Support NeoGAF

[Toothless Spoon]

I kinda liked Heavy rain - but I hate the quasi QTE's - hence why I don't like the Walking dead or The wolf Among Us - I don't really feel I'm apart of the game.

 

[shinobi602]

Heavy rain is the worst game I've ever played.

You haven't played many games then. Worst? Come on.

Atrocious writing, horrific voice acting,

Words a little harsher than what I use, but I will say the voice acting was bad.

constant crashes/control bugs, ugly as fuck,

I experienced no crashes...that's weird. And ugly? It's one of the best looking games on the PS3 on a technical basis. Characters have an insane amount of detail in them and the environments look great...

 

[dragonbane]

Instead, since Cage runs QD, we're stuck with his shitty 'vision' for these games.

His vision is good enough. The execution suffers a bit, because he is a one man army doing everything. Which is why he is getting help on his next project, so he has less work and more time to deliver quality.

A sequel to Omikron would definitely interest me. In my opinion Quantic Dream's best game,no question.

It might be happening. The working title and job postings on their website certainly indicate sci-fi. Open positions for AI programmers might indicate open world crowd programming.

I liked it quite a bit (not as much as Heavy Rain, but it was a decent Quantic Dream experience worth my $60). A friend of mine went to trade in his copy and only got $15 for it. I wonder if they're already cutting the price? If so, it's a damn shame. The game really does deserve better.

DAT username

 

[famousmortimer]

Knew it. Too many signs. Will look awesome and might consider buying a PS4 for it.

I just heard about it today. Not sure I need to replay it but when it comes out (no clue on date... was told there were going to be "A lot" of last gen in '14) I will decide. Or I'll do like I plan on with tomb raider (which i played on the pc maxed so the graphics won't blow me away).... I'll wait for a sale.


Though, that said, I fucking have Injustice Ultimate edition on the ps4....

 

[JLeack]

Being different doesnt mean good.

Beyond relies heavily on it's story, and the delivery isn't very good.

 

[Son of Cervantes]

His vision is good enough.

I completely disagree.

 

[dragonbane]

I just heard about it today. Not sure I need to replay it but when it comes out (no clue on date... was told there were going to be "A lot" of last gen in '14) I will decide. Or I'll do like I plan on with tomb raider (which i played on the pc maxed so the graphics won't blow me away).... I'll wait for a sale.

Yeah depends on price and effort they put in. Considering they ported the Beyond engine a year ago just for the Sorcerer demo bodes well. And I also knew that was bullshit, port the engine but not the game? Yeah right. The co-CEO was also very dodgy about it on twitter. Finally there is this. Unless it was a coincidence to fill his resume, this programmer on Beyond pretty much confirmed it by showing a PS4 program filled with input code from Beyond.

I completely disagree.

Vision = premise (for me). Follow a female protagonist over 15 years of her life who is attached to an invisible entity and see how the world affects her while she grows up? Pretty awesome and unique vision IMO with a lot of possibilities gameplay and storywise. Execution on that vision is another matter entirely and where he definitely needs help (which he is getting going forward).

 

[Card Boy]

I will be grabbing this soon it's pretty cheap too.

Unrelated to Beyond Two Souls but i'm still fucken upset people ruined the origami killers identity of Heavy Rain before launch, i have no desire to ever play it.

 

[Son of Cervantes]

Vision = premise (for me). Follow a female protagonist over 15 years of her life who is attached to an invisible entity and see how the world affects her while she grows up? Pretty awesome and unique vision IMO with a lot of possibilities gameplay and storywise. Execution on that vision is another matter entirely and where he definitely needs help (which he is getting going forward).

Oh, the premise is interesting. But for me, vision includes the execution, which Cage had complete control over, and which played out like a mediocre SF miniseries that somehow managed to get a ridiciulously huge budget.

Lousy scripting, horrible characterizations, piss-poor dialogue...just a horribly painful experience.

 

[Silurus]

Loved Heavy Rain and loved Beyond nearly as much.

I prefered the who-done-it story to Heave Rain more that's all.

