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[vaibhavpisal]

Looks cool but it needs to be sunglasses sized to be appealing.

I don't want to wear a VR headset sized device to do mundane tasks.

For gaming I am ok with elaborate contraptions.

 

[jasondefaoite]

Can you tell me what M2 and R1 processors cost, the 12 sensors, lidar, or two RGB subpixel 4K micro-OLEDs at low volume since you seem to know?

It's slightly more than 5K per display. Apple mentioned 32MP across both screens.

 

[E-Cat]

It's slightly more than 5K per display. Apple mentioned 32MP across both screens.

I thought I heard 23 MP, might have to check that.

Edit: From Apple’s website- ”The breakthrough design of Vision Pro features an ultra-high-resolution display system that packs 23 million pixels across two displays.” So it’s neither 4K nor 5K since 4K is 8.3m and 5K 14.7m pixels per screen, but somewhere in the middle.

 

[THE DUCK]

It's an AR headset. The passthrough quality is going to be an indicator of how good those features could be.

The whole AR thing is cool to a point, but why would I want to look at my basement if I can look at full vr with a mountain range? (Behind my "virtual screens") If I'm watching a movie, it's in the virtual movie theater.

Just saying there's very few work or even gaming applications that realistically combine real life with vr that makes sense.

That said, for things like a theme park ride, this could be a great feature.

 

[Marvel14]

The product truly looks amazing. It looks like something that we'd see coming out 10 years from now, not today.

With all of the hardware, software, and R&D that went into this, it makes every other headset look like a toy. It's totally understandable that it'd be priced at $3500.

With that said, I just don't know what is going to push consumers to feel like they NEED something like this. As cool as it looks, I think everyone's perfectly content using their normal TVs, laptops, and phones.


As others have said, it feels like a solution looking for a problem.

Functionally it looks like touch free IPad AR glasses. Very cool but niche and as others have said, doesn't really solve a problem that people want fixed.

Interaction with your immediate family without eye contact is not going to be popular....

 

[E-Cat]

That's the endgame, vr is not gonna get mainstream until the form factor is gonna be that small and light.

Not gonna be the endgame until you can fully occlude pixels on glasses

 

[8BiTw0LF]

 

[THE DUCK]

Can you tell me what M2 and R1 processors cost, the 12 sensors, lidar, or two RGB subpixel 4K micro-OLEDs at low volume since you seem to know?

Well, an m2 chip is probably similar to m1, but let's say double. So at most $200 per chip.
R1 is just a co-proccesor, maybe $100.
The 4k oled are most likely the most expensive parts, but considering apple's buying power (dont pretend they arent getting a sweet deal in hopes of a furrher order of millions) and cost of other oled parts, maybe $500. Then the cameras and sensors, maybe $300 even with top end parts. So ya, nowhere near even 2k.

Here's a link to what m1 cost to make.

Apple's move to M1 chips will save $2.5B this year – IBM exec - 9to5Mac

An analysis by a senior IMB exec suggests that Apple's move to M1 chips will save the company around $2.5B this year, with far larger savings to come ...

9to5mac.com

Not sure why your running to the defense of a company that is infamous for high margin products, and we're not just talking about its peripherals, it's thier whole product line.

The company has posted years where thier entire profit margin was over 42%, and you think they are scraping by on this headset?

 

[GymWolf]

Not gonna be the endgame until you can fully occlude pixels on glasses

What do you mean?

 

[sertopico]

Watch apple fans lining up to buy this product.

Lining up? That's for peasants.

 

[E-Cat]

Well, an m2 chip is probably similar to m1, but let's say double. So at most $200 per chip.
R1 is just a co-proccesor, maybe $100.
The 4k oled are most likely the most expensive parts, but considering apple's buying power (dont pretend they arent getting a sweet deal in hopes of a furrher order of millions) and cost of other oled parts, maybe $500. Then the cameras and sensors, maybe $300 even with top end parts. So ya, nowhere near even 2k.

Here's a link to what m1 cost to make.

Apple's move to M1 chips will save $2.5B this year – IBM exec - 9to5Mac

An analysis by a senior IMB exec suggests that Apple's move to M1 chips will save the company around $2.5B this year, with far larger savings to come ...

