The white guy sounds like he's reading every idiotic post from this thread. I am surprised he didn't say he had black friends.
Always seemed like a coded version of "Go back to Africa" to me.
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NFL QB Colin Kaepernick sits during Nat. Anthem; cites America's oppression of POC
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Our presidents owned slaves. There is nothing surprising about it.
We need J. J. Abrams, stat.
"Get out of the country!" *Waves Confederate flag*
Welp
Aaronology
Member
I'm gay. My own (very religious) mother spent most of her life against gay marriage, as did the majority of my family. I've watched numerous friends slowly alter their stances on lgbt rights as they got to know me. People do change and evolve on issues as they get older and grow, and/or as they have experiences that humanize topics they may have been hitherto emotionally detached from.
You state with entirely too much confidence that individuals just don't come around on lgbt issues, but it strikes me as coming from someone who has not had to live a life interacting with people as a gay person and watching them do just that. The very act of coming out for many of us is itself a cataclysm for our loved ones suddenly readjusting their positions on lgbt issues.
Furthermore, you list the marriage issue as a specific criticism against Clinton despite this being a failure of American politicians and of Americans in general. The nation had to come around on SSM, Timetokill, and it did so faster than I and many others would have ever believed. Whatever disappointment I have for Clinton not being the icebreaker leading the charge on SSM is ameliorated by her subsequent actions fighting for people like me. Has HRC done more harm or good for lgbt causes, and will she do more harm or good as POTUS? Those are the questions we should be asking in a sincere discussion about her Presidential candidacy. We should be looking at the entirety of her record, all that she has said and done, and not merely singling out one stance or one comment as if that accurately encapsulates her as a person.
I did this for my own mother. I did this for Barack Obama. I did this for Bernie Sanders. None of these people are "evil."
Neither is Hillary Clinton.
The Albatross
Member
Or, somebody can have a change of opinion. She grew up in an age when gay marriage wasn't socially acceptable, and as much as you want your politicians to be ideological purists, it's a simply reality that the environment that you live in has a strong psychological impact on you. It's a very normal thing in the human experience to form your opinions on topics based on the opinions of other people around you.
Just like Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Harry Reid, Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer, and yes even golden boy Bernie Sanders, virtually every politician has had an evolved position on gay marriage. Why? Because huge percentages of the American population have had evolved positions on gay marriage, not just racist, anti-gay bigots, but progressive, fair minded people who were products of their age. It would be nice to say, "I wish I had always had the reasonable position that I have today on Gay marriage and LGBTQ rights," but most of us -- especially those who are older who grew up in a much different world -- have not. SO you can choose to disqualify virtually every Democrat and most reasonable people from office, or you can choose that normal, fair minded people can hold opinions that are wrong at some point in their life, and then change their mind on them later.
Me, personally, back in the 1990s, I was luke warm to gay marriage... And not for any good reason, I think it was a mix of childhood bias and my immature teenage argumentative nature to be against everything and think everything was stupid. My state was the first to legalize it, and I took up the argument (personally) -- at the time -- that it should be brought to a ballot initiative vote instead of being decided by judges. I have gay people in my family who were some of the first people in the country to be married, but I still held this opinion myself. Within a few months of that judicial opinion, and seeing the quantitative life improvement that it was making for gay people in my state, I changed my mind. In retrospect, my private opposition to gay marriage and how it became law was stupid, misinformed, selfish, and short-sighted. But for now about half of my life, I've been a strong supporter of gay marriage. Is my opinion on gay marriage today disqualified because when I was 17 or 18 I was stupidly opposed to it? If we have an identical position today, is your position more right than mine because you've had that position your entire life (theoretically), while I've only had mine for 15 years?
That's the local Fox affiliate here in Houston, and Quanell X seems to be a very frequent guest.
That last line from him really shut his opponent down hard, damn.
This is horse shit, since not even Obama would campaign on the stuff Hillary is saying in regards to race relations and implicit bias. If you can't see the difference between her and a literal white supremacist, you're an idiot.
that's all it took for some of yall to start shitting on kap? the age old "lesser of two evils" point?
maybe try and empathize with where he's coming from instead of shitting on him because he isn't as enthusiastic about your candidate of choice as you are. it's not like he said they're the same or that he's sitting this election out or anything. unless you honestly think he's referring to trump as the lesser evil (which is silly) then I think yall should reevaluate some of your viewpoints and maybe consider where he's coming from.
maybe try and empathize with where he's coming from instead of shitting on him because he isn't as enthusiastic about your candidate of choice as you are. it's not like he said they're the same or that he's sitting this election out or anything. unless you honestly think he's referring to trump as the lesser evil (which is silly) then I think yall should reevaluate some of your viewpoints and maybe consider where he's coming from.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
I personally don't care about his lesser of two evils comment. He's disengaged with the current election. Misinformed. That's on him.