 

[dragonbane]

Oh, the premise is interesting. But for me, vision includes the execution, which Cage had complete control over, and which played out like a mediocre SF miniseries that somehow managed to get a ridiciulously huge budget.

Lousy scripting, horrible characterizations, piss-poor dialogue...just a horribly painful experience.

Fair enough. You have every right to be disappointed, since you spend money on it. Just know that Cage tries to improve. It's hard to get native English writers to move to Paris and live there (since they have to be on site for at least 3 years making the game). Their pedigree wasn't strong enough to get anything meaningful going and outsourcing doesn't work for a game like this. After Heavy Rain, which was a smash success, a lot of writers and other developers from the USA got interested in the studio and considered moving over to Paris to work on a game. Two did. They now work on the PS4 project (since the story for Beyond was finished in 2010) and help Cage to focus more on vision, ideas, directing the studio and actors (things he does well) and less writing.

 

[Kagutaba]

But even taken as a movie it's better than most of what's come out in theaters this year. It joins Heavy Rain as one of the few games to make me cry.

Holy fuck, No.

David Cage is a hack. And here is some movies released this year:

Gravity (directed by Alfonso Cuarón, who made Children of Men)
Her
Nebraska
12 Years a Slave
Prisoners
Behind the Candelabra
Spring Breakers
Blue Jasmin (directed by Woody Allen, who is Woody Allen)

If Beyond: Two Souls made you cry, any of these movies will launch you into an eight year depression/orgasm.

 

[Zen]

There were hundreds of films released this year, dude, cherry picking your favorites isn't a rebuttal to what he said. Jesus.

 

[Alienous]

Perhaps Heavy Rain deserved less sales.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Taken as a movie it's completely awful. There's no sense of pace, the story is spliced in random out of order scenes each one utterly disconnected from the rest. Several moronic, nonsensical moments.

He was trying to be clever, near the end Jodie even says that she is trying to recall the story in her head and it's all jumbled up and out of sequence.

My PS3 melted so I watched a non-commentary Let's Play and I really enjoyed the story.

 

[co1onel]

No game ever deserves more sales than it gets, if it hasn't sold enough it clearly has inherent flaws.

I can't agree with this. Lack of hardware sales can often lead to good games getting little attention. Such is the fate of Tearaway.

 

[Kagutaba]

There were hundreds of films released this year, dude, cherry picking your favorites isn't a rebuttal to what he said. Jesus.

It's hardly feasible to post a list of hundreds of movies is it? And cherry picking or no, Beyond: Two Souls is much much closer to hot garbage than it's to "better than most of what's come out this in theatres this year".

 

[Razgreez]

I've been playing this chapter by chapter once or twice a week so it's taken me quite some time to complete but i've really enjoyed what i've completed thus far. Things like

Spoiler

having the choice to get revenge on those kids and even the extent to which you could exact revenge i.e. mess with them a little, not at all or seriously damage them psychologically - was a really decent touch for example

.

Can't see why some have such disdain for the Navajo section neither

 

[Seance]

I can't take all these dumb game stories any more. Whatever the story is for Titanfall or Destiny, I can guarantee you it's going to be DOG-STUPID. I will have pretty much SEEN IT BEFORE. And it will have very little to do with LIFE AS WE KNOW IT.

wut? lmao

And to put such importance on story and then praise David Cage written games?


I'm not sure if you're for real.

 

[Kagutaba]

wut? lmao

And to put such importance on story and then praise David Cage written games?


I'm not sure if you're for real.

Sshh! (He is David Cage.)

 

[Dueck]

I found the game to be very dull. If I hadn't played it for free, I'd have been pissed. I liked everything in Heavy Rain except some voices, Beyond was the opposite: some of the voices were all I liked.

I respect that others enjoyed it, but it was a sorry game.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

I understand people's criticisms of the game. But even taken as a movie it's better than most of what's come out in theaters this year.

If the writing is anywhere near the level of quality shown in Heavy Rain, then a hearty LOL to this.

