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VANQUISH |OT| Bullet Ballet performed by the London Awesome orchestra

Yurt

il capo silenzioso
worldrevolution said:
Haha, I'll be honest it's that last challenge thing that gets me. I followed this game waaaaay back when it first released and I remember everyone here being like UGH that last challenge and I kind of have OCD when it comes to completing that stuff. There were definitely people here throwing like 20 hours at that challenge. Demon's/Dark Souls are easy compared to that, I platted Demon's and will plat Dark too. =P

Also, again, with Bayonetta still on the shelf..

It's perfect that you mentioned Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, because with repetition, you'll learn a lot about the last challenge. The randomness factor is less in the challenges so you can follow a certain pattern every time and you'll succeeded eventually.
 

B-Genius

Unconfirmed Member
Aaron said:
Why would they? The game presented a self contained and futuristic world that was internally consistent, apart from the magic ghost lasers.

Like I said, I was behind cover because I had used up my slowdown and didn't want to take damage. The sword though the wall I might have been a bit hurt, hard to tell without a life bar, but big cannon blast that passed through a truck and a section of wall to hit me I definitely wasn't damaged. I had been there for a while, which yeah I shouldn't do, but I was trying to sort out my weapon slots and sometimes that could take a bit.
I get the whole "self contained world" thing, but my point is that if your imagination can stretch that far, why can't it stretch to an idea like... I dunno, the beam 'fries' the inside of your suit, or something? It's not often in games that you get beams that literally eat through everything (including the terrain) and leave a mark to prove it to you.

Sorry, this is a pretty tangent-ey argument. The thing is, it's a big fuck-off laser, and I certainly wouldn't feel safe behind a 3ft wall.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Yurt said:
It's perfect that you mentioned Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, because with repetition, you'll learn a lot about the last challenge. The randomness factor is less in the challenges so you can follow a certain pattern every time and you'll succeeded eventually.

True, I guess at that price it doesn't hurt to throw it on the pile.
 
PlatinumGamesJP said:
Thank you, sir. I'm still here, and I think we've got some fantastic, wonderful stuff in the pipe. But please, don't heap too much credit on me. I'm in a room with a ton of incredibly smart, talented people who work as hard, if not harder, than I. I'm just as much in awe of our team as anyone else.

Hopefully that means some Vanquish 2 and Bayonetta 2. :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
 

Aaron

Member
B-Genius said:
Sorry, this is a pretty tangent-ey argument. The thing is, it's a big fuck-off laser, and I certainly wouldn't feel safe behind a 3ft wall.
Yeah I want to stop talking about this, but my problem wasn't with the big powerful laser or even if it's a one hit kill, it's that it destroys some cover and doesn't destroy other cover. I find this sort of inconsistency very annoying.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
PlatinumGamesJP said:
Totally. I learned so much from how people reacted to the ending. There are/were myriad reasons why it isn't more obvious, but ultimately, I would have loved it if things would have cut through a bit more clearly. Candide works as a novella because it clobbers you with satire. So, in that regard, my sword to fall on.

That being said, if Burns and Sam engaged in some existential conversation on the merits of optimism, a la Candide, you guys would have burned me at the stake. No matter how funny it would have been to hear Steve Blum and Gideon Emery have that conversation in those voices.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Probably my biggest detractor from finding a deeper meaning out of Vanquish (other than having read few things by Voltaire, so even if Sam's suit had a giant sign saying CANDIDE i wouldn't have picked the reference) was the extreme silliness of its characters and overall presentation. I felt like the i was being told "this is not a serious game" so i just switched that side of my brain off.

Other than that, while i would kill for sequels for both Bayonetta and Vanquish, my opnion's i'd rather see you guys keep creating stuff, since you've been so good at it. Or, create a Bayo-Vanquish crossover game, and i'll ship you my skeleton.
 

JPKellams

Member
zkylon said:
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Probably my biggest detractor from finding a deeper meaning out of Vanquish (other than having read few things by Voltaire, so even if Sam's suit had a giant sign saying CANDIDE i wouldn't have picked the reference) was the extreme silliness of its characters and overall presentation. I felt like the i was being told "this is not a serious game" so i just switched that side of my brain off.

