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NPD Sales Results for June 2013 [Up2: 360/3DS Hardware, AC/LM/DK Digital + Retail]

Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
Green Slime said:
Monster Hunter is a port, and it was released in Japan last year. Lego City Undercover proved to be something the consumers didn't want, since it lacked a major IP like previous games.

Meanwhile, Vita had Soul Sacrifice and Toukiden, both of which had a fair amount of hype behind them.
Click to expand...

In Japan, sure. Out of Japan, almost zero.
 
N

NotLiquid

Member
Green Slime said:
Serious question: Having never tried remote play, what is the appeal of it? Isn't the range limited?
Click to expand...

The idea with Vita Remote Play is to be able to play your PS4 games at any place where there's Wi-Fi and assuming you're leaving your console on.

While this does sound great in theory I have severe doubts of it's viability.
 
G

Glass Rebel

Member
Plinko said:
One day soon people will finally transition to calling these numbers "great," because we'll rarely ever see non-holiday numbers like them for a handheld. The market has changed that much.
Click to expand...

I readily admit that I was laughing down from great heights at people suggesting that smartphones would damage the dedicated handheld market just a few years ago and I have already tasted my crow.

At the same time I think that the market also had an exceptional boom during the DS/PSP era thanks to two very different and great handhelds. The DS managed to get the people who have moved on to iOS games now and the PSP was the closest to a portable PS2. It would have been hard to replicate that to begin with but I don't think the lacking sales, especially in the case of Vita, are solely because of smartphones and tablets.

edit: I have made a post about what I think are the issues with 3DS atm in a different thread, let me see if I can find it.
 
C

ciridesu

Member
Plinko said:
One day soon people will finally transition to calling these numbers "great," because we'll rarely ever see non-holiday numbers like them for a handheld. The market has changed that much.
Click to expand...

That's kind of the point though. One can claim that losing to smartphones and tablets was inevitable; but was/is it really? It all comes down to product design. In the end, they are losing to their competitors and not doing great in comparison to the DS. I do admit though that for what the 3DS is, the numbers are arguably great (though I also think the product sucks par a lot of games).
 
B

Bumhead

Banned
At this point, the Vita is an incredibly niche console in a declining handheld market. It's not "dead", but it lives in a position where it will never, ever be a mass market success at this point.

Why are people going to such great lengths to try and draw comparisons between a handheld like that and the newest Nintendo home console that launched less than a year ago? The fact that the Wii U's nearest market competitor right now is the Vita represents an abject failure for Nintendo. The Wii U is a market irrelevance and represents an embarassing collapse of Nintendo's position in this industry as far as the home console market is concerned.

If mitigating that by comparisons to the Vita is what makes people feel better than all power to you I guess. But this constant "bu-bu-bu-but look at Vita!" is absolutely pathetic.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
If Sony want to make Vita a minor success they need to make it smaller, cut the price and turn it into a cheap indie game machine. That's the route to success for them. It means getting rid of unnecessary niceties like the OLED screen and such, but to make it appealing to buyers of indie games (which is where Vita is actually doing okay) they need to drop a couple of price points to $149 and pack in 8GB flash.
 
G

Glass Rebel

Member
My view on what challenges the 3DS is facing right now WW which goes even more for the NA market. I want to preface this by saying that I am very satisfied with the two 3DS XLs we have at home and it's on track to beating out the GBA as my favourite system but I'm not going to ignore that it isn't doing as well as it could or should:

me said:
I'd say the 3DS is doing "well" at the moment. DS-level sales are out of its reach thanks to smartphones and tablets but it has definitely come out of the figurative hole it was a while ago. Nintendo did an excellent job of turning it around with great software and Pokémon XY will continue this streak. It's also a bit premature to discuss its future without knowing what kind of effect Animal Crossing has had on the userbase.

Yet there are a few obvious issues with the system right now and will (maybe?) be in the future.

First of all, as others have mentioned, the sales are down YOY for the first 5 months afaik. I suspect there are mainly two reasons:

  • Lack of model/colour variety, especially in NA. One shouldn't underestimate the importance of colour for portable devices and it's mind boggling that neither the black nor the white XL are available in NA. I've also suspected for a while that not having a neatly designed small version is hurting it. A lower priced "3DS lite" that replaces the first edition alongside the XL is probably a card they aren't quite ready to play though.
  • Lack of mass market software. The first few months of this year had great games but nothing that could attract a big audience that wasn't on the platform already. We'll find out soon if Animal Crossing was different and I highly suspect it was. Pokémon will be the same. It must be worrying for Nintendo though that their Touch Generations stuff from the DS/Wii era won't cut it anymore.
The first one is relatively easy to "fix" but the second one is harder. I honestly don't know what the answer is after Pokémon, Zelda and Smash Bros. (and Monster Hunter 4 for Japan) are out. Kirby? Star Fox? F-Zero? Not to say, most of Nintendo's creative force will probably be focused on saving the Wii U.

