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[Ponn]

I still don't see it.

On Steam you need to signed in and on the internet. So, please whilst quoting me, how is it different?

Besides I'm completely certain that you can play the game with just the disc if it's second hand. I'm certain the fee is just for the install.

Otherwise this would mean offline Xbox Ones can't play anything.

You have got to be trolling at this point.

 

[sangreal]

Damage control, what a clusterfuck. The wording is very careful not to explain how lending a game used on a separate profile would work.

Lending a game may or may not work, but we'll have to wait until they unveil the plans for transferring licenses. The fee they're talking about isn't for transferring licenses though (whether or not there is one). That was misrepresented today and that's what he is trying to clear up. The "fee" is with regard to creating additional licenses by tying it to a second account

 

[flyinpiranha]

Fuck no

You're right.

With Steam I need to have an activation key, be online to activate it, then can only play through my account. But I can sign in on my Steam account on another machine and play the game.

For the Xbox One, I need to have an activation key, be online to activate it, then can only play through my account. But I can sign in on my Xbox One account on another machine and play the game.

I see the difference now.

 

[Eusis]

Yeah but what about the guy who got banned because he supposedly legitimately bought a copy of Halo 4 from a store a few days before its official release date, and stupidly trying to play the game while logged into XBL. He got banned, and he had to buy a new xbox.

Would he have also lost his whole game collection if he were playing on Xbox One?

Eh, I kind of expect the game just wouldn't activate and thus it'd be a moot point. But they were good about this before, maybe their detection methods worked great in the past, but more recently they've gotten circumvented so well they took a more simplistic "is this game out y/n" approach and so he got screwed over for it.

Still, an erroneous ban is far more devastating than before, so yeah...

 

[dragonelite]

Man one hand i think DD only use it on steam.
But with steam i know i can use my games on a new tig.

With next gen im not even sure they will stay at x86 architecture next next gen.
Find it kinda shitty also that for $65 you dont even own the game and need permission to play.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

And the media will say that there aren't concrete answers to these questions and just let Microsoft stick to their script of hiding this shit from us until its too late.

When is too late?

Do you think you're going to buy this day 1 and suddenly realise "oh shit I can't trade games in"?

The thing isn't out for months.

 

[soldat7]

http://majornelson.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-and-used-games/

Why not provide that clarity today? All the bad PR...

 

[JCreasy]

So lets say i give a game to my friend to keep it for a couple of weeks.What then?

Can't use your Xbox One for a couple of weeks, unless your friend pays Microsoft for the game. Then he can use it on his profile.

And by pay, I mean give them $60.

 

[H_Prestige]

No one, but no one seems to make a fuss about it.

Uh, yes? That's one of the drawbacks of DD and one of the advantages of buying a physical product.

Until today that is.

 

[Cat]

So still a huge downgrade from what you used to be able to do with gaming, which was just bring a fucking game to anyone's house and pop it in and play.

Agreed.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Almost like it's turning out to be the Ferengei of game consoles.

 

[jet1911]

You're right.

With Steam I need to have an activation key, be online to activate it, then can only play through my account. But I can sign in on my Steam account on another machine and play the game.

For the Xbox One, I need to have an activation key, be online to activate it, then can only play through my account. But I can sign in on my Xbox One account on another machine and play the game.

I see the difference now.

But Steam sales

 

[Rebel Leader]

^+ ability to play off line. Not needed to be connected every 24 hours

 

[sangreal]

I -get- that it's a physical copy. That is the only type of copy I have ever tried to lend. Who lends xbla games?

We're talking past each other because the thread is moving quickly, but my point is that depending on the transfer scheme they reveal, it may or may not be possible to lend games to a friend but Harrison's statements specifically excluded transferring licenses (because they aren't ready to reveal that yet). All of the quotes from Harrison about the "fee" are related to tying the game to your friend's account without removing it from yours, not transferring. I agree that the system is anti-consumer (without further details)

 

[Suikoguy]

Man one hand i think DD only use it on steam.
But with steam i know i can use my games on a new rig.

With next gen im not even sure they will stay at x86 architecture next next gen.
Find it kinda shitty also that for $65 you dont even own the game and need permission to play.

This is a good point, the length of time you can expect your steam games to continue working is far longer then a console generation is.

 

[jschreier]

No, that was Kotaku. It was never supported by the quotes they gave.



Right, but that is a different scenario than the original Kotaku article claimed

You are misreading or misremembering. To quote our story:

But what if you want to bring a game disc to a friend's house and play there? You'll have to pay a fee—and not just some sort of activation fee, but the actual price of that game—in order to use a game's code on a friend's account.

