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Blizzard: Valve shouldn't trademark DOTA
- Thread starter Pooya
- Start date
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I'd feel fine because they would likely be using the full OG team and putting Valve resources behind them.Margalis said:I wonder how people would feel if Blizzard announced they were making Natural Selection 2 and trademarked the name Natural Selection.
>_<Margalis said:I wonder how people would feel if Blizzard announced they were making Natural Selection 2 and trademarked the name Natural Selection.
Natural Selection 2 has already been announced, and is made by the people who made the first.
EnjoyIncubus
Member
And that is but a fraction of the millions they will make off the DotA name, something they have no right owning the copyright to.Rubius said:Valve gave 45 000$ in royalties to people who created the Polycount weapons. 45 000$ for the 5 chosen person who got there item in the game. Woa
Margalis said:I wonder how people would feel if Blizzard announced they were making Natural Selection 2 and trademarked the name Natural Selection.
Natural Selection was already trademarked by its creator...
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78115381
EnjoyIncubus said:And that is but a fraction of the millions they will make off the DotA name, something they have no right owning the copyright to.
That's probably why they don't own the copyright to it.
EnjoyIncubus
Member
Won said:That's probably why they don't own the copyright to it.
Ok, trademark. My point still stands. You are arguing semantics.
Doubt many will buy it for the name >.>EnjoyIncubus said:And that is but a fraction of the millions they will make off the DotA name, something they have no right owning the copyright to.
EnjoyIncubus
Member
markot said:Doubt many will buy it for the name >.>
So you're saying that Valve is not going to benefit from owning the DotA name, a name that millions of people are familiar with? The playerbase alone is estimated to be over 10 million.
Lostconfused
Member
Natural Selection 2 is already being made though.Margalis said:I wonder how people would feel if Blizzard announced they were making Natural Selection 2 and trademarked the name Natural Selection.
Edit: Yeah sorry, I am really slow at times.
EnjoyIncubus said:Ok, trademark. My point still stands. You are arguing semantics.
If they don't have the right of owning it, somebody will sue them I guess.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
No, trademark and copyright are two very different things.EnjoyIncubus said:Ok, trademark. My point still stands. You are arguing semantics.
A copyright is the right of the author or creator to have control over the distribution his or her work. The Trademark that Valve is applying for is solely the right to use the name "DOTA"
They will benefit, but 99% of the people will buy it if it is a good game, not because it is called this or that.EnjoyIncubus said:So you're saying that Valve is not going to benefit from owning the DotA name, a name that millions of people are familiar with? The playerbase alone is estimated to be over 10 million.
Teknopathetic
Member
"I wonder how people would feel if Blizzard announced they were making Natural Selection 2 and trademarked the name Natural Selection."
Oh boy.
Oh boy.
EnjoyIncubus
Member
The_Technomancer said:No, trademark and copyright are two very different things.
A copyright is the right of the author or creator to have control over the distribution his or her work. The Trademark that Valve is applying for is solely the right to use the name "DOTA"
I am aware of the differences. Again, my point still stands.
markot said:They will benefit, but 99% of the people will buy it if it is a good game, not because it is called this or that.
Lol, uh huh.
Battle.net 2.0 is fine. Though that's mutually exclusive to the argument.Mudkips said:The problem is Blizzard's definition of "the community" is their locked-in, tied-down, extras-for-pay, Battle.net 2.0 service.
Knowing gamers I don't think that's true ><markot said:They will benefit, but 99% of the people will buy it if it is a good game, not because it is called this or that.
Kifimbo said:Natural Selection was already trademarked by its creator...
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78115381
If I'm reading that correctly it was not.
"Current Status: Abandoned after an inter partes decision by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board."
Natural Selection 2 is already being made though
Well then they better hope Blizzard doesn't trademark the name!
You trademark the name BEFORE the game is made.Margalis said:If I'm reading that correctly it was not.
"Current Status: Abandoned after an inter partes decision by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board."
Well then they better hope Blizzard doesn't trademark the name!
Like Pokemon, hey trademarked Mew before the name Pokemon.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Well then they better hope Blizzard doesn't trademark the name!"
If Blizzard trademarked the name after absorbing unknown worlds, nobody would give a shit.
If Blizzard trademarked the name after absorbing unknown worlds, nobody would give a shit.
do you manually insert quotation marks often?Teknopathetic said:"I wonder how people would feel if Blizzard announced they were making Natural Selection 2 and trademarked the name Natural Selection."
Oh boy.
edit: looks like you do and sometimes leave off the full post. having to ctrl-f is pretty annoying mang.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its his style. *shrugs*DeathNote said:do you manually insert quotation marks often?
edit: looks like you do and sometimes leave off the full post. having to ctrl-f is pretty annoying mang.
charlequin
Banned
Zertez said:I dont see how Valve or Icrefrog can lay claim to the name to trademark it to begin with.
Anyone can register a trademark. They just have to intend to use it in commerce, not be infringing on any existing trademark, and not be using a term which is already in such common use within the field that it's deemed untrademarkable. Far moreso than for copyright, all that's important here is that you be the current user of a name (which Icefrog unquestionably was.)
