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[Arion]

Microsoft will always strive to exert as much control as possible over anything - it's just in their bones.

Until they understand and accept that developers know what is best for their game and their audience, Microsoft will always be behind on this front. It is not MS's job to make all Xbox One owners feel "first class," it is the developer's job to make their current and potential customers feel that way.

SCEA bends over backwards for their devs and lets them try things and bend TRCs all over the place, because they trust that devs know what is best for their game.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/22/7040253/skullgirls-encore-ps4-supports-ps3-arcade-sticks-madcatz

See this? It goes against a lot of Sony TRCs, but they believed it was the right thing to do for the consumer and let us push ahead on it. And we talked to a ton of devs at PlayStation Experience that were excited that we'd give them code to support old peripherals on PS4.

Based on my experiences with MS, there is no way they would allow us to do something similar for Xbox One. It took two months to get a patch larger than 32 megs for the 360 version approved, because it had to be arbitrated on by some dark council. And this is a much bigger deal than something like that.

And we totally would if they'd let us.

Did you talk to Ono about it?

 

[Prototype Viktor]

.

do what you gotta do! Just give me Cook Serve on PS4

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Edit:
https://twitter.com/AbsintheGames/status/542059956124389376

47 new PS4 games revealed since September, and ONE of them were announced for XB1

 

[xtradi]

I thought of that, but it still doesn't make sense. Even if that is the reasoning, it's obviously not working, and hasn't been for at least a year (since the new consoles were released). Given the discrepancy in both games announced and games already released, Microsoft should realize it's not working by now, which means they should, at the very least, be taking steps to reverse this policy. Instead though, we got Phil Spencer doubling down on it with his "First class" comments just a few months ago. It just seems really counter-intuitive, even if this is what they're trying to do.

Well you know what else that is not working : the Original Mattrick and Spencer's Vision of XboxOne. Lots of problem with XboxOne and this is the one that still need fixing.

 

[NumberThree]

I think the title is misleading, it makes it sound like there were 47 titles revealed for PS4 none of which are coming to XB1 (0% of titles coming to XB1). Instead there were 66 titles revealed for PS4, 47 of which aren't coming (or announced as coming) to XB1 (~30% of titles coming to XB1).

But still, MS really needs to do something about this. MS wants people not to feel like second class citizens because they're getting games later than other platforms, so instead MS makes people feel like they bought the wrong console because they're not getting those games at all.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

47 new PS4 games revealed since September, and ONE of them were announced for XB1

Pretty sure it's 48 if you include that game.

 

[Tash]

I think another issue is all the additional technical requirements to develop a game for Xbox One compared to PS4 (or any other platform, for that matter)..

 

[Panajev2001a]

Microsoft will always strive to exert as much control as possible over anything - it's just in their bones.

Until they understand and accept that developers know what is best for their game and their audience, Microsoft will always be behind on this front. It is not MS's job to make all Xbox One owners feel "first class," it is the developer's job to make their current and potential customers feel that way.

SCEA bends over backwards for their devs and lets them try things and bend TRCs all over the place, because they trust that devs know what is best for their game.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/22/7040253/skullgirls-encore-ps4-supports-ps3-arcade-sticks-madcatz

See this? It goes against a lot of Sony TRCs, but they believed it was the right thing to do for the consumer and let us push ahead on it. And we talked to a ton of devs at PlayStation Experience that were excited that we'd give them code to support old peripherals on PS4.

Based on my experiences with MS, there is no way they would allow us to do something similar for Xbox One. It took two months to get a patch larger than 32 megs for the 360 version approved, because it had to be arbitrated on by some dark council. And this is a much bigger deal than something like that.

And we totally would if they'd let us.

The work you guys did on this driver just earned you a sale... and I do not own a fighting stick . I do want to support you guys for making this driver and licensing it free of charge. I also want to congratulate Sony for allowing this to happen, smart choice!

 

[shouamabane]

MS's politics in this area hurt everybody. It's pretty plain to see.

 

[SapientWolf]

I'm having trouble understanding how this is at all appropriate for this thread (and not a load of wank).