Other than that, while i would kill for sequels for both Bayonetta and Vanquish, my opnion's i'd rather see you guys keep creating stuff, since you've been so good at it. Or, create a Bayo-Vanquish crossover game, and i'll ship you my skeleton.

Just to amuse myself, extremely silly would be this:

BURNS: Sam, that turret over there... Sure all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds, but all our worlds are f%&ed if we don't take it out right now!

SAM: I'm not sure I share your optimism that taking out that turret will bring about a greater happiness, but we must cultivate our garden! A garden free of Russian machine gun turrets.

(I'll try harder next time.)
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
I think we've got some fantastic, wonderful stuff in the pipe.

Make more announcements soon give me something to get excited about. lol

Can't wait for more goodness from you guys. If you guys didn't exist I'd probably be alot less interested in new games.

Will be there day 1 for Anarchy Reigns and more than likely all your future titles. Keep doing great work PG.
 

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
PlatinumGamesJP said:
You guys are freaking me out. I just watched a National Geo documentary on the organ trade, so I have a general idea of how many kidneys it would take.

I have about 40 spare kidneys stored away for this occasion. Would that be sufficient or shall I gather more?
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
I really need to replay this. I beat it, loved it, and just haven't gone back to it for some reason. I think I'll have more fun on a replay since I know how to properly make use of the suit and weapons.
 

Curufinwe

Member
RoboPlato said:
I really need to replay this. I beat it, loved it, and just haven't gone back to it for some reason. I think I'll have more fun on a replay since I know how to properly make use of the suit and weapons.

I enjoyed it more and died less playing on Hard than my first playthru on Normal.
 

Trojan X

Banned
Still trying to complete Vanquish on God Mode and it's one of the most difficult things I tried to do this year. Have you guys tried to get up that hill (I dubbed it, "Hamburger Hill")? It's so damn difficult I believe I have died 91 times before I actually made it up there. The hill alone takes some serious skills and facing up 3 of those scorpion like robots was one of the most difficult task ever! Mind you, my friend and I did tell Platinum Games directly (YES, DIRECTLY) that how they hindered the suit for the God hard difficulty was completely unfair in terms of balancing, and you know what? They agreed with us in realisation. Hopefully V2 will be more balanced, thus leaving you to feel that if you fail on a stage it's due to your weakness and not due to the game skanting you.

It's funny... I got Gears of Wars 1, 2 and 3. Completed Gears 3 on the second day on Hardcore mode. Now playing Insane mode. Been playing Horde and multiplayer mode and you know what...? I can honestly now say that in terms of playability, Vanquish is definitely much better than Gears 1, 2 and 3! There's so much more skills, flexibility and options it's uncanny.

Come on Platinum, you got the best over shoulder shoot'em in the bag in 2012! Give us the REAL Vanquish that we should be playing and take the crown and show all other games how it's really done! Don't hinder yourself by not giving us what we want and then some! Come on SEGA, support them more strongly (mind you, the Vanquish trailer was awesome so no fault on your part for once)!
 
Trojan X said:
Still trying to complete Vanquish on God Mode and it's one of the most difficult things I tried to do this year. Have you guys tried to get up that hill (I dubbed it, "Hamburger Hill")? It's so damn difficult I believe I have died 91 times before I actually made it up there. The hill alone takes some serious skills and facing up 3 of those scorpion like robots was one of the most difficult task ever! Mind you, my friend and I did tell Platinum Games directly (YES, DIRECTLY) that how they hindered the suit for the God hard difficulty was completely unfair in terms of balancing, and you know what? They agreed with us in realisation. Hopefully V2 will be more balanced, thus leaving you to feel that if you fail on a stage it's due to your weakness and not due to the game skanting you.
Vanquish is a highly skill based game, and God Hard difficulty is balanced in the game's favor. However, you seem to be equating difficulty above a level that you cannot handle with unfairness, which is illogical. If you fail in Vanquish it's still your skill level holding you back. You're complaining that God Hard is too difficult, equating that difficulty with unfairness because you cannot handle it, then asking the devs to make it easier for your sake. It would be far simpler for you to play on the easier difficulty modes that are provided for you.

