Support NeoGAF

[guek]

Did you?

Despite the fact that the Sanders campaign staffer initially lied about breaching Hillary's data, Bernie himself lied when he said his campaign did nothing with Hillary's data, which is why Politifact gave him a "Mostly False" in that article.

What did they do with the data?

The article itself states there's no way to know if they copied or printed what they queried.

The "mostly false" doesn't even make any sense in the context of Sanders' claim. He said they didn't "go out and take" any info, Politifact says "From all accounts, it is true that the Sanders campaign did not attempt to break into the voter data of a rival campaign" so what exactly is false here? They accessed data for less than 2hrs and the guy who did it was fired and two other staff members were suspended.

 

[Deepwater]

I mean, out of the field, even when expanded to all primary candidates in all four parties, who else even remotely had competent foreign policy experience?

I get not being a fan of her Foreign Policy (I'm not either), but it's not really like there was a good alternative. But hey, now we get Steve "Wants to watch the world burn" Bannon in Trump's ear.

And as Democrats prepare to find a candidate to run in 2020, that (among other things) is something to think about in regards to their platform.

I'm personally tired of seeing on the news that we've "accidentally" bombed another middle eastern village or hospital. And while it's not THE deciding factor for me, there's always the state and local elections.

And you can shame me and scream 8 years of Trump at me if you want. I didn't vote for him.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

For example:

How did she elevate them? How did she make them run?

If you mean using "Mexico is sending their worst, their rapists, etc." against him in a manner that says, how can you support this, then I guess?

The last point, "taking him seriously" was just good advice.

 

[whyamihere]

For example:

Again.

This is to the effective of trying to tie Jeb! and Rubio to Cruz and Trump. It's not getting Trump on TV or whatever. It's exactly what Obama did with Romney.

 

[Gruco]

I mean, this is an easy question:

Should the Democratic candidates in Delaware Senate District 10 and Minnesota House District 32B running for election in swing seats in the next two weeks have access to Bernie's email list?

If they wanted to raise money they should have run for president in 2016 using Bernie's platform. Won't learn anything otherwise.

 

[Intheflorsh]

The DNC should be putting their money into targeted social media outreach, I fear they're still too caught up in traditional media. The republicans have an absolute stranglehold on places like facebook, and meanwhile the democrats are worrying about a mailing list of all things.

 

[whyamihere]

I mean, this is an easy question:

Should the Democratic candidates in Delaware Senate District 10 and Minnesota House District 32B running for election in swing seats in the next two weeks have access to Bernie's email list?

I'm still wondering this. Everyone is welcome to reply!

 

[jtb]

The DNC should be putting their money into targeted social media outreach, I fear they're still too caught up in traditional media. The republicans have an absolute stranglehold on places like facebook, and meanwhile the democrats are worrying about a mailing list of all things.

Seriously. The Nazis have overrun Twitter and Reddit, while my Facebook is where you to read your racist uncle's ravings. Gotta get with the times.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

And as Democrats prepare to find a candidate to run in 2020, that (among other things) is something to think about in regards to their platform.

I'm personally tired of seeing on the news that we've "accidentally" bombed another middle eastern village or hospital. And while it's not THE deciding factor for me, there's always the state and local elections.

And you can shame me and scream 8 years of Trump at me if you want. I didn't vote for him.

I didn't shame you. I agreed with you that foreign policy was not a strong point for me with her....

I was just making a general statement saying this is what we now have. Now quite literally the worst possible scenario imaginable. Not to mention the domestic policy that is already a shitshow and will only get worse.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Bernie aint giving that shit up. Besides, it's not the LIST that showed how he rallied that many people to the cause. It was his spirit. Talking about real issues. Not platitudes and outrage at the antics of Trump the shitbag. Bernie got played. Now you assholes get to figure it out for yourself.

Also, The DNC antics have paved a way for a tea-party like movement that's already exploding in just weeks,

Justice Democrats have gathered over 110,000 members in just a couple weeks, and have collected almost a half million on contributions. And we're not even half way to 2018.

Step aside you crooks.

