Horatius
Member
yes thank you, nailed it, obsidian was at fault for all those half-cooked wastes of my timeWho made:
- Tyranny
- Pillars of Eternity
- Pillars of Eternity 2
- The Outer Worlds
- Grounded
yes thank you, nailed it, obsidian was at fault for all those half-cooked wastes of my timeWho made:
- Tyranny
- Pillars of Eternity
- Pillars of Eternity 2
- The Outer Worlds
- Grounded
Bad management at an xbox first party studio? you don't say lol. Most of the studios they bought were smaller and struggling in some form so this is no shock, this one though was supposed to be one of the good ones wasn't it?This honestly reeks of bad mannagement, if true.
Avowed was a dream project for many Obsidian employees. If they get shifted around or demoted, most employees would leave in that situation. Creative pursuit > money in game development industry.
I will actually try to answer this one seriously, especially because you clearly didn’t want it to be answered.
1) It helped with my irrational fear of flying and as someone who loves traveling to all parts of the world, this is the big one.
2) I crashed into the house I am living in. I also crashed into mount Fiji, that Jesus statue in Rio as well as other famous landmarks.
3) It gave me a chance to visit places I will never get to visit.
4) It taught me the basics of how airplanes work.
5) it left me in awe, reminding me how beautiful this planet is. Of course, I can get the same feeling by watching one of those Attenborough docs, but here I choose my own content.
6) Soon I will be able to get that Top Gun experience and it is going to be glorious.
7) It calms me down better than anything after a long, stressful day at work.
Interesting that you've taken offense to the condemnation of Microsoft in this thread rather than the various sustained attempts of character assassination on Chris Avellone throughout.
People need to remember that sometimes the higher ups have to step in because people too close to the project just aren't willing to do what it takes to get things going. MS isn't too hands on or hands off they are just not good at management. Look how many games last gen were announced and cancelled both 1st party and exclusives that they outsourced, other games were announced and took 5 years of development hell only to be panned by critics and players alike. There is a reason MS went through all of last gen without creating a new first party hit. They haven't come up with anything new that caught on in the AAA space since Forza Horizon on the 360.Damned if you do damned if you dont.
If MS meddles with Obsidian people are up in arms.
If MS doesnt meddle with Obsidian people are up in arms.
This is true, but is also undeniable he has been very salty since his departure, and that was before Obsidian got aquired by MS. For me, Obsidian is Obsidian, i don't really care if they switch people around, they always had problems with organization, deadlines etc.Interesting that you've taken offense to the condemnation of Microsoft in this thread rather than the various sustained attempts of character assassination on Chris Avellone throughout.
Miss me with that bullshit.yes thank you, nailed it, obsidian was at fault for all those half-cooked wastes of my time
Its nothing more than that Chris Parker-Carrie Patel theory from rpg codex. No actual project lead has left Obsidian. But it gives some fodder to people like Defrop for console warring.so...5 pages in...any proof of this outside of his messages?
No evidence at all?
That was a unfortunate situation and I did forget that it happened though he's not the only one who has already went back to work for SonyJesus
Murray lost his brother. And he was design director at The Initiative with plenty of responsibilities.
So he quit and took lesser role at Insomniac (Principal Designer) so he can get his life back on track. It's pretty much obvious when you were reading his twitter at the time of his departure.
His departure was for sure sudden, because he was in dev diary in december and left studio in January
But nope. Some people need to have tinfoil hats.
Example?That was a unfortunate situation and I did forget that it happened though he's not the only one who has already went back to work for Sony
What was "expected" of Obsidian?Expected, in the sense I believe many of the private studios that sold themselves to MS were doing it purely for the cash.
How many went from a Sony studio to Xbox maybe 7 - 8? I know of 3 that are back working for PS and 1 elsewhereExample?
Because i can show you many more devs who went from Sony's first party to Microsoft's then otherwise.