Which leads me to another issue: The system is being carried by Nintendo almost exclusively. Iwata has mentioned that third parties are picking up 3DS development but there's no indication so far that this is true. I think the West is mostly lost as far as non-licensed software goes and most Japanese games probably won't push sales as hard in NA and Europe. And even games that have the potential to sell don't come over because of reasons. I fear that both Nintendo being notoriously difficult to work with as far as cartridge production goes and game prices are working against the 3DS and third parties. Fact is, they won't be able to and frankly shouldn't carry the system by themselves and should strive to make third parties happy as well. Some measures that I think have to be taken:

  • More collaborations with and promotions for third parties. What they're currently doing with Atlus and SMT is exactly the kind of thing they need. Work with Capcom, Square-Enix, Konami etc. to bring games to the system they otherwise wouldn't bother with.
  • Improve cartridge manufacturing and distribution.
  • Make different price-points for quality software feasible. $30 and lower needs to be at retail and make publishers money.
  • Foster specific audiences on the platform. Thanks to Atlus it has gained a fair share of JRPGs but it's lacking in many other areas such as racing games or shooters. This is difficult to pull off without falling into the same trap the PSP did where it simply got inferior versions of console games.
Something that's been rumored is that Nintendo is going around trying to resurrect abandoned franchises with other Japanese publishers and it's already known that they will publish Japan-only games in the West. We'll have to wait for TGS and more Nintendo Directs to get a clearer picture of the third party situation though.

The last big problem I see is the digital presence. The eShop is a huge step up from DSi and Wii and the other social features like Spot/StreetPass and (hopefully) soon Miiverse are great Nintendo-like takes on social connectivity but I fear it's too little. This is where the difference in power to the Vita is a clear disadvantage because many indie games are difficult or impossible to port to the 3DS, practically guaranteeing that most downloadable games targeting multiplat won't come to the system. This leaves only iOS/Android stuff and exclusive games and could hurt them in the long run. What can be done? I honestly don't know. Promote stuff, entice indie developers etc.
Click to expand...
 
M

Manmademan

Member
NotLiquid said:
The idea with Vita Remote Play is to be able to play your PS4 games at any place where there's Wi-Fi and assuming you're leaving your console on.

While this does sound great in theory I have severe doubts of it's viability.
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt7itTUZvrQ

First video I found, though it's enough to get the point across. And that's apparently a PS3 hacked to stream it to Vita- PS4 implementation is a lot better.
 
B

BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO

Junior Member
metalslimer said:
The Vita has 0 chance of recovering in the west. Sit back and enjoy the niche japanese games and indie games and ps4 remote play because thats all thats happening after this year. Once Killzone and Tearaway come out that'll probably be it for exclusive vita content from sonys western studios. Also your wording implies this month's god awful sales are decent..

A price drop will come at gamescom though so they wont let it rot
Click to expand...
:lol @ the bolded, me and you both know that isn't true. Bend will never make a console game. Even PSP was getting games like ghost of Sparta when it was completely dead. I'm also wondering why you think there won't be any western games announced at gamescom.
 
N

NotLiquid

Member
Manmademan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt7itTUZvrQ

First video I found, though it's enough to get the point across. And that's apparently a PS3 hacked to stream it to Vita- PS4 implementation is a lot better.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand, I'm not talking about near field remote play, I'm talking about remote play through the internet. Vita is supposed to allow you to use Remote Play from any spot where there's a wireless internet connection assuming your PS4 is on. That's a lot to factor in other than just being close to the console.
 
M

Manmademan

Member
NotLiquid said:
You misunderstand, I'm not talking about near field remote play, I'm talking about remote play through the internet. Vita is supposed to allow you to use Remote Play from any spot where there's a wireless internet connection assuming your PS4 is on. That's a lot to factor in other than just being close to the console.
Click to expand...