9to5mac.com

Not sure why your running to the defense of a company that is infamous for high margin products, and we're not just talking about its peripherals, it's thier whole product line.

The company has posted years where thier entire profit margin was over 42%, and you think they are scraping by on this headset?

Fair enough, I’m saying I see value here where I don’t w/ other Apple products. I don’t doubt their margins are nice and hefty

 

[Mokus]

With Steve Jobs they could have sell it even at $4999.99.

 

[Three]

I'm buying two. One for me and one for my dog.

 

[E-Cat]

What do you mean?

When you illuminate a pixel on glasses, you still see the real world through it. So you can’t really concretely place a virtual object in the world that isn’t a ghostly apparition.

 

[GymWolf]

When you illuminate a pixel on glasses, you still see the real world through it. So you can’t really concretely place a virtual object in the world that isn’t a ghostly apparition.

What do you think is the biggest problem they have to face? This pixel thing you say or actually making a powerfull vr headset with glasses form factor?

 

[E-Cat]

What do you think is the biggest problem they have to face? This pixel thing you say or actually making a powerfull vr headset with glasses form factor?

I’m not an expert on optics, so hard to say. Probably the processing could be done through streaming from an external computing source like something on your waist or even a desktop computer w/ WiGig or Wifi-6 (or a successor to that tech).

The display side does seem more daunting, they might even have to apply new physics. The real problem isn’t even in making bright enough pixels, how do you physically BLOCK light coming in from the world for a black pixel? A phase-change display?

 

[Fredrik]

I can see myself replacing my current work- and private devices (MacBook Pro, iPad) with this.

Battery life, up to 2 hours…
You won’t replace anything with this thing. I’m annoyed enough at my Apple Watch not lastning more than a day. Using the sleep monitor means I have to leave it on the charger the next day.

 

[THE DUCK]

Fair enough, I’m saying I see value here where I don’t w/ other Apple products. I don’t doubt their margins are nice and hefty

Well in support of your arguement, it does offer a package of tech that currently doesn't exist elsewhere. And that's not true of other Apple products currently.

That said, I suspect that will change within a year or 2.

 

[THE DUCK]

Battery life, up to 2 hours…
You won’t replace anything with this thing. I’m annoyed enough at my Apple Watch not lastning more than day. Using the sleep monitor means I have to leave it on the charger the next day.

It is running dual m2 chips, that's a lot to power. For some reason I was actually thinking it would have a dedicated cable and no battery at all, but I can see why it has the battery. I plan of making and selling a baseball battery hat for, I got you covered for like 12 hours. Of course my hat does weight 14lbs and looks weird, but it's only $499.

 

[UnNamed]

Ok seriously.

Considering what Hololens did and its price, this Vision Pro seems a better product.
Considering other VR devices like Quest and company, VP seems way better, better specs, better UI, etc.
So, per se, it's a valuable product.

The problem here is normal people don't need a Hololens or a Quest, they need a compact product, so light you can put on and off so easily you don't even realize you're wearing it.

It's stupid to show people to use these devices like it's the most normal thing in the world, it will not happen, like it's not normal (maybe rare but not normal) to show employee to use a Switch on a bus and ignoring their wife to play games when they come back home.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Well, an m2 chip is probably similar to m1, but let's say double. So at most $200 per chip.
R1 is just a co-proccesor, maybe $100.
The 4k oled are most likely the most expensive parts, but considering apple's buying power (dont pretend they arent getting a sweet deal in hopes of a furrher order of millions) and cost of other oled parts, maybe $500. Then the cameras and sensors, maybe $300 even with top end parts. So ya, nowhere near even 2k.

And given Apple's profit margin the 3500$ price seems legit.

 

[E-Cat]

Well in support of your arguement, it does offer a package of tech that currently doesn't exist elsewhere. And that's not true of other Apple products currently.

That said, I suspect that will change within a year or 2.

Exactly, you got it. Apple reached out into the future and brought something forward by ~2 years. That rightfully commands a premium price.

 

[GymWolf]

I’m not an expert on optics, so hard to say. Probably the processing could be done through streaming from an external computing source like something on your waist or even a desktop computer w/ WiGig or Wifi-6 (or a successor to that tech).

