I had the x850D at the moment, becasue of the insanely high input lag, I am planning to take it back to the store this weekend and wait until black friday. Was going to swtich it with the ks8000, but the demo they had running at the store did not impress me at all. They actually showing HDR video of Alberta where Im at which was a nice touch. However the picture was super grainly and overly sharpen. Remind me of my old Samsung that would not allow me to turn off its edge enchancer no matter what. Motion is defintely one huge advantage the X850D has over my last LG so, picture and detail stays razer sharp in fast motion which is very important for game only for a small sacrifice in brightness. If only sony would come forward and officially state that they can decrease the input lag of the x850D down to the same level as 1080p game mode via the upcoming Android 6 update, I am not going to risk this 1500+ investment.
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Forza Horizon 3 HDR impressions
- Thread starter vatstep
- Start date
I had the x850D at the moment, becasue of the insanely high input lag, I am planning to take it back to the store this weekend and wait until black friday. Was going to swtich it with the ks8000, but the demo they had running at the store did not impress me at all. They actually showing HDR video of Alberta where Im at which was a nice touch. However the picture was super grainly and overly sharpen. Remind me of my old Samsung that would not allow me to turn off its edge enchancer no matter what. Motion is defintely one huge advantage the X850D has over my last LG so, picture and detail stays razer sharp in fast motion which is very important for game only for a small sacrifice in brightness. If only sony would come forward and officially state that they can decrease the input lag of the x850D down to the same level as 1080p game mode via the upcoming Android 6 update, I am not going to risk this 1500+ investment.
You do know not to judge the picture quality based off an in-store demo right?
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
I don't know what the button is on the stock remote, but on my universal remote I just press the input key and it shows the signal information (HDR / UHD / HD / resolution / FPS).
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yeah you just press 'info' and it gives you the details of the signal.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
No one knows anything about HDMI 2.1 or if it requires new hardware. There is also talk of sets calculating the metadata on the fly, which actually sounds quite logical.
family_guy
Member
Not really. HDR isn't a simple on/off switch. Everyone is going to have different implementations of it. Part of the reason people prefer Dolby Vision over HDR10 is because Dolby is standardized.
Isn't the brightest HDR TV on the market an edge-lit display though?
I'd agree with you for dark scenes but edge-lighting hasn't been a problem for me for bright ones.
Karak
Member
Ya pretty much. Even though I am testing and supposed to be informing folks about the ones that test the best. Right now there isn't enough media to demand a purchase especially with this combination of techs causing issues. And especially when covering games.
Yep one of the worst causes of possible issues for HDR games as well as we move forward The pillaring and terrible local dimming, that occurs in Forza is pretty easily noticeable and I have had 3 units to make sure its not unit based. People often mistake 1 aspect of HDR as the most important which is wrong. You can get a better overall picture on other units and if anything HDR is a synergistic effect between nit level, source, lighting type, dimming ability, black level, and a couple others. But right now its the input lag that is the issue elsewhere. That doesn't mean cheaper tech can't have a good picture.
Like AzerPhire said, it's hard to get a good idea about picture quality in a retail setting, especially if you're planning to watch TV in a dimly-lit or dark environment.
If you're in the store again, find someone to let you tweak the Expert Settings (under "Picture"). Default settings for HDR on the KS8000 have sharpness cranked up to like 20 or something. You can definitely turn that down to 0.
While you're doing that, you can also play around with Dynamic Contrast, Smart LED, Auto Motion Plus, etc. to get a feel for things. Some people are fans of the HDR+ enhancements (under "Special Viewing Mode"), but I don't think you can enable that with Game Mode turned on.
of course, if I decide to pick it up I would bring my own use with the hdr video sample, and play with the setting at the store if they allow me. Still, those video are support to showcase the display PQ set by the manufactuer, Sony one looks great, even the black level for the x850D was amazing when the reviews says it is mediocre.
Nope, I would switch to game mode instantly and flip off all image processing option I see. That I will do, I have only 1 perset that stick as close to the source as possible for everything and will never touch it. However with HDR I think I need 2 for 2 different brightness and contrast setting.