Isn't PS4 using Gaikai for remote play via internet? aren't there already impressions of gaikai working in the field before Sony bought it?
 
D

damisa

Member
zomgbbqftw said:
If Sony want to make Vita a minor success they need to make it smaller, cut the price and turn it into a cheap indie game machine. That's the route to success for them. It means getting rid of unnecessary niceties like the OLED screen and such, but to make it appealing to buyers of indie games (which is where Vita is actually doing okay) they need to drop a couple of price points to $149 and pack in 8GB flash.
Click to expand...

People can just play indie games on their smartphone.
 
M

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
allan-bh said:
X Zone was released on june 25. Less than 54k (I supose around 50k) is surprise for me.
Click to expand...

When you see a title like PxZ doing something like that in 11-12 days, and a Castlevania doing 33k in more than a month, something's wrong. But not with the console, I mean not only with the console, and not mainly with the console.
 
D

DaBoss

Member
zomgbbqftw said:
Not with proper controls. At $149 it becomes an impulse buy for people who may be interested in indie games.
Click to expand...
Why would it be saved with that? Most indie games come out on PC (most Vita indie games are ports as of now, but I know that will change) and then there is the odd exclusive.

Handheld market has shrunk. Why would a handheld indie machine do well? How would people find out about the games? Marketing is the weakest link for indie games. It's wishful thinking to think indie games can help the Vita sell.
 
E

Ecotic

Member
Sony's preferred target audience will just never fit for the handheld market. This is something Nintendo has gotten right since the Game Boy. It's well documented scientifically that the very young prefer bright, busy colors and artwork. It's why bubble gum, crayons, and children's clothing are so rich in color. When I was young I thought Nintendo's Game Boy box arts were the prettiest things ever. Animal Crossing New Leaf has got to have the most mindgasm inducing artwork to a child ever. The first time I saw it I thought that if I was a kid, I'd want that.

Animal-Crossing-New-Leaf-animal-crossing-34657471-1920-1200.jpg
Click to expand...

I can fault Nintendo for a lot of things, but at least their child psychological testing department has always understood who buys handheld games, and which type of games they find attractive. Then people get older, their tastes in color grow duller, more muted. And they want what's on consoles.
 
DC1

DC1

Member
idlewild_ said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=615186
Click to expand...
Not really a GOWA postmortem. More like a collection of justifications on why folks didn't like the more complex (skill oriented) combat system. GOWA is one of the better GOW titles.

With the above being said, I would love to hear a true postmortem on Fuse from Insomniac games. However, I'm afraid we won't get that unless they have an extremely successful title or if they fold/get absorbed/go through a transactional restructure(which I absolutely do not want to happen).
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
allan-bh said:
Indie games don't sell a dedicated game system.
Click to expand...

DaBoss said:
Why would it be saved with that? Most indie games come out on PC (most Vita indie games are ports as of now, but I know that will change) and then there is the odd exclusive.

Handheld market has shrunk. Why would a handheld indie machine do well? How would people find out about the games? Marketing is the weakest link for indie games. It's wishful thinking to think indie games can help the Vita sell.
Click to expand...

I'm not implying it would help increase sales to good levels. It would just raise them to above diabolical.

The other route requires hundreds of millions of dollars worth of payola and investment into AAA software. Something Sony have shown they are not prepared to do.

Also, I think the indie games market is such that Vita could just become the default place to play indie games on the go, if it was marketed right. It is easy to develop for and it gives developers a piracy free environment to release their games on, while giving some level of smartphone compatibility with PS-Mobile.

It's just an available route that Sony can take. What they are doing right now clearly isn't working.
 
DC1

DC1

Member
NotLiquid said:
The idea with Vita Remote Play is to be able to play your PS4 games at any place where there's Wi-Fi and assuming you're leaving your console on.

While this does sound great in theory I have severe doubts of it's viability.
Click to expand...
Why?
I could do this with some titles through my psp.
Further the PS4 is always in either an On or persistent sleep mode.
 