MrDanger88 says that indie games aren't worth it on the current gen consoles unless they are free on PSN. But I'm arguing that indie games have even more value on the current gen consoles right now because there aren't thousands of PS4 games yet like there are on the PC. Especially in genres that don't have a lot of competition. In fact, the majority of games at the Playstation Experience were indie games. MS couldn't hold a similar event with XBox One exclusives even if they wanted to. They don't have enough to fill a show floor of that size.

The massive gap in indie support is a large reason why I own a PS4, and why I have no desire to purchase an XBox One. I used my XBox 360 primarily for XBLA. I know the mainstream isn't as enthusiastic but I don't see how the current indie situation is helping MS.

 

[Rymuth]

Went to sleep around page 11. Woke up and headed straight to check on tnis thread.

What ever happened to this? Seems like they just stopped talking about it

It was one of those 'BAD 180s' that Phil Spencer did and yet conviently gets ignored whenever the subject of how well he turned tne Xbox division around. As far as I know, there was a topic on Reddit where they said they dropped it.

 

[ShogunDarius]

yeah I have to agree this clause helps no one and just makes Microsoft look bullheaded again

 

[AntiFacebook]

Since the launch of the XB1, MS has revised that policy for the worse. Now that loophole is closed, and devs are not allowed to release an XB1 version of their game, period, if they have already released it on PS4. At the time of the indie parity announcement, MS allowed games that were already announced for PS4 to be released at a later date on XB1. Those games included Contrast, Warframe, and many other PS4 launch window titles. There are now no more titles that fall under this loophole.

There are three ways around this clause. The first is to release your game simultaneously on PS4 and XB1. The second is to launch first on XB1 and release a PS4 version later. Finally, the third is asking Phil Spencer for a free pass, which has NDA'd guidelines and specifics that I cannot get into, nor know the specifics of.

Lol,they got some nerve.
As I see it, MS need those indie games on their system much more than the devs.
Personally I don't care - The humble bundles and steam deals make buying indie games for any other platform than PC not worthwhile, but it's a stupid policy.

 

[Razlo]

Sign me up as a concerned publisher as well.

At PLAYISM, we are starting from this year to bring some of our higher qualityJapanese indie games to consoles on top of our PC releases.

Now, we have been in talks with Microsoft Japan and are hoping to get some wiggle room for our content. But yeah, right now we have about 6 games announced for PS platforms, and nothing for Xbox One.

Some of our developers want to support both platforms, but the current situation just makes that very difficult.

And it is even harder as the local market is obviously something very important to them, and with the sales of Xbox One in Japan it makes it even harder to justify supporting the platform from their perspective.

I didn't know you guys had this in the works. That's great news.

 

[JaggedSac]

https://twitter.com/ID_Xbox/status/542143333263351811
https://twitter.com/ID_Xbox/status/542143710046072832

Chubs, I think this is for you, lol.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Can anyone point me to ONE indie Dev that finds the parity clause helpful to them?

I know there are plenty that are neutral on it, but how does it HELP anyone?

 

[petran79]

Don't have any data but from what I gather SCEJA finally removed its thumb from its ass and started being more open.
A few Indies have also been getting physical prints. I'm hunting for on in specific, a doujin game from Zenith Blue

Mitsurugi Kamui Hikae
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xG112CCu_s


That's one that I need...already bought it on Playism and Steam but having it on PS4 would rock.
But yes, this year SCEJA has seen more open with Indies. Jebus knows that they need them.

EDIT2: Actually when I think about it wasn't it during 2013s TGS stream they started courting the indies?
They had one with Playism and a few others there? Not sure as I didn't watch the thing. Work killed that chance. Work also killed Bitsummit for me

Astebreed
La-Mulana
Are two of the games I know are making it west. Also Hoping that these make it over
One Way Heroics
Unholy Heights
Kero Blaster
Magical Battle Festa
Helen's Mysterious Castle
Rime Berta
Armored HUnter Gunhound EX
Bunny Must Die
Remastered Ether Vapor
DulDol
And these are only the ones I tried out
@Thetrin If you see this....please please

EDIT1: I actually made an OT for it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=712444&highlight=

kinda disappointed no gifs has come out for this game yet . One or two Skyrim mods though

Thanks for info.
That is good news.
Japan doujin scene is huge. Another ace in sony's pocket if they manage to bring some of those titles on ps4.