Karak
Member
Ya a very good chance you will indeed need a couple. Some cool tech coming up that might help that a bit though.
would be nice if sony can update the x850D to have input lag consistancely at the same level with or wihout 4K + HDR, becuase Sony has game and a graphic mode that have the same low input lag with minmal image processing. I read that KS8000 force you into pc mode with 38ms input lag when it picks up a 4:4:4 signal, and if you switch to any oher picture setting it will goes back to 4:2:2, which is not a great tv for pc. I have all devices connected to 1 avr then to my tv so I will be using 1 hdmi port to do everything.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
really curious how they implemented it. That's the real trick of HDR though - every display is different in handling so it's a bit of the wild west in mastering the content.
that said, every attempt is a good one to figure out and learn from
that said, every attempt is a good one to figure out and learn from
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
It's also possible people here don't have their tv calibrated properly.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
not really, HDR modes usually take over the TV settings for the most part.
With Dolby Vision it works perfectly every time since Dolby Vision is dynamic and knows the capability of the display and how to adjust.
I think those two aspects are why HDR10 results are so varied. Well, that and people not understanding how to correctly set the metadata.
But when you see good HDR10, it's like OHHH. (and some people are seeing bad HDR10, with incorrect / over/under saturated colors due to bad mastering - and still going OHHHH)
ClayKavalier
Banned
Yeah, I really wish Dolby Vision had taken off, not having to worry about calibration is really nice. On the P-series you set the TV to the "Calibrated Dark" picture setting and you're good to go, seeing exactly what the people who mastered it intended.
HDR10 can be confusing, settings like brightness, contrast, and backlight don't affect the picture in the same way they do with non-HDR content and it can be frustrating trying to get a good picture.
HDR10 can be confusing, settings like brightness, contrast, and backlight don't affect the picture in the same way they do with non-HDR content and it can be frustrating trying to get a good picture.
MyleMan1010
Member
So I've spent time with the PC version at 1440p (5960X and 1070sli) and the Xbox One S version on the LG UH8500. HDR adds more to the experience than 60 fps (with dips) does. The sun rays, the different blues in the sky, the pop of the city lights at night all look great. I'm gonna play on the Xbox One S until the PC version gets ironed out. With all the AA cranked there are still more jaggies on PC than the Xbox One version. I don't get it...
Karak
Member
Exactly happens all the time. In our testing its pretty simply shown that the games/media need an adjustment screen lol
This is nice to hear. I'm constantly gawping at how the game looks. And feel like I'm gawping more with the full game in HDR than the demo so can only assume it does look nicer. But without going back and forth I can't actually pinpoint in what way it looks nicer. It's an odd thing, but I'm glad I'm experiencing it in HDR. Stunning game.
New Mass Effect will be supporting Dolby Vision I believe, at least on PC. Can't wait to see what it looks like, all the DV video content I've watched has been seriously impressive on my OLED display.
Karak
Member
Yep I have returned as well to the console version.
Last nights blind test showed the same thing. All participants viewed the HDR at locked 30fps as the version they wanted to play versus the 1440p 60fps version without HDR.
But can't wait until the sets catch up to a good all around level of parity in their technical offerings.
Side by side is always easiest to be sure.
Lockjaw333
Member
This is an issue with HDR10 standard to be honest could look like shit depending on what set you're using unless you re-calibrate again happens with movies too..or they fucked up the PQ EOTF so it's ramping up incorrectly.
Dolby Vision would not have had these issues.
Oh well everyone can look forward to Dynamic HDR TV sets next year and the updates these consoles get.
God she is perfect.
On topic, just shows its too early to plunge into HDR just yet. I think in 2 years or so it will mature, and also sets will be more affordable. They need to nail down cal standards and stuff.
Huh? Dynamic HDR being rolled out with HDMI 2.1 (which requires new hardware) as outlined by Philips.
The way Dolby Vision works is due to the TV's also having powerful SOC's that are able to process the dynamic metadata, normal HDR10 TV run on much weaker SOC's.
So, don't expect any of these HDR10 only TV's to be updated to support Dynamic HDR unless the manufacturer thought ahead and shipped much more powerful SOC that is able to handle per frame change in Metadata along with path to upgrade their sets to HDMI 2.1 which almost all did not. Though I guess with Samsung in the TV's that have external processing box that can be upgrade path.
