Support NeoGAF

[Of All Trades]

Not considering the price difference between console games and PC games. People are only okay with Steam because of the amazing prices. Unless you think Microsoft are going to start doing their own massive sales and selling games for five bucks, it's an entirely different situation to digital distribution on the PC.

It wasn't at Steam levels (although the winter Steam sale wasn't really that great in comparison to what Amazon was doing) but MS did have some really good deals during winter and routinely has a handful of games on sale every week. The main problem with GoD is that MSRP doesn't reflect the market.

 

[dallow_bg]

I bought Dishonored on PC as a retail disc. I'm actually a bit at a loss if any major PC release had a retail disc that wasn't basically a DRM-platform launcher (uplay, origin, steam, gfwl).

That's basically what these XOne retail games have turned into.
Retail PC games with serial keys and all.


I wouldn't be able to even donate old games anymore.*

*pending details from MS

 

[Father_Brain]

So this would be perfectly fine if discs weren't sold at all? I said it before, but the discs are just dummies to store game data and initially activate the game, exactly like Steam games sold in retail. Everything else is entirely digital otherwise.

Which is exactly the issue here. Until now, owning a physical disc/cart/whatever has meant having certain rights as a consumer. What MS is doing - even given the spread of online passes this gen - is a radical departure from how console gaming has worked for three decades.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

Why are people freaking out when the 360 does this today?

If I buy Halo on Games on Demand, go to my friends house, I can then download the game from there. As long as I'm signed in since I own the game, we can play. However, if he decides he wants to play it when I'm not there, he can't just play it for free on his account simply because I downloaded it onto his machine.

 

[Kifimbo]

Would be awesome if tomorrow, Valve announces that users can trade their Steam games. The timing would be perfect.

 

[Akira]

Saw this on the comments at Major Nelson's blog:

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Dude is in full damage control mode and spinning hard

I don't even think most of the Xbox Rep's truly know what the deal is and half of those that do are just flat out fabricating facts for the sake of damage control.

Its fairly obvious this thing will block used games and not allow others to play your games.

 

[KingFire]

So you can't lend games to friends. You have to physically be there, sign in, and play with them. Unless you wanna give your friends your account info, which is not a good idea.

 

[p3tran]

Sony is the next to "fuck up" along with Microsoft. EA didn't just drop the online pass on all future titles because only one of the next gen systems was implementing it at the hardware level. PS4 is next. Have fun people.

well, if I was sony, I would have EVERYONE in the conference room, making/overruling decisions right now!

but if they are so stupid like microsoft, and if they take the microsoft way, I cant see how it can be anything different than the same pointy stick to the heart for them too.

 

[dallow_bg]

Which is exactly the issue here. Until now, owning a physical disc/cart/whatever has meant having certain rights as a consumer. What MS is doing - even given the spread of online passes this gen - is a radical departure from how console gaming has worked for three decades.

It's pretty amazing how quickly some people just don't give a shit anymore.
It's all digital baby! We don't really own it anyway!

Why are people freaking out when the 360 does this today?

If I buy Halo on Games on Demand, go to my friends house, I can then download the game from there. As long as I'm signed in since I own the game, we can play. However, if he decides he wants to play it when I'm not there, he can't just play it for free on his account simply because I downloaded it onto his machine.

Bwahaha

 

[sangreal]

This is the statment Major was clarifying. It's a specific situation that hints if I sold you a physical copy of a game second hand game rather than just wanted to play over a friend's house for a few hours, you'd have to pay full price to actually use the game. That doesn't exist in "the current ecosystem" unless you count online passes, but even those aren't the full price of the game.

Phil doesn't mention selling games at all there (or giving them away), he is talking about your friend activating a copy of your game on their account (in addition to your copy). The "fee" is that they can use your disc to install but still have to buy a license (just like with digital content today). He talks about transfering games (which is what you're discussing) later:

"We will have a solution—we’re not talking about it today—for you to be able to trade your previously-played games online," Harrison said.

The original EG article is actually way more clear than the Kotaku article:

Harrison: Okay, so, I can understand where some of the confusion may have come from, so let me try to help out there. First of all, you can buy a game on a disc from a retail store, come home and install it to your Xbox One. The disc contains all the bits and data on that game, which you can then give to your friend, and they can then install it on their Xbox One. No restriction on that, except that the second person obviously has to pay for it.

You can purchase a game in two ways: you can purchase it from a retail store or you can download it. So the act of putting the bits on the hard drive - the Xbox One doesn't really know or care what method the bits got into the machine, if it was from a disc or downloaded from Xbox Live. But obviously the users will then have to purchase that content.

What I think people are now confusing is the purchasing of content in the first instance with the ability to trade and resell the previously played games. We have a solution for that and we will be announcing exactly how that works in due course.

