• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Bundles of Awesome - The Official WiiWare Discussion Thread

Gyrostar: the game is definitely sub 30fps, which kind of kills it for me. It's especially annoying during bonus levels, which are very fast: the choppy framerate doesn't allow you to see what's coming with enough anticipation and control your ship accordingly.
Normal levels are fun (played through the first 5 ones), the grapping hook is a good idea and adds a little strategy. Music is OK, ships don't look very good, the track looks very flashy but I would definitely have given up a some special effects for 60fps, which in my opinion is a requirement for this kind of games.
 

Lee N

Membre
PhlivoSong said:
Few things...

1. If the levels are procedurally generated shouldn't there be infinite levels? I've always associated procedural generation with 'randomly drawn levels.' Are they saying they've designed 50 levels but chose to procedurally draw them rather than using pre-built models to save hard drive space? Or are they saying the levels are mathematically designed, and we've capped it at 50 levels to play?
Procedurally Generated really just means that they've designed a system in which they can build content from a set of primitives, the system then stores each action required to generate a model from said primitives as opposed to storing the entire finished mesh. It is not to be confused with randomly generated.
 

Proven

Member
It's too easy!

I played by myself, and use the Wiimote by itself. Maybe if I try motion controls it'll be harder, but I'm an Excite Truck player...

But right now it's too easy! I played the first 10 levels straight through, and got to the bonus stage easily on all but two of them. The enemies are really just distractions, as the energy balls that are your top priority are very brightly colored and often spawn on the opposite side of the track an enemy is.

Aspects I enjoy:

1. As someone mentioned, the grapple claw, as it makes things a little bit quicker, with the catch that you have to hold still.

2. Energy and powerups fly away when you're shooting them. If you shoot them into the next energy gate they'll disappear. This means that enemies can use powerups as walls, and if you're absentmindedly shooting while you're launching the grappling hook, you may push the item too far away.

These two things mean you have to be careful of how you position yourself and when you shoot, so the basic gameplay isn't too simple.

But either the tracks are too long or there's too much energy passing by because it's still sickeningly easy for me to get through. There's no energy penalty if your ship gets blown up, and you're back on the track in two seconds. It never gets fast enough to make catching the energy a challenge unless you just didn't notice it in time.

Maybe on the higher levels it gets harder. Whenever you start a game up you can immediately go to any level you've made it up to, whether or not you've actually beaten it, so if you get stuck on a level you can quickly replay it.

They allow you to put in a name, but names don't save, so everytime you play you have to re-input your name if you care to, and you have to repeatedly tap up or down as holding it does nothing.

One thing I did like, for those people who didn't shell out for more controllers, is that the game allows you to play with the nunchuck or classic controller attachments by themselves, and then you can have a second person use the Wii remote while it's still attached.

Overall, they should have made everything shorter and more intense. The bonus stages are half right with the high speed you get towards the end, barely able to tell which way the energy is flying towards you, but the first half is so freaking slow you can collect over half the bar so it negates the later challenge.

Well, here's hoping towards the next 40 stages.
 

dyls

Member
Is this the first game to allow you to use the CC and the Wiimote that it's connected to at the same time? I didn't even know that was possible, and it certainly opens up some interesting avenues. Somebody get the Bomberman team to give us 8-player local multi, STAT.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
dyls said:
Is this the first game to allow you to use the CC and the Wiimote that it's connected to at the same time?
the system menu does it - you can move the hand by both IR pointer and by the left analog stick.
 

HUELEN10

Member
dyls said:
Is this the first game to allow you to use the CC and the Wiimote that it's connected to at the same time? I didn't even know that was possible, and it certainly opens up some interesting avenues. Somebody get the Bomberman team to give us 8-player local multi, STAT.
Does bomberman require just 1 button?

If so, think about it.

it would start off with 8 players on 4 gcn controllers. You use the stick and the trigger.
Then you would have 4 people on the remotes.
Then you would have 8 on the classic controllers.

20 player bomberman.
 

hclflow

Member
HUELEN10 said:
Does bomberman require just 1 button?

If so, think about it.

it would start off with 8 players on 4 gcn controllers. You use the stick and the trigger.
Then you would have 4 people on the remotes.
Then you would have 8 on the classic controllers.

20 player bomberman.

