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Phil Spencer feels it's counter productive to lock people away from games by making them device exclusive, prefers to scale games across ecosystem

Saaleh

Banned
Its no mumbojumbo there is a clear messaging, but you are 100% right that it is born out of necessity, because last time they were off message they got absolutely destroyed. So you can't blame them for the approach they are taking if you look at it from an unbiased logical view.

The messaging was not clear, not only that they were adding one lie after another since the introduction of kinect, there were signs of them heading to this dead end and only few were able to see it. Only few because every year MS kept over promising and kept claiming that they will destroy sony so yearly they told fans to be eager for these conferences. I personally don't blame them for this approach because it's expected from a company that keeps digging its grave in a competitive battle, in n4g i actually was really happy that they are taking this approach. With such leadership, we know that they can't do better against sony, but they can do better compared to their awful past, this way i have the chance to play gears and Hellblade on PC, so i like where they are heading.

My issue is with his fans that are still in denial of this reality while attacking anyone who is hyped for a next gen console like ps5. Exclusives job is to create icons for the brand, its job is to blow our minds since their development are not facing as many limitations as the third party stuff, so anyone fighting sony is my gaming enemy.

Most of PS owners don't have a gaming pc. So if Phil is true to his words he would take advantage of the playstation base and release his service to over 108 million playstation console gamers. I think eventually he will do it unless the xbox department hire better and more fitted leaders who are not afraid of taking risks.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Nothing i saw from the Sony June event puts MS in jeoperady in terms of pushing cross gen for the 1st year, Halo Infinite will probably look better than any game shown at the sony event at launch. Just being honest.
From what we've seen so far it looks like a cross gen game
 

wolffy71

Banned
Idk why people keep talking about this topic. What more is to be said. Developers working on games capable of running on different settings has been a thing forever. Everyone knows it, some dont think devs will make it happen on xbox. Thats pretty much all there is to say about it. Page after page of people reiterating those two points.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Also Phil Spencer.

EclFxrwXoAIT-Ii.png

Of course he's going to say whatever is in favor of their current strategy.

I like their current strategy, to be honest, but I also see that he's a professional bullshitter.
 
Nothing i saw from the Sony June event puts MS in jeoperady in terms of pushing cross gen for the 1st year, Halo Infinite will probably look better than any game shown at the sony event at launch. Just being honest.

Probably-Honest.

I don't think you understand what you just said.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
The games at the sony event looked pretty cross gen. We'll see what Halo Infinite looks like on XSX soon. I have to disagree with you though on Halo Infinite. The 1-2 second in game footage when the health bar shows up looked amazing.
Which one do you have the link?
 

Azurro

Banned
Thank you for saying this, because neither do you

You are free not to believe me because COnsOLe WArZZ, but I'm actually explaining to you how hw constraints can affect game design, how some features are discrete and how some are scalable. There's no console wars in what I'm telling you, I'm just telling you how things work and why what MS is doing is marketing nonsense.

Which is stupid, they don't need that, they have a really good product in their hands.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
The messaging was not clear, not only that they were adding one lie after another since the introduction of kinect, there were signs of them heading to this dead end and only few were able to see it. Only few because every year MS kept over promising and kept claiming that they will destroy sony so yearly they told fans to be eager for these conferences. I personally don't blame them for this approach because it's expected from a company that keeps digging its grave in a competitive battle, in n4g i actually was really happy that they are taking this approach. With such leadership, we know that they can't do better against sony, but they can do better compared to their awful past, this way i have the chance to play gears and Hellblade on PC, so i like where they are heading.

My issue is with his fans that are still in denial of this reality while attacking anyone who is hyped for a next gen console like ps5. Exclusives job is to create icons for the brand, its job is to blow our minds since their development are not facing as many limitations as the third party stuff, so anyone fighting sony is my gaming enemy.

Most of PS owners don't have a gaming pc. So if Phil is true to his words he would take advantage of the playstation base and release his service to over 108 million playstation console gamers. I think eventually he will do it unless the xbox department hire better and more fitted leaders who are not afraid of taking risks.
Where would Microsoft have money to pay third parties or make a profit if sony is taking 30% off the top. Gamespass only works if they are not paying anyone else a cut. Especially if it is all cloud based and paying server costs on top of it.

Phil is the best leader Microsoft has had since Peter moore. Phil inherited a division in ruins with zero budget. He has done one hell of a job so far rebuilding from what was burned to the ground. You might not like it but he got the CEO to give the division funding again to buy studios and start to make first party games again hands off letting inexile and obsidian entertainment do the games they want. He started consumer friendly practices like the awesome backwards compatibility program and brought the surface team in to help build the best looking console the one x and it is powerful quiet to boot. Now he just has to wait for the new studios to come out with games. He was also a driving force to make the series x a power house getting back to their roots. Hate him all you want he has made mistakes but done better than anyone could with what he inherited. Sure they won't beat Sony but they won't be a joke like in 2013.
 

tryDEATH

Member
The messaging was not clear, not only that they were adding one lie after another since the introduction of kinect, there were signs of them heading to this dead end and only few were able to see it. Only few because every year MS kept over promising and kept claiming that they will destroy sony so yearly they told fans to be eager for these conferences. I personally don't blame them for this approach because it's expected from a company that keeps digging its grave in a competitive battle, in n4g i actually was really happy that they are taking this approach. With such leadership, we know that they can't do better against sony, but they can do better compared to their awful past, this way i have the chance to play gears and Hellblade on PC, so i like where they are heading.