It sucks that he'll motivate others to have that stance, but there will be plenty refuting it. I just hope he keeps fighting against police brutality.
Also, he's said this before, so this isn't new to me.
It sucks that he'll motivate others to have that stance, but there will be plenty refuting it. I just hope he keeps fighting against police brutality.
Also, he's said this before, so this isn't new to me.
Aaronology
Member
I think there is some irony in you taking offense over people criticizing CK for a single comment and ignoring, you believe, his overall message and what he has done in general.
not sure where in my post you're getting this from
Aaronology
Member
"That's all it took" is a question that directly implies people are being unreasonably critical of him, does it not?
Angelus Errare
Banned
I agree completely but again at this point, what do you want? Should she continue to be against gay marriage?
Ryzaki009
Member
Eh to be fair he couldn't.
The reaction to a black man saying some of those things about race relations would be very different. It'd be the "he's just saying it cause he's black factor."
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Blew dudes top back like 10 words into his first sentence. Surprised he still had enough soul left from that weapons grade ether to muster that "Good."
I believe so, yes. specifically the misrepresentation of his quote that some people have been doing by thinking he said:
I don't see how that means that people are ignoring everything else he's doing though. hell, the person who originally quoted kap's comment said "i support kap but.." so clearly this isn't an issue of me thinking that because of these comments people are ignoring everything else he's done.
You getting paid for these posts?
excelsiorlef
Member
What the hell?
This doesn't take away from what Hillary is doing, especially when it could mean losing votes. For kaep to say they're the same, especially at a time when change can truly happen, shows he'd rather look a leader than be one.
They should.
EdibleKnife
Member
Dude on the right is a gross idiot. I'll never understand the "Move to another country" bit. Just say you don't want black people here in the first place instead of spinning it into a fault of minorities. The reason people critique anything is because they want it to be better. The only reason so many have and are considering leaving America now is because after centuries of trying to make it better only to be met with opposition, they realize it's beyond help. Some choose to believe that what America claims to stand for can be reached but have to butt heads with idiots who never want it to change and sometimes literally regress to eras where white was right and all POCs had to fall in line. The people who say go back to their own country, conveniently always forget about Indigenous Americans or that if they are of German or Irish decent, they too were once not fucking welcome here by the majority.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I remember that video of Hillary Clinton backstage with BLM protestors where she coldly deflected from their discussion, because she didn't care.
In the end, they're both imperialists and colonialists maintaining white supremacist capitalism. That's where Kaep's coming from, and it's been a common narrative in civil rights activism for a generation. He's not just irresponsibly equating them, but rather his view of them is that they're both protecting the establishment as it is when he'd rather have complete change in our system.
That's complete fiction. She got real with them and told them you can't force change, but you can enact laws. Please don't make shit up, now is not the time to tear down legit allies for bullshit, especially a future president.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Fair enough. I saw it as her knowing they can't do shit and don't matter to her. She has the political power to enact laws and work with them, but what is she actually going to do?
From my perspective, things like Clinton dropping "implicit bias" in the debate are her pandering to white academic Americans who know the language rather than her giving a shit, just like how Trump talks to white America when he says he's talking to black America. I'm not equating the two at all since Clinton's objectively better as a candidate in thousands of ways, but race is honestly just going to be an issue that I don't think either candidate gives a true fuck about unless it's pandering to diversity or general claims of unity.
What the hell is this?
Yep. I support him all the way but this was a weird thing to say. Hillary and Trump are not even in the same ballpark.
What exactly is horse shit about my statement?
His revolutionary voice is weakened with people if he comes out full force behind an establishment candidate. You think the people on the ground would be moved by him coming out claiming hillary isnt the lesser of two evils?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Remember when no one understood why BLM cared about protesting Bernie Sanders over anyone else? Remember how neither Hillary or Bernie even had a "racial justice" section in their websites until that happened?
They're holding the democrats accountable for their promises. It's not that they're equally evil, but that ultimately much less positive work will be done than is promised. See it from an activist's perspective.
They're holding the democrats accountable for their promises. It's not that they're equally evil, but that ultimately much less positive work will be done than is promised. See it from an activist's perspective.
Oh geez, Matt Patrick. He's one of many human turds that proudly stink up the AM ultra-right airwaves out here in Houston. I hate-listen to his show and Hannity's on the commute home sometimes. He's the one that likes to play a pistol firing sound everytime a caller says something he likes.
Exactly.
Folks want Kaepernick to be Mr Democrat, when hes out here trying to change the system.
If you are a revolutionary, or are engaged in revolutionary action, then Hillary is the Lesser of two evils. It isnt calling her the same as donald trump, but it is telling the truth of the situation.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Really should have skipped this..
excelsiorlef
Member
I mean maybe but one of HRC's early forays into activism was to do undercover work to expose racial bias and racism in education in the deep south...