....................
 

jrricky

Banned
AugustDivision said:
More Gyrostarr impressions please.
Its great. presentation is impressive and gameplay is addictive. I find it a little easy though, im at level 11 and I died only twice. Ill play some more later but its worth the 700 points. I had to get rid of star soldier though to download it. :(
 
Lee N said:
Procedurally Generated really just means that they've designed a system in which they can build content from a set of primitives, the system then stores each action required to generate a model from said primitives as opposed to storing the entire finished mesh. It is not to be confused with randomly generated.

Thanks for the info. So it's relevant because of how small the size of the game is as a result, but it's still pretty odd that they mention that in a news release. Did they use some specific audio codecs to reduce the size of sound files? Tell me all about it all!
 

HUELEN10

Member
hclflow said:
It's still one of the dumbest fucking ideas I've ever heard. I mean, just think about it.

Seriously.
How is it dumb? Unusual, maybe, but dumb? Is it the 2 people one pad thing? It has been done before quite well. Bomberman is better with more people.
 

Lee N

Membre
PhlivoSong said:
Did they use some specific audio codecs to reduce the size of sound files? Tell me all about it all!
Well.. music can be procedurally generated too. Instead of starting with geometric primitives you start with basic sounds like sine wave, sawtooth, square wave, noise, etc - then you can user various filters and stuff to get the sound you want out of it, then you have a sequencer where you put a song together with it. The actual song file will be very small because there will be no sample data inside it, just the instructions on how to recreate the song.
 

Jiggy

Member
So, Gyrostarr. It was my most anticipated game for WiiWare, but it turns out that Toki Tori and Dr. Mario are probably ahead of it in my mind. Likely Defend Your Castle too. Quick breakdown.



What I love:
-Conceptually, Gyrostarr is very interesting. If I could have it my way, then fusing the aesthetic of a futuristic racing game with the dynamics of a 2D shooter would be a field that many game developers would begin looking into. It's akin to an on-rails shooter, but faster in appearance (though not necessarily so in practical gameplay; for example--and sticking purely to games playable on Wii--Sin and Punishment is far more hectic despite visually "seeming" slower).


What I like:
-Multiple control schemes. This is becoming something of a standard for Wii, but that's not going to stop me from praising it. This is the kind of reality I want.
-Shooting powerups pushes them away from you. This gives incentive to not consistently shoot, which is a rarity for a game with unlimited ammo.
-Multiple ship colors. It's not much, but if I can control a pink ship, that's almost unanimously a positive thing!
-Grappling distant items is a rather neat idea that differentiates Gyrostarr somewhat.


What I don't like:
-Generic techno music. I love techno if it's done right, but this really, really isn't. D:
-Only a few music tracks. Actually, if I'm being honest, I'm not entirely sure there's more than one track--it sounds so painfully generic that either there's only one track or they're all so bland that I literally can't tell.
-Bonus levels, which are movement only (no shooting and no grappling, just collecting energy) and involve insane numbers of speed boosts, come up after every level. That's not much of a "bonus"; it's more like a staple feature. This in itself wouldn't be problematic, but it becomes such because 1) there's so much less to do in these levels, 2) Gyrostarr doesn't exactly have a movement system compelling enough to center full levels around it, and 3) it's impossible to die or get wounded. I think, at most, bonuses should be after every other level.


What I hate:
-30 FPS, or whatever horrid framerate this is running at--I wouldn't be surprised if it was lower, honestly. I realize that I'm not a "graphics whore" and so perhaps I'm being extreme, but for this sort of game I'd very happily take graphics on par with Mario Kart 64 if they could at least run at 60 FPS. Bonus levels especially, due to their number of speed boosts, look much jerkier than they should because of the framerate. If Gyrostarr 2 is ever made, which (despite my criticisms) I very much think it should be, 60 FPS should without question be High Voltage Software's first priority on the list of improvements.
-It's very difficult to identify when I've taken a hit. Enemy shots make no noticeable visible impact, nor is there a sound effect. This keeps me glancing at my health meter more often than I should be, just to check whether I've been shot at any point in the last couple minutes or not.
-The first level is awful and almost single-handedly killed any buzz I might have had. It gets better after that, but wow, what a hideously slow introduction.
-Way too easy. Way, way too easy. After ten levels (meaning ten normal levels and ten bonus levels, not five of each), I hadn't felt a speck of challenge--and, again, this is despite the fact that I can't even tell when I've taken damage. One might think that would make it slightly harder, but no, not at all. I mean, I'm not one of those types who basically wants everything to be Contra And Up on the scale of difficulty, but I at least need something. :/




So... yeah. Maybe it gets better later on, but after 58 minutes of play I'm really not feeling it yet. By level eight or so I only decided to push onward to level ten because I figured I might as well shoot for double digits, not because I was enjoying it as much as I thought I would. Eh.
 