 

[dragonbane]

It's hardly feasible to post a list of hundreds of movies is it? And cherry picking or no, Beyond: Two Souls is much much closer to hot garbage than it's to "better than most of what's come out this in theatres this year".

The majority of movies are also closer to garbage than great. You can't imagine how many shitty movies get released every year (in theatres too). Your head automatically discards most of them on first sight probably.

 

[Moon_frogger]

It's too niche. Not enough shootbang or marketing. Gta v deserved a lot of sales. This is highly polarizing, unclassifable niche of a game. It was always going to be a hard sell, ellen page or no.

Also, 'better than most movies' is hardly a fair metric and in this case maybe not even true. It'd be much easier to come up with a list of films from this year that were better than 'most 2013 game stories' at any rate. Pure silliness.

 

[creyas]

Let's pretend that Beyond will be on the ps4.


Yep.

Why did i order it yesterday.

Spoiler

Thanks, OP.

At least i'll have motivation to play through it somewhat soon.

 

[Kagutaba]

The majority of movies are also closer to garbage than great. You can't imagine how many shitty movies get released every year (in theatres too). Your head automatically discards most of them on first sight probably.

Probably true. But, I still think the difference between the writing in your average movie and a David Cage game is staggering.

 

[Zen]

It's hardly feasible to post a list of hundreds of movies is it? And cherry picking or no, Beyond: Two Souls is much much closer to hot garbage than it's to "better than most of what's come out this in theatres this year".

Opinions how do they work. You don't get to completely malign what he said just so you can play the part of Don Quixote

 

[CheisGuy]

Anyone defending this game is probably David Cage sitting behind his computer typing feverishly with his multiple accounts.

Spoiler

It's actually decent I enjoyed it

 

[Redx508]

I got it Day1 and is one of my top game of the yr. Heavy rain is also a good game Can't wait to see what he can do with the PS4

Opinion

 

[hesido]

I didn't play this game, but I liked Heavy Rain. I used to play games before we had a baby. Now I'm just browsing NeoGAF.

I'm sad that this game, which looks to be better than Heavy Rain, and is seems much costlier to produce, is not making as much money. I hope this doesn't put QD between a rock and a hard place, having to cancel their projects, and can go on to produce their ambitious titles on PS4.

 

[hesido]

No game ever deserves more sales than it gets, if it hasn't sold enough it clearly has inherent flaws.

That's quite an oversimplification. Surely, there are games that get more sales than they deserve due to good - controlled media exposure and herd mentality (all my friends are getting it, so I should not be left out), and there are games that get less than what they deserve due to lack of publicity, wrong publisher decisions etc., and these are all opinions of course.

edit: sorry for double post.

 

[Kagutaba]

Opinions how do they work. You don't get to completely malign what he said just so you can play the part of Don Quixote

Lets cut through the bullshit, shall we. If he thinks David Cage is a good writer then he should try watching a movie, because he must have missed all of them.

Have you seen a movie?

 

[Bedlam]

The homeless people and the Native American's are in a couple of the longest chapters, but that's it.

I think these scenes are easily rock bottom, character-wise (actual rock bottom in the game is

Spoiler

"fighting" tentacle monsters as Aiden

; edit: or

Spoiler

the whole military chapter... both the training and the mission

).

The forced moral preaching in the homeless chapter was unbearable. And where did that love story in the Navajo chapter suddenly come from? That was hilariously bad.

I don't hate David Cage btw. I just think he is a very bad writer. And seemingly in an attempt to justify the monicker "game" for his products, he insists on putting in an avalanche of superfluous QTE sequences. He needs to trim the fat and concentrate on organic gameplay (exploration, decision making, conversations etc) as opposed to filling the screen with button prompts at every chance.

 

[Amir0x]

I just heard about it today. Not sure I need to replay it but when it comes out (no clue on date... was told there were going to be "A lot" of last gen in '14) I will decide. Or I'll do like I plan on with tomb raider (which i played on the pc maxed so the graphics won't blow me away).... I'll wait for a sale.


Though, that said, I fucking have Injustice Ultimate edition on the ps4....

