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Bane vs Batman in TDKR is one of the worst fight scenes in modern cinema, isn't it
- Thread starter jett
- Start date
Fancy Clown
Member
I mean, that's his name in the movie so yeah, it is literally Bane.
So like BvS theatrical edit or any edit of Suicide Squad then?
ebullientprism
Member
I thought Bane's voice was fucking awesome. And I am pretty sure I wasnt in the minority with that opinion. Everyone I knew loved it, people copied it all the time when the movie came out.
As far as the fight scene itself? Its not great but it is fine. The Nolan trilogy was never about the action anyway. It would be like getting mad at Donnie Brasco for not having great gun fights.
As far as the fight scene itself? Its not great but it is fine. The Nolan trilogy was never about the action anyway. It would be like getting mad at Donnie Brasco for not having great gun fights.
I'll be honest I couldn't understand Hardy half the time, especially when there was anything kind of noise or music going on in the scene. I would have seriously liked sub titles even though I got the gist of what he saying most of the time.
Mr.Shrugglesã
Banned
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's not really "garbage." It's not particularly good, but not only is not really "bad," it's certainly nowhere near one of the worst fight scenes in modern cinema.
Like, how are we still re-litigating this overheated bullshit in the middle of 2017? With the same clips, the same gifs, the same selective "scrutiny" that reveals less about the fight than it does the sort of superficial revelations one might glean from any somewhat focused analysis of anything beyond its initial viewing?
Surprise - if you look for seams in film trickery, you will find them. Because none of it is real.
Yes, some filmmakers are better than others at hiding those seams. And some fight scenes feature the actors actually socking each other up (maybe at 1/2 or even 1/4 speed), and some choreograph beautifully and place the camera in just the right spot that those seams are filament-thin.
But you can take apart almost any fight scene with frame-by-frame slow-motion out-of-context gifs.
The question is why would you want to?
Everyone knew Nolan wasn't great at hand-to-hand with Batman since Begins. That he continued to be not great in Dark Knight Rises isn't all that surprising. But he's also not even remotely close to "worst-ever" tier, and I don't get how it's even a serious question as how he could be.
Because you using that to try and justify a fight where most of the hits don't even look to connect most of the time is just stretching. It may have been the intent of the scene, but it doesn't make the fight any less terrible looking, unless the deepness of Nolan was that even the mighty wind along the non-connecting blows of Bane is enough symbolically defeat Batman.
Pedantic overall.
Dash_Riprock
Member
There it is.gif
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
I'm not high on the movie but that fight is my favorite part of the trilogy.
Fancyarcher
Member
Edit: Oh my bad.
Ha, ha, yeah, Suicide Squad is a mess.
Fancy Clown
Member
I don't think anyone was trying to say that Nolan was intentionally trying to make the hits look like they're not connecting.
I can't believe I'm writing this, but the camera work embodies Bane's indomitably, by staying stable and controlled, whilst Batman is giving everything he has against this immovable object. This seems like a deliberate choice, because much of the scene is shot from behind Bane's shoulder, as if you're experiencing the fight from his perspective.
It goes against the grain of shaky cam, five cuts a second fight scenes that a lot of other contemporary films have (and still do!), which is why I kind of appreciate it.
But maybe Nolan is just shit at action scenes IDK ¯\_(ツ
_/¯
It goes against the grain of shaky cam, five cuts a second fight scenes that a lot of other contemporary films have (and still do!), which is why I kind of appreciate it.
But maybe Nolan is just shit at action scenes IDK ¯\_(ツ
_/¯it's bald tom hardy with a chronic respiratory condition
Fancy Clown
Member
Ohhhh you're upset that he's not exactly the same as in the comic books.
There's a reason thoughtful posts like this aren't being made by the side that just wants to shit on Nolan. They just want to say "its garbage" and move on. None of the explanations as to his intent behind the fight scenes even matters because the hits don't look exactly perfect. The cinematography doesn't matter, the performances don't matter, the sound effects don't matter, all that matters is the one thing they don't like.
It's just pathetic, and especially pathetic that they're still going at it in 2017.
Strangelove77
Member
Yup. Kind of goes without saying.
If you're trying to make a point, don't sabotage yourself with a poorly made presentation....like Nolan with his fight scenes.
Wait, I was talking about B&R here.
TDK and TDKR are great movies for what they are, at worst they're entertaining flicks.