Nicktals

Banned
HUELEN10 said:
How is it dumb? Unusual, maybe, but dumb? Is it the 2 people one pad thing? It has been done before quite well. Bomberman is better with more people.

It's not dumb at all. But you stopped short. You could have 2 USB keyboards plugged in, and you could have like 6 people on each keyboard.

32 PERSON LOCAL MULTIPLAYER.

sooo awesome.


=/
 

cicero

Member
HUELEN10 said:
How is it dumb? Unusual, maybe, but dumb? Is it the 2 people one pad thing? It has been done before quite well. Bomberman is better with more people.
You really should have taken his advice to "just think about it. Seriously."

Do you really need someone to spell out the obvious for you?
 

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Nicktals said:
It's not dumb at all. But you stopped short. You could have 2 USB keyboards plugged in, and you could have like 6 people on each keyboard.

32 PERSON LOCAL MULTIPLAYER.

sooo awesome.


=/

Dude, I'm about to blow your mind: two usb hubs (seven ports apiece) = 104 person local multiplayer!
 

hclflow

Member
What a disappointment Gyrostarr is. I was looking forward to this game more than anything on Wiiware short of LostWinds and Star Soldier.

Before I get into what's wrong, let me say the core gameplay concept is actually good. When the game hits its stride and you forgive its many shortcomings, the action can become rather frenetic trying to grab every energy pickup, destroy every enemy and avoid all incoming fire to keep your score multiplier up.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of things wrong with Gyrostarr that in combination pretty much ruin the experience.

- Framerate: I think it's locked at 25fps or something awful like that. I don't believe it's even running at 30fps. It's a serious detriment to the game, and its negative impact cannot be understated, particularly when blazing through the bonus levels trying to get every pickup. 60fps or bust, please.

- Slow start: The first three levels almost made me laugh this game off within ten minutes. They are totally not fun. Boring. Starting on level 4, things start to pick up.

- Bonus levels are a chore. All you do is pick up energy for points. They'd maybe be better if the horrible framerate wasn't constantly hampering your ability to be a smooth operator. But I doubt it.

- Where's the contrast? Most of the time there is a bright blue gate in the distance drawing the track as you move through the levels. Energy pickups -- a vital part of progression -- are also a very similar shade of bright blue. There is almost no distinction between the gate and energy at a distance, which adds unnecessary difficulty to the game when it starts to get more hectic. Besides that, everything seems to blend in too much in the distance, when I should be able to take down far-away enemies and grapple power-ups with ease. Also, enemy shots don't stand out enough from everything else to know when to get the hell out of the way. Designers should've definitely went for a simpler, cleaner approach to the graphics instead of this muddy mess.

- The game is pretty ugly. The electronica is downright generic and uninspired.

- No leaderboards? What the fuck? Seriously.

- The framerate is such a bitch it needs another mention.

I will likely play more of it just because I really want to like the game. As of now though? Gyrostarr gets a big, fat DO NOT BUY from me.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Jiggy37 said:
-Way too easy. Way, way too easy. After ten levels (meaning ten normal levels and ten bonus levels, not five of each), I hadn't felt a speck of challenge--and, again, this is despite the fact that I can't even tell when I've taken damage. One might think that would make it slightly harder, but no, not at all. I mean, I'm not one of those types who basically wants everything to be Contra And Up on the scale of difficulty, but I at least need something. :/
hmm, i'm yet to play gyrostarr, but from what you say and comparing that to my protothea experience it may turn out just as well that the latter is an overall better shmup than gyro. protothea does have the same off-putting start, but it does turn into a challenge not that much further in. and the fps is quite steady. i'm yet to finish the game, though, so i'm not giving my final verdict on it just yet. but i'd be curious to read the impressions of somebody who's played sufficiently both games.
 

hclflow

Member
blu said:
hmm, i'm yet to play gyrostarr, but from what you say and comparing that to my protothea experience it may turn out just as well that the latter is an overall better shmup than gyro. protothea does have the same off-putting start, but it does turn into a challenge not that much further in. and the fps is quite steady. i'm yet to finish the game, though, so i'm not giving my final verdict on it just yet. but i'd be curious to read the impressions of somebody who's played sufficiently both games.