 

[mrklaw]

What should it tell me about the policy? Inform me.

Also, if you're going to try to call people out, at least do it right so everyone can see how transparent you are.

Is there some other way I should talk to Lord Phil? Maybe grovel a bit at his feet to show how much I respect him for having a selfish, hateful indie policy?

put yourself forward as an offering to the Xbox gods. Say you'll buy an Xbox one as soon as the parity clause is lifted

 

[Razlo]

Can anyone point me to ONE indie Dev that finds the parity clause helpful to them?

I know there are plenty that are neutral on it, but how does it HELP anyone?

Why would such a quote exist? No developer indie or otherwise likes being restricted in how they do their business. At best I'm sure there's some devs who were going to make multiple versions at the same time anyway, or were going to go to Xbone first regardless, so the restriction doesn't bother them.

 

[mrklaw]

Phil, if you're reading this, drop the clause. People would rather have late ports than none. You aren't Nintendo, this ain't the 80s, one more flip flop won't hurt this early in the Gen.

This is true. When Sony announced Shovel Knight at PSX, I wasnt' thinking 'meh, that was out ages ago on WiiU, why do I want to play it now'. I was thinking 'hell yes, that had amazing impressions on GAF, really looking forward to playing it'

 

[mrklaw]

hopefully they make an exception for you. Skullgirls seems important enough I think

They should. But that doesn't make it better, it just means MS gets to choose what gets published. The entire basis for this started with self-publishing. Take the 'self' out of the picture and you just retain the status quo from a couple of years ago

 

[Man God]

The bananas thing about the parity clause is that not only is XBONE behind the PS4 when it comes to indie releases, it's also behind both the Wii U and Vita as well!

Considering everything else they've reversed track and how aggressive they've been at fixing their issues they would have done something about this.

 

[open_mouth_]

Your efforts are appreciated, OP, really they are, but your pent up energy should be directed elsewhere. Now, I own both next-gen consoles so I can give an unbiased perspective.

This is one policy where a 180 wasn't needed, like, at all. In fact, Microsoft should be applauded for doubling down to save the Xbox One store from getting overrun by indie's sloppy seconds. Consumer's don't really want choice... they want the illusion of choice. They want you to filter out the crap for them and just give them the AAA goods. They want epic online battles in the Master Chief Collection or to go on grand adventures to save Lara Croft from peril or to just sit back and kick it to a beat in Dance Central. Missing out on a few gems that sell 100 or 200k units isn't going to hinder the platform long-term.

Mass market gamers don't want to shovel through pages and pages of game listings, only to accidentally download some 2d sprite based sidescroller that reminds them of the NES days. There's a reason Microsoft hid away as much indie content as they could on the 360 store. It's a page out of Nintendo's book back when they were the dominant power. You don't just let anyone release anything on the platform because the lack of quality control just frustrates gamers and lowers the overall perceived value of every other game. It's a cost-benefit analysis.

For the handful of Xbox One owners who actually care about that sort of thing, they could just wait for a humble bundle sale and buy a dozen games for a buck fifty instead of $14.99 that it would cost for each game on the PS4 store. Then they hook up their PC's hdmi cable to the Xbox One hdmi in, sync their Xbox One controller to their PC, and what do you know, you just saved yourself time, money, and heartbreak. Comfy couch gaming 4 da win. edit: This is about list wars, mainly. My point is the Xbox One has missed out on a lot of indy games so far, but the media consensus is in overwhelming agreement that it still had the better year one library... and that's because of the AAA games (Forzas, SO, Halo, etc.)--not the indies.

 

[Amir0x]

Some were willing to push for change, I think the problem was that a lot of people couldn't see just how bad it would become at that time.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=731218

man reading through my old topic again (it's actually exactly a year old today, damn), I sure was optimistic they would change things :<

 

[Mengy]

Can anyone point me to ONE indie Dev that finds the parity clause helpful to them?