They're bringing Beyond to PS4? Ugh. Where's Last of Us PS4?

 

[Son of Cervantes]

Fair enough. You have every right to be disappointed, since you spend money on it. Just know that Cage tries to improve. It's hard to get native English writers to move to Paris and live there (since they have to be on site for at least 3 years making the game). Their pedigree wasn't strong enough to get anything meaningful going and outsourcing doesn't work for a game like this. After Heavy Rain, which was a smash success, a lot of writers and other developers from the USA got interested in the studio and considered moving over to Paris to work on a game. Two did. They now work on the PS4 project (since the story for Beyond was finished in 2010) and help Cage to focus more on vision, ideas, directing the studio and actors (things he does well) and less writing.

Scriptwriters don't necessarily have to live and work in Paris. If Cage is going the Hollywood route, he should know that. Hollywood screenwriters like William Goldman live in New York and send their work via mail or fax. At the very least, Cage could have hired a competent screenwriter just to give his massive script a pass (at certain points, you can really tell it was written by someone for whom English isn't their first language - someone who thinks Americans speak in a series of movie cliches).

From what I've read about Cage, writing is actually his favorite part of the process and the reason he does these games, so I don't think Quantic Dreams' new projects will be any different. They'll always be hobbled by his limited talent. He should ideally be a concept guy and then hire a team of really talented creators and let them loose with the concept - but he will never do that, because he "loves writing." Look up his interviews, he's said it numerous times.

I just wish I'd known what a godawful writer he was before picking up Beyond. I have nothing against cinematic or story-heavy video games, hell, Walking Dead was one of my favorite games last year..but I do have something against bad/cliched writing.

 

[Imbarkus]

I am no more David Cage than I am Denis Dyack. I do, however, have a knack for coming out in support of people that the Groupthink here disdains.

Lets cut through the bullshit, shall we. If he thinks David Cage is a good writer then he should try watching a movie, because he must have missed all of them.

Have you seen a movie?

Movies released this year that I saw:

Dark Skies
Evil Dead
Jurassic Park 3D
Iron Man 3
Star Trek Into Darkness
Epic
This is the End
Man of Steel
World War z
Pacific Rim
Ender's Game
Thor: the Dark World
The Hunger Games: Cacthing Fire

As you can see I tend to favor horror and/or big-budget releases that, for me justify the high cost of tickets seeing the show in a theater.

I thought it went without saying that Beyond and its story would best be compared to other big-budget Hollywood efforts with sci-fi and action influences.

So, for the record, Beyond is not better written than 12 years a Slave or most of the movies you named. It is better written than most of the movies I named.

I think these scenes are easily rock bottom, character-wise (actual rock bottom in the game is

Spoiler

"fighting" tentacle monsters as Aiden

; edit: or

Spoiler

the whole military chapter... both the training and the mission

).

The forced moral preaching in the homeless chapter was unbearable. And where did that love story in the Navajo chapter suddenly come from? That was hilariously bad.

I found no forced moral preaching in the homeless chapter, one of the best chapters of the game. Instead I found one of the most personally significant choices in the game. I found some of the best acting in the production from the guy who played Stan. I kept walking until I found the guy with the guitar...

And the Navajo chapter doesn't bother me either. Jodie is dealing directly with the spirits. Makes sense to me she would have to do a spirit-walk or go through some sort of transformative experience to move her from feeling powerless in the face of the other world, to empowered.

 

[PooBone]

I understand people's criticisms of the game. But even taken as a movie it's better than most of what's come out in theaters this year. It joins Heavy Rain as one of the few games to make me cry.

My source is likely bullshit, but is saying Beyond has sold about 1/4 the number of copies of Heavy Rain. That's just a tragedy. Definitely a better game, better controls, better story, better acting and voice. Better everything.

Why didn't you buy it?

I bought and enjoyed Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain. I rented Beyond: Two Souls first and I'm glad I did. I thought it was a mess of an excuse for "storytelling" and a definite regression from Heavy Rain. Not sure where this studio goes from here on out, but Beyond: Two Souls was a not good game with really good acting, and the story/writing were BAD.