 

[marrec]

So hackers have even more incentive to steal accounts now...

 

[Freki]

-Except that you have to buy your xbox from only a single supplier.
-You can't upgrade it over time.
-It requires internet once a day for the off-line mode
-You'll have to pay the console tax
-You don't trust Microsoft as much as you trust Gabe
-They probably won't have the great sales Steam has
-You have to pay to access xbox live. Steam is free.

Etc.

Xbox One has to be online once every 24h if you want to play a single player game - Steam can be in offline mode indefinitely.

 

[sangreal]

You are misreading or misremembering. To quote our story:

to quote you: But what if you want to bring a game disc to a friend's house and play there? You'll have to pay a fee

 

[Suikoguy]

You are misreading or misremembering. To quote our story:

Congrats on the story btw, pretty significant confirmation and additional information to go along with Wired's article.

 

[JCreasy]

http://majornelson.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-and-used-games/

Check out those comments.

HE is getting FLAMED!!!!

 

[FoneBone]

"enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail" is pretty vague about how that works.

Guessing you'll be able to trade one game for another (or at least for a discount), for XBLA points, or for store credit at certain retailers. But "used" games will no longer exist.

to quote you: But what if you want to bring a game disc to a friend's house and play there? You'll have to pay a fee

OK, Kotaku does fuck up, but to not even quote the whole sentence isn't exactly fair.

 

[jschreier]

to quote you: But what if you want to bring a game disc to a friend's house and play there? You'll have to pay a fee

Sure, if you remove half of the sentence it fits what you're saying. I hope you don't make a regular habit of only reading the first halves of sentences.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

Sony is the next to "fuck up" along with Microsoft. EA didn't just drop the online pass on all future titles because only one of the next gen systems was implementing it at the hardware level. PS4 is next. Have fun people.

Would shed some light on 'NintendoGate' if that comes to pass.

 

[Ushae]

Shinobi ur title is confusing as fuck and is gona get ppl riled up for no reason.

 

[Winterfang]

Lol, you'll have to upload your profile everywhere you go. Lets bring back the VMU!

That's what the cloud is for.

 

[XxHANNERxX]

its a pitty, but it seems microsoft fucked it up

How?

 

[sangreal]

Sure, if you remove half of the sentence it fits what you're saying. I hope you don't make a regular habit of only reading the first halves of sentences.

Okay, let's try one full sentence then. But what if you want to bring a game disc to a friend's house and play there?

Is that, or is that not the question you went on to answer (it's not, if you want to rely on that technicality)? btw, where were you clearing up that misunderstanding in all the threads that inaccurately responded to your quote?

 

[Raptor]

I'm assuming they won't allow you to be signed in from multiple systems at once, so that still defeats people who want to borrow games.

Was about to ask this, is still the same shit, we can't borrow games.

:/

 

[soul creator]

Sure, if you remove half of the sentence it fits what you're saying. I hope you don't make a regular habit of only reading the first halves of sentences.

unfortunately, there are a lot of people reading only the first half, lol

also, plz ask if the disc can be used as verification (in effect, making the disc a "portable license" or something). So if I lend the game to a friend, the game is installed, but he can play it with the disc in the drive...but if he tries to play it without the disc, that triggers the fee requirement.

 

[ridethepiggy]

You're right.

With Steam I need to have an activation key, be online to activate it, then can only play through my account. But I can sign in on my Steam account on another machine and play the game.

For the Xbox One, I need to have an activation key, be online to activate it, then can only play through my account. But I can sign in on my Xbox One account on another machine and play the game.

I see the difference now.

Yes because Xbox will have backwards compatability this gen and next gen and Steam doesn't. Oh... Wait.

Because Xbox routinely has sales that rival Steam... Oh wait.

Because Steam does have an offline mode that doesnt require an every 24 hour activation.

 

[Darknight]

Im not getting the Steam comparisons, really. I feel people are just bitter and being defensive? Im just concerned like everyone else and feel this is BS, no matter how you spin it.

Steam is free online to play, has tons of 50%~75% off games sales, you can buy steam keys from other vendors who may sell even cheaper (!!!) than Steam itself, plus can play in offline mode as long as you like.

WTF people.

 

[0xCA2]

Sure, if you remove half of the sentence it fits what you're saying. I hope you don't make a regular habit of only reading the first halves of sentences.

Of course people are going to assume you were using the first half of the sentence to mean "play games period."

 

[louiedog]

I've rented quite a few games from Redbox to see if I like them. Hopefully they allow for some kind of trial period. Didn't a few games do that with their online passes?