My issue is with his fans that are still in denial of this reality while attacking anyone who is hyped for a next gen console like ps5. Exclusives job is to create icons for the brand, its job is to blow our minds since their development are not facing as many limitations as the third party stuff, so anyone fighting sony is my gaming enemy.

Most of PS owners don't have a gaming pc. So if Phil is true to his words he would take advantage of the playstation base and release his service to over 108 million playstation console gamers. I think eventually he will do it unless the xbox department hire better and more fitted leaders who are not afraid of taking risks.

The Xbox One launch was just a complete mess, the clear messaging I was referring to is this upcoming generation, where they have been nothing but upfront and transparent with the direction they are trying to take Xbox in the next generation.

Also the highlighted part seems extremely childish and fanboyish, because as much shit as Xbox deserves PS is far from the perfect child and should do better in certain aspects there really aren't any enemies only rivals. As for GamePass on the PS your way to naive to believe Sony would actually allow such a thing, they barely allowed cross play and EA Access what makes you think they would allow a direct competitor into their own house.
 
He didnt say exclusives didnt matter. He said "D E V I C E E X C L U S I V E" . Meaning locking down E X C L U S I V E S to one singular device. He's literally backing is mantra when he says that the center of gaming should be the gamer, not the console. He's right. What is with the lack in reading comprehension on this forum?

Um... what? Obviously he meant exclusive to a single device... what else does exclusive mean?
 
I've to say Phil is treading on a fine line trying to spread this dogma. We all know he needs as many Xbox One users as possible hooked on Xbox Live and Gamepass to keep his job. If half of the 5-10 million hardcore Xbox gamers migrate to the competition (in the first 2 years of this new cycle) his lifeline will be cut short - it's over for that division. We all know their new, young, and understaffed studios won't have AAA content ready for the first two years (UE5, development time etc) and that Sony will be filling the slots with GOTY quality content almost every year if this gen is but an example. So Phil needs to damage control for the first two years for more " endless wait". Basically; if you're not competitive and you're not willing to compete then completely change the parameters of the debate. A way to do that is by trying to make the bullet point that hurts you the most (exclusive games) useless and insignificant in that debate. So you go out and you pre-emptively create all this BS. In essence, Phil's on bad faith preying on minds, hoping to replace exclusive games and established business practices with words. Cheap.

Obviously the "Phil the savior" cult will defend anything that they can spin some logic on, but majority of gamers won't buy his BS - and he represents a shrinking base, not the majority base represented by Sony/Nintendo. All the choices Phil has made while at the helm during this generation did jack shit to save the Xbox One from getting mauled and losing 40 million gamers. Matter of fact he didn't even attempt to feed his base with quality exclusives unlike Sony when the PS3 bombed. Now those are two different philosophies worth debating instead of the "no exclusives for anyone BS". This is the same exec that took over when the Xbox One launched, and was the head of Xbox Studios prior. We're all of the sudden supposed to believe that he decided to go on a studio buying spree only after getting a lifeline from the top? Or was it more about supporting Gamepass? What was he doing all the years before? Fiddling thumbs? Cause he definitely had a budget (lol at the few posts above me that say he didn't). What does the state of Xbox Studios say about his mediocre management skills; both prior to (as head), and after (well after) Don Matrick's departure (as the ultimate boss)?

In essence, the more he talks gaming politics (unprecedented for a head), the more risk of stumbling and alienation. Phil does benefit a lot from a crap press as gaming journalism is a total joke. So he spouts all this nonsense with little to no pushback from the press that covers him. It's only gamers who vote with their dollar that have the last word. Can you imagine this salesman under the microscope of political journalism... :messenger_grinning_sweat: - shredded to pieces.

The stigma that has been building around exclusives is a targeted, purposeful sales pitch; meant to be ideological in nature spread by those who are not delivering and are not getting the quality exclusives and content. Clearly not the other way around. So it's not surprising that this ideology is finding room in the heads of PC gamers who starve on third party multiplats (and want to play the best Sony/Nintendo exclusives day one), and Xbox gamers. This is simply a reaction to a need/want. Nintendo fans are fairly content and so are Sony fans.

We know for a fact that this is all about Phil/MS bottomline; so why pretend? But I guess that's rhetorical, his job and a whole division within MS depends on his success at this game. So he does his job.
 
