Hyperactivity
Banned
I uh, done fucked up with getting to finish my 3 episodes for the week, and I'm busy during the week itself
I already wrote up OP and Salva has written his review for 1-3. Hopefully I can get it done this Friday
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Ash is in the final of the Pokémon Kalos League, can he finally win one for the land?
- Thread starter SalvaPot
- Start date
- Status
I uh, done fucked up with getting to finish my 3 episodes for the week, and I'm busy during the week itself
I already wrote up OP and Salva has written his review for 1-3. Hopefully I can get it done this Friday
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
sometimes you got established characters getting the shaft due to status quo, that's long running franchise writing 101
Are you seriously comparing thunder armor and horn aiming to the actual genius of using the wood to block the sheath? Those two first are bullshit, but the third one is actually viable as winning using your environment is something really good and out of the box.
You're madmen and I'd join you in your mad quest but no where, not even Amazon at a Pay-Per-Episode capaity is streaming it and I'm not in the mood to Youtube it.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
I don't think it was that. Hell, let's be real, the leadup to last weeks episode did everything in it's power to make it look like it was actually gonna be Ash's big moment, so I'd expect expectations to be high. Honestly, considering how poorly XY's been doing in general compared to previous seasons, I just think Japan doesn't like the show or it's particular take on Ash as actually being competent and mature. If anything, they probably tuned out because they didn't WANT to see Ash win and would rather have him continue to be stuck on his endless, fruitless quest while being stuck as a dumbass loser, though that's just conjecture since I don't speak Japanese and therefor have no idea what the reception is like over there. Would really like to get Legends of Localization or someone to dig into that sometime...
OK then. Good luck. You're gonna need it.
Netflix
What I've gleamed from #pokeani and the Dislike Buster (and especially TV Tokro deleting the PV) seems to suggest everyone was not too impressed.
UK Netflix doesn't even have it and if you think I'm VPNing for Best Wishes then yeah, naw, I'm happy remaining ignorant of that whiole mess.
I can see a certain logic behind a "they all spit in the face of the game mechanics, so they're all dumb" approach.
Agent_Carnage
Member
He will never win. As he wont evolve his damn Pokemon. He really must love losing or something.
Hahaha no
The anime would be boring as hell if all it did was adhere to game mechanics. Come on. The anime is not the games and shouldn't try to be.
What year is this?
Let's look at his team
Pikachu
Greninja
Talonflame
Hawlucha
Goodra
Noivern
Yeah, they're all base evolutions.
If you're going to trash the anime, do it based on how it is, not preconceived notions based on events that are older than the target audience
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
it's not even "based on events older than the target audience" as even OS Ash had many fully evolved mons, it's an outright fabrication as by Indigo he had Pikachu, Charizard, Squirtle, Bulbasaur, Kingler, Pidgeotto, and Muk.
I think the problem is that the one that gets most screentime tend to be Pikachu, Charizard, Squirtle and Bulbasaur. And then the bulk of Ash's mons are single stage.
this is the meme I don't understand
I think the problem is that the one that gets most screentime tend to be Pikachu, Charizard, Squirtle and Bulbasaur. And then the bulk of Ash's mons are single stage.
this is the meme I don't understand
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
I mean, while I certainly don't agree with the whole "Ash never evolves his 'Mons! He's a loser!" train of thought, I can certainly see why someone who watched during Kanto might get that perception:
Still, Ash gets way too much flack for this shit. In a world where Pokemon are actual living, breathing, thinking beings instead of just 1s and 0s in a kideo game about cockfighting, him actually acknowledging his 'Mons wishes even if it means leaving them behind of not evolving them is a hell of a lot better than being an abusive, controlling slavedriver. A lot of people, though, want the show to be a 1:1 interpretation of the games (see the current argument about Ash's strats that make no sense by game logic or the warm reception that Origins got as a much more faithful adaptation) and "how the Pokemon feel" wouldn't matter in such an adaptation, so this stuff just makes Ash looks all the weaker in their eyes.
- As BD pointed out, Pikachu and the starters get a disproportionate amount of focus and stuck around longer compared to his other 'Mons, and of those only Charmander ever evolved.
- Many of the 'Mons he that were evolved were caught pre-evolved (Pidgeotto, Primeape, Haunter, Muk)
- Ash fully evolved 4 'Mons under his watch:
- Butterfree: One of the easiest 'Mons to get to full evolution. Was released after about 20 or so episodes.
- Charizard: Evolved early due to being a trade. Was portrayed as an albatross around Ash's neck due to it's insubordination. Was sorta released in Johto.