True Savior
Member
watch more movies op
Whooosh
Just because something may have had any intent behind it, doesn't put it above criticism, nor does it automatically make it good. Maybe instead of pretending your on the mountain, above the peons, maybe you might want to think about why it is you have to twist yourself into a pretzel just to defend something that really just doesn't look that good, and why you have to default to a crusade against the director to actually defend your own points, that become even more non-existent as you post.
Already made my point well, you're just trying to be be overly pedantic to undercut it. It's not really working, because as I said, it's not just about that one thing (which still looks bad, even if it has an explanation), it as a whole speaks for itself.
RuinerPrime
Member
I really enjoy Nolans work. His a very good director, but TDKR is easily my least favorite of his work(even insomniac!) it's not just fight choreography. It's just not a very good story and that ending was not earned in the slightest and did not make any sense.
Fancyarcher
Member
Sorry thought you were replying to my other post, where I said I was a fan of TDKR. My bad. Ha-ha! I actually don't mind watching B&R, but mostly with a group though, and some beers.
Watching it without volume, I noticed three things
1. The punches look incredibly weak and slow.
2. The scenes are actually shot well. It's the choreography that sucks.
3. Bane is really fun to watch even without being able to hear his voice thanks to how expressive Tom Hardy is and how the framing emphasizes him.
1. The punches look incredibly weak and slow.
2. The scenes are actually shot well. It's the choreography that sucks.
3. Bane is really fun to watch even without being able to hear his voice thanks to how expressive Tom Hardy is and how the framing emphasizes him.
I'm not the one twisting into a pretzel, that's probably you. Suggesting its "terrible looking" is pedantry of the absolute highest order. Pfister shot the hell out of that scene, it "looked" amazing and the only people obsessing over the choreography are a minority of people who've watched those fight scenes over and over again and closely examined gifs on the internet. When you constantly keep resorting to hyperbole and insults when people bring up the entire scope of the fight scenes, it looks like a petty crusade against Nolan.
Well duh
venom is bane
that's like spider-man without webslinging or wolverine without claws
it doesn't even make sense that he could still outmuscle batman with a breathing problem
he's like darth vader without the jedi powers
broncobuster
Banned
There's not much to comment on. It ain't a great fight. The Batman and Bane fight choreography reminds me of the Rocky movies. I do like the concept and how it cuts out the audio outside of impacts and grunts.
But the whole gifs as an argument, without audio or context, isn't a compelling case. I don't know. I remember when Luke's "force kick" from RotJ used to be a joke, but nobody took it seriously. So it's weird when gifs are used in that way. And heck, I'm guilty of doing it to highlight how poor Suicide Squad action editing was. So yeah.
I also disagree about Nolan being a poor action director overall. He's pretty good when it comes to vehicles and such. When it's people fighting or a shootout, it's rough. Take Inception's shootout with Arthur and Eames against goons on a rooftop.
Yah it is.
I posted no gifs, I posted a link to the full fight.
I was pretty specific in my post, mentioning the caliber of people involved, the budget, the context, i.e. part of a billion-dollar mega-franchise. I might have misspoken by modern cinema, I meant more like recent memory (although it's implied by joking saying if we have to go back to Steel, a 90's movie). So I'm not really putting it up against B-tier trash from the 70's or whatnot. I mean, did I really need to explain my post?
I never had a blanket worst of all-time statement. Bring up a worse choreographed fight of similar scope in a 150M+ movie, if you think this one isn't so bad. Let's see how low we can go! Hey, the more awfulness, the merrier.
Eh, different take on the character. Heath's Joker is pretty different than a lot of the Jokers in the comics but he still did an amazing job. I quite enjoyed Hardy's Bane.
He's pretty weak at them honestly. The convoy chase in The Dark Knight is riddled with amateur mistakes that is honestly surprising considering how the rest of the movie is shot. That scene breaks some film 101 rules for no real reason and its kind of astounding they were satisfied with the final outcome. His best action film is Inception where he seemed to have learned a lot form his last couple of films but even the final fight out on the mountain was incredibly messy.
I don't see the problem with changing the venom to painkillers. Bane is still physically intimidating and basically superhuman, and he still gets defeated by having his drug apparatus disrupted.
Absolutely stimulating back and forth there. You're an amazing debater.
I already said my piece in the OP, do you want me to quote myself?