 

[ROBOKITTYZILLA]

I picked it up on Black Friday when it was $34. I was pretty apathetic to this release compared to Heavy Rain, and I actually liked Heavy Rain quite a bit. I'm looking forward to playing it but the hype just wasn't there for me at release.

Let's pretend that Beyond will be on the ps4.


Yep.

Welp. I guess I'll just wait for the PS4 release. I'll hang onto my PS3 copy just in case though.

 

[dragonbane]

Probably true. But, I still think the difference between the writing in your average movie and a David Cage game is staggering.

True. Which is why I rather compare it to TV shows like Fringe, since the volume is more comparable. Sure there are a lot of TV shows out there as well (especially recently) that blast Beyond in every way, but some of them have episodes that wouldn't be completely out of place in a game like Beyond. And a lot of people enjoy those, just saying.

Scriptwriters don't necessarily have to live and work in Paris. If Cage is going the Hollywood route, he should know that. Hollywood screenwriters like William Goldman live in New York and send their work via mail or fax. At the very least, Cage could have hired a competent screenwriter just to give his massive script a pass (at certain points, you can really tell it was written by someone for whom English isn't their first language - someone who thinks Americans speak in a series of movie cliches).

A game is different from a movie. Much more writing work over a bigger period of time. Outsourcing game writing has only resulted in shit stories so far e.g. Crysis 2. Changes need to be made constantly and the writers need to ensure that their vision holds up in gameplay and every other department. Especially when you deal with multiple branches. So no, having the writers in-house is the best option. Sure, Cage loves writing, but he still said he WILL hire other writers and he WILL write less from this point on. I can link you the twitter profiles of both of them if you want. It's not a scam or anything, they work at Quantic since 2012. Do you think they just sit on their ass and watch Cage writing all day?

Speaking of cliches. You sure you like TWD that much? Because it's one big cliche. The black guy Lee who seems nice, but has actually murdered a white senator and every other white dude gets suspicious at him? Kenny, a redneck straight from the cliche box, who is constantly mad at you and acts like an asshole? The ultimate badass Molly aka Tomb Raider who saves everyone and parkours over buildings? The teenager whose only purpose in the story is to fuck everything up and act like a naive idiot all the time?

Yeah. On top of that the game contains every possible zombie trope you can think of and the writers shamelessly exploit them. TWD has much better writing than Beyond overall I agree, but in terms of cliches it isn't much better.

The forced moral preaching in the homeless chapter was unbearable.

Easily my favourite scene. Utterly amazing

 

[zackmorris]

65 euros is quite a bit of money for a movie. Aside from that I didn't buy it because I loathe Heavy Rain.

It's also about 5 times longer than an average movie

 

[NeoGiff]

Hey I don't really know you at all, but your post seems to be an example of a lot of venomous condescending hate all up in this thread, particularly directed at Cage.

Why is that?

It's not aimed at you personally or anyone else in the thread, so I apologise if it appeared that way. Bad first impression!

I just don't believe Cage lives up to this "auteur" image he holds of himself, in any way. In my opinion his games hold a perfect example of writing at its worst.

To be fair, I haven't played through Beyond and thus experienced it firsthand, so I digress slightly, but from what I have seen, it's more of the usual from Cage, which doesn't appeal to me and is undeserved of the praise it gets from people.

 

[aeolist]

the idea of david cage as an auteur is hilarious to me

even if he wasn't a completely incompetent writer and director, the material he works with is the most mainstream big-budget hollywood schlock you'll ever see

high-brow cinema this is not

 

[jonjondotcom1312]

I watched a bit of the game on youtube, but it just felt like I was watching every cliched Hollywood movie all mixed into one. Not interested.

There are much better games with MUCH better stories on offer.

I think it's cooler when you play it because it gives you a stronger sense of ownership and immersion. In other games, you don't have the same level of non-verbal communication or dialogue as other characters. In this game you play a character in this movie that you direct along the way. Your character isn't some toneless avatar jumping and punching your way through; she responds organically to new stresses and stimulations.