If people buy these HDR10 TV's today and expect them to get an update to Dynamic HDR they will most likely be in for a huge shock.
few more months till CES when you start seeing Dynamic HDR & High Frame Rate Sets.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
probably only high-end TVs would be able to handle the update, and even that it sketchy.
Dolby Vision isn't just the dynamic metadata though, it's how the whole system is conceived to understand the display it is running on, and to correctly roll off to match that display's capabilities. That right there makes all the difference.
The display HDR10 is mastered on may be very different than the display it is played back on, and if the meta data isn't properly set to explain how to handle that, things will look potentially inaccurate.
Memorabilia
Member
Skimming through this thread reaffirms my position that while HDR is theoretically great (and arguably more important than 4K), we're still at least a couple years away from reasonably priced (say, under $2000) TVs which properly implement it and the market has settled on a standard and pumped out enough games which properly utilize it. I don't believe HDR is all hype...I do think it'll be a game changer (pun intended)...but it feels too early to buy in right now.
Yeah I know I've outlined why DV is so good end to end before in past thread was told who cares HDR10 is "open". Lol.
Along with proper mastering tools Dolby developed not only for movies but games too it really is thought out so well.
CES will be fun when we get ton more DV hardware shown off.
dr_rus
Member
I'm not so sure that HDR10 static metadata or the whole HDR10 standard is even applicable to gaming HDR tbh. HDR10 seems to be more about HDR video where you have to encode the metadata into the video container. Games are not video obviously.
It applies to games too.
The way this consoles works is by sending HDR metadata (ATM static) to the display which then reads it and uses to display a HDR picture that is as intended. Of course you can end up with issues if the metadata is not read and applied by your tv properly.
The only way to engage HDR on these TVs is by feeding it the proper metadata. Microsoft & Sony have not come up with their own standard they are both using HDR10.
dr_rus
Member
The way HDR10 sends metadata is once per each video stream. But with games you don't have any video streams, you have a number of independent frames which are being produced in real time and you can send a new metadata for each frame probably. Even once per 30 frames would be ok for tone mapping at 30 fps.
No you can't because these sets can't read it and the Xbox One S does not do it this way.
When it first engages HDR it sends the static Metadata for the game to the TV which applies it after that it's locked.
What you are talking about is what will happen when TV's that support Dynamic HDR come out. Or, if MS or Sony ever support Dolby Vision which allows per frame updating of metadata.
If you own a HDfury Integral you can test this for yourself very easily. Injecting any new Metadata in current HDR10 sets mid frame = signal drop out, since the standard and TV's simply don't support it, also feeding Xbox One S signal via HDFury Intergral = you seeing it passing along the Metadata once as per the standard.
dr_rus
Member
Well, this makes zero sense for a gaming HDR output.
I wouldn't hold my breath about Dolby Vision getting much traction btw as it's a proprietary licensed tech which most display production outfits will try to avoid at all costs, especially in PC space.
Welcome to HDR10, bro.
I don't expect it take off in PC, Console gaming to be honest. But, I'm fine in knowing DV content is already supported by Netflix, Vudu, & Amazon and will ramp up next year with DV UHD Movies and Players.
End of the day I'll be updating for my main dedicated HT when DV, High Frame Rate, & Dynamic HDR sets come out next year. I expect PC to adapt Dynamic HDR fully with roll out of DP 1.4.
I don't know all, I was initially disappointed but I tried out the PC version maxed at 4K and, fps/hitches aside, I found the X1 version with HDR to be more impressive. Initially I couldn't tell much more than a subtle difference with HDR on but it looks pretty great. Who knows though, could be all in my head or I have my PC set up wrong (using RGB 4:4:4). Have a 65" KS8000, btw.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
I actually think it'll do just fine. You'll get Dolby Vision capable disc players later this year (Oppo supposedly being built so that it can be updated to support) and for real at CES.
The DV Blu-Rays will become more standard as discs begin to support HDR10 and DV.
Displays and streaming services already are supporting.
It'll be like Dolby and DTS in audio. Some will resist, but the content is mastered in it for theatres now too, and will continue to see more and more DV masters as we go.
emeadows11
Member
For people who have a Sony x850c TV? When I watch UHD Blu-Rays the TV automatically switches to HDR. Doesn't happen when starting Forza. Anyone running into the same issue?
