game had no multiplayer nor motherbase bullshit. Then if it would be completed with all the missing chapters,
 

Liamc723

Member
Obviously because MGS5 is primarily a sequel to Peace Walker, everything that was introduced in PW was expanded upon in MGS5. If you didn't like PW you probably weren't going to like MGS5 either.

As I've said, my main problem with Peace Walker was its mission structure. I reached a point where I felt like I just couldn't progress. However that's my only criticism of the game, and it was fixed in V.
 
It's not a bad game, I just think they needed to trim a lot of the open world fat out. Some missions just weren't fun. Also nobody likes repeat missions. Nobody ever would fight for that.

Just trim out some of the useless missions and the repeat ones and boom, better overall game.

This. And just remove the chapter title cards.
 
Peace Walker

I know you didn't ask me but since others are chiming in, I'll say that Peace Walker is my favorite Metal Gear in just about every respect. It flowed so well from start to finish, from the way the game played to the way that the story was told. The controls weren't as smooth as MGS4's, mostly due to the game being made for a handheld, but overall the gameplay was every bit as deep, if not deeper than past Metal Gear titles. The thing I appreciated most was the fact that the growth of Mother Base directly tied into the story, making resource gathering and item development, which are an integral part of the game, that much more meaningful. The story itself was quite the thrill, from meeting Paz to sending her swimming with the fishes, at least on a temporary basis, but the way it was told is what most helped it resonate with me. Metal Gear had always relied fairly heavily on cutscenes and radio calls to deliver its story, but Peace Walker took a different approach. While cutscenes and radio calls still made up for a significant share of how the story was told, however the addition of cassette tapes worked wonders for adding depth to each of the characters, new and old alike, as well as their individual backstories. Side Ops also played a vital role in maximizing the greatness Peace Walker was able to provide. The variety of missions as well as the way one can go about completing those missions is staggering, and not only makes every type of mission memorable, but the time spent within those missions equally so. My only hope is that it makes its way to current or future consoles and PC. As unlikely as that may seem now, I'm certain it will happen at some point, and am hopeful for the future of the series and how it honors its legacy moving forward, despite how things appear at the moment.
 
I know you didn't ask me but since others are chiming in, I'll say that Peace Walker is my favorite Metal Gear in just about every respect. It flowed so well from start to finish, from the way the game played to the way that the story was told. The controls weren't as smooth as MGS4's, mostly due to the game being made for a handheld, but overall the gameplay was every bit as deep, if not deeper than past Metal Gear titles. The thing I appreciated most was the fact that the growth of Mother Base directly tied into the story, making resource gathering and item development, which are an integral part of the game, that much more meaningful. The story itself was quite the thrill, from meeting Paz to sending her swimming with the fishes, at least on a temporary basis, but the way it was told is what most helped it resonate with me. Metal Gear had always relied fairly heavily on cutscenes and radio calls to deliver its story, but Peace Walker took a different approach. While cutscenes and radio calls still made up for a significant share of how the story was told, however the addition of cassette tapes worked wonders for adding depth to each of the characters, new and old alike, as well as their individual backstories. Side Ops also played a vital role in maximizing the greatness Peace Walker was able to provide. The variety of missions as well as the way one can go about completing those missions is staggering, and not only makes every type of mission memorable, but the time spent within those missions equally so. My only hope is that it makes its way to current or future consoles and PC. As unlikely as that may seem now, I'm certain it will happen at some point, and am hopeful for the future of the series and how it honors its legacy moving forward, despite how things appear at the moment.
I love everything about Peace Walker, the tapes also contain some of the best humor in the entire series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3B4hA7WXfQ

Big Boss's unnatural fondness for cardboard boxes gets me every time
 

Kazuhira

Member
I feel like replaying Peace Walker now.
The gameplay in V is miles better but i've had a lot more fun with PW for some reason.
 
I know you didn't ask me but since others are chiming in, I'll say that Peace Walker is my favorite Metal Gear in just about every respect. It flowed so well from start to finish, from the way the game played to the way that the story was told. The controls weren't as smooth as MGS4's, mostly due to the game being made for a handheld, but overall the gameplay was every bit as deep, if not deeper than past Metal Gear titles. The thing I appreciated most was the fact that the growth of Mother Base directly tied into the story, making resource gathering and item development, which are an integral part of the game, that much more meaningful. The story itself was quite the thrill, from meeting Paz to sending her swimming with the fishes, at least on a temporary basis, but the way it was told is what most helped it resonate with me. Metal Gear had always relied fairly heavily on cutscenes and radio calls to deliver its story, but Peace Walker took a different approach. While cutscenes and radio calls still made up for a significant share of how the story was told, however the addition of cassette tapes worked wonders for adding depth to each of the characters, new and old alike, as well as their individual backstories. Side Ops also played a vital role in maximizing the greatness Peace Walker was able to provide. The variety of missions as well as the way one can go about completing those missions is staggering, and not only makes every type of mission memorable, but the time spent within those missions equally so. My only hope is that it makes its way to current or future consoles and PC. As unlikely as that may seem now, I'm certain it will happen at some point, and am hopeful for the future of the series and how it honors its legacy moving forward, despite how things appear at the moment.

Thanks for chiming in! I agree with pretty much everything you said. Peace Walker had a wonderful amount of depth and the side ops were great fun. I also enjoyed the story even though it was cheesy as hell but I absolutely do not mind that in my MGS games. I do really hope it gets ported in the future. MGS Co-op shouldn't die.

So, nothing new about this edition? Did Konami say something about it?

Nah, nothing yet unfortunately. I doubt we'll get anything substantial for a while.
 

NYR94

Member
This new edition will feature more than 100 new cassette tape recordings of Code Talker talking about wolbachia.
 

Ludens

Banned
I wonder if the EX in the title is just an abbreviation for Experience, in that case yeah, it would be a GOTY and nothing else without doubt.
 

Ralemont

not me
All they need to do is add a level editor with some decent AI options.

Yeah, I remember people suggesting that the credits at the beginning of missions were possibly there for future downloadable missions or fan-made levels. That would truly make the game immortal.
 

Javier23

Banned
Pretty sure Ex is just a typo or a half-written name. Or both. If I had to guess I'd say it will just be "Definitive Edition".
 
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