By your own admission, most of the punches even look like they don't even connect lol. And the ones that do are soft and awkward looking. That's being pedantic in a fight scene, is it? I've only seen the movie once or twice, and it's pretty noticeable (I remember thinking that back breaker looked like absolute shit the first time I watched it), it's always been noticeable. You don't even have to closely examine gifs, just look at them with your eyes. Fight scenes are more than just good choreography sure, but why is it that criticism is basically null and void just because other elements are good? It just reeks of trying way too hard to justify something that is heavily flawed or bad to fit into a narrative. The fact that, again, go into this Nolan bashing stuff says a lot about where you're coming from.
Oh, the one full of misrepresentations and hyperbole? No, don't bother, it has about as much substance as the post I quoted.
I never said the criticism is null and void, just that the hyperbolic statement of them being total garbage or total shit because of mediocre choreography isn't a convincing argument when you take the cinematography, sound effects, and overall purpose of the fights into account. And when you're snidely insulting people for saying they have emotional heft to them, it discredits you.
You can make any particular sequence look bad if you edit it badly.
What this gif tells me is that whatever point is being made cannot be made without misrepresenting the film.
B&R is like the Room or Samourais (French movie from 2002, you can find it on youtube, if you're sober you will NOT thank me and yes it's so shit no one even made a copyright claim on that movie being uploaded fully to youtube).
I heard these complaints years after the movie, nothing right after it (the complaints were rightfully about the plot and pacing) and the action was never an issue with the trilogy, in fact the restraint Nolan uses in his action scenes is admirable. I feel the shittiness of the story sours everything else from TDKR and it's quite understandable.
Movies like Suicide Squad had people walking out the theatre saying the action was shit, it didn't take months or years to develop. Same with let's say Matrix Reloaded, I clearly remember walking out of the cinema and hearing people laughing about the mass agent fight and how it looked like shit.
So yeah we are not even close to those kind of turds with this one.
Movies like Suicide Squad had people walking out the theatre saying the action was shit, it didn't take months or years to develop. Same with let's say Matrix Reloaded, I clearly remember walking out of the cinema and hearing people laughing about the mass agent fight and how it looked like shit.
So yeah we are not even close to those kind of turds with this one.
Discotheque
Banned
Choreography was a bit shit but I think it's one of the best fight scenes we've had in this genre tbh thanks somehow to the presentation around it
The setting and lighting was really cool. And the way he toyed with Batman was great too. It was all such a hopeless moment for the hero. I especially liked that moment when Batman is trapped in the sewer and turns around to meet Bane
In an ideal world his Batman movies would have had the choreography of Snyder's warehouse scene. Which accomplished what Nolan was trying to do in a better fashion imo
The setting and lighting was really cool. And the way he toyed with Batman was great too. It was all such a hopeless moment for the hero. I especially liked that moment when Batman is trapped in the sewer and turns around to meet Bane
In an ideal world his Batman movies would have had the choreography of Snyder's warehouse scene. Which accomplished what Nolan was trying to do in a better fashion imo
I don't really see what the problem is with using gifs and stuff to illustrate points. As long as there's no really editing by the poster and it's the same as it was shown in the movie, it's fine to me. I feel like this whole 'but the music, but the emotion,' really doesn't hold clout and is more of just a cop-out to try and justify shitty action scenes. I mean, if the scene nails those things, that's good, but it doesn't really stop the action itself from looking bad lol.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yes, you posted a clip, and then others posted gifs. I'm responding to the entirety of the thread, not just you, Jett.
Well yeah.
Because people paid money, and if something doesn't satisfy or looks off, they're going to comment on it. Especially considering the "prestige" Nolan carries in the blockbuster space.
They made the choice to cut wider on those fights, they made the choice the minimize the cuts, things largely done in Nolan's first two Batman movies to work around the awkwardness of the costume, however annoying they might be in the moment. At the very least, they atleast partially sold Batman as moving faster or more fierce than the actor in the suit could actually pull off.
Yes, none of it is real, but by that token, nobody should be commenting on when a green screen shot looks terrible, or when a CG character looks really badly blended into an environment.
They made the choice to include a physical villain like Bane, and they made the choice to adapt really the only thing that character is famous for. The film's biggest moment is this fight, so when it comes off as this awkward, it's inevitably going to leave people disappointed. Even when people complain about the big fight at the end of Wonder Woman, you can atleast argue that the physical confrontation is the least important part of that confrontation and it has far more to do with Diana's emotional journey. But here, the title fight is the main event. It doesn't help that all the fights in this movie are pretty fucking weak, and not particularly fun to watch. Which is only made funnier when Batman talks them up with lines like "THEY'RE TRAINED KILLERS!"
DKR is far from terrible, and this is far from the worst fight, but for the expectation this movie had, this sequence was an enormous letdown.