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freefornow

Member
So if Phil is true to his words he would take advantage of the playstation base and release his service to over 108 million playstation console gamers.
I get the feeling that Phil would be OK with this and that resistance comes from the other side.
 

DrAspirino

Banned
You actually can port down from a more powerful cpu. Watch a video on youtube where 343 and turn 10 talk about optimizing their games on the original xbox one for 60fps an you will get a idea of what is really scalable. (If u want it to be, nearly everything can scale)
THIS!!!

Heck, just go to the "LowSpec Gamer" channel and watch how everything can be scaled down to be played even on a toaster.

People here on GAF are truly willfully ignorant when it comes to x86 scalability.

If it runs on a PS5, it can be made run on a PS4. If it runs on a XSX, it can be made run on a Xbone. PERIOD.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Nothing i saw from the Sony June event puts MS in jeoperady in terms of pushing cross gen for the 1st year, Halo Infinite will probably look better than any game shown at the sony event at launch. Just being honest.
nah.

games dont look super next gen like hellblade 2, but the generational gulf between these games is clear as daylight.


Q5GBjVF.gif

Jf78Rfd.gif
 
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I get the feeling that Phil would be OK with this and that resistance comes from the other side.
What resistance? Sony is happy to take up third party games. Xbox just has to pay Sony 30% revenue for everything they run on playstation. This is how it worked for Playstation Minecraft.

What, you expect Sony to do it for free? What planet are you from?
 

FacelessSamurai

..but cry so much I wish I had some
I've to say Phil is treading on a fine line trying to spread this dogma. We all know he needs as many Xbox One users hooked on Xbox Live and Gamepass as possible to keep his job. If half of the 5-10 million hardcore Xbox gamers migrate to the competition (in the first 2 years of this new cycle) his lifeline will be cut short - it's over for that division. We all know their new, young, and understaffed studios won't have AAA content ready for the first two years (UE5, development time etc) and that Sony will be filling the slots with GOTY quality content almost every year if this gen is but an example. So he needs to damage control for the first two years for more " endless wait". In essence; if you're not competitive, and you're not willing to compete then completely change the debate. You do that by trying to make the sales point that hurts you the most (exclusive games) useless and insignificant in that debate. So you go out and you pre-emptively create all this BS. In essence, Phil's on bad faith praying on minds, hoping to replace exclusive games and established business practices with words. Cheap.

Obviously the "Phil the savior" cult will defend anything that they can spin some logic on, but majority of gamers won't buy his BS - and he represents a shrinking base, not the majority base represented by Sony/Nintendo. All the choices made by him at the helm during this generation did jack shit to save the Xbox One from getting mauled and losing 40 million gamers. Matter of fact he didn't even attempt to feed his base with quality content unlike Sony when the PS3 bombed. Now those are two different philosophies worth debating instead of the "no exclusives for anyone BS". This is the same exec that took over when the Xbox One launched, and was the head of Xbox Studios prior. Only when he got the lifeline from up top he decided to go a buying spree to support gamepass? What was he doing on all the years before? Fiddling thumbs? Cause he definitely had a budget (lol at a the few posts above me that say he didn't). What does it say about his mediocre management about the state of Xbox Studios prior to, and after Don Matrick's departure?

In essence, the more he talks gaming politics, unprecedented for a head, the more risk of stumbling and alienation. He does benefit a lot from a crap press as gaming journalism is a total joke. So he spouts all his nonsense with little pushback from the press that covers him. It's only gamers who vote with their dollar that have the last word. Can you imagine this salesman under the microscope of political journalism... lol - shredded to pieces.

The stigma that has been building around exclusives is a targeted, purposeful sales pitch; ideological in nature spread by those who are not delivering the quality exclusives and content. It's not the other way around. So it's not surprising that this ideology is finding room in the heads of PC gamers who starve on third party multiplats (and want to play the best Sony/Nintendo exclusives day one), and Xbox gamers. Nintendo fans are fairly content and so are Sony fans.

We know for a fact that this is all about his bottomline; why pretend? But I guess that's rhetorical, his job and a whole division within MS depend on it. So he does.
PC gamers who starve on third party games, really? First time I hear this lol, I can’t even :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:

The lengths some of you go to try to discredit it anything Xbox
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I've to say Phil is treading on a fine line trying to spread this dogma. We all know he needs as many Xbox One users hooked on Xbox Live and Gamepass as possible to keep his job. If half of the 5-10 million hardcore Xbox gamers migrate to the competition (in the first 2 years of this new cycle) his lifeline will be cut short - it's over for that division. We all know their new, young, and understaffed studios won't have AAA content ready for the first two years (UE5, development time etc) and that Sony will be filling the slots with GOTY quality content almost every year if this gen is but an example. So he needs to damage control for the first two years for more " endless wait". In essence; if you're not competitive, and you're not willing to compete then completely change the debate. You do that by trying to make the sales point that hurts you the most (exclusive games) useless and insignificant in that debate. So you go out and you pre-emptively create all this BS. In essence, Phil's on bad faith praying on minds, hoping to replace exclusive games and established business practices with words. Cheap.