I know there are plenty that are neutral on it, but how does it HELP anyone?

Most likely not. It wasn't designed to help devs, it was designed to help MS achieve market dominance through brute force. It's just failed miserably and backfired, that's all. MS would be wise to get rid of it now that it has proven to be a liability.

 

[dead monkey uk]

This is true. When Sony announced Shovel Knight at PSX, I wasnt' thinking 'meh, that was out ages ago on WiiU, why do I want to play it now'. I was thinking 'hell yes, that had amazing impressions on GAF, really looking forward to playing it'

100% agree, I do not mind waiting for games, but I do mind if I never get to play the game.

 

[thumb]

Your efforts are appreciated, OP, really they are, but your pent up energy should be directed elsewhere. Now, I own both next-gen consoles so if there's anyone qualified to speak on this subject, it's me.

This is one policy where a 180 wasn't needed, like, at all. In fact, Microsoft should be applauded for doubling down to save the Xbox One store from getting overrun by indie's sloppy seconds. Consumer's don't really want choice... they want the illusion of choice. They want you to filter out the crap for them and just give them the AAA goods. They want epic online battles in the Master Chief Collection or to go on grand adventures to save Lara Croft from peril or to just sit back and kick it to a beat in Dance Central.

They don't want to shovel through pages and pages of game listings, only to accidentally download some 2d sprite based sidescroller that reminds them of the NES days. There's a reason Microsoft hid away as much indie content as they could on the 360 store. It's a page out of Nintendo's book back when they were the dominant power. You don't just let anyone release anything on the platform because the lack of quality control just frustrates gamers and lowers the overall perceived value of every other game.

For the handful of Xbox One owners who actually care about that sort of thing, they could just wait for a humble bundle sale and buy a dozen games for a buck fifty instead of $14.99 that it would cost for each game on the PS4 store. Then they hook up their PC's hdmi cable to the Xbox One hdmi in, sync their Xbox One controller to their PC, and what do you know, you just saved yourself time, money, and heartbreak. Comfy couch gaming 4 da win.

Read the OP again, carefully, and note that it actually anticipated your argument. There is no curation happening.

 

[Cess007]

Your efforts are appreciated, OP, really they are, but your pent up energy should be directed elsewhere. Now, I own both next-gen consoles so I can give an unbiased perspective.

This is one policy where a 180 wasn't needed, like, at all. In fact, Microsoft should be applauded for doubling down to save the Xbox One store from getting overrun by indie's sloppy seconds. Consumer's don't really want choice... they want the illusion of choice. They want you to filter out the crap for them and just give them the AAA goods. They want epic online battles in the Master Chief Collection or to go on grand adventures to save Lara Croft from peril or to just sit back and kick it to a beat in Dance Central. Missing out on a few gems that sell 100 or 200k units isn't going to hinder the platform long-term.

Mass market gamers don't want to shovel through pages and pages of game listings, only to accidentally download some 2d sprite based sidescroller that reminds them of the NES days. There's a reason Microsoft hid away as much indie content as they could on the 360 store. It's a page out of Nintendo's book back when they were the dominant power. You don't just let anyone release anything on the platform because the lack of quality control just frustrates gamers and lowers the overall perceived value of every other game. It's a cost-benefit analysis.

For the handful of Xbox One owners who actually care about that sort of thing, they could just wait for a humble bundle sale and buy a dozen games for a buck fifty instead of $14.99 that it would cost for each game on the PS4 store. Then they hook up their PC's hdmi cable to the Xbox One hdmi in, sync their Xbox One controller to their PC, and what do you know, you just saved yourself time, money, and heartbreak. Comfy couch gaming 4 da win.

Now i'm 100% sure you're a parody account

 

[Infernal Monkey]

-Flockers (PS4/XB1 announced on 9/1)

... Team 17's hardly an indie developer. =p Flockers even got a retail release in Europe.

 

[kerotan_eater]

Your efforts are appreciated, OP, really they are, but your pent up energy should be directed elsewhere. Now, I own both next-gen consoles so I can give an unbiased perspective.