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
I finally got around to playing my copy and it looks fantastic (I have a Samsung KS8000). I could see the difference almost immediately during the intro, especially in the skybox and lens flare, but after a while your eyes adjust and it looks more natural. Very happy with the IQ I'm seeing.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Pumped to try this out on my Samsung UN65HU8700, it's got the HDR/10 Bit Color, but less Nits than the newer K models.
Vudu is actually ditching DV in favor of HDR and I am more then happy with my Samsung KS8500. HDR looks downright amazing.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...ch-dolby-vision-hdr-exclusivity/#7b518d0f51b6
eso76
Member
That's my point.
Everyone is going to have different implementations especially in this initial period, when manufacturers only care about slapping the HDR sticker on their set. Things will "standardize" naturally down the line I believe.
I have a 2016 Vizio P50. I was going nuts last night trying to figure out how to get HDR working with this game. The game looks like crap. Everything is washed out. There is a Ferrari on screen and it is the weakest looking red I've seen in my life.
I'm sad to learn that HDR gaming isn't working on the Vizio, but I'm so glad to finally find out there is in fact a problem. I'm now debating if I should continue playing this game, or wait until something gets an update that fixes it. I've been really excited to play my first game in HDR, only to have a huge let down.
I'm sad to learn that HDR gaming isn't working on the Vizio, but I'm so glad to finally find out there is in fact a problem. I'm now debating if I should continue playing this game, or wait until something gets an update that fixes it. I've been really excited to play my first game in HDR, only to have a huge let down.
CaptainSmirnov
Member
JS8500 here, HDR is working fine it's a bit subtle but looks good. However due to the lower graphics preset vs pc I feel it brings the effect down a bit. Especially all the aliasing in the forests
Edit:
During the day it's subtle but once the sun starts going down daaaayum, the colors pop and the increased whites and deeper blacks are very nice.
Edit:
During the day it's subtle but once the sun starts going down daaaayum, the colors pop and the increased whites and deeper blacks are very nice.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
Samsung have already promised to update their sets to Dynamic Metadata, make of that what you will. The philips leak re. HDMI 2.1 was later altered so it's not exactly set in stone that it's going to be a new HDMI revision. I wouldn't be surprised if it was though and I sure won't be buying a new panel until we know what's going on with it. The consoles/GPUs will need updates too.
Go away. It matters and is not especially difficult to implement. Stop spreading nonsense.
Mrstriker09
Member
I can see the difference in this game but not in NBA 2k17. Seems like NBA was tacked on lol.
Welp.I have a 2016 Vizio P50. I was going nuts last night trying to figure out how to get HDR working with this game. The game looks like crap. Everything is washed out. There is a Ferrari on screen and it is the weakest looking red I've seen in my life.
I'm sad to learn that HDR gaming isn't working on the Vizio, but I'm so glad to finally find out there is in fact a problem. I'm now debating if I should continue playing this game, or wait until something gets an update that fixes it. I've been really excited to play my first game in HDR, only to have a huge let down.
I have a new P65-C1, was really excited to play this Monday and see how amazing the HDR looked. I've noticed it doesn't work properly on the One S but just assumed it was a problem on MS side for certain applications.
Meh, guess I'll have to play with it off for now, hopefully Vizio is coming with an update very soon. Good news is at least my TV supports Dolby Vision and HDR 10, whenever they get it working that is. :|
I have a 2016 Vizio P50. I was going nuts last night trying to figure out how to get HDR working with this game. The game looks like crap. Everything is washed out. There is a Ferrari on screen and it is the weakest looking red I've seen in my life.
I'm sad to learn that HDR gaming isn't working on the Vizio, but I'm so glad to finally find out there is in fact a problem. I'm now debating if I should continue playing this game, or wait until something gets an update that fixes it. I've been really excited to play my first game in HDR, only to have a huge let down.
According to a few people with Vizio's in this thread,there is a Firmware update in the works and coming very soon that will fix this.
So far, it seems like I need to have my 2015 Samsung's "Dynamic Contrast" set to med/high to not have HDR blu-rays (Star Trek 2009) or Forza looking very washed out when the signal is coming through.
No idea if that's the "right" thing to do though. Frustrating trying to find info, too.
No idea if that's the "right" thing to do though. Frustrating trying to find info, too.