Obviously the "Phil the savior" cult will defend anything that they can spin some logic on, but majority of gamers won't buy his BS - and he represents a shrinking base, not the majority base represented by Sony/Nintendo. All the choices made by him at the helm during this generation did jack shit to save the Xbox One from getting mauled and losing 40 million gamers. Matter of fact he didn't even attempt to feed his base with quality content unlike Sony when the PS3 bombed. Now those are two different philosophies worth debating instead of the "no exclusives for anyone BS". This is the same exec that took over when the Xbox One launched, and was the head of Xbox Studios prior. Only when he got the lifeline from up top he decided to go a buying spree to support gamepass? What was he doing on all the years before? Fiddling thumbs? Cause he definitely had a budget (lol at a the few posts above me that say he didn't). What does it say about his mediocre management about the state of Xbox Studios prior to, and after Don Matrick's departure?

In essence, the more he talks gaming politics, unprecedented for a head, the more risk of stumbling and alienation. He does benefit a lot from a crap press as gaming journalism is a total joke. So he spouts all his nonsense with little pushback from the press that covers him. It's only gamers who vote with their dollar that have the last word. Can you imagine this salesman under the microscope of political journalism... lol - shredded to pieces.

The stigma that has been building around exclusives is a targeted, purposeful sales pitch; ideological in nature spread by those who are not delivering the quality exclusives and content. It's not the other way around. So it's not surprising that this ideology is finding room in the heads of PC gamers who starve on third party multiplats (and want to play the best Sony/Nintendo exclusives day one), and Xbox gamers. Nintendo fans are fairly content and so are Sony fans.

We know for a fact that this is all about his bottomline; why pretend? But I guess that's rhetorical, his job and a whole division within MS depend on it. So he does.
this is an excellent post. The charge against exclusives is quite shocking seeing as how Sony has shown how valuable exclusives really are. Winning the majority in four out of the last 7 goty awards with Nintendo winning one more. He has done this before with crossplay, doing a complete 180 only after his console had a shrinking userbase in need for a bailout by PS4 userbase. Once again, he hid behind the pro-consumer mantra and this time actually got his wish because gamers actually fell for it. The funny thing is that the entire gaming model is built around console manufacturers taking a loss just to get users in their eco system so they can sub to PS+ or XBL Gold and buy the game on their console so they can get the royalties and NOT the other console manufacturer. Now he gets to keep his userbase from going to ps4 to play with their friends, charge them XBL Gold to play F2P games Sony doesnt charge for, and gets royalties sony would get otherwise. it was a lose lose for Sony, and Phil ingeniously pushed them into a corner to get his way.

As a gamer, that was an easy pill to swallow. It's bad for Sony, but good for gamers. I can even tip my hat to Phil and say you won. But next gen exclusives being anti-consumer bs is bad for gamers. Plain and simple. Every xbox series x owner who buys a console and has to play last gen games on it has not been given the best experience the console has to offer. They are getting a half assed experience. Everyone knows this except for the xbox fans in this thread, and this has to be Phil's fault for brainwashing these guys. In no universe does this strategy become pro-consumer.

And yeah, Phil had an awful first few years. He was talking a lot and doing the complete opposite. I remember him saying that he didnt want to invest in single player story driven games. that GaaS was the future. i remember him cancelling a lot of Don Matrick's investments. Coalition's third person spy game was cancelled by Phil in favor of a generic gears game. Scalebound was cancelled after being forced to put in 4 player coop. Fable was cancelled and the entire studio shutdown after he took over from Don. obsidian's exclusive game for them was cancelled after years of talk because he didnt like any idea they had for him. he bought minecraft for $3 billion instead of AAA first party studios.

by the time, he came to his senses and started buying studios, it was too late. now he's not ready for his own most powerful console despite owning 15 AAA studios, and he's in full damage control mode. Because you are right, if sony releases Horizon, Demon Souls, GT7, Spiderman and Ratchet in the first year, and has GoW, Silent Hill, Death Stranding 2, and Days Gone ready for year 2 then he would be in deep shit.
 
then he would be in deep shit.

He already is and is fighting to survive and keep his job. I admire Phil for that hustle and as a speaker/marketer. He's extremely good as a salesman. The strategy he's using to go about it tho.... NOPE. Specially trying to create a line in the sand, like a politician (in gaming of all places), just to push his bottomline. He's preying on minds receptive of this little propaganda because he knows what they want to hear, and not what they should be told. Divider in chief. So no fuck that. While on a personal level he has some qualities that doesn't mean I and millions of others can't see through his BS. And this shit is not good for gaming (a hobby I like) so I give my take on it, whether some like to hear it or not.
 