This is one policy where a 180 wasn't needed, like, at all. In fact, Microsoft should be applauded for doubling down to save the Xbox One store from getting overrun by indie's sloppy seconds. Consumer's don't really want choice... they want the illusion of choice. They want you to filter out the crap for them and just give them the AAA goods. They want epic online battles in the Master Chief Collection or to go on grand adventures to save Lara Croft from peril or to just sit back and kick it to a beat in Dance Central. Missing out on a few gems that sell 100 or 200k units isn't going to hinder the platform long-term.

Mass market gamers don't want to shovel through pages and pages of game listings, only to accidentally download some 2d sprite based sidescroller that reminds them of the NES days. There's a reason Microsoft hid away as much indie content as they could on the 360 store. It's a page out of Nintendo's book back when they were the dominant power. You don't just let anyone release anything on the platform because the lack of quality control just frustrates gamers and lowers the overall perceived value of every other game. It's a cost-benefit analysis.

For the handful of Xbox One owners who actually care about that sort of thing, they could just wait for a humble bundle sale and buy a dozen games for a buck fifty instead of $14.99 that it would cost for each game on the PS4 store. Then they hook up their PC's hdmi cable to the Xbox One hdmi in, sync their Xbox One controller to their PC, and what do you know, you just saved yourself time, money, and heartbreak. Comfy couch gaming 4 da win.

I don't know if this a joke but if so just pretend I'm addressing this post to just Microsoft.

If Microsoft was worried about quality, then they should create a democratic system by the audience that allows for quality games to rise up to the top, so they get featured.

The shit stays at the bottom. I don't know why that is so hard to create. Have a new section. a rising section and a best of week section, best of the past 6 months section etc, it really can't be that hard.

 

[FDC1]

Your efforts are appreciated, OP, really they are, but your pent up energy should be directed elsewhere. Now, I own both next-gen consoles so I can give an unbiased perspective.

This is one policy where a 180 wasn't needed, like, at all. In fact, Microsoft should be applauded for doubling down to save the Xbox One store from getting overrun by indie's sloppy seconds. Consumer's don't really want choice... they want the illusion of choice. They want you to filter out the crap for them and just give them the AAA goods. They want epic online battles in the Master Chief Collection or to go on grand adventures to save Lara Croft from peril or to just sit back and kick it to a beat in Dance Central. Missing out on a few gems that sell 100 or 200k units isn't going to hinder the platform long-term.

Mass market gamers don't want to shovel through pages and pages of game listings, only to accidentally download some 2d sprite based sidescroller that reminds them of the NES days. There's a reason Microsoft hid away as much indie content as they could on the 360 store. It's a page out of Nintendo's book back when they were the dominant power. You don't just let anyone release anything on the platform because the lack of quality control just frustrates gamers and lowers the overall perceived value of every other game. It's a cost-benefit analysis.

For the handful of Xbox One owners who actually care about that sort of thing, they could just wait for a humble bundle sale and buy a dozen games for a buck fifty instead of $14.99 that it would cost for each game on the PS4 store. Then they hook up their PC's hdmi cable to the Xbox One hdmi in, sync their Xbox One controller to their PC, and what do you know, you just saved yourself time, money, and heartbreak. Comfy couch gaming 4 da win. edit: This is about list wars, mainly. My point is the Xbox One has missed out on a lot of indy games so far, but the media consensus is in overwhelming agreement that it still had the better year one library... and that's because of the AAA games (Forzas, SO, Halo, etc.)--not the indies.

I suppose this is the Xbox version of "Who cares for 3rd party games? I buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games".

 

[Amir0x]

Your efforts are appreciated, OP, really they are, but your pent up energy should be directed elsewhere. Now, I own both next-gen consoles so if there's anyone qualified to speak on this subject, it's me.

do you have any self-awareness at all? Like, any at all? In the first place, who do you think you're fooling with your "I own both systems" nonsense? You think that convinces anyone you're not a lumbering fanboy?

I mean, everything has been covered here - some parts even in the OP - and you still embarrass yourself by showing you've read and internalized NOTHING.