J

jcm

Member
I missed the whole thread, so maybe this stuff has already been posted, but heres some YOY and Gen over gen comparisons:

Code: 
Year Over Year               
             2013     2012     % Change
360           140      257     -45.53%
PS3           108      192     -43.75%
WIU            42 
WII            53       95     -44.21%
3DS           225      155      45.16%
NDS                    150    
PSV            27       75     -64.00%
PSP                     25     
               
Family               
MSFT          140      257     -45.53%
SONY          135      292     -53.77%
NINT          320      400     -20.00%
                
HAND          252      405     -37.78%
CONSOLE       343      544     -36.95%
               
Gen over Gen               
Console      2013     2006     % Change
360                    277     
PS2                    312     
XBX                     24     
GCN                     51     
TOTAL         343      664     -48.34%
               
Handheld     2013     2007     % Change
NDS                    561     
PSP                    290     
GBA                    113     
Total         252      964     -73.86%

PS2 was a beast, current gen should have ended a year ago, and dedicated handheld market has cratered.
 
Wiktor

Wiktor

Member
SmokyDave said:
I can't say as I agree. The numbers don't lie. You've lowered your expectations is all.
Click to expand...

Numers are very good. And my expectations are just that: enough to keep japanese devs pumping great games for 3DS. because I like those games and many of those devs can't really survive on home consoles and they won't survive on mobile either.

Now, I don't expect handheld market to ever produce a phenomenom like DS was. But at the same time all the doomsayers who claimed mobile would kill handheld market were proved to be wrong. The market just contracted to Gameboy Advance levels and it;s mostly casual users who drifted away to mobile
 
R

rjc571

Banned
Mpl90 said:
When you see a title like PxZ doing something like that in 11-12 days, and a Castlevania doing 33k in more than a month, something's wrong. But not with the console, I mean not only with the console, and not mainly with the console.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you're driving at here. Castlevania bombed because it's a terrible game. I don't see how this is evidence of something being "wrong". Actually, the fact that a (high quality) niche game like PXZ can outsell a (terrible excuse for a) Castlevania game proves that the 3DS audience is a lot more savvy than the typical consumer, which can only be considered a good thing.
 
M

Massa

Member
DaBoss said:
Why would it be saved with that? Most indie games come out on PC (most Vita indie games are ports as of now, but I know that will change) and then there is the odd exclusive.

Handheld market has shrunk. Why would a handheld indie machine do well? How would people find out about the games? Marketing is the weakest link for indie games. It's wishful thinking to think indie games can help the Vita sell.
Click to expand...

The current scenario is that indie games sell better on PC, AAA games sell better on consoles, but another way of looking at it is that indie games have tremendous room for growth on consoles. The PS3 and 360 have been pretty hostile environments for indie developers.

Sony is clearly betting on this. If they're right it will be a major push for PS4 and will help the Vita as well.
 
I

iLLmAtlc

Member
I think based on the wording we can guess that last of us was between 700 and 850k. It was clear to emphasize it was 2nd first party game but not overall. Approx 850k was the confirmed number for ffxiii
 
S

sense

Member
iLLmAtlc said:
I think based on the wording we can guess that last of us was between 700 and 850k. It was clear to emphasize it was 2nd first party game but not overall. Approx 850k was the confirmed number for ffxiii
Click to expand...

we already have the number from creamsugar and it is 985k. with digital it probably surpassed god of war 3 as the best ps3 debut in US
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
metalslimer said:
Yeah if sony gets every AAA franchise in gaming vita will be fine. Too bad the chances of this are about 0%. Sony would have to pay the entire development for these games losing them hundreds of millions. Its not happening. But we've been playing the same game waiting from conference for big games since the thing was revealed. At some point the facts just become they arent coming
Click to expand...

Only if many of those titles are both mainline and Vita-exclusive. I think even this underestimates just how little interest Sony's primary Western target demographic (males ~17-35) has in dedicated handheld gaming these days.
 
K

kswiston

Member
iLLmAtlc said:
I think based on the wording we can guess that last of us was between 700 and 850k. It was clear to emphasize it was 2nd first party game but not overall. Approx 850k was the confirmed number for ffxiii
Click to expand...

Final Fantasy XIII was not even close to being the largest third party opener. Black Ops opened to over 3M copies on the PS3 back in Nov 2010.

As confirmed previous, The Last of Us opened to 985k, plus whatever it sold digitally.
 
J

jcm

Member
AdrianWerner said:
Now, I don't expect handheld market to ever produce a phenomenom like DS was. But at the same time all the doomsayers who claimed mobile would kill handheld market were proved to be wrong. The market just contracted to Gameboy Advance levels and it;s mostly casual users who drifted away to mobile
Click to expand...

Contracting by 75% is pretty fucking bad. I think the doomsayers are pretty well vindicated. We've reached a point where it's good news that the 3DS is selling worse than the PSP did in the US.
 
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