Nintendo itself -- not its subsidiaries, outside developers, etc. -- should make more platforming games that have nothing to do with Mario, and then add in Mario near the end of development. Super Mario Bros. 2 was mind-blowing because of it. That above screen of Super Mario Bros. 2 oozes nostalgia for me. That game had such a distinct look.
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New Super Mario Bros 2 announced for 3DS - August 2012
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
ShockingAlberto
Member
I was going to scan this thread for "should not be full price" but I found it on the last page.
Neat.
Neat.
Those images make the NES Mario games look as close to each other as the NSMB games look.
Well, they are all new things, but they try to make it as close as the previous one as possible.
Nostalgia aside, those screens do nothing to prove your point
I dunno, they're clearly trying different things within a framework in all of them up till NSMB when its just "Okay so its Peach's castle and theres some SMW Hills and clouds and we'll just change the texture on them and call it a day"
Really? The one with the crazy blocks and hills looks the same to you as the one with the bricks and bushclouds?
Alex
Member
NSMB games are very sterile games, visually, so yes. They look cheap and it all just feels like nostalgia towing without the creativity of the rest of the series. Although, I thought 3D Land suffered from this too, even though it was more technically accomplished. Sometimes they just seem way too comfortable with the established.
When you can look at a level and feel like you've seen everything in it before several times, it loses some luster. I realize this is a cheap, safe game for them to make, but despite that the Wii one was great and it'd be cool to see them do more with the art than lift it from old files.
Besides the fact that one is a 2D image and the other likely to be a modeled 3D castle and 3D hills with stereoscopic depth?
How the FUCK could you possibly think that. WTF
I completely 100% understand people wanting this new game to be awesome. Of course everyone wants another awesome 2D mario! And I suppose what looks to be re-used assets doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence. However, I'd like to bring up a couple points:
- A couple sparse screenshots isn't enough to properly evaluate a game. E3 will give us a better idea of what to really expect from this game
- Even if the art style isn't everyone's favorite, the gameplay itself will likely still be excellent. I know a lot of people feel that NSMB games play like butt, but it seems that just as many people think they play great.
- I think we should learn to accept that NSMB games aren't "for" hardcore gamers. It's weird to be saying that about a mario game, but the point still stands. Millions of people love the shit out of NSMB, art style and all. And it sucks if these games aren't for us specifically since hey, mario is awesome, but we're still also getting games like 3Dland and the galaxy games.
It's fine if you thought the FLUDD-less parts were your favorite parts of the game. Nothing wrong with that.
I didn't though, it felt like tacked on filler that was too different from the rest of the game.
I am not calling 2D platformers to be mindless, but I do think they are too simple for me. Many times I have played a 2.5D game and looked at the background thinking "why can't I go there?" and "Why am I stuck in this obstacle course?".
The FLUDD-less parts of Sunshine also felt less stimulating, since you were just jumping on random blocks instead of on an actual world. Felt more like test stages to test out the physics that were refitted to be levels.
Yes, since both backgrounds for the games were the same (a solid color background for both SMB1 and 3, and the same Princess Peach castle background for NSMB and NSMB2), and the differences between both games is also the same (the P-meter and the block itself). Even the hills on the back have different patterns.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
It'd be perfect with 3D...you come across Chargin' Chuck and, BOOM, he splits into three of them who all jump out towards the screen.
Monty Mole popping out of the foreground like in SMW would be another cool 3D effect.
Criminal Upper
Banned
How i feel about the Mario franchise as of late.
Right, because Mario titles have all been rated extremely low, and constantly get hammered critically.
Quit it with the hyperbol.
Yeah, the Galaxy games have quality in every category.
Change that pic to "2D Marios" though, and it would be far off at all.
How does this change the scenery from being any less creatively bankrupt?
Its like saying The Lorax in 3D as a completely different movie because it has depth when you watch it. That Once-ler is still gonna chop down the trees no matter which version you see.
These would be really cool actually.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
My problem with the "It's important to have cheap development so they can have money for AAA titles" thing is: 2D Mario already is THE Nintendo AAA game. If they can't justify something impressive for a game they're probably counting on selling tens of millions of copies, when would they ever?
It's just a stylistic choice; one we don't all like (at least a third time consecutively).
It's just a stylistic choice; one we don't all like (at least a third time consecutively).
SMB to SMB3 to SMB4?
Glorified G
Member
Bad example, since story is not the same as graphics (which is what he is talking about).
Lorax in 3D will look different, which is his argument. Of course the story will be the same, it has no part in the train of thought.