I've played over an hour of both and can say that Protothea sucks more. Its core gameplay is so slow and extremely boring that I was left wondering if one should even refer to it as a shmup, as it would likely be an insult to the genre.
 

bryehn

Member
Wow, Gyrostarr really is pretty bad. It's slow, has some framerate issues and man...what a muddy looking game. Everything just sort of blurs together in an ugly ugly mess. It's barren of features as well. I highly recommend saving your money for next week. Wish I had.

Shoulda known coming from High Voltage though. Danger indeed.
 
bryehn said:
Shoulda known coming from High Voltage though. Danger indeed.

We already knew that their track record was less than impressive, but if they can screw up a simple game like this... well, it doesn't exactly make one optimistic about Animales, let alone The Conduit.
 

pakkit

Banned
It's funny, I have yet to read a critically negative review from the websitez, but GAF seems pretty impassioned when it comes to anti-Gyrostarr.

I'm going to give it a day before I make my own decision.

What display are you playing on hclflow? I know it's looked good in the videos, so maybe it's a game made for 480p? :\
 

hclflow

Member
pakkit said:
It's funny, I have yet to read a critically negative review from the websitez, but GAF seems pretty impassioned when it comes to anti-Gyrostarr.

I'm going to give it a day before I make my own decision.

What display are you playing on hclflow? I know it's looked good in the videos, so maybe it's a game made for 480p? :\

42-inch plasma. I'm afraid there's nothing that can save this game from its totally muddy presentation. Don't get me wrong, there's fun to be had, but you have to be extremely forgiving.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
hclflow said:
I've played over an hour of both and can say that Protothea sucks more. Its core gameplay is so slow and extremely boring that I was left wondering if one should even refer to it as a shmup, as it would likely be an insult to the genre.
hmm. thanks. btw, what level did you reach in protothea?
 
pakkit said:
It's funny, I have yet to read a critically negative review from the websitez, but GAF seems pretty impassioned when it comes to anti-Gyrostarr.

I'm going to give it a day before I make my own decision.

What display are you playing on hclflow? I know it's looked good in the videos, so maybe it's a game made for 480p? :\

The game doesn't really look good. At all. It's not even entirely widescreen like most other WiiWare games (black bars on both sides). The choppy framerate doesn't help either.

I'm playing on a 60" LCD upconverted via HDMI through my receiver.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Uh oh. I don't think I'm going to bite it for Gyrostarr. Which sucks, cause it could have been SO GOOD. Thanks guys.

I'll just get Toki Tori instead.
 

hclflow

Member
blu said:
hmm. thanks. btw, what level did you reach in protothea?

Four or five I think? It was a city or something. Does it honestly get any better after that? Because honestly, the game almost put me to sleep on a few occasions up to that point. What was funnier is that in a game that fucking slow, there was an AWESOME BULLET-TIME POWERUP. God, what an abortion.

ivysaur12 said:
Uh oh. I don't think I'm going to bite it for Gyrostarr. Which sucks, cause it could have been SO GOOD. Thanks guys.

I'll just get Toki Tori instead.

Wise choice.
 

jj984jj

He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
Father_Brain said:
We already knew that their track record was less than impressive, but if they can screw up a simple game like this... well, it doesn't exactly make one optimistic about Animales, let alone The Conduit.
Not to mention this was suppose to be the first game showing off their in-house engine. Sub 30 FPS. :lol

I was keeping an eye on this but it seems like High Voltage just failed again.
 

agrajag

Banned
the game looks pretty sharp on my 42 inch LCD. The eye candy is the biggest draw of the game for me. I agree it's somewhat of a dissappointment, but many people here are clearly overreacting. The main issue for me is the framerate and the draw distance(which I'm surprised no one else complained about). Draw distance shouldn't be an issue in this day and age. When I see things materialize out of thin air, it ruins the experience for me. Yeah, I know things are appearing from the force field at the end of the track or whatever, and I don't care. The gameplay is pretty basic, but it works. I like the grappling hook. I don't mind the techno either. I actually find this more enjoyable than Lost Winds so far.
 

hclflow

Member
agrajag said:
the game looks pretty sharp on my 42 inch LCD. The eye candy is the biggest draw of the game for me. I agree it's somewhat of a dissappointment, but many people here are clearly overreacting. The main issue for me is the framerate and the draw distance(which I'm surprised no one else complained about). Draw distance shouldn't be an issue in this day and age. When I see things materialize out of thin air, it ruins the experience for me. Yeah, I know things are appearing from the force field at the end of the track or whatever, and I don't care. The gameplay is pretty basic, but it works. I like the grappling hook. I don't mind the techno either. I actually find this more enjoyable than Lost Winds so far.