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If games and consoles aren't the center of his strategy then make the entire library available to Switch and PlayStation players too. Hell while they're at it, offer Gamepass and Xbox Live memberships to Switch and PlayStation users too. Literally, reach the most players ever by just selling the Xbox Brand.

Of course that won't happen because contrary to what you may think Phil, if you don't lock content and services to your ecosystem no one is going to buy into your "ecosystem."
 
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TheGrat1

Member
Oh, Phil.
tenor.gif

PhilSpencer said:
As a player you are the center of our strategy. Our device is not the center of our strategy, our game is not the center of the strategy. We want to enable you to play the games you want to play, with the friends you want to play with, on any device.
Well then go third party, then! PlayStation owners would love to be able to play Gears on their consoles. Why bother making a console if it is not your focus? How the hell are games not something you center your strategy around? What are you planning to provide gamers (your consumers) if not that? Services? Services that deliver what? Burritos?!?!?!

All he had to say was: "We know console supplies are limited early on in generations and we want as many Xbox owners as possible to enjoy our games." and no one would have given him shit for it. When he invokes this holier than thou "not what gaming is about" nonsense he is going to get eviscerated and with good reason.

Good Lord, this man says things that are complete nonsense sometimes and it boggles my mind watching people lap it up. I must say: The mental gymnastics I have seen employed in this thread are doing a good job of making up fr the Olympics, so at least there's that.
Phil changes the tune whenever it suits him and the fans just sing along.
Nailed it.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
yeah the meme comment is pure console warring. he is pre-emptively shutting down any criticism of his approach by labeling it console warring.

extremely disingenuous, but that's Phil for you.

I look at their studios and I dont think they will be showing that many cross gen games.

- Halo Infinite - crossgen. Started dev in 2015. it can be excused. of course, saying its natively built for the xsx is a bald face shameful lie to appease their base, but again thats MS for you.
- Everwild - crossgen. shouldve been a next gen only game since they last launched a game AFTER bluepoint launched sotc, but what do i know.
- Fable - I dont think this is cross gen. they likely only started working on this after shipping horizon in october 2018.
- Forza 8 - i dont think this is cross gen either. they said they were taking a year off because it was getting samey and they did. it came out the same year as gt sport and if PD can make a next gen only sequel in 3 years, these guys can as well.
- Initiative - this is definitely next gen since its been confirmed by insiders that it wont be at the conference.
- Coalition games - they last shipped a game 8 months ago, this is definitely a next gen game. like a teaser like hellblade 2.
- hellblade 2 - clearly a next gen game even if the teaser is pre-rendered.
- state of decay 3 - came out soon after sea of thieves but it wasnt shown at the x019 event like everwild so its possible its a next gen only game.
- crackdown dev team - released a game early last year - no way they are working on a cross gen game.

i think we get maybe 2-3 cross gen AAA games max. everything else will be either indie or from third party studios like dying light. shinobi has been hinting at a pretty insane lineup of games and i dont think hes stupid enough to pimp a show with cross gen games.

i think phil is out there saying stupid shit like this because at launch, he wont have a next gen game besides forza. at most likely wont have anything until 2022. i dont see which of these studios can get a game out by holiday 2021 which is not going to be a good look considering sony should have Spiderman Miles, Ratchet, GT7, Horizon and Demon Souls out by then.

i guess what im saying is that he doesnt believe his own bullshit.

maybe, but their games still have to run on pc and lockhart

I suspect even their “next gen” games will by and large look cross gen even if they aren’t. I’d like to be surprised of course but I only expect to see 1 or 2 titles that can compete with what Sony showed
 

icerock

Member
The idea of games being on a lower pecking order than price, and power is quite a take. If it were true, and exclusives don't matter as much to masses, but only to "warriors" on the Internet. Then surely MS wrecks Sonys' shit next-gen? Considering not only they have built the most powerful console in Series X, they'd also have a significantly cheaper SKU in Lockhart compared to PS5?

Wonder how the goal posts will move when despite having the advantage in both price and power, the same story follows? I'm sure the cult will find a way.
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo
What does he know?
Ill leave gaming to Nintendo and Playstation thank you Phil. Ill leave you to your mixed messages.

Imagine this guy and Ms were leading the video games scene?.....

Xbox is like the Mancester City of Video games spend money money money to buy talent and Studios because clearly you dont have the talent compared to Nintendo or Playstation.
And how did Sony get the talent? They bought it to
 
PC gamers who starve on third party games, really? First time I hear this lol, I can’t even :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:

The lengths some of you go to try to discredit it anything Xbox
In general Microsoft has a very low reputation with PC gamers due to really bad historical decisions. Xbox is pulling out PC gaming as a shield and make up rubbish marketing because they know most Xbox customers don't know anything about PCs. The whole "scale down" mantra would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

And how did Sony get the talent? They bought it to
Sony didn't get to where it is overnight, it was through multiple console generations cultivating their staff.
The issue with Microsoft is that they really think buying studios is enough. They didn't account for the lag time before a new studio start to hit its stride.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
No, trying to force upgrades by with holding content imo is anti consumer.