 

[ultron87]

This precision attack on borrowing games is so bizarre. Like if it was a side effect of killing used retail games it could make sense but he specifically said it wasn't that.

 

[Freki]

I still don't see it.

On Steam you need to signed in and on the internet. So, please whilst quoting me, how is it different?

You have no fucking clue what you are talking about!
Steam has an offline mode for an unlimited period of time.

Besides I'm completely certain that you can play the game with just the disc if it's second hand. I'm certain the fee is just for the install.

Otherwise this would mean offline Xbox Ones can't play anything.

Correct! - Phill Harrison stated that your Xbox One has to be online once every 24h in order to be able to play sp games - http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-does-require-internet-connection-cant-play-o-509164109

Kotaku: If I’m playing a single player game, do I have to be online at least once per hour or something like that? Or can I go weeks and weeks?

Harrison: I believe it’s 24 hours.

Kotaku: I’d have to connect online once every day.

Harrison: Correct.

 

[JABEE]

Major Nelson did a good job of trying to confuse people in the face of the very clear descriptions of the authentication system given by Phil Harrison.

 

[maltrain]

This IS NOT like now... do you know to read?

I can lend a game to a friend today and he can play whenever he want.

With this system, that's impossible.

Not mentioning selling the game... very confussing...

 

[Meus Renaissance]

It would mean you're required to download a Blu-Ray sized game, which can be beyond 20GBs in size. It's not feasible at all especially if you're friend doesn't have an incredibly fast fibre connection

 

[strata8]

I didn't realize it was quite that literal. So it's basically the same as buying a PC game? I could sell Diablo 3, but as it doesn't have a license, it has no worth until the person buys a digital copy from Blizzard?

As far as I know, yes. The disc contains a one-use activation code that activates the game on your account, but other than that it's just a dummy that contains game data to install. Even if you sell the disc you still own the game, hence the fee for others who want to install the game.

It would mean you're required to download a Blu-Ray sized game, which can be beyond 20GBs in size. It's not feasible at all especially if you're friend doesn't have an incredibly fast fibre connection

No? Once you're in your account on your friend's Xbox you'd be able to install the game using the disc.

 

[FlyingTeacup]

can you log in your account from different ip?

family account? my bro and I have our own ps1 and ps2, but we shared the games.

 

[louiedog]

It would mean you're required to download a Blu-Ray sized game, which can be beyond 20GBs in size. It's not feasible at all especially if you're friend doesn't have an incredibly fast fibre connection

Wouldn't you just install it from the disc?

 

[Suikoguy]

Major Nelson did a good job of trying to confuse people in the face of the very clear descriptions of the authentication system given by Phil Harrison.

Yeah, I thought he meant something else when I first read it.

Anyway, I'm done arguing about this being compared to Steam, if people can't see the difference then they either never will, or have another agenda.

P.S.
Sony, don't fuck this up, please.

 

[0xCA2]

Major Nelson did a good job of trying to confuse people in the face of the very clear descriptions of the authentication system given by Phil Harrison.

This isn't major nelson, this (playing games on different consoles via a profile) was in an article long before he said it.

Harrison was talking specifically about playing games via a disc, but the article implied that he was talking about playing games period.

 

[User Name Here]

Yeah, just as I figured.

 

[sangreal]

This IS NOT like now... do you know to read?

I can lend a game to a friend today and he can play whenever he want.

With this system, that's impossible.

Not mentioning selling the game... very confussing...

it is like now for online content, not physical games. they haven't yet talked about their plans for transferring games to other people other than to say they have a plan

 

[odhiex]

So basically "yeah a friend can play it for free as long as you're there watching him".

yeah. I don't think my friends are generous enough to give me their profile details unwatched..lol

 

[Schnozberry]

Welcome to the brave new future. You don't own anything, you just own a temporary revocable license with no real world value.

 

[Mushroomer25]

Better. But still not great. At best, this is just a complicated workaround to use a feature that has been standard in consoles for years. I don't see the benefit on the consumer's end, and that's what is so disturbing about this. I feel like I'm being tossed under the bus as a paying customer.


So, you ask - why is Steam getting away with the same thing? Expectations. I've never rented a PC game. I don't think I've ever even loaned one. So when Steam makes everything purely digital (more convenient for me), while only removing a possible feature that I never thought I could use in the first place. The benefits outweigh the losses.

 

[iamvin22]

"Another piece of clarification around playing games at a friend’s house – should you choose to play your game at your friend’s house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile."

so your friend gets the achievement while on your xbox one?!? awesome great job MS.