Also, Naughty Dog is notorious for having exoduses after bonus paychecks for every project. After Uncharted 4 14 out of 20 level designers left studio. And nobody is making big deal about that.
I counted 10 only in The Initiative that are still there. Many more switched to inXile, ZeniMax Online and even Obsidian or Double Fine. I mean, it's obvious, since all of them are packed in the same area.How many went from a Sony studio to Xbox maybe 7 - 8? I know of 4 that are back working for PS
Do tell me which senior Obsidian dev quit or was removed?
Swing and miss there fella.
The whole point was the hypocrisy. Especially around unproven rumours.
so...5 pages in...any proof of this outside of his messages?
No evidence at all?
I also counted from The Initiative. 3 devs gone back to Sony before the The Initiative's 1st game ships isn't too alarming but it still makes you wonderI counted 10 only in The Initiative that are still there. Many more switched to inXile, ZeniMax Online and even Obsidian or Double Fine. I mean, it's obvious, since all of them are packed in the same area.
So yeah. No exodus. Just natural moving up and down.
People are still stuck up on KOTOR2 and Fallout New Vegas. Any day now we'll get New Vegas 2. Not hating on Obsidian they still make fairly good games but I think people are getting a bit too excited.Not sure why people are expecting such great things from Obsidian, PoEs were pretty meh and TOW was painfully mediocre and bland. The golden days of KotOR 2 have long since passed, no different than what happened with Bioware (tho that was a much worse fall). Not to say Avowed can't turn out to be a good game but I don't see why you'd assume it. I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised but I don't expect it.
So out of the devs who left PS (8 - 10) to go work for Xbox, 3 came back to PS and 2 devs left Xbox to work for PS. It's just interesting to see how these guys move from one studio to competing studiosSo guys, I did a little bit of research to verify these claims, as best as I could. Of course, I couldn't find everything, but from what little I found, I did notice that there was a bit of an exodus from March to June 2021. Several leads left Obsidian.
This is not uncommon when big projects finish, but not common when multiple big projects are mid-development (OW2, Josh's new game, and, of course, Avowed). I think this corroborates what Chris said (despite the grudge he may hold against Obsidian). I hope these problems, if true, do not affect the end-product, and we all get a good, polished game to play in the end.
cc:
- Jorge Salgado, the Lead Area Designer, left Obsidian in May 2021 and joined High Moon Studios.
- Lucien Soulban, the Lead Narrative Designer, left Obsidian in April 2021.
- Justin E. Bell, the Studio Audio Director, left Obsidian in June 2021 to join PlayStation Studios.
- Doug Avery, Senior Quality Assurance Analyst, left Obsidian in April 2021.
- Renzo G. Heredia, Sound Designer and Senior Audio QA Analyst, left Obsidian in Oct. 2020 to join Sony Santa Monica
- KyungKun Ko, Senior Network Engineer, left Obsidian in March 2021.
So out of the devs who left PS (8 - 10) to go work for Xbox, 3 came back to PS and 2 devs left Xbox to work for PS. It's just interesting to see how these guys move from one studio to competing studios
Swing and miss there fella.
The whole point was the hypocrisy. Especially around unproven rumours.
This is true, but is also undeniable he has been very salty since his departure, and that was before Obsidian got aquired by MS. For me, Obsidian is Obsidian, i don't really care if they switch people around, they always had problems with organization, deadlines etc.
It's kind of weird to see people immediately jumping to blame MS for those problems or that he is a sign of something really bad going on. LEt's just wait for the game and that's it, no reason to be all "concerned" about something many here wouldn't buy in the 1st place. Kind like when xbox fanboys get all "concerned" about what's going on at ND.
So guys, I did a little bit of research to verify these claims, as best as I could. Of course, I couldn't find everything, but from what little I found, I did notice that there was a bit of an exodus from March to June 2021. Several leads left Obsidian.