But doing it only a year or so later is now pro consumer? Why do they allow third parties to do it? Why do they stop supporting Xbox 360?

You call it withholding content, I call it making content for the old platform and content for the new one. There is literally no platform where HW upgrades and OS upgrades do not cause developers to drop support over time.

Your strategy ends up under serving people that do get the new console in order to have the game be launching across generations and target a minimum common denominator.
Sure your argument can be “I am a consumer, I do not care... hire more people, spend more money, make two completely separate versions with completely separate teams... (but do not dare charge me twice or raise the price of the game)” but it is essentially the same as saying “I want the games micro transactions free and I want them all for $1.99 or less else it is anti consumer”.
Not to stay too much on the point that if for example they were making two completely different ports of the same game, one taking full advantage of the new HW and this day enabling different level scenarios or something, they would still be anti consumer by your definition as technically they are withholding content from one version on top of it being economically unpractical (I seriously doubt you would buy the game twice, once per platform).

Supporting vastly different HW and software capabilities is expensive and that eats into the R&D budget of the game itself. I think the strategy Sony has of releasing tons of AAA and AA titles at the end of a generation and even into the new one and mostly letting BC do its thing to carry the games over to the new generation and then offering new games for those that pickup the new console that are designed to take advantage of it and show what The new console can do for you.

An alternative apparently pro consumer approach is getting people to buy new HW on hype and then not giving them optimised content for a year or two...
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Well then go third party, then! PlayStation owners would love to be able to play Gears on their consoles. Why bother making a console if it is not your focus? How the hell are games not something you center your strategy around? What are you planning to provide gamers (your consumers) if not that? Services? Services that deliver what? Burritos?!?!?!

All he had to say was: "We know console supplies are limited early on in generations and we want as many Xbox owners as possible to enjoy our games." and no one would have given him shit for it. When he invokes this holier than thou "not what gaming is about" nonsense he is going to get eviscerated and with good reason.

His attitude would be consistent with his actions and more non console warrior people would more easily follow him if he was on an Xbox Games Studios as third party strategy. Apparently he has been able to convince his core followers that Windows PC fulfills that promise of targeting gamers on all devices (strangely their games are neither on macOS nor on Linux... :rolleyes:) and that means he can use this holier than though white knight routine exactly as he is doing.

I do not really dislike the guy in many of his talks, but when he does console warring and either him or his reportee Greenberg feed the console warriors/trolls while pretending to be preventing that (basics of projecting, chastise others for something you are already doing).
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo
In general Microsoft has a very low reputation with PC gamers due to really bad historical decisions. Xbox is pulling out PC gaming as a shield and make up rubbish marketing because they know most Xbox customers don't know anything about PCs. The whole "scale down" mantra would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.


Sony didn't get to where it is overnight, it was through multiple console generations cultivating their staff.
The issue with Microsoft is that they really think buying studios is enough. They didn't account for the lag time before a new studio start to hit its stride.
Erm Sony has done the exact thing Microsoft does. It’s funny how when Sony does something it’s seen as essential but Microsoft does it then it’s bad. I give you an example, Sony closing the wipeout studios in Liverpool vs Microsoft closing a studio. Microsoft bad vs Sony needed it to happen. It’s the same narrative all the time.

the studios Microsoft have bought are not brand new studios, they have been around and have produced games. It’s not like the studios were sitting there 12 months befor Microsoft bought them and were doing nothing. They were making games and the games will come out and possibly be better due to extra financial help.

it was the same with DLC or timed exclusives, when Microsoft had the timed DLC for call of duty it was seen as bad but now Sony has it people on here defend that Sony has more gamers so it’s right. Again timed releases, when Microsoft got tomb raider this gen a year ahead of Sonythis place was unreal slagging the company and Microsoft off, yet when Sony paid to have to tomb raider 2 exclusive to ps rather than be on other consoles that was great also.

p
 
Erm Sony has done the exact thing Microsoft does. It’s funny how when Sony does something it’s seen as essential but Microsoft does it then it’s bad. I give you an example, Sony closing the wipeout studios in Liverpool vs Microsoft closing a studio. Microsoft bad vs Sony needed it to happen. It’s the same narrative all the time.

the studios Microsoft have bought are not brand new studios, they have been around and have produced games. It’s not like the studios were sitting there 12 months befor Microsoft bought them and were doing nothing. They were making games and the games will come out and possibly be better due to extra financial help.

it was the same with DLC or timed exclusives, when Microsoft had the timed DLC for call of duty it was seen as bad but now Sony has it people on here defend that Sony has more gamers so it’s right. Again timed releases, when Microsoft got tomb raider this gen a year ahead of Sonythis place was unreal slagging the company and Microsoft off, yet when Sony paid to have to tomb raider 2 exclusive to ps rather than be on other consoles that was great also.

