abstract alien
Member
That was my first thought as well.
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Are there any final bosses who are good guys?
- Thread starter NZerker12
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void_if_removed
Neo Member
Infamous 2, on an evil playthrough, the final boss is definitely a good guy.
That was harsh.
That was harsh.
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
King DeDeDe in Kirby's Adventure/Nightmare In Dreamland is a good example. You spend the whole game thinking he'd stolen the star rod from the fountain of dreams for his own gain, when the truth is he took it to hide it from the nightmare creatures that had started to invade dreamland, and if taking out kirby meant he could keep the star rod away from the fountain and into the hands of the nightmare creatures, he'd do it.
It was my first time playing a game where the main villian actually ended up being a good guy all along. Kirby's Adventure was fucking great.
It was my first time playing a game where the main villian actually ended up being a good guy all along. Kirby's Adventure was fucking great.
Basically every Metal Gear plays out the same as MGS3 but isnt as heavily implied in the story like it is in 3. For example, Solidus in MGS2 is actually the good guy trying to stop the patriots but the player doesnt fully understand this until the last fight. Snake is being manipulated into thinking hes saving the world but in reality is just being used to kill Solidus for the Patriots.
Hours Left
Member
Almost all the Pokémon games.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Breath of Fire III
Pankratous
Member
You mean Raiden is being manipulated, right? The patriots think Snake is dead during the main events of MGS2, I'm sure. He's the anomaly.
Semi-examples:
If Saren counts (IMO he doesn't), then retconned Starcraft Overmind does as well. Good guy but brainwashed. Doesn't count either in my mind though.
Starcraft Brood War's end does kind, since you play as the Zerg, Protoss and Terrans definitively are good guys compared to you.
In C&C Kane's Wrath, the campaign is a NOD campaign so... I guess this applies to all RTS campaigns where you can play as the bad guys.
Though RTSes having actual bosses are rare.
Proper example:
Dark Side ending for the Jedi Academy. The boss is Kyle Katarn so...
If Saren counts (IMO he doesn't), then retconned Starcraft Overmind does as well. Good guy but brainwashed. Doesn't count either in my mind though.
Starcraft Brood War's end does kind, since you play as the Zerg, Protoss and Terrans definitively are good guys compared to you.
In C&C Kane's Wrath, the campaign is a NOD campaign so... I guess this applies to all RTS campaigns where you can play as the bad guys.
Though RTSes having actual bosses are rare.
Proper example:
Dark Side ending for the Jedi Academy. The boss is Kyle Katarn so...
Could you clarify your post a bit more? Who's the final boss?
Also,
The Judge
(if you don't switch sides).
God no, you have severely misunderstood that story
she started a war and killed almost an entire race of peaceful people just because of the possibility they COULD be dangerous, she also tried to murder anyone who dared question her on this, she imprisoned her own sister and slandered her name for eternity just for not supporting her.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
The final boss in Breath of Fire III is
a goddess who wants peace. She thinks dragons are too dangerous to let roam free, so she wants to keep them in a peaceful garden away from the rest of the world. She also wants to prevent the progress of technology because that technology could be used to develop weapons.
She's basically a mother who wants to keep her children locked up forever to make sure they never get hurt, and never hurt anyone. She's horribly misguided, and the heroes refuse her because they decide that their free will is too important, but she's not "evil" per se.
She's basically a mother who wants to keep her children locked up forever to make sure they never get hurt, and never hurt anyone. She's horribly misguided, and the heroes refuse her because they decide that their free will is too important, but she's not "evil" per se.
I disagree that I misunderstood.
I agree with what you say, but I don't think she's a "bad guy" in the traditional sense, for the reasons I explained above. She's misguided, wrong, and fanatical, but her intentions come from a desire for peace and utopia, and not in the more typical "I shall rule over this everlasting peace!" fashion that you often see in foaming-at-the-mouth fanatics. Compared to most JRPG villains, particularly final bosses, she's kind of bittersweet, in a way.
That said, it depends on what one means by "bad guy" or "good guy". If it's in the sense that the heroes are the bad guys and the last boss is a "good guy", or, if we count well-intentioned but misguided fanatics, then no, she's obviously not a "good guy", I do agree there.
Seven Force
Banned
Regarding BoF3, I was always under the impression that
it was supposed to be left up to the player to decide whether or not Myria was genuinely acting out of concern for the world or was on an egotistical power trip, fitting in with the game's theme of moral ambiguity.
Stereogatari
Banned
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
More or less.