- Kingler: Who was such a non-entity both before and after evolution that most viewers would probably completely forget about them.
- Pidgeot: Was caught as a Pidgeotto, a intermediary evolution. Was released IMMEDIATELY AFTER EVOLVING.
- Speaking of which, Ash had a bit of a bad habit of releasing/giving away/boxing evolved Pokemon (along with the above examples, he also gave away Primeape and Haunter and left Muk in his PC from the second he caught it)
- There was also at least two episodes that I remember where Ash was presented with the possibility of evolving 'Mons (Pikachu and Bulbasaur respectively), and didn't both times. In the first case, they at least sold it wish Pikachu remaining unevolved giving it an important battle advantage, but considering the latter went down to "Bulbasaur" didn't want it, I imagine that it probably rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in the way the aforementioned releases did.
Still, Ash gets way too much flack for this shit. In a world where Pokemon are actual living, breathing, thinking beings instead of just 1s and 0s in a kideo game about cockfighting, him actually acknowledging his 'Mons wishes even if it means leaving them behind of not evolving them is a hell of a lot better than being an abusive, controlling slavedriver. A lot of people, though, want the show to be a 1:1 interpretation of the games (see the current argument about Ash's strats that make no sense by game logic or the warm reception that Origins got as a much more faithful adaptation) and "how the Pokemon feel" wouldn't matter in such an adaptation, so this stuff just makes Ash looks all the weaker in their eyes.
Aaron Strife
Banned
The Aegislash sheath thing was cool. You might as well complain about the Pokemon being able to dodge attacks.
Yeah, the whole releasing thing is something I don't get, too.
People to this day often say that, but Ash hasn't actually released a Pokémon since Lapras in 1999.
Charizard, Squirtle, Gliscor and Goodra are the closest, but they're all essentially in storage, just not at Oak's (though Gliscor and Charizard are now at Oak's). They have all been called on at least once since they were "released"
Aipom was a trade, and he got Buizel in exchange (though Dawn then releasing Ambipom sucked)
Yeah like I said in the other thread, Ash's unevolved mons have more impressive records than some of his evolved ones. Hell, his Torterra fought better as a Turtwig.
The anime doesn't follow the game rules, and evolved Pokemon are not automatically better than unevolved ones.
The last league episode not getting any notable ratings boost isn't due to Japan not caring about Pokemon in particular, animes just don't get big spikes due to important plot events period. I remember when I actually followed One Piece's ratings way back in the day and super anticipated episodes by the fanbase would get normal ratings like any other episode but then you'd sometimes have these random ass middle-of-the-road episodes with an increase in audience due to no discernible reason. So yeah, these long running shows have a pretty stabilished audience and it's unlikely for a huge spike to happen outside of a few special occasions like big announcements or something or just a random good week.
Also, that top is depressing. I remember when Sazae-san straight up refused to put up a performance lower than 17 points at its worst. It was usually at 19 and above.
Also, that top is depressing. I remember when Sazae-san straight up refused to put up a performance lower than 17 points at its worst. It was usually at 19 and above.
Precure's been a bit of a mess this year too but I don't have enough info to know if that's due to Resources (ne; budget) or what.
It's a shame too because both DB Super and SM Crystal both came back from some disasterious early installments to be really good this year so I really don't want Toei to start going nuts and making stupid decisons.
Then again this is Toei so maybe I'm wishing for a bit much.
On topic; man, the worst thing about all this is that the Team Flare arc (Which looks like it's going to be well done at the very leat) is going to be overshadowed by all this and Alian will probably never recover his standing as a character with all the X-Pac Heat he's now carrying.
It's a shame too because both DB Super and SM Crystal both came back from some disasterious early installments to be really good this year so I really don't want Toei to start going nuts and making stupid decisons.
Then again this is Toei so maybe I'm wishing for a bit much.
On topic; man, the worst thing about all this is that the Team Flare arc (Which looks like it's going to be well done at the very leat) is going to be overshadowed by all this and Alian will probably never recover his standing as a character with all the X-Pac Heat he's now carrying.
I didn't say I agree! Although I will say that I enjoyed Goodra's fights for differing from the typical dodge fests.
NeonZ
Member
That wouldn't explain why the ratings were falling through Best Wishes. It's not like this is recent. XY just didn't stop the bleeding, but it didn't start it. If anything, considering how two very different takes on Ash haven't changed the course of the anime, I think it's clear that audiences in general are just tired of its overall format and direction. There's a core group following it, but they seemingly aren't attracting new audiences.