Also, There are outsides jumping in the race for DNC chair
Samuel Ronan had some choice words that are starting to get viral:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1rpINookVU&t=439s
(Warning: Annoying Jimmy Dore)

This video shows the incompetence of those running for the position, and then Samuel steps in and give them heat.



"Bu-Bu-But it wasn't the DNC!"

The Tea Party was largely successful because it had major financial backing from people like the Koch brothers

Half a million? That's like 1/4th of an average house seat and much less for a competitive one (since noncompetitive elections bring the average down). Hope there's a lot more coming

Spoiler

there's not

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

What did they do with the data?

The article itself states there's no way to know if they copied or printed what they queried.

The "mostly false" doesn't even make any sense in the context of Sanders' claim. He said they didn't "go out and take" any info, Politifact says "From all accounts, it is true that the Sanders campaign did not attempt to break into the voter data of a rival campaign" so what exactly is false here? They accessed data for less than 2hrs and the guy who did it was fired and two other staff members were suspended.

The data was moved from the central server to the local computer accessing. That's not up for debate. It can't be known what else was done with it after that. That's what is meant.

They're a difference between intentionally looking for vulnerabilities and coming up them.

 

[BasicMath]

And yes just blacklisting everyone is a fantastic solution.

It's justified. The DNC/Clinton Staff fucked up absolutely everything. It was a catastrophe. An actual tragedy that had been ongoing for years. Burn it all down like the plague that it is.

The fact that they're still on with their delusions is insane. I thought it would end after all the excuses they kept making for Clinton losing but I was wrong it seems. Now they believe that there's a magic email list out there that can cure their incompetence. The party is screwed.

 

[Salamando]

The DNC should be putting their money into targeted social media outreach, I fear they're still too caught up in traditional media. The republicans have an absolute stranglehold on places like facebook, and meanwhile the democrats are worrying about a mailing list of all things.

The mailing list will be of great benefit to the DNC, even if they never send a single email from it. Any remotely capable analyst can use it to figure out the exact demographics Bernie energized that the DNC has failed to. With that, they'll be better situated to find a candidate for 2020 that is capable of getting people's asses to the polls.

If you don't think the DNC is capable of that...well, this country is truly fucked then.

 

[Rentahamster]

How did she elevate them? How did she make them run?

If you mean using "Mexico is sending their worst, their rapists, etc." against him in a manner that says, how can you support this, then I guess?

The last point, "taking him seriously" was just good advice.

How did she make them run? What does that even matter? My point was about the DNC trying out a strategy that helps Trump.

Again.

This is to the effective of trying to tie Jeb! and Rubio to Cruz and Trump. It's not getting Trump on TV or whatever. It's exactly what Obama did with Romney.

What point of mine are you trying to argue against?

 

[legacyzero]

The Tea Party was largely successful because it had major financial backing from people like the Koch brothers

Half a million? That's like 1/4th of an average house seat and much less for a competitive one (since noncompetitive elections bring the average down). Hope there's a lot more coming

Spoiler

there's not

 

[Deepwater]

The mailing list will be of great benefit to the DNC, even if they never send a single email from it. Any remotely capable analyst can use it to figure out the exact demographics Bernie energized that the DNC has failed to. With that, they'll be better situated to find a candidate for 2020 that is capable of getting people's asses to the polls.

If you don't think the DNC is capable of that...well, this country is truly fucked then.

Seems like the DNC needs to find one of those first.

 

[Trey]

The DNC should see why Bernie was so successful and try emulate that formular instead of trying to force themselves upon his followers.


The age of old politics is over.

lmao you thought

 

[kirblar]

The Tea Party was largely successful because it had major financial backing from people like the Koch brothers

Half a million? That's like 1/4th of an average house seat and much less for a competitive one (since noncompetitive elections bring the average down). Hope there's a lot more coming

Spoiler

there's not

Melissa McByrne's reaction to them (former Bernie GOTV coordinator, current Vice Chair DNC candidate) didn't pull punches: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229023067&postcount=4501

Here's a stat breakdown of Hillary/Bernie. http://graphics.wsj.com/elections/2016/how-clinton-won/

He couldn't win a primary with his platform. Looking at this data breakdown, this actually suggests to me that the big post-primary and post-election integration problem is that his greatest support came in two places that are gigantic cultural bubbles: college campuses and rural white areas.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Half a million dollars in two weeks is nothing special in modern politics, especially for a new group which likely benefited from an initial surge in donations.