The display side does seem more daunting, they might even have to apply new physics. The real problem isn’t even in making bright enough pixels, how do you physically BLOCK light coming in from the world for a black pixel? A phase-change display?

Yeah, light coming from an external source is gonna be a bitch to fix, but i really don't see vr going REALLY mainstream until we have goggle glass form factor.

 

[CGNoire]

Not gonna be the endgame until you can fully occlude pixels on glasses

Yep talk about a shit contrast ratio.

 

[supernova8]

Good video from MKBHD

TL;DR

User experience is great, very clear displays, "magical" in many ways
BUT
Very expensive and pretty heavy

I went back and watched some videos of people doing productivity stuff with the Quest Pro and, in comparison, it seems like the Vision Pro is the only device so far that would be viable in terms of clarity, low-latency, and ease of use.

I think this is the most important thing. Does it actually fucking work the way it should?! If yes then it's just a matter of making it more efficient and lighter. I think they're onto something.

Problem with something like Quest 2 or 3 or Pro is that you spend all that money and then it doesn't really do what you need it to do. All great saying "oh yeah virtual desktop windows" but then it's too blurry and unresponsive. The Vision Pro (at least based on a few outlets' hands on impressions) actually works.

Obviously at the $3500 it's out of reach for most people but if Apple can get developers to make awesome stuff for it (or at least adapt their existing apps to take advantage of the Vision Pro's feature set) then they're on the path to victory.

Kinda reminds me of back when I bought my first Macbook Air. I thought it was a rip off for what the specs were (relative to what you could get with Windows laptops) but then I thought "wait, it's thin, light, portable, actually has a battery life long enough that I can take it out and about with me, and still does what I need to do just fine....maybe it's worth the money after all?".

If you think about it, Apple has been doing thin, light, and whisper quiet laptops (with long battery life) for what... 15 years now, right?



OG Macbook Air gave you about 5 hours battery when other thin and light laptops at the time would give you 2 hours if you're lucky.

So yeah... I think Apple will do well with this (not that I'm buying it for $3500, they can fuck right off)

 

[GymWolf]

Good video from MKBHD

TL;DR

User experience is great, very clear displays, "magical" in many ways
BUT
Very expensive and pretty heavy

I went back and watched some videos of people doing productivity stuff with the Quest Pro and, in comparison, it seems like the Vision Pro is the only device so far that would be viable in terms of clarity, low-latency, and ease of use.

I think this is the most important thing. Does it actually fucking work the way it should?! If yes then it's just a matter of making it more efficient and lighter. I think they're onto something.

Pretty heavy is already a big letdown.

Good luck watching a 2 hour movie with that thing on your head...

 

[FunkMiller]

Pretty heavy is already a big letdown.

Good luck watching a 2 hour movie with that thing on your head...

So, the one thing they absolutely HAD to get right to make this an even halfway viable thing for consumers to want to use... they fucked up.

Who's going to want a big heavy headset on their face, when what you'll be doing with it won't be worth having a big, heavy headset on your face?

I'm a huge advocate for VR and believe it'll only become more popular in the future. But this ain't it. This is a rather dull product, that solves no problems, offers no advantage over regular computing, comes with several big drawbacks, and doesn't even do full blown VR experiences.

 

[supernova8]

So, the one thing they absolutely HAD to get right to make this an even halfway viable thing for consumers to want to use... they fucked up.

Who's going to want a big heavy headset on their face, when what you'll be doing with it won't be worth having a big, heavy headset on your face?

I'm a huge advocate for VR and believe it'll only become more popular in the future. But this ain't it. This is a rather dull product, that solves no problems, offers no advantage over regular computing, comes with several big drawbacks, and doesn't even do full blown VR experiences.

Well as I said (or rather as MKBHD said), it looks like they solved the latency issue and a lot of other media outlets have reported that the passthrough is amazing, so much so that you can walk around with it on and not only interact with people/stuff but it doesn't make you nauseous. I know pass through on my Quest 2 makes me feel sick so I only ever use it to make sure I'm not about whack my TV by mistake.

It's all well and good Meta offering a load of different features, but if they're half-baked what's the point? They've been trying to do all the metaverse stuff with avatars etc but it seems like they're getting ahead of themselves and trying to put their fingers into too many technical pies before really nailing down the absolute basics (including stuff like latency, clarity, responsiveness, pleasant user experience etc). If I were in the market for something like this I'd rather pay extra and get something that really does work.