This is one policy where a 180 wasn't needed, like, at all. In fact, Microsoft should be applauded for doubling down to save the Xbox One store from getting overrun by indie's sloppy seconds. Consumer's don't really want choice... they want the illusion of choice. They want you to filter out the crap for them and just give them the AAA goods. They want epic online battles in the Master Chief Collection or to go on grand adventures to save Lara Croft from peril or to just sit back and kick it to a beat in Dance Central.

First, where is the evidence that's what consumers want? Right, you have none. Second, the problem isn't "what consumers want", it's that it's bad fucking policy that is seriously hurting the most vulnerable devs in the industry, as well as XBO-only gamers and Microsoft themselves. Microsoft gets less games and thus less revenue, XBO-only gamers have massively reduced choice (PS4 destroys XBO in rated 80+ metacritic games, oops guess that "curated environment" ain't working), and indie devs have to make hard choices because they're too small to spread themselves as thinly as Microsoft is demanding. So they lose a revenue stream.

On top of that, FROM THE BLOODY OP:

I like that Microsoft is curating indie releases, saving the best for XB1, unlike PS4.

They aren't doing that. There's no curation whatsover, and in fact, they'll accept any game you want to put on the store, same as Sony (as long as it's at a minimum acceptance quality, on par for both PS4 and XB1). The idea that MS is cherry picking games to release on XB1 is completely false.

They aren't curating games, and you're the latest victim in their propaganda campaign. Congratulations, playing companies instead of games really worked out for you!

They don't want to shovel through pages and pages of game listings, only to accidentally download some 2d sprite based sidescroller that reminds them of the NES days. There's a reason Microsoft hid away as much indie content as they could on the 360 store.

This sounds like a personal problem. Who "accidentally" downloads a game? They wouldn't fucking notice from the description, then the screenshots, then the credit card page, then the confirmation page? At that point they deserve whatever game they get. Not that games that "remind them of NES days" are bad or anything, they're frequently awesome.

It's a page out of Nintendo's book back when they were the dominant power. You don't just let anyone release anything on the platform because the lack of quality control just frustrates gamers and lowers the overall perceived value of every other game.

oh you mean the page wherein Nintendo lost the goodwill of all developers to the point where they were all desperate to abandon ship and eagerly took flight with Sony PSOne due to years of abuse and they are still feeling to repercussions from to this day?

yeah, that seems like a smart strategy for Microsoft to follow. And it'll surely work even better from a company who is playing from way back in second place! Brilliant!

For the handful of Xbox One owners who actually care about that sort of thing, they could just wait for a humble bundle sale and buy a dozen games for a buck fifty instead of $14.99 that it would cost for each game on the PS4 store. Then they hook up their PC's hdmi cable to the Xbox One hdmi in, sync their Xbox One controller to their PC, and what do you know, you just saved yourself time, money, and heartbreak. Comfy couch gaming 4 da win.

jesus fuck how transparent can you get?

 

[Montresor]

Indie games are incredibly important. I just finishes Thomas Was Alone on XB1 and it's one of the best games I've ever played in my life. We need more games like that on XB1, and if the launch parity clause is preventing that, then get rid of it.

 

[Night Angel]

Ami, I think you're getting trolled.

Obvious troll post.

Man, I used to think this guy was being serious. These posts are will crafted, but they've crossed the line from being pure examples of Poe's law to being blatant troll posts. Still, 8/10 would read again.

Look over his last few weeks' posts. They've gotten much more out there than in the past.

 

[Amir0x]

Ami, I think you're getting trolled.

from open_mouth_? He used to really believe this shit, did he decide just to go full troll and pretend he doesn't anymore?

Hard to keep up with these things, open_mouth_ is a loooong time Microsoft fanboy.

 

[Montresor]

Also, I would like to know if I'm on the same page as other posters.

There is an unwritten rule for decades for launch parity for retail 3rd party games. Does everyone agree that this is a good thing? No one wants to wait 6 months to play Bioshock Infinite, or Dragon Age Inquisition, right?