Seems like a really decisive genre/director and some people don't get it - just don't be someone who purposefully doesn't get it

 

[jonjondotcom1312]

the idea of david cage as an auteur is hilarious to me

even if he wasn't a completely incompetent writer and director, the material he works with is the most mainstream big-budget hollywood schlock you'll ever see

high-brow cinema this is not

>implying directing a video game is the same as directing film.

 

[Bedlam]

Easily my favourite scene. Utterly amazing

It was the most cringe-inducing stuff I have seen in years (both in movies and games). It's all extremely shallow and forced ... just terrible, terrible writing.

I'm sorry but I have to question the standards of everyone who calls this shit "utterly amazing." smh

And the Navajo chapter doesn't bother me either. Jodie is dealing directly with the spirits. Makes sense to me she would have to do a spirit-walk or go through some sort of transformative experience to move her from feeling powerless in the face of the other world, to empowered.

I wasn't talking about the cliched spirit stuff. I was talking about the younger brother with whom she apparently is about to fall in love after talking to him for about 2 minutes in a totally non-romantic way. That emotional farewell scene comes totally out of the blue. It's hilarious. And so is his the fact that he appears in the ending.

I bought it. One of my favorite games ever. I don't understand how people can praise shit like The Last of Us, or The Walking Dead (Telltale) but ignore this game. I just don't get it..

There are worlds between the writing and the acting in TLoU/TWD and in Beyond. Yes, especially TLoU did a much better job with the characters and their performances.

 

[aeolist]

>implying directing a video game is the same as directing film.

what does this have to do with what i said?

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

I bought it. One of my favorite games ever. I don't understand how people can praise shit like The Last of Us, or The Walking Dead (Telltale) but ignore this game. I just don't get it.

Had a really fantastic story, and probably the best voice acting/acting of the year, easily. Good OST too. For me, it was easily the best game story, and dialogue/writing of the year. It was honestly one of my favorite Willem Dafoe roles ever. His character was just a very cool, likable guy.

Cage made huge strides in gameplay with this too. The whole somalia mission level blew me away. It plays almost like a mix of adventure/point and click, with rhythm games, with TPS, with stealth, and it somehow works.

The game definitely has flaws, but at least its ambitious, and without a doubt, going for something original.

Mind expounding on why these games are shit?

 

[dragonbane]

the idea of david cage as an auteur is hilarious to me

even if he wasn't a completely incompetent writer and director, the material he works with is the most mainstream big-budget hollywood schlock you'll ever see

high-brow cinema this is not

Quality of the work has nothing to do with the auteur theory. While his writing qualities are highly debatable, he seems to be a pretty good director, because he is one of the few that actually gets shit done and Quantic is renowned for always releasing on time and on budget, which is the rare exception these days. It's why the studio exists since 16 years and has over 200 employees. If you think accomplishing this don't require any kind of qualities as a director you are delusional. Even if it is just the ability to sell your products.

 

[aeolist]

Quality of the work has nothing to do with the auteur theory. While his writing qualities are highly debatable, he seems to be a pretty good director, because he is one of the few that actually gets shit done and Quantic is renewed for always releasing on time and on budget, which is the rare exception these days. It's why the studio exists since 16 years and has over 200 employees. If you think accomplishing this don't require any kind of qualities as a director you are delusional. Even if it is just the ability to sell your products.

that means he's a good producer

a good director would be putting out quality work

 

[Bedlam]

he seems to be a pretty good director, because he is one of the few that actually gets shit done

Uwe Boll gets shit done too. Great director.

You do have a point though. Cage is good at getting his projects done and QD seems to be a well functioning studio with a lot of talent as far as visuals go. It's a shame that it's all going to waste because Cage insists on doing the writing himself. As others have said, he should be the concept guy in the background, the producer, and leave the actual work on individual parts to people who are actually good at what they do. Cage wouldn't do the character modelling by himself either, would he? Now he just needs to accept that it's his writing that constantly damages his games.