You actually can agree to her demands to stay in her garden forever, and you get some sort of weak-ass ending for it. But it's obviously not the "true" ending, which is obtained after refusing her and defeating her as the last boss, so I think the game pretty much implies that she's wrong and wants you to refuse her, even if technically you have a choice.
At least I think we can agree that BoF III is an amazing game with one of the better stories in JRPGs. =)
I disagree.
Liquid is an ass. And Solidus kinda is, too. But Liquid is a legit evil asshole.
Yeah you rescue the little girl and then she demands you both fight to the death for her
Bedameister
Member
GIANKRATOS
Member
Kessler
StarStabbedMoon
Member
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Not Solidus.
The Patriots weren't even really bad guys in 2 even despite all the shady stuff they did like abducting children. Their ends of achieving a world with a true sense of order that kept humanity from squandering their technology is a good one. If Solidus had succeeded in killing the Wisemen (
) then the world would have been thrown into chaos. The Patriots were a necessary force for the advancement of the species.
And don't be fooled by Solidus' aspirations for some sort of greater, free society. He plainly states one of his key motivations is doing it for the legacy. For the notoriety because he himself cannot bear children genetically and he's too insecure with himself to live the rest of his days in peace.
Even if you see the Patriots as bad guys, then Solidus is still an immense asshole. He could've worked with Philanthropy to track the Patriots down, but he was obsessed with killing Raiden. Something something neural network in his cerebral cortex something something unless you kill me you'll live in your own double helix. If the two didn't fight, Sunny and Rose would have been killed in retaliation for Raiden not cooperating but that's about it and it's not like he was fighting Raiden for their sake. Hell no he didn't even know about that.
The Patriots weren't even really bad guys in 2 even despite all the shady stuff they did like abducting children. Their ends of achieving a world with a true sense of order that kept humanity from squandering their technology is a good one. If Solidus had succeeded in killing the Wisemen (
later revealed to not be men at all but rather a group of 4 AIs
And don't be fooled by Solidus' aspirations for some sort of greater, free society. He plainly states one of his key motivations is doing it for the legacy. For the notoriety because he himself cannot bear children genetically and he's too insecure with himself to live the rest of his days in peace.
Even if you see the Patriots as bad guys, then Solidus is still an immense asshole. He could've worked with Philanthropy to track the Patriots down, but he was obsessed with killing Raiden. Something something neural network in his cerebral cortex something something unless you kill me you'll live in your own double helix. If the two didn't fight, Sunny and Rose would have been killed in retaliation for Raiden not cooperating but that's about it and it's not like he was fighting Raiden for their sake. Hell no he didn't even know about that.
Aaronrules380
Member
Pretty much every finals Tales of Boss is meant to be sympathetic and not completely evil. At worst they're a good person who went down a bad path at some point, or a well intentioned extremist. I guess Xillia 2's final boss might be an exception, but even that one is ify
JSoup
Banned
Applying a loose meaning to "final", but General Nazgrim in wing two Siege of Orgrimmar.
Portrayed through all of WoW as not a bad guy, just really loyal to the Horde and fully aware that sometimes he's ordered to do horrible things. Before the fight, he straight up states "I'm doing what I do for the good of the Horde. I know you are to. Let's do this."
Death Penalty
Member
In Final Fantasy XII, I think Vayne Solidor had better motives for everything he did than any of the main cast. I'd even agree that his actions are justified when you learn of his overarching goal. Not necessarily a straight up good guy, but what he was shooting for was probably the most noble goal of anyone.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Liquid, Solidus, and Oceliquid are villains. Liquid especially. He just wanted war so he could have a place for himself and as a vehicle to propel his legacy to one greater than Big Boss. And all this without any pretense of revenge like Big Boss
(which doesn't justify Big Boss' actions either by the way and he admits he was wrong at the end of MGS4)
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Wait, so
letho
palpabl_purpura
Member
Was going to say Streets of Rage and Double Dragon, but someone beat me to it. Masked Devil from Ninja Gaiden is one of the final bosses, as is Zero (potentially) from Megaman X2. Super Empire Strikes Back has Darth Vader who later turns good at the very end. Sagat from SF1 seems to rehabilitate himself later on in the series. Also SF alpha will match you up with good guys depending on your character selection. Potentials include Ryu, Rose, and Guy. Mike Tyson's punch out is another game that comes to mind.
anderyoung
Member
Anytime I have to deal with Ghandi as the final nation to conquer in Civilization. Serious internal moral dilemna for me
stephendedalus
Member
Just finished this yesterday, and I don't think this particular characters motivations make him a good guy. The game itself doesn't seem to care and gives him a nice send off for some reason though which is a bit baffling. "He got us this far and we wouldn't be alive without him, but he did kinda pull that crap toward the end which changes his whole story arc...but he was a friend so let's just forget about it."