p
Now you are saying they are doing the same things?
Of course they are doing different things, that's why there is disagreement. Does Exclusives matter or not? Does it matter if you sell consoles? Do you make single player games or chase the GaaS dream? These are differences.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Erm Sony has done the exact thing Microsoft does. It’s funny how when Sony does something it’s seen as essential but Microsoft does it then it’s bad.
Some of that has happened and it is not good, but I am a bit puzzled the same Xbox fans resting that MS has infinite pockets and Sony does not can cope without getting much much angrier when that happens. If you had infinite pockets then how could you close studios? How could you cheapen out and not have all the 16 GB of RAM at full speed?
The same people that sometimes theorise that MS is ready to lose $2-3 billions by heavily subsidising the first 10 million consoles heavily (the ones that sell anyways no matter how high you price them btw, yes those)...

Again timed releases, when Microsoft got tomb raider this gen a year ahead of Sonythis place was unreal slagging the company and Microsoft off, yet when Sony paid to have to tomb raider 2 exclusive to ps rather than be on other consoles that was great

I seem to remember an exec decrying console timed and not timed exclusives not long before or after this timed exclusive was announced (in the same generation they got Insomniac and others making them an exclusive and the shitty “oh just talk to us” infamous parity clause near the beginning of the generation)... was it Phil? Nah... how could have been him :rolleyes:?
 

B_Boss

Member
This seems like another bait console war thread that you guys enjoy. This is why I dont post in the Next Gen Speculation thread. A whole circlejerk obessed with talking about something they hate.

Well that’s unfortunate Lady Burn 😔. I mean excluding any would be drama, what are your genuine thoughts on Phil’s words or thinking? I think they’re definitely relevant enough to create a topic from but surely at least if anyone attacks anything it should be Phil’s words and/or thoughts and not he himself as a person.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
Theres' like 16 pages of arguments and very little context here.

First, if Sony were committed were to bringing new experiences and focused entirely on PS5, then GoT and TLOU II would have been launch titles made exclusively for PS5. That alone would have pretty much killed the launch competition for a lot of people. The new console drops within 5/6 months from all accounts, and the dev kits have been there for years. TLOU II could have done with at least a couple more months in the oven by all accounts and we've yet to make that call on GoT. Instead you'll get a 'remastered' or ported version to buy on PS5. Instead they've hamstrung their AAA studio's with nothing now for at least two years (and that's being conservative). Let's not pretend that both companies are not just basically PR'ing their arses off. In this case TLOU II would have been 'held back' by the base PS4 instead of using all the new tech and benefits of the new console and GoT could have been the new IP to bookend the PS4 lifecycle. It was targeted to the biggest install base, to make bank.

Second, there is a difference between game design and game performance. In terms of design, I get what people are saying on the back of Phils comments. They will have to design the assets and game streaming around the mechanical disk for now. However, UE5 arrives with its advancements releases next year, and most of MS studio's use UE. So they're going to change from these limitations to the more scalable tech of Nanite and Lumens which is more scalable to the hardware. Which will affect game design positively in the same way. It's a strategy based on a tech transition - or AAA might have the engine already, we're not sure.

As for the strategy, there's a reason why so many people requested the DS4 is supported on xCloud and if there will be an app on Playstation for it. DS4 is getting support, if you have a DS4 it's a pretty safe bet you own a Playstation - so there are playstation owners being added to the game pass MAUs and revenue. I also posted this thread in which CDPR went through the process of making Witcher 3 run on the Switch, and didn't have to change assets, geometry or anything major, but no-one was really arsed because it trivialised the issue: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/how-...aker-hardware-witcher-3-eurogamer-df.1552008/

As for CPU, take a look at Total War: Three kingdoms where the CPU's can be scaled up to 500% across hardware, the rest will depend on core contention which prefers a higher clock count in that scenario. Hitman Two also showed how this is scalable



So how does CPU affect performance when you choose to game with the “best” settings? “This will affect things like audio, crowds, cloth simulation, NPC animation, and destruction, just to name the major ones,” De Pascale said. “Crowds will be denser yet at the same time provide more visual variety with bespoke animations and behaviors. For instance, in the Miami level, you'll see many of them waving cloth-simulated flags.”

Though HITMAN 2’s largest level houses as many as 300 NPCs, only a small fraction of the NPCs actually receive a full update every frame. In other words, you might observe a lower frame rate in the animations of some NPCs than those of others depending on how many are onscreen at a time. “This can result in NPCs in the distance being updated at lower frequency and manifests with visible glitches in their animations,” De Pascale said. Having more cores increases the amount of NPCs that receive a full update per frame, with the “base” level updating 40, the “better” level updating 80, and the “best” level updating 120 NPCs.