This is not uncommon when big projects finish, but not common when multiple big projects are mid-development (OW2, Josh's new game, and, of course, Avowed). I think this corroborates what Chris said (despite the grudge he may hold against Obsidian). I hope these problems, if true, do not affect the end-product, and we all get a good, polished game to play in the end.
cc:
- Jorge Salgado, the Lead Area Designer, left Obsidian in May 2021 and joined High Moon Studios.
- Lucien Soulban, the Lead Narrative Designer, left Obsidian in April 2021.
- Justin E. Bell, the Studio Audio Director, left Obsidian in June 2021 to join PlayStation Studios.
- Doug Avery, Senior Quality Assurance Analyst, left Obsidian in April 2021.
- Renzo G. Heredia, Sound Designer and Senior Audio QA Analyst, left Obsidian in Oct. 2020 to join Sony Santa Monica
- KyungKun Ko, Senior Network Engineer, left Obsidian in March 2021.
How many of these people were working on Avowed?
Woe is me!!!
A QA Analyst left the studio....Obsidian is doomed, doomed I tell you!
jk. I respect all ya'll QA guys, I know some of you are lurking here.
The only big name on that list is Jorge Salgado. My concern increased from 0 to 1 out of 10.So guys, I did a little bit of research to verify these claims, as best as I could. Of course, I couldn't find everything, but from what little I found, I did notice that there was a bit of an exodus from March to June 2021. Several leads left Obsidian.
This is not uncommon when big projects finish, but not common when multiple big projects are mid-development (OW2, Josh's new game, and, of course, Avowed). I think this corroborates what Chris said (despite the grudge he may hold against Obsidian). I hope these problems, if true, do not affect the end-product, and we all get a good, polished game to play in the end.
cc:
- Jorge Salgado, the Lead Area Designer, left Obsidian in May 2021 and joined High Moon Studios.
- Lucien Soulban, the Lead Narrative Designer, left Obsidian in April 2021.
- Justin E. Bell, the Studio Audio Director, left Obsidian in June 2021 to join PlayStation Studios.
- Doug Avery, Senior Quality Assurance Analyst, left Obsidian in April 2021.
- Renzo G. Heredia, Sound Designer and Senior Audio QA Analyst, left Obsidian in Oct. 2020 to join Sony Santa Monica
- KyungKun Ko, Senior Network Engineer, left Obsidian in March 2021.
Yeah. Lead Narrative Designer who was at the studio for 1 year. I'm sure he was crucial to whole projectbig ones are lead narrative director, lead area designer, studio audio director.
Those are the red flags to me. Especially on two titles that will have multiple dialogue options in the game.
big ones are lead narrative director, lead area designer, studio audio director.
Those are the red flags to me. Especially on two titles that will have multiple dialogue options in the game.
The only big name on that list is Jorge Salgado. My concern increased from 0 to 1 out of 10.
I meant for Avowed, afaik he didn't work on the game. Generally speaking though, Justin Bell was big in Obsidian, yes. A lot of Obsidian fans are sad that he left.Dude Justin E. Bell literally worked for Obsidian for over 11 years?
Someone pointed out Justins work was finished, but what I dont understand is justin was with Obsidian for 11 years?
And that hypocrisy doesn't apply to things being said about Avellone throughout this thread because... Reasons I guess?
If you want to talk about what era does then character assassination is top of their list, especially when it involves using unproven accusations to discredit them, bonus points for when you can throw something like sexual harassment into the ring.
But yes, poor Microsoft, because being critical of companies is something that is definitely exclusive to resetera, we don't do that here.
But this isnt Microsofts doing.
MS hasnt interfered with Obsidian.
With or without MS money we would be at this exact spot.
Its Obsidian being Obsidian especially considering Chris really hates Obsidian management it makes sense he would be bitching about them.
Yeah I mean this should be verifiable. Have people joined and left or not? If Chris was lying that would be a pretty stupid thing to lie about.so...5 pages in...any proof of this outside of his messages?
No evidence at all?