To each his own, but I was clearly not overreacting. If you think this is eye candy... hoo boy. I've even played up to level 23 now. It's not getting better.

Also, the draw distance isn't an issue. The fact that you can't make out enemy and pickup patterns from a suitable distance, however, is.
 

agrajag

Banned
hclflow said:
To each his own, but I was clearly not overreacting. If you think this is eye candy... hoo boy. I've even played up to level 23 now. It's not getting better.

Also, the draw distance isn't an issue. The fact that you can't make out enemy and pickup patterns from a suitable distance, however, is.

Well, the draw distance was the first thing I noticed about the game, it's pretty jarring. I can make out eneimes just fine, however :p
 

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
so....................

how do you guys like the final fantasy sim after all's said and done?
 

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
mattiewheels said:
so....................

how do you guys like the final fantasy sim after all's said and done?
I still feel like playing it. I've started my second playthrough to try to beat all the dungeons this time, but didn't play much yet because I've been busy with The Answer chapter in Persona 3:Fes. I plan to go back to it as soon as I get more time.
 

botticus

Member
mattiewheels said:
so....................

how do you guys like the final fantasy sim after all's said and done?
I haven't yet finished my first playthrough, though I think I'm right at the end and somewhere in the vicinity of Day 110. It gets slightly more tedious as you go on with less things to do on a daily basis, but there's still a hint of addiction, and I've certainly put more than enough hours into it to justify a $15 price tag. I think my last count was just over 20.

Will I decide I want to buy some DLC and replay it? Eh, not sure.
 

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
Yeah, I got all of the first batch of DLC on a whim, but I don't see this happening again.
 

birdchili

Member
mattiewheels said:
so....................

how do you guys like the final fantasy sim after all's said and done?
the pacing goes all to hell at the end, and you have far less creative control over the town than i'd prefer, but i feel i got $15 of entertainment out of it (i did finished it, though my last few hours were decidedly "going through the motions"). someone else said it has a bit of a harvest moon vibe going on, and i mostly agree with that - you're trying to fit a bunch of specific actions and running around into each day, and sometimes it's hard to get everything done.

the morale system is also stupendously terrible - there's a fairly big incentive to run around town talking to people during the day, which is just about the least entertaining gameplay mechanism ever invented (they never have anything remotely interesting to say, and even if they did - chasing people about town and clicking on them?).

there's a piece of a really fun game in there. i do hope they make another and spend some substantial time giving you more options and interesting stuff to do.
 

agrajag

Banned
I'm honestly really enjoying Gyrostarr, at least in short bursts. That's what Wii is all about amirite? I've gotten used to the framerate, so it's not really that jarring to me anymore, and I can anticipate items and enimies with some proficiency now. Some of the bonus levels are too fucking fast for the framerate though. I really enjoy the grappling hook mechanic, it's pretty fun. The graphics look very pleasing to my eye, the backgrounds are vibrant, and the game is absolutely jaggy-free (I play my Wii in 480i, that may be the reason, however there is quite a bit of aliaising in other games, like Zelda), with some cool effects here and there.

I think a lot of people who are dissapointed in this expected something comparable to an off the shelf product, and not appreciating it for what it is: a fun, if flawed, budget product.
 

hclflow

Member
agrajag said:
I'm honestly really enjoying Gyrostarr, at least in short bursts. That's what Wii is all about amirite? I've gotten used to the framerate, so it's not really that jarring to me anymore, and I can anticipate items and enimies with some proficiency now. Some of the bonus levels are too fucking fast for the framerate though. I really enjoy the grappling hook mechanic, it's pretty fun. The graphics look very pleasing to my eye, the backgrounds are vibrant, and the game is absolutely jaggy-free (I play my Wii in 480i, that may be the reason, however there is quite a bit of aliaising in other games, like Zelda), with some cool effects here and there.

I think a lot of people who are dissapointed in this expected something comparable to an off the shelf product, and not appreciating it for what it is: a fun, if flawed, budget product.

60FPS and sharper visuals with more contrast would fix about 90 percent of the game's problems. Not sure how that's out of reach with a budget game. I agree there's a fun game in there, but it's boggled down by technical and presentation issues. It truly is a shame. Hope they make a sequel that fixes these problems.
 
Top Bottom