I'd like to see one of the last development bastions of hardcore gaming not fold in to the same 'make it easy for me' BS.
 

Nickiepoo

Member
PlatinumGamesJP said:
1 year anniversary of the game today! Thanks for all the support guys.

Vanq and Bayo made themselves instant classics in my eyes, you guys deserve all the support you get.

I'm actually having a Vanq relapse at the moment and can't wait to see what you guys come up with next.
 

Trojan X

Banned
mjemirzian said:
Vanquish is a highly skill based game, and God Hard difficulty is balanced in the game's favor. However, you seem to be equating difficulty above a level that you cannot handle with unfairness, which is illogical. If you fail in Vanquish it's still your skill level holding you back. You're complaining that God Hard is too difficult, equating that difficulty with unfairness because you cannot handle it, then asking the devs to make it easier for your sake. It would be far simpler for you to play on the easier difficulty modes that are provided for you.

I'd like to see one of the last development bastions of hardcore gaming not fold in to the same 'make it easy for me' BS.


Sorry, I disagree with what you said and what I've described was not BS to which has made me detest your post. When we talked with Platinum it was something that was discussed and not "ordered". In fact, these issues were recognised before my friend and I even said anything to Platinum, which is good.

I will do my best to explain why the game is "unfair" in God Hard mode for your complete understanding, and so you won't go off and accuse me of thinking that I'm part of the same crowd that want great games like these to be bastard to easier play:

The problem that makes the game "unfair" in God Hard mode solely lies with the "Suit"; the difficulty of the player's enemies are near-perfect in settings to which they really do test your skills to its fullest. When you use the Suit in all difficulty settings, you can perform "Boast" and "Invincible Dodging" (similar Bayonetta). When you receive a dangerous hit, your suit energy will take 10 second to deplete before taking another 10 seconds to go into recovery/cooling mode in Normal and Hard mode. When your suit goes into "cooling mode", your abilities to perform Invincible Dodging and Boasting are removed though they still will be they will still be active during your 10 seconds of depletion. Of course, it is those 10 seconds that would have to be used wisely to negate yourself out of any sticky situation or take advantage of it. However, in God Hard mode, instead of taking 10 seconds for the Suit's Energy to deplete, it will actually take 2 seconds instead. Combined this change with the Suit with all the enemies increased in numbers, accuracy, endurance and power-level makes you a sitting-duck when you have to deal with juggernauts enemies such as the 3 scorpion bosses that you have to fight the same time (these bosses will kill off your troopers within seconds before they focus all efforts on you). Even if you have changed your playing style (of course you have to change) to consider the Suit change, your chances are extremely thin when you are dealing with bosses/enemies, such as those Scorpions because they will force you to move out of your changed playing style. If the Invincibility dodging stayed, "Invincible", even during Suit recovery mode then that would be fine as it's an important and skilled-based (requires timing) arsenal to be used in the game. However, the game's non-communication of not having invincibility dodging during Suit recovery mode (it doesn't makes sense to have that ability removed anyway) combine with the 2 seconds energy drop makes God Hard mode, "unfair".

Those are the only problems with God Hard mode; it is not the enemy's difficulty, it's the changes with the Suit's attribute that screws-up the game balancing.

I am sure you already know this but just as a statement: please remember that in regards to gameplay, just because a game's development is completed it doesn't mean that it's perfect in the eyes of the developers (which is why Beta and Local play testing exists). At least when you play games such as God Hand, Bayonetta, Psyvariar, and Virtua Fighter (whether you play against the CPU or an expert that can demolish you), and you lose in those game, at least you can truly turn around and say, "Oh boy, that's fault. I can see where my weakness lies so I just have to get better by thinking faster, using this strategy, etc... ", and not fault the game itself. In Vanquish, other than using different strategies to deal with your opponents in God Hard mode, the changes in the suit's restriction really hinders the enjoyment and breaks the "chess-factor" in the game. ("Chess-factor" example - first you can play Chess normally, but what happens when an expert opponent says that your Queen and Bishops are now only restricted to move by two squares on the board, is that fair? No, especially when you as the player has been training hard to understand the factors in the game, the attributes of your pieces, and ways to improve your strategies and skills to become a powerful player).