I agree. If you own a studio (whether you are MS, Sony, Nintendo, Ubi, CDPR, EA, Activision) you are responsible for the good and bad that comes with it. If EA got credit to support Respawn through Star Wars Fallen Order, they also got the (well-deserved) flak for ruining Bioware.I find this a weird perspective, wanting to absolve the parent of failings in a subsidiary.
MS has owned Obsidian for 3 years and manage it under the umbrella of Xbox Game Studios, MS didn’t just give them a pile of cash and tell them to do whatever they want.
Feargus Urquhart reports to, and is accountable to, Matt Booty. Microsoft might not “interfere” with day to day decision making, especially creative ones, but those decisions will be made within a set of accountabilities set by Microsoft. They will certainly be approving projects and budgets, demanding and reviewing progress against plans, etc.
If a subsidiary of Xbox Games Studios has management failings or fails to deliver on projects then this is the “doing“ of Microsoft and Xbox. It’s their accountability and their oversight.
This is equally true of PlayStation Studios. Management failings and failure to deliver at Evolution, for example, we’re absolutely the “doing” of Sony and PlayStation.
Already done the hardwork. https://www.neogaf.com/threads/rumo...le-lead-devs-designers.1617263/post-264494107Yeah I mean this should be verifiable. Have people joined and left or not? If Chris was lying that would be a pretty stupid thing to lie about.
For all we know, all of them were working on Avowed.How many of these people were working on Avowed?
Woe is me!!!
A QA Analyst left the studio....Obsidian is doomed, doomed I tell you!
jk. I respect all ya'll QA guys, I know some of you are lurking here.
It hurts my soul that Justin Bell left. He made such great music.So guys, I did a little bit of research to verify these claims, as best as I could. Of course, I couldn't find everything, but from what little I found, I did notice that there was a bit of an exodus from March to June 2021. Several leads left Obsidian.
This is not uncommon when big projects finish, but not common when multiple big projects are mid-development (OW2, Josh's new game, and, of course, Avowed). I think this corroborates what Chris said (despite the grudge he may hold against Obsidian). I hope these problems, if true, do not affect the end-product, and we all get a good, polished game to play in the end.
cc:
- Jorge Salgado, the Lead Area Designer, left Obsidian in May 2021 and joined High Moon Studios.
- Lucien Soulban, the Lead Narrative Designer, left Obsidian in April 2021.
- Justin E. Bell, the Studio Audio Director, left Obsidian in June 2021 to join PlayStation Studios.
- Doug Avery, Senior Quality Assurance Analyst, left Obsidian in April 2021.
- Renzo G. Heredia, Sound Designer and Senior Audio QA Analyst, left Obsidian in Oct. 2020 to join Sony Santa Monica
- KyungKun Ko, Senior Network Engineer, left Obsidian in March 2021.
He is excellent! Happy for him though as his current position is well-deserved and a big career move.It hurts my soul that Justin Bell left. He made such great music.
Exactly, I don't think Chris is even mentioning the project itself. Somebody suggested working there and he said it's not a good sign that people are leaving. This may be more about the workplace environment not being good rather than the project being in development hell.For all we know, all of them were working on Avowed.
The important part is that Chris said key people left and that there are management issues. We disregarded Chris because of his personal grudge. Now we can see that a bunch of key people indeed left (just a few months ago, in fact), which corroborates what Chris was saying. There indeed could be problems with the studio and Avowed (as we have some evidence of that). Or that could be no problem at all (but we don't have any evidence for it yet).
Yes, all three. Soulban was hired specifically for Avowed, Jorge Salgado was confirmed Lead Area Designer on the game, and Justin Bell was naturally working on it (as with every other Obsidian title).Were they working on Avowed?
Microsoft, the richest company in the world, is a total failure and can't get anything right.
Xbox just released the most technically advanced game on console scoring at MC 90+ epic fail. Just released high-scoring universally acclaimed and loved Pyschonauts 2 again BIG fail. FH5 coming soon and will probably be the highest scoring game of this year just looks like shit, right. Then there's Game Pass with over 10 times the number of subs of PSNow yet another MS fail.
