And? That doesn't mean something is retold or revised though..... Thats very much what they intended from the very start. I don't see anything in the second game that is arguing to retell anything, its pretty clear that the first game has many elements in it that were made to be continued after.
In this case it does because in part I Ellie didn't know what she was walking into at that hospital while in part II she acts as if she says she was supposed to die there also implying that Joel knew that's what she wanted.
Ok...neither did Joel....thats the point. That simply argues that she didn't know that information in the first game, but the second game doesn't retell that, it reinforces that she didn't know this at first....... I don't know how that even points to something being revised btw lol
It's Ellie's attitude that's been revised.
Part II takes for granted that Ellie was fine with dying while in part I there's at least hints that Ellie wanted to live on with Joel and it's not clear, at least to me, that contributing to a cure meant more than her new found love for "father" Joel.
Ok....she was lied to in the first game by Joel, he legit lies to her, sooooooo its clear something was hidden from her, omitted in his statement etc. The second game is simply a continuation of that, why would they NEED to fucking even state that in the first game? Its understood when Joel lies, that clearly....well he is lying. Her perspective is that she would have been willing to die for it if she was asked as she states that in the second game, but not having the chance to say that in the first, doesn't mean anything was fucking changed, it means they simply wanted that more so to be the theme in the second game....
Too much happens in the first game to really be out here trying to fucking pretend that was some quick change in the sequel or something.
Yes which I personally found a bit lame from the writers to have Joel lie about what went down rather than telling what the Fireflies tried to pull on him and Ellie.
Even if it's somehow clear to you in part II that she would've chosen to die, regardless of the harm's way the Fireflies where putting Joel in, that's not clear to me in part I. If it was the case that she was fine with dying without ever telling Joel, which could mean she was just using Joel, I seriously doubt that's a character trait of Ellie what the writers intended for her.
If she got Joel to love her as a "new" daughter while at the same time she was ready to leave him at the drop of a hat, that's not a good outlook for Ellie's character.
Ok....so does the first game. What he does to doom the world happens in the first game my friend, we are just going over it MORE in the sequel as they have more time to talk about the actions of the fucking ENDING of the first.
So they are going to "frame" it that way because clearly something happened in THE FIRST GAME to even talk about that. Many of us debated his actions even before the second game was ever announced.
You'd have to make very big charitable assumptions of the Fireflies that they would be able to produce enough vaccines, distribute it all over the world, rather than using it as leverage for power. Something that's hard to do with the way they're portrayed in part I.
IMO part II weakens the Joel doomed the world argument since we see humans communities survive well enough to flourish, some can even afford to go to large scale territory wars without worrying about hordes of clickers/zombies.
The same is done in part 2, sorry but no one banned you from having a open interpretation of his actions in the second game or something. He is simply paying for the consequences of those actions. It doesn't change that he did what he did in part 1, you are allowed to view that as just if you want bud, the sequel doesn't magically take that view point away from you like a lobotomy or something. You are free to think he was just and free to have a open view on the mater.....doesn't change his actions and doesn't change that someone would come looking for him.
If you could come on here months after the game's release and still share a view on his actions, you literally are proving that its very much open for you to view it differently. No one is locking you out of having a different view.
Not sure what you're arguing here, nowhere did I say that my view was being suppressed or that Joel's past shouldn't come back to bite him.
You putting all the blame on Joel while letting the Fireflies completely off the hook. You can't deny they gravely mishandled the situation.
And what did Joel do in part I? It was looking like the Fireflies were marching him out without his gear in a dangerous Salt Lake City area. He rescued Ellie from an unethical death she didn't know was looming. Ellie and Joel made plans for a future so Joel has reason to think Ellie wouldn't just want to die without at least saying good-bye first.