I hope you understand now, it is not about "ease" it is about "balancing". Other than that, Vanquish is still an incredible game so I cannot wait for Vanquish 2.
 

conman

Member
Trojan X said:
I hope you understand now, it is not about "ease" it is about "balancing".
But "balancing" is exactly what gets changed in any game where you adjust the difficulty slider. Nothing you've described sounds "unfair," just hard, er, god hard.
 
B-Genius said:
I will never forget the first time I played the demo of Vanquish; the Argus fight. When it first does its huge chest charge beam attack, my ladyfriend and I were going spare. Rocketing around the arena, trying not to get caught up in that insane robo-anime inspired blast... I've never seen anything like it while feeling so in-control and badass in a game.
The demo was totally rad. I actually had to stop replaying it because I didn't want to waste my time on the demo instead of the game. It was *that* good.
 

Fantasmo

Member
Trojan X said:
I hope you understand now, it is not about "ease" it is about "balancing". Other than that, Vanquish is still an incredible game so I cannot wait for Vanquish 2.

I agree with all of your post except this. I would instead have said:

it is not about "ease" it is about "changing the rules which throws off proper balance"

If that's what you meant, I totally agree. For the record I haven't played God Hard but knowing that, I definitely won't.

Still an amazing game however, I'm in the last act now and have enjoyed it so much! A bit more graphic variety, longer Zero G area, and a lot more easy sections to build up your skills using the suit abilities would go a long way for me. I don't even care if a few sections feel like cut and paste, a bunch of easy sections would be really good practice and a much needed reflexes break for the tougher areas.

But honestly, I'd rather PG make another God Hand, which I know is impossible because Mikami is only going to make 1 or 2 more games, doesn't directly work for PG, and Capcom owns the IP. Pretty disappointed about that, but not too worried about PG making a great game. A guy can dream though, lol.

Anyway, final note of this post before I try to finish the game and little message to you PlatinumGamesJP... I really love the old Clover / new Platinum's games, you guys know what gaming is about. Tight quality fun gameplay!
 

Trojan X

Banned
junkster said:
I agree with all of your post except this. I would instead have said:

it is not about "ease" it is about "changing the rules which throws off proper balance"

If that's what you meant, I totally agree. For the record I haven't played God Hard but knowing that, I definitely won't.


That's exactly what I meant. Thanks for the input.



conman said:
But "balancing" is exactly what gets changed in any game where you adjust the difficulty slider. Nothing you've described sounds "unfair," just hard, er, god hard.

No dude. If you consider the Chess-Factor example and what I said carefully, then that's not called "God Hard", that's called "Screwing the Player". :p
 
Khal_B said:
Would do really well on Steam I think. And well, playing this game on capable rig would be...a sight to behold.

Yeah, every time this thread gets bumped, I go in hoping it's because someone is on their knees, chanting and speaking in tongues, with arms raised and tears in their eyes because they have a link to an announcement of a PC version.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
playoverwork said:
Yeah, every time this thread gets bumped, I go in hoping it's because someone is on their knees, chanting and speaking in tongues, with arms raised and tears in their eyes because they have a link to an announcement of a PC version.
lol. This and Bayonetta on PC would cause me to die from forgetting to eat.
 
Trojan X said:
I hope you understand now, it is not about "ease" it is about "balancing". Other than that, Vanquish is still an incredible game so I cannot wait for Vanquish 2.
You're using weasel words to hide the fact that you are calling for God Hard mode to be easier. Now if you'd just come out and admit you want it to be easier, there wouldn't be a problem. Instead you're making the false assertion that because someone lack the skill to complete a skill based challenge, that it is unfair. Nobody with a clue is fooled. Just stick to the easier difficulties that are designed for you.
 
yo_soy_el_topo said:
While playing it we did discover something pretty useful. An invincible dodging glitch. You do this by rolling/boosting away and toward to adjacent objects so you are in that blur motion dodge.