Halycon said:It's still "the community's" game as far as that goes.
Plus someone else can always fork the map again if they want to keep expanding on DotA All-Stars.
EnjoyIncubus said:They are essentially taking a game that is the product of over a decade of development, right down to the actual heroes and items themselves (which were designed, developed, and tested by members of the DotA community over the course of many, many years) and copyrighting it as their own.
The copyright aspect of this is really not at issue at all. You're almost certainly looking at Icefrog as the recognized author of the DotA All-Stars map and thus the only figure whose permission is necessary to reuse any of it. The existence of community contributions is really pretty irrelevant in the broader scheme of things.
EnjoyIncubus said:Do you not understand that they are basically ripping off the work of probably hundreds of people and then making a profit off of it?
No one's getting "ripped off" here. People who contribute effort to a fan project with a singular author are putting their work in that person's hands, to do with as they choose. That's the way these things work. I think it's pretty obvious that, for example, Icefrog (or any previous DotA developer) would have told someone to fuck off if they showed up four years after "their" hero had been integrated into the game and suddenly demanded it be removed -- and I doubt anyone would question such an action. That should serve as a pretty good demonstration of exactly how much ownership stake any fan contributor has to this project -- i.e. none whatsoever.
Scrow said:blizzard should just call their SC2 custom map "Blizzard All-Stars"
They should just call it DotA ><
If Valve forces them to change the name then they're gonna look like the bad guys.
They cant. The name DotA is owned by Valve now. Blizzard will get sued and Blizzard have a reputation, still.hamchan said:They should just call it DotA ><
If Valve forces them to change the name then they're gonna look like the bad guys.
Blizzard got slow and didnt do anything to protect the DotA name.
Technosteve
Banned
Rubius said:They cant. The name DotA is owned by Valve now. Blizzard will get sued and Blizzard have a reputation, still.
Blizzard got slow and didnt do anything to protect the DotA name.
nah just means they can't sells it for profit
Rubius said:They cant. The name DotA is owned by Valve now. Blizzard will get sued and Blizzard have a reputation, still.
Blizzard got slow and didnt do anything to protect the DotA name.
Blizzard don't want to stop others from using it.. They want everyone to use it <3
BishopLamont
Banned
Blizzard thought "DotA" on SC2 would be where the fanbase will migrate too, too bad the map is plain ass. You snooze, you lose. Hiring Icefrog and registering the DotA name are both the right and smart moves, right being that the map does belong to the community, Warcraft 3 was merely a platform for the map, similar to games and consoles and smart being that Valve will be making a killing off this, Icefrog isn't a bad programmer either, I'd say he's the perfecter of perfection when it comes to the coding world.
Yeah...only if its on their game.Syth_Blade22 said:Blizzard don't want to stop others from using it.. They want everyone to use it <3
No it's not. Valve filed an application for the DOTA tradmark (also DOTA2 and DOTA3) , but they haven't been granted it yet. DOTA-ALLSTARS LLC also filed a trademark application for DOTA (as well as Defense of the Ancients and DOTA-ALLSTARS). None of these DOTA-related trademarks have been approved yet.Rubius said:They cant. The name DotA is owned by Valve now.
BishopLamont said:
Yeah...only if its on their game.
I must have missed this quote where they said no one else can use DoTA other than blizzard, do you mind sharing it with me (not being sarcastic.. unless their is no quote)
EviLore said:Blizz automatically owning everything created with the SC2 toolkit is far more anticonsumer than commercializing a sequel to a mod with the person responsible for much of its success on board.
It'd help the quality of discourse if people attacked Blizzard's arguments, rather than Blizzard the company.
charlequin said:Plus someone else can always fork the map again if they want to keep expanding on DotA All-Stars.
Won't Blizzard have to act to defend their trademark, to avoid having it become genericized (and thus useless as a trademark)?
charlequin said:The copyright aspect of this is really not at issue at all. You're almost certainly looking at Icefrog as the recognized author of the DotA All-Stars map and thus the only figure whose permission is necessary to reuse any of it. The existence of community contributions is really pretty irrelevant in the broader scheme of things.
Does the license say that authors relinquish their copyright rights? Otherwise it's not as simple as this at all. See discussions about switching open source licenses when, say, GPLv3 came out.
I was under the impression that DOTA 2 wouldn't actually reuse anything from the fan project exactly for this reason, though.
I think the following definitions are in order.
Valve is well within their rights to trademark the name. They are making a new game, and they want to protect it. Blizzard can still make a DotA-style game, they just can't call it DotA. I'm hoping everyone is denied the trademark so the community retains the name, but if Valve gets it I can't complain.
Dictionary.com said:Trademark. noun.
Any name, symbol, figure, letter, word, or mark adopted and used by a manufacturer or merchant in order to designate his or her goods and to distinguish them from those manufactured or sold by others. A trademark is a proprietary term that is usually registered with the Patent and Trademark Office to assure its exclusive use by its owner.
Dictionary.com said:Copyright. noun.