She said "racist"numerous times last night, which is white America's trigger word, stop short changing her.
This is just not true, kap having an educated stand on the education would strengthen him, it's the exact fucking reason the media keeps asking him. Hillary is literally calling the other candidate racist to their face in front of millions of people. For Colin to not recognize this and at least get educated on her numerous policy proposals to help us, is worse for the black community and he might as well had not take a stand. There is a post on this page that proves she will do SOMETHING for us.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Absolutely, and I loved Aaronology's (paid) post in another thread educating people on her racial justice history. But is Hillary really who we want to defend when you want to talk about racial justice, or is it just that she's not Trump? Are we just falling for the same thing that makes Trump fans overlook his faults because he's not Clinton? I hate arguing for who's better when I actually just want someone great who's committed to doing real shit because their own skin is on the line.
I think Kaep's got a good read on who she really is and isn't caught up in this Democrat vs Republican thing.
We can't get bloody revolutionary change like it used to mean, we're too divided and white America would love to be rid of us. Dating someone who actively fought for us their while life is a lesser of evils, one who can bring bloodless change, and you want to paint her with your own enemy's brush.
Wait so you know all she's done for us, and she's the most qualified presidential candidate ever, but it's not enough? Really? More feelings ism crap.
excelsiorlef
Member
I'm sorry what, your argument was that Clinton clearly doesn't care about racial justice
Her history shows different.
Is she perfect at it? Fuck no. But to assume she just doesn't care has no basis in reality.
And this was a response to you not Kaepernick.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
You don't change the system without the right people in power, without people voting(strategic or not) and it's irresponsible to suggest she's in anyway a shade of "evil", particularly when she and her ilk are the ones acknowledging the issues and wanna help move things in the right direction.
He should be out there saying VOTE VOTE VOTE during EVERY election, no matter how big or small, otherwise ain't shit gonna change, and if the wrong people continue to get victories, then good fucking luck.
What isnt true about it?
If he came out like "Yaaaass Hillary" BLM peeps will be like he's selling out. That isnt revolutionary speech.
He has recognized it by implying she is the lesser of two evils.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Like it or not, she supported what's ultimately been one of the most devastating changes to policing that's resulted in millions of incarcerated black people. So, I mean, that's history, if we want to look at it that way.
When I'm with Kaep, it's because I know he knows what he's talking about. He's clearly read up, studied, talked to people, and tried to understand what's happening, what he can do, and what others can do. I'm not ready to be happy for Clinton just because she's the least racist pick. I'll be thrilled when she beats Trump and is the president, because that's what we've got as our best option, but I'm not about to throw Kaep under the bus because he called her evil. Dude's right, even if she has to be to be a successful woman in politics.
Black Twitter is going after folks who say don't vote right now.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Like is this really what you guys actually care about? Triggering racists? This is the standard you have for her?
So Kaepernick is your spokesman now?
You sound just like the folks who say he shouldn't have protested the anthem, and instead have donated money elsewhere.
It isnt his job to tell people to vote vote vote. He simply gave his opinion about voting for a lesser evil, and apparently many people agree with him.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Please. You need some solutions here, and voting is the only way things are gonna truly change, this is a fact. He's got a podium here, the ears of lots of young folk and potentially turning them against politics and what needs to be done is helping who exactly?
He's not infallible, and yes, saying Clinton should essentially be in prison during his first interview is not only wrong, but ass-backwards for the cause.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Causes without critical analysis to improve aren't worth shit. Causes that don't actively fight against being complacent and accepting of lesser options will succumb to them.
What are you even saying? "Don't say don't vote" if you really just mean "don't say bad things about Hillary because we need her" is weak as fuck. Dude can say anything he wants just like he can take a knee anywhere he wants.
No he didn't. Because to recognize means he at least educated himself in the candidates. He obviously didn't do that, because he wouldn't come out saying that lame ass both sides shit.
No i care she's publicly taking on the first step to true racial healing instead of just going to march every weekend for the rest of my life. I'd rather go for a real change maker, who despite being the most powerful woman in America and getting all the shit that comes with that in this sexist society, is still able to do what she can for us. I'm not gonna let some uninformed "hero" spout off about maybe the first time in history to enact real change for black Americans.
If he cares about black Americans, including those who got beat just to exercise the right to vote with no chance of change, it's his absolute responsibility to tell every black American who now seems him as that next step for equal standing to vote.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
What are YOU even saying?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Like what?
Uh....
Kaepernick has clearly read a lot of revolutionary writing, and he's coming at this whole election from that most basic of perspectives. Any BLM leader would tell you the same things as him, because it's on their website. When they talk about "state violence," do you think Hillary as a politician is exempt from that criticism?
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