 

[Valhelm]

Protectionism, a small bit of nationalism, and "free" healthcare and college.

Honestly? Nothing to note in my mind. Protectionism is not going to work well in a globalized society, nationlism is meh, and universal healthcare and more access to colleges is a tough sell when you're going to have to say taxes need to go up even just a little.

This kind of myopia is horrifying. When something like universal healthcare a "tough sell", you don't give up on it. Instead, you incorporate the idea as a policy goal and work toward it. Sustained campaigns like the push for school desegregation or gay marriage have a very good track record for changing policy. These long-term projects also foster interest in politics, especially among young, poor, or otherwise vulnerable people who the Democratic party has left behind.

Democrats like yourself, would rather throw their hands in the air rather than push for meaningful change, are a danger to our country.

 

[Killthee]

Democrats often "treat their email lists as Chicken Little, 'sky is falling,' trying to con money out of people, whereas Bernie took steps to actually bring people together and have messaging that they were a part of it and treat people with respect," Whitney says.

Didn't sign up for bernies list so I don't know how he handled it, but the other part about dems being chicken little and perpetually begging for money is so fucking true. Hate giving my email to liberal causes ocause of that.

 

[whyamihere]

How did she make them run? What does that even matter? My point was about the DNC trying out a strategy that helps Trump.



What point of mine are you trying to argue against?

You are trying to argue that the DNC was trying to help Trump when you're failing to understand at all the actual strategy.

 

[kirblar]

This kind of myopia is horrifying. When something like universal healthcare a "tough sell", you don't give up on it. Instead, you incorporate the idea as a policy goal and work toward it. Sustained campaigns like the push for school desegregation or gay marriage have a very good track record for changing policy. These long-term projects also foster interest in politics, especially among young, poor, or otherwise vulnerable people who the Democratic party has left behind.

Democrats like yourself, would rather throw their hands in the air rather than push for meaningful change, are a danger to our country.

The last time we had control of congress and the WH, we passed the ACA.

It's on the Agenda, but we need a wave in 2020 in order to have a chance at doing anything other than defending Obama's legacy.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

"Corportations are the real problem" and a list that leaves out any mention of issues facing minorities or women should probably be a clue.

This is a weasely post. Don't try and stealth-accuse people like this. They were asked a question and they answered. Besides, a big portion of the economic and labor issues cited commonly by Bernie supporters/the left in general do have a profound effect on women and minority groups.

While I agree that the Bernie campaign was a bit slow on the uptake responding to the BLM movement (if you remember, both Hillary and Bernie rallies were interrupted by protestors and neither were... inspiring in their direct responses really) both Clinton and Sanders eventually each had a prominent platform statement addressing these social issues.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
https://berniesanders.com/issues/fighting-for-womens-rights/
https://berniesanders.com/issues/fighting-for-lgbt-equality/

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/racial-justice/
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/lgbt-equality/
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/womens-rights-and-opportunity/

 

[MechanicalWall]

Melissa McByrne's reaction to them (former Bernie GOTV coordinator, current Vice Chair DNC candidate) didn't pull punches: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229023067&postcount=4501

Here's a stat breakdown of Hillary/Bernie. http://graphics.wsj.com/elections/2016/how-clinton-won/

He couldn't win a primary with his platform. Looking at this data breakdown, this actually suggests to me that the big post-primary and post-election integration problem is that his greatest support came in two places that are gigantic cultural bubbles: college campuses and rural white areas.

The fact that Hillary beat Bernie in the 'Income less than 50,000' category really does shatter a lot of myths. I keep seeing the narrative that Hillary was only winning over 'coastal elites', but apparently, she beat him in the lower and lower-middle class groups as well.

 

[Rentahamster]

You are trying to argue that the DNC was trying to help Trump when you're failing to understand at all the actual strategy.