So they haven't discussed at all about selling secondhand copies. All of his quotes are about tying one copy to multiple accounts at once. He repeatedly mentions he isn't talking today about transferring content to other people

 

[M3d10n]

So different profiles in the same console cannot share games like they do on the 360? If I download a game on my profile, my kid won't be able to play it on his profile? This makes the thing damn near useless in a family setting.

 

[strata8]

Yes, it has the biggest disadvantage to PC gaming and none of the advantages. Fucking hallelujah.

That is, if you consider that a disadvantage.

Which is exactly the issue here. Until now, owning a physical disc/cart/whatever has meant having certain rights as a consumer. What MS is doing - even given the spread of online passes this gen - is a radical departure from how console gaming has worked for three decades.

What MS is doing is moving to an all digital platform, and the changes are just the consequence of that. I don't think their implementation is ideal at all, but it is what it is.

 

[RS4-]

Going to start charging people to rent my profile; throw that shit on some small usb, let them have their fun for a few days then I'll change the PW.

 

[dallow_bg]

That is, if you consider that a disadvantage.



What MS is doing is moving to an all digital platform, and the changes are just the consequence of that. I don't think their implementation is ideal at all, but it is what it is.

Then you should understand why some (most?) people are upset.

 

[doemaaan]

So if I lend Halo 6 to a friend, he has to use my account to play the game for free? But that would also mean that I can't play on my account when he's using mine.

Correct?

 

[Dali]

Phil doesn't mention selling games at all there (or giving them away), he is talking about your friend activating a copy of your game on their account (in addition to your copy). The "fee" is that they can use your disc to install but still have to buy a license (just like with digital content today). He talks about transfering games (which is what you're discussing) later:



The original EG article is actually way more clear than the Kotaku article:


So they haven't discussed at all about selling secondhand copies. All of his quotes are about tying one copy to multiple accounts at once

Ok that actually does fully exclude any hints of this being related to second hand as well.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

So different profiles in the same console cannot share games like they do on the 360? If I download a game on my profile, my kid won't be able to play it on his profile? This makes the thing damn near useless in a family setting.

or hospital setting
or gaming tournament setting
or speedrun marathon setting

yeah...this is gonna hurt.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Saw this on the comments at Major Nelson's blog:

Nice.

 

[TimeEffect]

So if I lend Halo 6 to a friend, he has to use my account to play the game for free? But that would also mean that I can't play on my account when he's using mine.

Correct?

Of course.

I also am sure there will be a limit to how many "active" accounts are activated on x number of consoles

 

[strata8]

Then you should understand why some (most?) people are upset.

Sure, but acting like it's some evil scheme concocted by Microsoft to screw over consumers? That's just absurd.

 

[Darknight]

Why are people freaking out when the 360 does this today?

If I buy Halo on Games on Demand, go to my friends house, I can then download the game from there. As long as I'm signed in since I own the game, we can play. However, if he decides he wants to play it when I'm not there, he can't just play it for free on his account simply because I downloaded it onto his machine.

Today, as of 5/13/2013, I can lend my friends all my 360 games that I have bought at retail (disks) and they can play them on their own accounts to their heart's content.

XBLA is not the same as retail games. Disks you buy and once purchased, you shouldnt have to repay to play it such as when a friend lends you a copy thats been paid for.

 

[JABEE]

Why are people freaking out when the 360 does this today?

If I buy Halo on Games on Demand, go to my friends house, I can then download the game from there. As long as I'm signed in since I own the game, we can play. However, if he decides he wants to play it when I'm not there, he can't just play it for free on his account simply because I downloaded it onto his machine.

Because we're talking about a physical copy of a game.

 

[Demon Ice]

This is if you want to play YOUR game at your friend's house, you can sign into your profile, sure.

What if you want to play somebody's USED game that you don't know who the seller is? Or if you want to lend your game to a friend?

 

[Shinta]

This is going to lead to another huge wave of credit card fraud and account hackings as people give their friends their passwords so they can play games they've rightfully bought and should own.

This just keeps getting worse all the time. What a great reveal!

 

[dallow_bg]

Sure, but acting like it's some evil scheme concocted by Microsoft to screw over consumers? That's just absurd.

Well, no.
It's not an evil scheme, but it does screw over consumers while being pretty beneficial for them.

How does it not?

 

[Wickerbasket]

This is if you want to play YOUR game at your friend's house, you can sign into your profile, sure.

What if you want to play somebody's USED game that you don't know who the seller is? Or if you want to lend your game to a friend?

Then you should buy another console.

Sucks, but that's how it seems.

 

[No_Style]

So let me get this straight:

If I buy Halo 5 the Xbox One, my brother won't be able to play it on the same console with his profile?

If that's the case, it's very much like Steam and thus I won't be getting an Xbox One any time soon.

 

[Replicant]

On most games this will overwritten your save unless the game offers multiple save lots. Or your friend can't save his progress at all.