What they should take from this is that the next season should be a clean break in order to stand out - with a new protagonist and without being tied down by the formula of the anime. They likely won't do that though, and we'll just see it continue to descend into irrelevancy.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
ratings are falling because the viewership just isn't there and is decreasing, that's just there really
in other news yeah the anime really went overt with the Hitler angle
in other news yeah the anime really went overt with the Hitler angle
NeonZ
Member
I mean, it's not just the overall ratings that are falling. Relatively, compared to other shows, it's down too. Back when Diamond and Pearl was ending, it could even make it to the top 5 sometimes. By the time Best Wishes ended, it was near the bottom of the top 10, and now it doesn't even show up unless some shows don't air.
Etrian Oddity
Member
"Dodge!" is pretty lame, as well. Like, the pokemon are so dumb that they literally need to be told to avoid that incoming harmful attack?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I always chalk it up to making the action seem slow on audience but is actually fast, like in the Aegislash fight the logs are staying on the air unusually slow but it's actually pika moving fast
That's just poor directing.
Belgian Dude
Member
I just started X/Y (really my first pokemon anime since I just watched bits of the Indigo League) and I really like how the battles are done, to be honest. The battle with Viola had a real sense of using the environment which is what really set the whole thing apart from the game (though I got tired of the 6th use of 'Picture-Perfect').
But then you got things like Ash losing to Viola when he should be a veteran by this point or having a hard time beating what is a not-trained Bunnelby when he gets there which, even without seeing the past seasons, just knowing that this is Region #6 is really, really off-putting. I liked his clever use of Iron Tail in that battle but sad to see he loses again after starting the season by already being worse than he should be by that point and (from what I can hear) growing into someone consistently competent.
But then you got things like Ash losing to Viola when he should be a veteran by this point or having a hard time beating what is a not-trained Bunnelby when he gets there which, even without seeing the past seasons, just knowing that this is Region #6 is really, really off-putting. I liked his clever use of Iron Tail in that battle but sad to see he loses again after starting the season by already being worse than he should be by that point and (from what I can hear) growing into someone consistently competent.
It's like Omega Leonmon here reached into the mind of thousands of viewers and pulled out their exact sentiments about all this :V
I wouldn't say it's all their fault.
I am not a fan of 99.9% of Unova's Fauna so having a show that's hard up on being exclusively about that and Squeeky McVoltecka only was never going to be much to me and I can't remember one single Gym episode that didn't end in me wanting to hurl a book at the wall ether between the Gym Leader in question being an ass or Ash being up and out retarded so that was one thing against it off the buff.
To murder an analogy, however, The Doctor is only as good as his companions and Iris and Restaurant Sonic are quite easily the worst the entire franchise has had to endure.
I'll grant Misty lost steam after Togepi, Brock outstayed his welcome by the time AG was done, never-mind DP, Max was a brat, Dawn doesn't particularity register to me one way or another and May is both overshadowed by her Special counterpart and is seemingly there for costume service more than anything but they weren't as aggressively awful as Iris was (though Max certainly tried his damnedest).
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
not at all, go watch Kamen Rider Kabuto for a similar action
pauloshinobi
Member
"Pokemon, dodge its attack and then make this complicated shit with your move" always bugged me as well.
Reminds me of kids playing with G.I Joes or some shit.
Changing the subject, I was wondering about an ideal 1st scene for the inevitable Alola season:
It stars with a crowded stadium, it is the final match of Kanto league. As a pokemon defeats the other, the stadium screens points out the score as 3x5.
Cuts out to the title defendant, an slightly older Ash sending his pikachu to battle. Then some battling shenanigans, iron tails, thundebolts & whatnot.
The the image gains some interference, like a TV. Somewhere in Alola there is a kid, eagerly watching the finals. He/she is the new protagonist.
Yes, I am using the first scene of the first episode of the series, I think it could be a great "book ends..." device. Make Ash sucessfully defend his title, lets move on with the new kid. Make Ash appearing in some episodes helping fighting the bad guys, or being the mentor/rival.
No need to thank me bros, I am already making some calls to TPC to discuss some more details about this.
Reminds me of kids playing with G.I Joes or some shit.
Changing the subject, I was wondering about an ideal 1st scene for the inevitable Alola season:
It stars with a crowded stadium, it is the final match of Kanto league. As a pokemon defeats the other, the stadium screens points out the score as 3x5.
Cuts out to the title defendant, an slightly older Ash sending his pikachu to battle. Then some battling shenanigans, iron tails, thundebolts & whatnot.