Elevating his profile, and giving his candidacy legitimacy to the press isn't considered "helping"?

 

[royalan]

Didn't sign up for bernies list so I don't know how he handled it, but the other part about dems being chicken little and perpetually begging for money is so fucking true. Hate giving my email to liberal causes ocause of that.

Every campaign on both sides of the aisle does this.

 

[maxiell]

Ideas become stronger as they're tested against each other. Creating a false unity around "We've got to stop the President!" actually hampers integrity and the good that comes out of a marketplace of ideas.

The DNC did everything they could to stop Sanders last time out. There is a fairly good chance they are going to do it again in four years, in which case, why would he give them anything?

 

[whyamihere]

Elevating his profile, and giving his candidacy legitimacy to the press isn't considered "helping"?

Again -- That is not what a pied piper strategy is! If you choose to be willfully ignorant about what the strategy entails (something that's already been described to you) then there's nothing more to say.

 

[wildfire]

Obama and Clinton supported most of these things, or various implementations of them.

So your goal is to go back and rehash an election with voters Clinton struggled to connect with or are you going to take to hear that she never came across as someone who leaned more in support of Wall Street types than the people in the labor market?


Obama did a few things right but like most world leaders he opted to keep the current Wall Street leadership in power instead of gutting them after we were forced to bail them out.

Nothing wrong in having people in the world handling lots of money. There is everything wrong when we get put into a recession thanks to their mistakes and they aren't properly punished.

Half of what was done in Iceland would've been far more preferable and both the country and the Democratic party would be better off.



Clinton has obvious appeal when it comes to Medicare and Education but she wasn't the total package like Sanders was.


But it doesn't matter anymore because H Clinton is politically dead. This is supposed to be about the DNC and their ability to raise funds. If they want money from Bernie types getting their addresses isn't going to change anything.



It's like someone else said earlier. The DNC was so terrible it was the ACLU leading the charge against Trump's Muslim ban rhetoric and they ended up collecting a huge sum of donations because of it. If the DNC had actually cared, if they actually had vision or if they even were smart enough to see an opportunity they could've gotten a lot of donations as well riding that wave. But they lacked the charisma, intelligence and sincerity so they floundered where the ACLU didn't.

 

[Arttemis]

He should have conceded after he got buried on Super Tuesday and clearly couldn't win the African-American support needed in a Democratic primary. Any 'ethics violations' (AKA getting a tip about the most obvious question ever) mentioned in these emails came long after the point any sane person would have gracefully conceded.

Which ethics clauses?

Go ahead, cite them.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz, along with most of the staff of the party violated the DNC's charter to remain impartial during the primary elections. That was a breach of ethics, and the party defended it by saying the charter was political in nature and "campaign promises are not legally enforceable."

 

[old manatee]

The DNC should ask Al Gore to ask Bono for U2's mailing list.

 

[Gruco]

While I agree that the Bernie campaign was a bit slow on the uptake responding to the BLM movement (if you remember, both Hillary and Bernie rallies were interrupted by protestors and neither were... inspiring in their direct responses really) both Clinton and Sanders eventually each had a prominent platform statement addressing these social issues.

FWIW, I think a key lesson from 2016 was that platform statements are in no way indicative of the core values of a campaign.

 

[legacyzero]

It's irritating seeing folks claim Bernie had no Social Justice platform. It's ignorant, biased bullshit.

Was he not as popular as Hillary in that regard? No. but to willfully disregard ALL of his history in fighting for social justice for no good reason other than because you just dont feel like acknowledging it because he's wasn't your candidate, is embarrassing.

Half a million dollars in two weeks is nothing special in modern politics, especially for a new group which likely benefited from an initial surge in donations.

Ok. Clearly your view on this is based on scientific, and objective logic.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

How did she make them run? What does that even matter? My point was about the DNC trying out a strategy that helps Trump.



What point of mine are you trying to argue against?

Because if you're trying to say she elevated him or helped him in general or causd him to run, you also need to describe how this was accomplished.