 

[Dali]

This is if you want to play YOUR game at your friend's house, you can sign into your profile, sure.

What if you want to play somebody's USED game that you don't know who the seller is? Or if you want to lend your game to a friend?

You wouldn't lend a Ferrari would you?

So let me get this straight:

If I buy Halo 5 the Xbox One, my brother won't be able to play it on the same console with his profile?

If that's the case, it's very much like Steam and thus I won't be getting an Xbox One any time soon.

Didn't even think about that. MS's beloved creation the achievement shall contribute to their downfall. Two brothers playing the same games want their own props for their accomplishments.

edit:

ah crafty ms. Should have known they'd have that one covered.

 

[ultron87]

So different profiles in the same console cannot share games like they do on the 360? If I download a game on my profile, my kid won't be able to play it on his profile? This makes the thing damn near useless in a family setting.

You're okay on that point:

http://kotaku.com/you-will-be-able-to-trade-xbox-one-games-online-micros-509140825

Other users on the console will be able to play that game as well, Harrison said. So you don't need to buy multiple games per family. "With the built-in parental controls of the system it is shared amog the users of the device," he said.

 

[Jake Tower]

So this means you should make a new profile for each game you buy, so you may then lend, trade, or sell the profile and game later.

 

[dallow_bg]

So let me get this straight:

If I buy Halo 5 the Xbox One, my brother won't be able to play it on the same console with his profile?

If that's the case, it's very much like Steam and thus I won't be getting an Xbox One any time soon.

Same system, different profile.
That works just fine.

 

[sangreal]

So let me get this straight:

If I buy Halo 5 the Xbox One, my brother won't be able to play it on the same console with his profile?

If that's the case, it's very much like Steam and thus I won't be getting an Xbox One any time soon.

No, your brother will be able to play it on the same console with his profile. He won't be able to play it on another console with his profile

 

[Toothpick]

what a load of shit

 

[Ponn]

Sure, but acting like it's some evil scheme concocted by Microsoft to screw over consumers? That's just absurd.

No, they are doing it purely for the obvious benefits to consumers. And have been entirely straightforward and honest about it the whole time.

 

[Jigolo]

So has there been any info on how PS4 used game situation will go? I'm curious considering MS is handling this terribly. I hope Sony doesn't fuck this up

 

[Shinta]

So this means you should make a new profile for each game you buy, so you may then lend, trade, or sell the profile and game later.

And each one would need Xbox Live Gold to use anything online as well!!!!

 

[ascii42]

So let me get this straight:

If I buy Halo 5 the Xbox One, my brother won't be able to play it on the same console with his profile?

If that's the case, it's very much like Steam and thus I won't be getting an Xbox One any time soon.

Don't think that's the case.

 

[quest]

So different profiles in the same console cannot share games like they do on the 360? If I download a game on my profile, my kid won't be able to play it on his profile? This makes the thing damn near useless in a family setting.

Don't have kids so never thought of that wow. So if you and your kid wanna play 59.99 per person wow.

 

[Wickerbasket]

So this means you should make a new profile for each game you buy, so you may then lend, trade, or sell the profile and game later.

MS would love that, you'd have to pay for Live Gold on every account for every game with online multiplayer.

 

[kingocfs]

So has there been any info on how PS4 used game situation will go? I'm curious considering MS is handling this terribly. I hope Sony doesn't fuck this up

PS4 "will play used games," just like they said it.

You know, just like the XB1 will play used games.

You know it's coming.

 

[No_Style]

Don't think that's the case.

No, your brother will be able to play it on the same console with his profile. He won't be able to play it on another console with his profile

Same system, different profile.
That works just fine.

Thanks dudes.

 

[Ensoul]

Really does not mention anything new. At this point it is a forgone conclusion that in order to play used games a fee in involved. The big question is how much.

Also we have no idea if Sony is doing the same thing.

 

[Glorified G]

This is if you want to play YOUR game at your friend's house, you can sign into your profile, sure.

What if you want to play somebody's USED game that you don't know who the seller is? Or if you want to lend your game to a friend?

I'm confused about this as well. This sounds a lot like xbox live arcade games.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Mandatory "always on" Kinect that signs you in when it hears your voice or see's your face.

Games playable only on your account.

Orwellian, Orthian. You decide.

 

[Bleedorang3]

How is this different than PC or Steam?

 

[soul creator]

What's funny is that their Office 365 DRM is probably more friendly than this (I think it can be activated on 5 machines, and software can be used offline)

 

[sangreal]

nm

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Really does not mention anything new. At this point it is a forgone conclusion that in order to play used games a fee in involved. The big question is how much.

Also we have no idea if Sony is doing the same thing.

All word thus far from Sony has been to the contrary.

So until we hear otherwise you can stop trying to do damage control by making assumptions.