Not that I think what he said is some sort of rule, but I don't think SMB3 (or SMW) had a change of style per se it's just that graphics evolved, but it's still pretty much in the same wave as SMB unlike Yoshi's Island, which is a spin-off even if it's SMB4 in Japan.
Its a rather good thing then that the NSMB line hasn't come at the expense of traditional 3D Mario games. I rather enjoyed 3D land and both Galaxy's as well, imagine that.
Agent Unknown
Member
Neiteio said:
Just wanted to say what a great idea this is and I really hope they're thinking about it. They could even have a little insert with the game too ie: "For even more fun, connect this game to NSMB Mii coming this Fall for the new Wii U system!"
qq more said:
It was already a crime they weren't bosses in 3DLand. If they're not in this game it'll be the second SMB 3 themed sequel for them to be passed on which would be rediculous. I don't want to fight Bowser Jr or Boom Boom in every single fortress.
They did that with the Wario game on the Virtual Boy, didn't they? I haven't played it but I thought they did.
so much potential to use stereoscopic 3D to great effect.
seriously, everyone needs to just take a step back and wait until we know more about this game than a title and a handful of 2D stills. the NSMB brand is huge all over the world, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that they're bringing that name and style back for a growing platform.
for all we know, the gameplay could be revelatory. cautious optimism is the way to be.
seriously, everyone needs to just take a step back and wait until we know more about this game than a title and a handful of 2D stills. the NSMB brand is huge all over the world, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that they're bringing that name and style back for a growing platform.
for all we know, the gameplay could be revelatory. cautious optimism is the way to be.
Nocturnowl
Member
As the single reference to SMW they'll bring back Reznor at the end of each fortress letting the repetition continue with a twist, hang on this is NSMB, Tower is the correct term in which case I must add that having far more vertical style tower stages over the fortress or castle setup is kind of grating, the towers are rarely as fun and have boring music as well.
How i feel about the Mario franchise as of late.
No
But i'm curious, George (hurhur), what Mario game started this trend you speak of?
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Some of it I can put aside as that; better use of color allowing Mario to have his red/blue colors rather than brown, for instance. But I still think they had some notable changes/additions to the overall look. In 3 we got the new title font that's still used in Mario games to this day, the rounded rectangular platforms of many colors (as we've seen a bit of in an NSMB2 shot), the hanging platforms. World brought in the oval hills and clouds which are all the hell over the place in the NSMB games, and tossed out the standard brick to make the yellow spinners the new common piece.
Heh. I think we got something like 4 for Super Mario 3D Land? Though in this case we have to wait less time for release than SM3DL did to even get an E3 showing.Cipherr said:
This makes me realize--we've now seen what's supposed to be the same castle from the same perspective multiple times, but with markedly different fore and backgrounds. Either it's moving or Peach has pre-fab castles put up all over the place.Lijik said:
Naked Snake
Member
Day fucking 1. Do I even have to say that?
Funny, it was only a couple of days ago that I filled the post play survey for NSMB on Club Nintendo website and I was fondly remembering the experience in my head.
3DS is an unstoppable monster.
Funny, it was only a couple of days ago that I filled the post play survey for NSMB on Club Nintendo website and I was fondly remembering the experience in my head.
3DS is an unstoppable monster.
The Galaxies are getting everything I could possibly want in terms of style and music. But it's frustrating that sidescroller Mario (which I like more) is getting the shaft despite selling way more.
Yes, and New Super Mario Bros Wii is loved by most who played it as well.
Quality is not being sacrificed, at all.
Agent Unknown
Member
Sorry, but I think Nintendo is reaching out to SMB 3 fans with this game, not fans who think SMB 3 NES is 100% untouchable perfection which they should never ever bother to revisit again in a 2D game or something.
This is a Mario game, in game text and manual translation are trivial and won't even come close to delaying the game. Heck, Nintendo games don't even have real manuals anymore, they're just quick reference fold outs now.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
It's more like they've improved the 3D Marios by making them more like the 2D Marios.
StickSoldier
Member
As much as I hate the style of art NSMB uses, that's not really my main concern for the series. What really bothers me is the lack of world map and secrets that the Super Mario 3 and World had. It's like they completely forgot how awesome those made the 3/World. If they can bring back some awesome secrets, and create a world map that is similar World or at least has secrets in it like 3, then I'll forgive the art style.
Yea but it's such a vague statement. At best it could just mean that it's another 2D platformer. At worse it means that it's going to be another "New" game. If the rumblings of super Mario 4 are anything to go by, I think there's a chance NSMBM was canned. Of course I'm reaching for hope, but I'm honestly all New super Mario brothered out.