Yes, you're making those statements. But how did she elevate him? Did she use his own words against him in a manner that says how can this be supported to GOP moderates? Did she pay him? Promise him a cabinet position? How? Was there a meeting with him? Why didn't it work with Carson? Cruz?

In a normal universe, pointing out and "elevating" the things he said would sink a candidate easily.

 

[Valhelm]

The last time we had control of congress and the WH, we passed the ACA.

It's on the Agenda, but we need a wave in 2020 in order to have a chance at doing anything other than defending Obama's legacy.

The fact that the Democrats couldn't do much more than pass an inadequate healthcare bill that doesn't address the source of uninsurance isn't much of a ringing endorsement.

I agree that Bernie ought to release this Email list to help fight the GOP, but Democrats' problems are structural. Disinterest in enacting meaningful change and futile attempts at bipartisan compromise hold Democrats back when they have power and harm their electoral prospects when they don't.

 

[yogloo]

Dnc is all about that email life.

 

[whyamihere]

The fact that the Democrats couldn't do much more than pass an inadequate healthcare bill that doesn't address the source of uninsurance isn't much of a ringing endorsement.

I agree that Bernie ought to release this Email list to help fight the GOP, but Democrats' problems are structural. Disinterest in enacting meaningful change and futile attempts at bipartisan compromise hold Democrats back when they have power and harm their electoral prospects when they don't.

We didn't have the filibuster and were at the mercy of a shithead who we tried to primary but who won anyway. Lessons learned.

 

[Staccat0]

Shrug. Just share the list Bernie. I guess I'm just tired of the bickering anymore when we have a fascist wanna be as president. That goes both ways though and with voters as well.

I'm in the same boat. I'm too fucking exhausted and worried about my family to have any patience For shenanigans. This stuff just depresses me

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

I mean, this is an easy question:

Should the Democratic candidates in Delaware Senate District 10 and Minnesota House District 32B running for election in swing seats in the next two weeks have access to Bernie's email list?

No? Those people gave their emails to Bernie, not whomever is running in those districts. If they want them to have their emails, they will give them to them.

 

[Rentahamster]

Again -- That is not what a pied piper strategy is! If you choose to be willfully ignorant about what the strategy entails (something that's already been described to you) then there's nothing more to say.

My point isn't arguing the definition of a "pied piper strategy". My point is showing how the DNC was incompetent in this one area, how it helped Trump's campaign, and quoting their exact words outlining that strategy.

 

[Abelard]

"Corportations are the real problem" and a list that leaves out any mention of issues facing minorities or women should probably be a clue.

This is a dangerously anti-intellectual post. First, to deny that harking on corporations was the only thing going on- and second of all acting like economic issues aren't "real issues" facing minorities and women. I am a minority, and I am quite certain economic issues effect me too. I'm sure I would like free health care for example. Who gave you the authority the decide what issues individual minorities face, anyways?

 

[Blader]

The transformation in Bernie Sanders' profile over the last two years is pretty incredible: from an obscure Independent socialist to, despite a decisive primary loss, one of the most powerful Democraic figures in the country.

So Bernie's guy Ellison wants it too as well as the horrible awful establishment hack Perez?

This is a very strong opinion of Tom Perez and I'm curious what makes you think he's such a horrible, awful hack?

Nothing about this presidency is appealing to progressives, but simply getting Bernie's email list isn't really going to change anything on its own. The people who signed up for Bernie's mailing list who aren't currently signed up for the DNC's mailing list aren't going to magically get involved with the DNC when they start getting emails from them. Faith in the Democratic party establishment is at rock bottom with people further left than the party platform. It's going to take a lot of work to win people over, and that should probably start with making an earnest effort to 1. show any signs of life fighting against the GOP (Schumer has made it pretty clear this is not in the playbook yet) and 2. vocally outlining plans to address issues important to the far left, particularly labor and social issues.

The DNC has done a pretty woeful job of riding any sort of social issue waves recently. They were tepid at best getting on board with BLM. The ACLU made far more noise about the immigration ban than any official party response. They approved of The Women's March from the sidelines, but that's about it. They let the GOP walk all over them during the cabinet appointment process, purposefully avoiding being seen as "obstructionist" and then letting the fight they viewed as the most important to win, Sessions, slip through their fingers, with only Warren daring to really step up to the plate and show any signs of life.