Plus (assuming they make it lighter and cheaper), I could definitely see myself putting it on and bringing up a large screen on my Mac for work purposes or just for watching Youtube on a projector size screen.

 

[FunkMiller]

Plus (assuming they make it lighter and cheaper), I could definitely see myself putting it on and bringing up a large screen on my Mac for work purposes or just for watching Youtube on a projector size screen.

Really? You'd genuinely find it easier and more productive to put a large headset on... instead of just sitting at a normal desk with your Mac, or sitting on the couch in front of your large flat screen tv?

That's the issue. This thing solves a problem that didn't exist. Nobody has ever complained about the user interface between a desktop PC and the user, or an OLED LG tv and the user.

You have to make a VR headset compelling. You have to show that it does stuff that you simply cannot do with any other piece of technology. Because you're making that huge trade off of strapping the stupid thing to your face.

This needed to be much smaller, lighter and cheaper to be a viable consumer product. And it needed to show what it can do that nothing else can.

 

[Mattyp]

So, the one thing they absolutely HAD to get right to make this an even halfway viable thing for consumers to want to use... they fucked up.

Who's going to want a big heavy headset on their face, when what you'll be doing with it won't be worth having a big, heavy headset on your face?

I'm a huge advocate for VR and believe it'll only become more popular in the future. But this ain't it. This is a rather dull product, that solves no problems, offers no advantage over regular computing, comes with several big drawbacks, and doesn't even do full blown VR experiences.

Did you use it? Or even watch the MK video? Yes it feels heavy to hold in the hand no doubt with the gear in it, but also said he felt no issue at all over the entire time he was using the device. More time needed to see if there is any impact felt over greater period of time.

Something weighing heavy, but not feeling heavy on your face at all with the right engineering on the strap are two different things. I feel Apple has put 100s of thousands of hours into actual testing to make sure there is no ill effects at the very minimum for the battery time frame.

But no doubt, tell that billion in R&D to shut it down, we know how it feels right here and dam hell isn’t going to fly!!

 

[BootsLoader]

 

[nkarafo]

Since it's not going to work with any kind of controller or interface, gaming is out?

So what is it for?

 

[Fredrik]

It is running dual m2 chips, that's a lot to power. For some reason I was actually thinking it would have a dedicated cable and no battery at all, but I can see why it has the battery.

I think it’s running a single M2 buy it has a new chip too, R1, to reduce latency.
Unless I misunderstood you can use a cable for all day usage too, but then your movement and range is restricted just like other wired headsets and then it would’ve been better to just hook it up to a beastly PC or Mac Pro.

 

[Fredrik]

Since it's not going to work with any kind of controller or interface, gaming is out?

So what is it for?

They use a controller in the video when the lady pretend to play the basketboll game, they said you can use PS and Xbox controllers. But the games are your standard iOS mobile and Apple Arcade games unless AAA devs start investing in this thing, which I doubt.

 

[Mephisto40]

If it has no controllers what exactly are you supposed to use this for other than to show people how much money you have?

 

[VAVA Mk2]

START AT 3500$

I was making fun of it resembling a ski mask. This thing is ridiculous for everyday use or "gaming."

 

[E-Cat]

So it has an OLED screen on the outside to pass-through from the cameras on the inside of the headset scanning your eyes. And when you're in full-immersion mode, it plays an "immersion" graphic on the outside.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if it played whatever you were watching on the outside. Like hardcore porn lol

 

[RoboFu]

This looks like a great first generation product. I'm really excited to see where it will be in 5 years. I hope we'll eventually get this:

something you feel comfortable wearing in the public. I'd love to use something like that while being at the gym or in a bus.

But for now I'm loving what Apple presented. Going for a crazy price tag and delivering something that really feels like the next step hopefully keeps people interested in the future of this tech.

It’s so concerning really if you think about it. All this innovation in mobile tech goal is to put ads in front of your face 24/7.

Even on mobile there was a push for near field advertising at one point but concerns over privacy nipped that for now. But with glasses and ai there is the possibility to have ads and social media in your face constantly. Constantly guiding/influencing your behavior

 

[nemiroff]

Since it's not going to work with any kind of controller or interface, gaming is out?