Firedemon2370
Banned
Every single final boss in the Metal Gear series.
whatsinaname
Member
Definitely.
I never considered Saskia to be a final boss, but I guess she is in a video game sense with "the big fight". Letho's arc was great as well. I went from disliking him to slowly realising that he is just Geralt's reflection on the other side of the chess board. I didn't fight him either. I would love a quest or two playing as him in Witcher 3.
PoweredByHentai
Member
Suikoden 2, the final boss being your best friend who made it possible for you to take down Luca fucking Blight.
After Luca Blight was terminated, the alliance went on to take down the empire when they had a very flimsy casus belli for it.
That game was all sorts of conflicting feels for me.
After Luca Blight was terminated, the alliance went on to take down the empire when they had a very flimsy casus belli for it.
That game was all sorts of conflicting feels for me.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
HE FIGHTS FOR YOUR FREEDOM
Arcana Wiz
Member
Very common on Tales of games, a popular twist in the series is that villains only have a different ideology from yours, not having "bad" guys vs "good" guys.
Actually this is so frequent on this series that i'm getting tired of it, wouldn't mind a truly evil final boss on this series.
Actually this is so frequent on this series that i'm getting tired of it, wouldn't mind a truly evil final boss on this series.
Aaronrules380
Member
Definitely agree. And it's not like there aren't any straight up evil guys in the series, it's just that they're pretty much always taken out mid-game
Manmademan
Member
If you play dragon's dogma in NG+, the boss
is your player character from the first game.
Mega Man's Electric Sheep
Member
Eternal Sonata's last boss definitely fits
Frederic Chopin is in your party for most of the game as a dream version of himself as he lays dying, but the final boss is Chopin himself, wanting to be defeated in battle to finally let his soul leave his body as he dies in the real world
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Yeah it's funny how inFamous Second Son gets more mentions than this when pretty much, in inFamous,
Kessler is actually Cole
Fancy Clown
Member
And Boss gave nukes to a madman for whatever use he saw fit.
His overall goal was good, even though he was a bad person. Same as Ocelot.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
The path I took means I didn't see much of
saskia
i killed letho
But that just goes to show why the w2 is such a gem of a game. we had completely differebt stories and endings and both came away greatly pleased with it.
Um, actually
Orphan wanted Lightning and co. to kill it. It was tired of it existence as humanity's babysitter, but couldn't off itself becuase of reasons. So it had to put of a fight when you reach it.
Resident4t.
Member
I don't know if it counts, but in the Splinter Cell Conviction Co-op story you have to kill your partner at the end. So if you're playing with another person you have to kill each other.
Solidus might be a dick for how he wants to do things but hes still trying to do the right thing and stop the Patriots before Snake and Raiden even know they are the actual bad guys in the series. The whole game your going after Solidus because the Patriots are manipulating Raiden into believing hes the enemy. How do you guys not understand that when the Col. starts flipping out telling you to unplug your PS2 before the end of the game.
MGS4 also is a great example of the good guys being used by the Patriots. Meryl's Rat Partol: "Rat Patrol 01 were assigned as Solid Snake's contacts in the Middle East, unaware that they had been enlisted by the Patriots themselves in order to eliminate the threat Liquid Ocelot posed to them (their abbreviated name of "RAT PT 01" is actually an anagram of "PATR10T")." from Metal Gear Wiki
MGS4 also is a great example of the good guys being used by the Patriots. Meryl's Rat Partol: "Rat Patrol 01 were assigned as Solid Snake's contacts in the Middle East, unaware that they had been enlisted by the Patriots themselves in order to eliminate the threat Liquid Ocelot posed to them (their abbreviated name of "RAT PT 01" is actually an anagram of "PATR10T")." from Metal Gear Wiki
thesolidshark
Member
I'd almost argue Jin Kazama from T6, but don't know the full story. Everyone in the Mishima bloodline has blood on their hands though.
As a Sonic fan who disagrees with this, this still got a laugh out of me. Maybe I just imagine you saying it vehemently.
Yeah, and was proved right much sooner than we thought.
I can almost agree with this too.
One of the things I love about the franchise. There's almost no absolute good/evil, as there's always a point of view.
As a Sonic fan who disagrees with this, this still got a laugh out of me. Maybe I just imagine you saying it vehemently.
Yeah, and was proved right much sooner than we thought.
I can almost agree with this too.
One of the things I love about the franchise. There's almost no absolute good/evil, as there's always a point of view.
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