Good points. But we still don't know if it is true.20+ years in the industry. Yes, I do know. And yes it does matter. A lot. Particularly if it's early.
So guys, I did a little bit of research to verify these claims, as best as I could. Of course, I couldn't find everything, but from what little I found, I did notice that there was a bit of an exodus from March to June 2021. Several leads left Obsidian.
This is not uncommon when big projects finish, but not common when multiple big projects are mid-development (OW2, Josh's new game, and, of course, Avowed). I think this corroborates what Chris said (despite the grudge he may hold against Obsidian). I hope these problems, if true, do not affect the end-product, and we all get a good, polished game to play in the end.
cc:
- Jorge Salgado, the Lead Area Designer, left Obsidian in May 2021 and joined High Moon Studios.
- Lucien Soulban, the Lead Narrative Designer, left Obsidian in April 2021.
- Justin E. Bell, the Studio Audio Director, left Obsidian in June 2021 to join PlayStation Studios.
- Doug Avery, Senior Quality Assurance Analyst, left Obsidian in April 2021.
- Renzo G. Heredia, Sound Designer and Senior Audio QA Analyst, left Obsidian in Oct. 2020 to join Sony Santa Monica
- KyungKun Ko, Senior Network Engineer, left Obsidian in March 2021.
Excellent work. Was looking for some confirmation on who left. That said Jorge Salgado looks to be the only one who will raise some concerns, but the project itself is in early stages. Lucien Soulban only worked for a year, so his work was probably contractual. As for Justin E. Bell, Obsidian has another audio director on Avowed since 2020. He seems to have worked as sound designer on Prey (2006) and Borderlands 3.So guys, I did a little bit of research to verify these claims, as best as I could. Of course, I couldn't find everything, but from what little I found, I did notice that there was a bit of an exodus from March to June 2021. Several leads left Obsidian.
This is not uncommon when big projects finish, but not common when multiple big projects are mid-development (OW2, Josh's new game, and, of course, Avowed). I think this corroborates what Chris said (despite the grudge he may hold against Obsidian). I hope these problems, if true, do not affect the end-product, and we all get a good, polished game to play in the end.
cc:
- Jorge Salgado, the Lead Area Designer, left Obsidian in May 2021 and joined High Moon Studios.
- Lucien Soulban, the Lead Narrative Designer, left Obsidian in April 2021.
- Justin E. Bell, the Studio Audio Director, left Obsidian in June 2021 to join PlayStation Studios.
- Doug Avery, Senior Quality Assurance Analyst, left Obsidian in April 2021.
- Renzo G. Heredia, Sound Designer and Senior Audio QA Analyst, left Obsidian in Oct. 2020 to join Sony Santa Monica
- KyungKun Ko, Senior Network Engineer, left Obsidian in March 2021.
They finished wrapping up The Outer Worlds DLC content this march, so that may be a reason.This is not uncommon when big projects finish, but not common when multiple big projects are mid-development (OW2, Josh's new game, and, of course, Avowed).
Lucien Soulban left Obsidian for a no-name studio in his home town, basically right after remote work stopped and office work began. It looks like an entirely personal decision.Excellent work. Was looking for some confirmation on who left. That said Jorge Salgado looks to be the only one who will raise some concerns, but the project itself is in early stages. Lucien Soulban only worked for a year, so his work was probably contractual. As for Justin E. Bell, Obsidian has another audio director on Avowed since 2020. He seems to have worked as sound designer on Prey (2006) and Borderlands 3.
The rest don't seem to be much of concern.
They finished wrapping up The Outer Worlds DLC content this march, so that may be a reason.
More then likely not, they said Avowed is farther in development then we think wouldn't be surprised if it's a early 23 gameHope it is not true. Looked like a promising game I was looking forward to.
Believe it or not, you fly aeroplanes...So what do you do in flight sim?