So what is it for?

It will work with controllers, didn't they show it being used with a PS controller?

Anyway, what's it going to be used for..? Well, it's a V1, it's not going to be used for much.. I mean, Apple knows it's not going to sell millions. It's like a learning experience for them, and their vision is being constructed as they go. But anyway, I guess it's meant to be a "replacement" for entertainment and apps, mixed reality AR and VR.

All these features you see here will be standard in all VR/AR headsets for a tenth of the price in the near future, and even sooner in some tethered headsets. Right now it's probably going to be sold mostly to businesses (our team is getting some for our UX lab f.ex.) for R&D and "fun", and for those who enjoy buying 10K TVs.. And of course Apple fanboys as well

 

[jasondefaoite]

I thought I heard 23 MP, might have to check that.

Edit: From Apple’s website- ”The breakthrough design of Vision Pro features an ultra-high-resolution display system that packs 23 million pixels across two displays.” So it’s neither 4K nor 5K since 4K is 8.3m and 5K 14.7m pixels per screen, but somewhere in the middle.

Thanks for the correction. It was pretty late for me watching it.

 

[ADiTAR]

That's the issue. This thing solves a problem that didn't exist. Nobody has ever complained about the user interface between a desktop PC and the user, or an OLED LG tv and the user.

You've nailed it. It's what I think entirely on VR, it's another user interface but it's not really solving anything. Products that make an impact is when they solve something users didn't know they needed.

 

[E-Cat]

Even on mobile there was a push for near field advertising at one point but concerns over privacy nipped that for now. But with glasses and ai there is the possibility to have ads and social media in your face constantly. Constantly guiding/influencing your behavior

Sure it's invasive, but as far as influencing the behavior of the masses I'd be a lot more worried about ChatGPT-like agents on social media engineering people's opinions -- with or without a headset.

 

[Elysion]

I‘m disappointed at the size and bulk of this thing. I assumed Apple‘s headset would be significantly smaller and lighter than those of their competitors, and that they would deliver the first headset that doesn’t make people look goofy as fuck when they wear it.

Instead, it looks just like all the other bulky headsets we‘ve gotten over the last ten years.

 

[E-Cat]

nm

 

[Party McHardy]

Looks like a fresh new way to engage with the Apple ecosystem if you’re into that. I’ll wait for a couple revisions though.

 

[nkarafo]

All this innovation in mobile tech goal is to put ads in front of your face 24/7.

True. This is the feeling i get when i'm using any kind of device that i can't interfere/mod/setup myself.

Maybe i'm too old and cranky or just an elitist. But i can't cope with the mainstream and social media anymore. Can't even bare to watch those reveal videos for more than 10 seconds

 

[Disco Dave]

*charger sold seperately.

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

I don't even care for Apple one way or the other but you're burying your head in the sand if you can't see that this product is in a whole different stratosphere than PSVR 2. It's not even really the same product category.

It's got it's own extremely high end processor, it's own fully fledged OS, an external curved OLED display, greater-than-4k internal displays for each eye, etc.. etc.. etc..

They've thought of literally everything.

Except the damn price. Sorry, but this is way too much for an unproven platform and you damn well know it.

 

[dotnotbot]

So peoples did get to try out the headset after WWDC? Where are the impressions?

Btw, in case peoples don't understand the high end market for VR/AR headsets

Varjo XR-3 $6,495

You're not the customer, it's ok.

I think if i was single, i would consider buying it. Having an IMAX screen in your home with good PPI and micro-OLED blacks and nits is nuts. Doesn't work for a family though. Just for movies i would consider it.

Unless Apple is using different OLED panels than everyone else, you won't be getting OLED perfect blacks in VR. To deal with massive near-black smearing, VR manufacturers raise the black floor quite a lot, above the threshold where it's most notticeable (forgot how this method is called but it has its name).

OLED TV panels don't have this problem (QD-OLEDs do suffer from it a little but nowhere near as bad as small mobile OLED screens, strong dithering can be deployed to remedy that but it's probably no-go solution for VR since it would make the image too grainy)

 

[Spukc]

I assume this handtracking works in the dark?