The leap in SSD from what we are used to, is going to make such a massive difference to general loading, that the smaller more technical achievements of being able to do this much, much quicker it going to be a non issue for quite some time. Is anyone going to be bothered if those 7-10 second walking sections become 2-3 seconds rather than them being removed altogether? Eradication will be nice, but it serves the same purpose as making it non-intrusive or non-abrasive to the player.

I feel so many people in here are more keen to be for and against the latest statement made by their favourite side, instead of clearly showing why it will be an issue or why it won't be an issue, or having a proper discussion about the strategy. I wish threads actually went this way instead of the high level fanboying.
 

Redlight

Member
Seeing these two threads paired up to take a single screenshot like this is quite curious and does represent the point others were making too very concisely:
vFL2LBy.jpg


This is the same guy giving these two interviews... and it is not like they are years apart.
I'm not sure of your point? Acquiring new studios and games exclusive to the MS ecosystem and then allowing them to the played as widely as possible across the MS ecosystem isn't a contradiction.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
First, if Sony were committed were to bringing new experiences and focused entirely on PS5, then GoT and TLOU II would have been launch titles made exclusively for PS5. That alone would have pretty much killed the launch competition for a lot of people. The new console drops within 5/6 months from all accounts, and the dev kits have been there for years. TLOU II could have done with at least a couple more months in the oven by all accounts and we've yet to make that call on GoT. Instead you'll get a 'remastered' or ported version to buy on PS5. Instead they've hamstrung their AAA studio's with nothing now for at least two years (and that's being conservative). Let's not pretend that both companies are not just basically PR'ing their arses off. In this case TLOU II would have been 'held back' by the base PS4 instead of using all the new tech and benefits of the new console and GoT could have been the new IP to bookend the PS4 lifecycle. It was targeted to the biggest install base, to make bank.

I disagree that it is the same exact approach. TLoU II is a title that had been many years in the making and while Sony is committed to support PS5/the new console’s launch with exclusive first party software in its launch window that are focused on the new console only, they are also known to support the existing console throughout its life cycle. It is their first party flexing to do both things: new PS4 focused titles and new PS5 focused titles (now with some titles coming with enhanced BC, not unlike the PS1 to PS2 transition for example). If MS had a mix in the first year of first party XSX exclusive content and cross generation or Xbox One titles I would have no problem with that stance.

Many of the examples you posted about ported games are examples of non parallel development by the same team developing on the main platforms and games being developed and optimised by other teams and all sold separately which is not the case for a new game that you buy once, comes out at the same time on all consoles, and has to target from Xbox One S to XSX.
Also, exceptions like SC aside, I do not tend to look at either mobile platforms nor PC’s as examples of games not being targeted for a minimum common denominator and then scaled up.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I'm not sure of your point? Acquiring new studios and games exclusive to the MS ecosystem and then allowing them to the played as widely as possible across the MS ecosystem isn't a contradiction.

“I do not care on which device you play on, those other people doing exclusive that block you based on the device are evil” meanwhile as long as the device is made by MS or runs MS Windows then it is all ok discriminating based on that and cut off the gamers from other ecosystems... yup, not disingenuous double talk :rolleyes:.
 

Tulipanzo

Member
“I do not care on which device you play on, those other people doing exclusive that block you based on the device are evil” meanwhile as long as the device is made by MS or runs MS Windows then it is all ok discriminating based on that and cut off the gamers from other ecosystems... yup, not disingenuous double talk :rolleyes:.
This is how you can tell his statements are just corporate speak, because by his logic we'd be getting Halo on PS4/Switch.
He's trying to excuse a corporate move, same as the nonsense Jim Ryan spouted over cross-play.
 

Redlight

Member
“I do not care on which device you play on, those other people doing exclusive that block you based on the device are evil” meanwhile as long as the device is made by MS or runs MS Windows then it is all ok discriminating based on that and cut off the gamers from other ecosystems... yup, not disingenuous double talk :rolleyes:.
Oh my.

He's clearly talking about cross-generational support, on the same ecosystem (that's Xbox if you haven't noticed). It will probably even extend beyond that to things like Gamepass on Samsung TV's. At that point Samsung will also be part of the ecosystem. Maybe Sony will be one of the acquisitions? Then you get what you want! :)

"Cut off the gamers from other ecosystems". Sheesh.
 

Tulipanzo

Member
Oh my.

He's clearly talking about cross-generational support, on the same ecosystem (that's Xbox if you haven't noticed). It will probably even extend beyond that to things like Gamepass on Samsung TV's. At that point Samsung will also be part of the ecosystem. Maybe Sony will be one of the acquisitions? Then you get what you want! :)

"Cut off the gamers from other ecosystems". Sheesh.
Sure hope nobody reads the OP...
We want to enable you to play the games you want to play, with the friends you want to play with, on any device [...]
I find it completely counter to what gaming is about to say that part of that is to lock people away from being able to experience those games
 

sonyfifa

Member
will the jump from xbox xclusives to ps5 xclusives be worth it ? we will know in the future.

imagine back to the future on ps5.
 
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