Nothing personal, but I think this sums up some of the incomprehension I've seen towards Vanquish. Someone discovers a higher level play mechanic and immediately assumes it's some kind of bug or wasn't intentional just because Gears of War doesn't have anything like it. Godspeed Platinum Games and keep on keeping on in these dark times.
 
I guess, I am top 10 on every challenge on ps3/360 (except 6) though and have played more of this game than fucking anything in the past few years.

And fuck gears of war.

Your comment hurt me man.

Replace glitch with technique. Bad semantics yes, gets point across though. Next time I'll be more careful with my video game lingo cause, no offense, there is a lot of people like you out there I forget about.
 

Trojan X

Banned
mjemirzian said:
You're using weasel words to hide the fact that you are calling for God Hard mode to be easier. Now if you'd just come out and admit you want it to be easier, there wouldn't be a problem. Instead you're making the false assertion that because someone lack the skill to complete a skill based challenge, that it is unfair. Nobody with a clue is fooled. Just stick to the easier difficulties that are designed for you.


Weasel words? Funny how you've ignored what I've said about the Platinum agreement and the fact they've acknowledged the issue prior discussion. Believe it or not, the Vanquish we are playing is NOT the Vanquish that was originally intended/vision by Platinum but maybe you won't acknowledge that too.

I don't think you really understood what I was saying. I'm saying you as the player should not be put in a disadvantage prior a challenge, your player's characteristics should stay "as is" and the world around you should increase in skills to make God Hard, "God Hard". That's what they practically did for Bayonetta, Devil May Cry 3 and so on. I've mentioned the "Chess-Factor" example with hope to make my point easier for people to understand (happily, a few people did as highlighted here). Unfortunately, if you are still thinking that I am "just weaselling your way out of it", then there is no point continuing this topic because you have made me believe that you'll never "get it".

BTW, I HAVE completed God Hard mode, it was very difficult but I have completed it. I wonder if you have too? Please don't assume that what I've mentioned earlier meant that I am a non-skilled gamer.
 

Trojan X

Banned
yo_soy_el_topo said:
I guess, I am top 10 on every challenge on ps3/360 (except 6) though and have played more of this game than fucking anything in the past few years.

And fuck gears of war.

Your comment hurt me man.

Replace glitch with technique. Bad semantics yes, gets point across though. Next time I'll be more careful with my video game lingo cause, no offense, there is a lot of people like you out there I forget about.


Do you think Vanquish's playability is better than the Gears of War series too? Your thoughts?
 
I bought GoW 1 and liked the multiplayer. A friend of mine talked me into buying the 3rd one and I can honestly say it was one of the worst purchases I ever made. I just couldn't get into it, the multiplayer or the story.

For some people Vanquish is like a 1 time play through but for me I played multiple times and put like 50+ hours in challenges alone. I couldn't play gears even 1 time through without dozing off.
 

Mutombo

Member
Why this game was not lauded with appraisal is beyond me. Compared to Gears of War this game is so, so much better. Just goes to see what hype does to the uncounscious mind of the reviewer. I cannot want to see what the developers would do with the sequel; not that I see faults within this game, I just see so much more potential. (Viewtiful Joe says hello.)

I was really afraid of what I currently seem to be having with videogames: I get bored really quickly. After playing an hour or two I get the gist of it and the prospect of playing more of what I’ve already played turns me off. (I call it the ‘Halflife 2 syndrome’). In terms of structure, this game is paced the same way as the aforementioned Gears of War. You always enter new rooms with new enemies and have to kill them. But where the gameplay in GoW is always the same, apart from a new gun or so, the gameplay in Vanquish is entirely up to you and your skill. This game makes playing awesome. It makes you feel awesome. Goddamn, I want a sequel. I urge everyone to pick up this game for a few bucks as it’s shit cheap everywhere these days and you’re missing out on probably one of the most fun action games this generation.
 