Agent Unknown
Member
That could be cool and I loved the Reznor dinos (Miyamoto and the SMB team seem to really love dinosaurs, dragons and reptiles in general).
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
It's not so much that SMB 1, 2, 3, and World stand up graphically/artistically to the NSMB series, it's that they were beautiful for their time and were constantly improving. We all know Nintendo is capable of amazing 2D environments -- everything from Yoshi's Island to Kirby's Canvas Curse to Wario Land: Shake It. I want to see them build upon their tradition of amazing sprite based art. Until then, the NSMB games won't feel 100% like classic Mario to me, and will instead come off as second rate, artistic hack jobs.
Because the NSMB games likely sell so well because of a combination of the easy-to-understand gameplay and and the unassuming, colourful art-style.
If you give people something they really love, there are going to be people who feel the exact opposite. Give people something that's more middle-of-the-road and you'll attaract a wider audience.
Glorified G
Member
If Super Mario 4 is a brand new 3d or 2d e available at launch for the Wi U, all will be forgiven.
Sis Focaccia
Member
You non-haters (lol) gotta understand.
The Mario games up until NSMB were all extremely well-crafted labours of love, and that's a big part of why we love them so much. They ooze soul because dozens of crafty japanese enthusiasts poured their soul into it, for hours and hours.
That's clearly not the case here, and to a lot of us, it feels straight up sacrilegious. When Disney started making low-budget straight-to-video sequels to the Jungle Book and other classics, that felt wrong too. Where there's a tradition for going all the way, a cheap cop-out is heartbreaking.
Even if a big portion of the NSMB audience is okay with the same visual style, I think Nintendo is making a mistake here. The new Mario audience will grow up to love Mario even more if it has more of that special "je ne sais quoi" that comes from serious artistry. Kids accept whatever is fun, but they can feel the difference between something deep and something shallow, even if they appreciate both in the moment. As a child I was in awe of Super Mario World, and it developed into a fondness that made me a fan to this day. I spent hours on other decent (but generic) platformers in my youth too, but I've forgotten many of them. The feeling of something thorough stays with you, and grows.
Do you guys really think a brand new Mario with all the bells and whistles & freshness that SMB3, SMW and YI had (when they first came out) would sell less than a new NSMB game? I don't think so. They could easily make the game play exactly like the other NSMB games, just with richer visuals and audio. But the best thing would be to actually respect the legacy of Mario by making something brand spanking new without sacrificing what already works.
It would be a far better way for Nintendo to cultivate their brand too, instead of this fast food version.
The Mario games up until NSMB were all extremely well-crafted labours of love, and that's a big part of why we love them so much. They ooze soul because dozens of crafty japanese enthusiasts poured their soul into it, for hours and hours.
That's clearly not the case here, and to a lot of us, it feels straight up sacrilegious. When Disney started making low-budget straight-to-video sequels to the Jungle Book and other classics, that felt wrong too. Where there's a tradition for going all the way, a cheap cop-out is heartbreaking.
Even if a big portion of the NSMB audience is okay with the same visual style, I think Nintendo is making a mistake here. The new Mario audience will grow up to love Mario even more if it has more of that special "je ne sais quoi" that comes from serious artistry. Kids accept whatever is fun, but they can feel the difference between something deep and something shallow, even if they appreciate both in the moment. As a child I was in awe of Super Mario World, and it developed into a fondness that made me a fan to this day. I spent hours on other decent (but generic) platformers in my youth too, but I've forgotten many of them. The feeling of something thorough stays with you, and grows.
Do you guys really think a brand new Mario with all the bells and whistles & freshness that SMB3, SMW and YI had (when they first came out) would sell less than a new NSMB game? I don't think so. They could easily make the game play exactly like the other NSMB games, just with richer visuals and audio. But the best thing would be to actually respect the legacy of Mario by making something brand spanking new without sacrificing what already works.
It would be a far better way for Nintendo to cultivate their brand too, instead of this fast food version.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
YES! This is pretty much the point I was trying to make.
Winnie the Pimp
Member
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
How i feel about the Mario franchise as of late.
funny pic
For the most part this is sadly true.
Galaxy series and Mario 3D Land notwithstanding, everything else has been a major disappointment from their Japanese studios (Retro has been great as always)
and you got this from 4 generic screenshots? wow, kudos to you
How is incorporating old features into a new mario game not respecting the legacy? The "New Super Mario bros" is a series in itself, not unlike Paper Mario, M&L Rpgs, and the Galaxy games... which each have their own styles that are often used again. This is no more lazy than any normal Mario game sequel.
Also, these particular Mario games are meant to appeal to a wider audience, an audience who clearly eats it up every time the see it, without complaint.