The the image gains some interference, like a TV. Somewhere in Alola there is a kid, eagerly watching the finals. He/she is the new protagonist.
Yes, I am using the first scene of the first episode of the series, I think it could be a great "book ends..." device. Make Ash sucessfully defend his title, lets move on with the new kid. Make Ash appearing in some episodes helping fighting the bad guys, or being the mentor/rival.
No need to thank me bros, I am already making some calls to TPC to discuss some more details about this.
The Silver
Member
the first scene of Sun/Moon anime should be a flash forward with Ash in the finals seemingly right on the verge of winning with his last attack.
when the anime catches up to the scene its revealed Ash was down to his last pokemon and his opponent has 5 more, Ash loses.
when the anime catches up to the scene its revealed Ash was down to his last pokemon and his opponent has 5 more, Ash loses.
hydragonwarrior
Member
I think ONLY when the Pokemon series is completely over, will Ash win. So Ash losing this tournament seems kind of expected.
You really should send this in to the writting staff. This sound beautiful. Especially the last statement.
You're saying Ash is destined to be in a limbo where he never wins?!
NeonZ
Member
There's so much that could be done with him winning though. Are we really never getting an Elite 4/Champion match in the anime? Something like the World Tournament from the Black/White 2 games also would be really nice in the anime, but it's never happening if Ash can't even win local leagues. It's such a dumb creative direction.
A world tournament to end the series where the winners of each regional league are entered sounds like something so painstakingly simple and obvious to work towards. Bring back some oldies, have a big fuck off sendoff to decide the best trainer in the world. Build up to something legitimate starting by winning a regional league. My heart's numbing to the stupidity at this point though.
Instead I will actually die of old age before the show ends and Ash is still losing at the age of 10. fml.
I think it's fine that he lost. I just thought the way the actual battle played out was pretty by-the-numbers and boring.
The writers/storyboarders seem to have put more effort into his battle with the kid with the aegislash than they did for the final battle. It was especially weird that his Greninja went out like a chump, since from what I've heard they'd been building it up as a super badass all season.
The writers/storyboarders seem to have put more effort into his battle with the kid with the aegislash than they did for the final battle. It was especially weird that his Greninja went out like a chump, since from what I've heard they'd been building it up as a super badass all season.
Nostalgia that arc the fuck up too. Original team.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Yeah it'd be nice if Ash won the league. After winning the league he faces the E4 where he loses against the champion. However, he receives an invitation for the Pokemon World Cup. A lot of returning gym leaders, E4 members, champions, rivals, as well as former group members. Have him win the world cup. You could easily make a 15-20 episode arc with the world cup if they wanted to. Have Ash arrive early for training and meet up with various cast members and go on different adventures. Also have there be intermixed episodes of the world cup battles and side episodes.
I think the series can still continue largely unchanged. Have it set a few years after Ash won the world cup. Ash decides to travel to new regions and discover new pokemon. He ends up travelling with two new characters. Ash acts as a mentor to the group, regularly switches up his team among his reserves but keeps any pokemon caught in the current region on his team. His arc is tied to the evil team/mascot legendaries as well. The two new characters pursue different goals, one that pursues the gym leader, trials, etc. while the other character goes after contests, super contests, showcases, etc. The two new characters are starting off trainers that have their own development, character and pokemon arcs. The plot is still focused on the main game challenge(gyms, trials, etc.) just with a new trainer. Team Rocket could still be on the cast still following Ash and Pikachu. That way there can be different characters and arcs instead of just wiping his brain and resetting Pikachu's power level at the start of each new generation.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Finally watched this. The fights gotten better over the years and the loss was some ol' bullshit. That Charizard took that destructo disc straight to the face.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
For how long are we supposed to keep the losing avatars? ;_;
Lucky Seven
Banned
Stop bumping this thread. I want to forget ;.;
WrenchNinja
Member
You should be ashamed for ever believing. So forever.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
September 18th
It's been another two weeks. Where's the reviews, Hyper?
mrhyderager
Member
I came here to ask why it looks like Ash is getting, somehow, progressively younger.
After reading just this last page, I've realized that I am woefully uneducated on the arguable nuances of an anime.
After reading just this last page, I've realized that I am woefully uneducated on the arguable nuances of an anime.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
wut, XY Ash is his "oldest" looking image
If I want to read about a competent Pokémon trainer, would this be a good box set?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1421550067/
(Price, good translation?)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1421550067/
(Price, good translation?)
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