No offense, but you sound like you've been out of the loop for several weeks now. Schumer hasn't made it clear that fighting the GOP isn't in his playbook? He has publicly said that many times, even naming the cabinet nominees that he would be opposing. Democrats let the GOP walk over them during the cabinet confirmation process to avoid being seen as obstructionist? They've grilled the vast majority of these nominees in their hearings and on the floor (which, as the minority party, is about all they can do); they've used procedural rules to delay votes, even reused to show up to committees to keep them from moving forward; multiple senators spoke harshly about Sessions and DeVos (and you can likely expect the same for Price, Mnuchin, Puzder, Pruitt, Mulvaney), and Booker was the first senator to speak out against another sitting senator up for a cabinet spot; and Sessions didn't slip through their fingers, because they never had the votes to stop him or any nominee from being confirmed in the first place.

The Democrats are extremely limited in what they can do in the Senate right now; they literally and mathematically cannot win any of these cabinet fights. But to claim that they aren't doing anything and aren't being obstructionist when they can and that everyone but Warren is just rolling over is all completely and utterly false. "Lazy, spineless Dems" is a nice convenient narrative to fall back on, but it doesn't really reflect what Senate Dems are actually doing right now.

 

[Trey]

It's irritating seeing folks claim Bernie had no Social Justice platform. It's ignorant, biased bullshit.

Was he not as popular as Hillary in that regard? No. but to willfully disregard ALL of his history in fighting for social justice for no good reason other than because you just dont feel like acknowledging it because he's wasn't your candidate, is embarrassing.

It was pretty trash. He sincerely thinks just closing the wage gap and going after corporations will solve racial inequality - this was his entire problem when it came to BLM. But money is a symptom, not the cause.

Bernie's recent comments that he doesn't like "identity politics" makes me believe he still doesn't get it.

 

[whyamihere]

No? Those people gave their emails to Bernie, not whomever is running in those districts. If they want them to have their emails, they will give them to them.

So you're okay with losing our democratic trifecta in Delaware?

 

[Rentahamster]

Because if you're trying to say she elevated him or helped him in general or causd him to run, you also need to describe how this was accomplished.

Yes, you're making those statements. But how did she elevate him? Did she use his own words against him in a manner that says how can this be supported to GOP moderates? Did she pay him? Promise him a cabinet position? How? Was there a meeting with him? Why didn't it work with Carson? Cruz?

In a normal universe, pointing out and "elevating" the things he said would sink a candidate easily.

Dude...the source is right here:

 

[whyamihere]

Dude...the source is right here:

Again, you're fundamentally misunderstanding what a pied piper strategy is.

 

[royalan]

Debbie Wasserman Schultz, along with most of the staff of the party violated the DNC's charter to remain impartial during the primary elections. That was a breach of ethics, and the party defended it by saying the charter was political in nature and "campaign promises are not legally enforceable."

Absolutely wrong.

Bernie Sanders and the Sanders Campaign was given impartial treatment by the DNC within the process of the primary.

That does not change just because DWS personally didn't like Bernie, and wrote that in a personal email.

Within the machinations of the Democratic primary, was Bernie Sanders not treated impartially?

 

[Valhelm]

It was pretty trash. He sincerely thinks just closing the wage gap and going after corporations will solve racial inequality - this was his entire problem when it came to BLM. But money is a symptom, not the cause.

Bernie's recent comments that he doesn't like "identity politics" makes me believe he still doesn't get it.

I agree that Bernie's platform didn't adequately address the root of racial inequality, but do you mind explaining how Hillary was any better?

Her proposals for racial justice amounted to "starting conversations" and minimal legalistic fixes for similar symptoms. The imagined hard-hitting condemnations of white supremacist attitudes and policies just weren't there.

 

[Rentahamster]

Again, you're fundamentally misunderstanding what a pied piper strategy is.

You mean, the DNC misunderstands what a pied piper strategy is. I'm pointing out what they did.