The exclusive right to make copies, license, and otherwise exploit a literary, musical, or artistic work, whether printed, audio, video, etc.: works granted such right by law on or after January 1, 1978, are protected for the lifetime of the author or creator and for a period of 50 years after his or her death.
Valve is well within their rights to trademark the name. They are making a new game, and they want to protect it. Blizzard can still make a DotA-style game, they just can't call it DotA. I'm hoping everyone is denied the trademark so the community retains the name, but if Valve gets it I can't complain.
charlequin
Banned
obonicus said:Won't Blizzard have to act to defend their trademark, to avoid having it become genericized (and thus useless as a trademark)?
Even assuming they do (and assuming Valve care about DOTA becoming genericized rather than simply ensuring that no one else can prevent their use of the name), just call it ATOD All-Stars or something and carry on.
Does the license say that authors relinquish their copyright rights?
In the context of a game mod as "creative work," I think you'd be hard-pressed to justify the suggestion of a hero or power (i.e. a chunk of numerical, systemic "content") as carrying authorship, especially since it's well-established that the numerical, systemic aspects of game systems themselves are not protected by copyright law. Instead, the only thing protected is the work in its entirety, whose sum total authors number three.
If legitimate authorship were present here for suggested heroes and powers, you'd already have a copyright violation situation present with Heroes of Newerth utilizing copies of said heroes and powers in their own game.
BishopLamont
Banned
Blizzards cry of unfairness is because they were too slow to register and capitalise off the DotA name, do you really need a quote to prove why they wouldn't let anyone use the name if they successfully trademark it?Syth_Blade22 said:I must have missed this quote where they said no one else can use DoTA other than blizzard, do you mind sharing it with me (not being sarcastic.. unless their is no quote)
BishopLamont said:Blizzards cry of unfairness is because they were too slow to register and capitalise off the DotA name, do you really need a quote to prove why they wouldn't let anyone use the name if they successfully trademark it?
No, I want a quote that tells me Blizzard don't want anyone else using the DotA name aswell as them.
Shanadeus said:Wow, I had no idea Valve and Blizzard had such fanboys.
Really? No idea? They're basically the two biggest and best PC-centric developers in the world.
No they aren't.notsol337 said:Valve is well within their rights to trademark the name. They are making a new game, and they want to protect it. Blizzard can still make a DotA-style game, they just can't call it DotA. I'm hoping everyone is denied the trademark so the community retains the name, but if Valve gets it I can't complain.
FieryBalrog
Member
EmCeeGramr said:Are people here really assuming that none of the final game is going to be the product of Valve's creative staff?
Valve has basically said as much, so there's no assumption required. All they've done is update the graphics and implement community features. Its the same one map, the same heroes, the same items with some possible minor tweaks to the recipe system, etc.
Zzoram said:Blizzard thinks Valve shouldn't trademark DOTA so they're going to try to get the trademark?
Blizzard isn't trying to get the trademark. This is just Pardo opining about Valve's move.
FieryBalrog said:Valve has basically said as much, so there's no assumption required. All they've done is update the graphics and implement community features. Its the same one map, the same heroes, the same items with some possible minor tweaks to the recipe system, etc.
And like TF2, they'll probably update it constantly, adding new heroes, items, recipes, maps, modes, features, etc.
Heck even in-game tutorials, coaching mode, and AI bots are new things that affect gameplay.
Zzoram said:Blizzard thinks Valve shouldn't trademark DOTA so they're going to try to get the trademark? Whatever. I don't care who gets the trademark as long as DOTA2 and DOTA in WC3/SC2 are all allowed to co-exist.
This is what I thought Zzoram, but no one can show me Blizzard saying they are trying to trademark it. So I'm thinking this is NOT the case, and Blizzard are just saying it should be free to use
FieryBalrog mentioned the community stuff, and AI bots are no replacement for players.Zzoram said:And like TF2, they'll probably update it constantly, adding new heroes, items, recipes, maps, modes, features, etc.
Heck even in-game tutorials, coaching mode, and AI bots are new things that affect gameplay.
Icefrog already does update and add heroes on the original DotA, except the heroes he adds tend to be unbalance, and he still doesn't address major design issues with the game.
BishopLamont
Banned
facepalm.gifSyth_Blade22 said:No, I want a quote that tells me Blizzard don't want anyone else using the DotA name aswell as them.
Tell us how LoL is balanced and they addresses denying by removing it. I like that shpeel.JWong said:FieryBalrog mentioned the community stuff, and AI bots are no replacement for players.
Icefrog already does update and add heroes on the original DotA, except the heroes he adds tend to be unbalance, and he still doesn't address major design issues with the game.
I disagree. The huge amount of heroes Icefrog has implemented have been heavily tested and, barring a quick tweak or two, mix perfectly within the game.JWong said:Icefrog already does update and add heroes on the original DotA, except the heroes he adds tend to be unbalance
The same thing always happens when a new hero is introduced: people don't know what to expect from the hero, they don't fully understand its capabilities, and whenever they play a game against one and die they scream "OMG THE NEW HERO IS SO IMBA OMGGG!" 99% of the time it's their fault for dying and they just didn't understand what they were up against. After a week or two of getting used to them nobody complains anymore.