conman

Member
Mutombo said:
I was really afraid of what I currently seem to be having with videogames: I get bored really quickly. After playing an hour or two I get the gist of it and the prospect of playing more of what I’ve already played turns me off. (I call it the ‘Halflife 2 syndrome’). In terms of structure, this game is paced the same way as the aforementioned Gears of War. You always enter new rooms with new enemies and have to kill them. But where the gameplay in GoW is always the same, apart from a new gun or so, the gameplay in Vanquish is entirely up to you and your skill. This game makes playing awesome. It makes you feel awesome.
Well said. I've begun feeling the same way over the past couple of years. I think it has to do with a few things:

First, I've come to realize that visual tech can be enough to get me through a game (but this gen has gone on long enough that that's no longer enough).

Second, I've come to realize that narrative can be enough to get me through a game (but games have become too dependent on story and most designers aren't good storytellers, so storylines have become incredibly generic and derivative).

Third, games that focus on strong mechanics and good play systems stay as fresh as the day they were released. A game like Vanquish continues to grow the more you play it. No need for fancy tech or narrative gimmicks.
 

Kajiba

Member
Guess who just started playing Vanquish!!!?? =D

Yo seriously, This game is to good. Roughly put an hour into it right now since 10. Think I'm going to do an all nighter on this one. Me putting this on hard might stop that though lol.
 

Concept17

Member
Kajiba said:
Guess who just started playing Vanquish!!!?? =D

Yo seriously, This game is to good. Roughly put an hour into it right now since 10. Think I'm going to do an all nighter on this one. Me putting this on hard might stop that though lol.

There isn't a giant difference between Normal and Hard. You just have to take a little more time doing things. Boss fights are more a matter of timing how and when they attack you.

That being said, I'm at 88% on trophies. I just have to finish collecting about 10 more statues, and then do the challenges. I've been avoiding them after hearing so many people say they get near impossible at the end.

Should I be scared, or just go balls deep?
 

B-Genius

Unconfirmed Member
I am stuck with a tiny CRT TV to play this via composite, and can I just say the idea for an 'SDTV mode' in a game as extravagantly eye-meltingly awesome as Vanquish is pure wonder.

While I would obviously prefer to play on a big HD screen, it does absolutely nothing to detract from the experience and the fun.
 

Anteater

Member
What does the SDTV mode do? Does it change the UI?

Mutombo said:
Why this game was not lauded with appraisal is beyond me. Compared to Gears of War this game is so, so much better. Just goes to see what hype does to the uncounscious mind of the reviewer. I cannot want to see what the developers would do with the sequel; not that I see faults within this game, I just see so much more potential. (Viewtiful Joe says hello.)

No multiplayer, a lot of people are willing to give shooters a try because it has multiplayer, I remember Kane & lynch sold over a million and I thought the demo was really terrible, I also feel that MP also provide different modes that compensate the shortcomings of some games' core design, kind of like games that lets you "make your own fun" because now you get to go through different modes with a buddy.
 

Kajiba

Member
Stop at act three last night.

Gonna try and finish it today if I can. I'm happy I waited to get this game later down the road instead of buying it the same year as bayo. Plus I got it for cheap too. Win/win
 

kodecraft

Member
PlatinumGamesJP said:
Just to amuse myself, extremely silly would be this:

BURNS: Sam, that turret over there... Sure all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds, but all our worlds are f%&ed if we don't take it out right now!

SAM: I'm not sure I share your optimism that taking out that turret will bring about a greater happiness, but we must cultivate our garden! A garden free of Russian machine gun turrets.

(I'll try harder next time.)


Good to see you here, JP.
 

B-Genius

Unconfirmed Member
Anteater said:
What does the SDTV mode do? Does it change the UI?
Yeah, I think it just makes some text more readable.

But in no way does it seem intrusive. I have subs and commlink messages turned off to save screen space, but just in general it looks amazing on a SDTV, even with all the ridiculous effects and everything filling your view.

I used to work at a company that tested their games on SDTVs, and I hated having to be "that guy". But I am so grateful for it now, hehe.
 
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