I think launch parity is an objectively good thing for consumers, because it allows them to enjoy a game at the same time as other platform holders, with one huge exception: if the devs are indie developers, then you have to forgo the luxury of that "objectively good thing" because it is typically financially unfeasible for a small indie to deliver on that kind of tight release schedule.

 

[TAJ]

Now, I own both next-gen consoles so I can give an unbiased perspective.

lol
People have been trying to use that claim as a license to troll the whole 13 years I've been on GAF and it never gets old.
Bonus points for claiming that it actually makes you unbiased.

 

[open_mouth_]

do you have any self-awareness at all? Like, any at all? In the first place, who do you think you're fooling with your "I own both systems" nonsense? You think that convinces anyone you're not a lumbering fanboy?

If this policy is so blatantly broken and poorly conceived, then why do *you* think Microsoft has stuck with it through the complaints? There's got to be a reason?

I'm thinking that reason is because 1) it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things except for fanboy list wars and 2) there's something to be said about having less clutter in the store. They still get a lot of good indy games... just not every single one.

 

[njr]

Doesn't seem like MS can throw their weight around with policies like this anymore. It did seem like this was prevalent last gen, I did find myself buying smaller titles on XBL rather than PSN because they most likely released first.

 

[Handy Fake]

Your efforts are appreciated, OP, really they are, but your pent up energy should be directed elsewhere. Now, I own both next-gen consoles so I can give an unbiased perspective.

This is one policy where a 180 wasn't needed, like, at all. In fact, Microsoft should be applauded for doubling down to save the Xbox One store from getting overrun by indie's sloppy seconds. Consumer's don't really want choice... they want the illusion of choice. They want you to filter out the crap for them and just give them the AAA goods. They want epic online battles in the Master Chief Collection or to go on grand adventures to save Lara Croft from peril or to just sit back and kick it to a beat in Dance Central. Missing out on a few gems that sell 100 or 200k units isn't going to hinder the platform long-term.

Mass market gamers don't want to shovel through pages and pages of game listings, only to accidentally download some 2d sprite based sidescroller that reminds them of the NES days. There's a reason Microsoft hid away as much indie content as they could on the 360 store. It's a page out of Nintendo's book back when they were the dominant power. You don't just let anyone release anything on the platform because the lack of quality control just frustrates gamers and lowers the overall perceived value of every other game. It's a cost-benefit analysis.

For the handful of Xbox One owners who actually care about that sort of thing, they could just wait for a humble bundle sale and buy a dozen games for a buck fifty instead of $14.99 that it would cost for each game on the PS4 store. Then they hook up their PC's hdmi cable to the Xbox One hdmi in, sync their Xbox One controller to their PC, and what do you know, you just saved yourself time, money, and heartbreak. Comfy couch gaming 4 da win. edit: This is about list wars, mainly. My point is the Xbox One has missed out on a lot of indy games so far, but the media consensus is in overwhelming agreement that it still had the better year one library... and that's because of the AAA games (Forzas, SO, Halo, etc.)--not the indies.

Good God. Somebody find the off switch.

 

[Amir0x]

If this policy is so blatantly broken and poorly conceived, then why do *you* think Microsoft has stuck with it through the complaints? There's got to be a reason?

I'm thinking that reason is because 1) it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things except for fanboy list wars and 2) there's something to be said about having less clutter in the store. They still get a lot of good indy games... just not every single one.

because Microsoft is an asshat sometimes and makes bad policy on occasion?

And they're not curating shit. XBO has a shitload less 80+ metacritic games.

 

[open_mouth_]

because Microsoft is an asshat sometimes and makes bad policy on occasion?

And they're not curating shit. XBO has a shitload less 80+ metacritic games.

and despite this "terrible" policy, Microsoft still had the media consensus stronger 1st year lineup, or did I dream that up? What that tells me is that the indy impact hasn't helped Sony as much as many make it seem around these parts. Sometimes you have to question what's in the things being fed to you.

 

[Amir0x]

and despite this "terrible" policy, Microsoft still had the media consensus stronger 1st year lineup, or did I dream that up? What that tells me is that the indy impact hasn't helped Sony as much as many make it seem around these parts. Sometimes you have to question what's in the things being fed to you.

media consensus stronger 1st year lineup

"indy impact hasn't helped Sony as much as many make it seem"

*point*
your head



*facepalm*

 

[Theecliff]

man reading through my old topic again (it's actually exactly a year old today, damn), I sure was optimistic they would change things :<

Damn, that was a year ago? :/

Step it up, Microsoft. The parity clause seemed absolutely stupid back then and a year later there's already enough evidence to show that it's backfiring.

 

[Jacksinthe]

If this policy is so blatantly broken and poorly conceived, then why do *you* think Microsoft has stuck with it through the complaints? There's got to be a reason?

I'm thinking that reason is because 1) it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things except for fanboy list wars and 2) there's something to be said about having less clutter in the store. They still get a lot of good indy games... just not every single one.

Let me get this straight... Devs like me are here to pad list wars? Less clutter actually means better games? Fewer games is better for the consumer?

Again, is my job a fucking list war to you? Is that what I'm here for?

MS is only looking to secure first deployment from smaller developers to bolster their portfolio. That is the purpose. It rings true because not all of us have the muscle to push several versions at once AND keep up with bug tracking and fixes for all of them. This clause forces small devs to push for release on X1 first... Or so MS thought. Instead it brick walls developers and pushes them to other platforms where they are allowed to release as they please based on their project management. No small dev likes to shift development resources mid-development.

List wars? SMH

Edit: that's it, I'm going off.

In defense of my developer brothers and sisters we don't do this for list wars. We do this because we love games. We do this because we love to create, share, take part in discussion. We do this because we love the medium and are compelled to bolster it, make it stronger, contribute to the growth of something we love dearly. We are here because of love. Love of OUR hobby. Love of sharing moments, forming friendships, reveling in the greatness of a medium with so many different virtual avenues of expression.

Our love is our expression in this industry. We try. We sweat. We bleed. We lose sleep. We get scared. Happy. Sad. Confused. Frustrated. We put our necks out. We donate our time in hopes of making a contribution to this industry.

Again, for the love of the game.

 

[Rymuth]

and despite this "terrible" policy, Microsoft still had the media consensus stronger 1st year lineup, or did I dream that up? What that tells me is that the indy impact hasn't helped Sony as much as many make it seem around these parts. Sometimes you have to question what's in the things being fed to you.

Its not about 1st party lineup, its about creating a healthy ecosystem of online games, of nurturing indie devs so they become AA developers in the future.

Is any of this registering?

 

[Yazus]

obligatory

 

[open_mouth_]

I don't have time to get into back in forths all day. That's why I say my piece and let people digest. They usually come around, I've found. Every company has their own policies/reasons... some you agree with, some you don't. Some of you want Microsoft and Sony to be exactly the same in every respect. It doesn't work that way, nor should we want it to. These companies should be bold enough to buck the trends.

On a side note, who even has time for all these games these days. I can't even keep up with the Xbox One's library as it is and some people want even more games released weekly. I'll leave you with a pic that sums up my feelings:

 

[Handy Fake]

]I don't have time to get into back in forths all day. That's why I say my piece and let people digest. They usually come around, I've found.[/B] Every company has their own policies/reasons... some you agree with, some you don't. Some of you want Microsoft and Sony to be exactly the same in every respect. It doesn't work that way, nor should we want it to. These companies should be bold enough to buck the trends.

On a side note, who even has time for all these games these days. I can't even keep up with the Xbox One's library as it is and some people want even more games released weekly. I'll leave you with a pic that sums up my feelings:

Are you a dragon? A dragon being woken from your slumber?

 

[Theecliff]

I don't have time to get into back in forths all day. That's why I say my piece and let people digest. They usually come around, I've found. Every company has their own policies/reasons... some you agree with, some you don't. Some of you want Microsoft and Sony to be exactly the same in every respect. It doesn't work that way, nor should we want it to. These companies should be bold enough to buck the trends.

And by buck the trends you mean dick small indie developers over, right? Yes, every company has their own policies, doesn't stop some of them being incredibly shitty and in need of a change.