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[Damerman]

Can't speak for the next man, but I'm proud as fuck. Incredible islands, incredible people, incredible achievements. I'm so glad I was born an Englishman, truly it is a blessing.

Your conflating being glad to have that privilege and being proud to have that privilege, at least i hope you are.

 

[SmokyDave]

At least a sane man

It's true though! I fucking love this land and always will. Proud is putting it lightly. I'm so grateful that I can live here and raise a family on this beautiful island. Steeped in heritage and history, we stand tall amongst giants.

"Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life."

Spoiler

Doesn't help that Cecil Rhodes was a genocidal racist

He wasn't wrong about that though.

Your conflating being glad to have that privilege and being proud to have that privilege, at least i hope you are.

Both. Glad and proud.

 

[Toxi]

I'd probably rank it higher than the Mongol and Spanish Empires at any rate.

"At least we're better than those guys who stacked heads in pyramids outside the cities they massacred."

 

[not_so_special]

At least a sane man

animu avatar never fails


http://listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evil-crimes-of-the-british-empire/


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/jul/22/comment.mainsection


http://www.monbiot.com/2005/12/27/how-britain-denies-its-holocausts/


as i said before british empire = nazis with good pr marketing and more time to forgot his sins,can anyone be proud of the nazi regime?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/apr/23/british-empire-crimes-ignore-atrocities

 

[KillerMan91]

No you can't be proud because dem west is evil.

However, the Arab conquest was holy, the Ottoman empire was all kinds of glorious, as so was the Persian empire, and the Chinese empire was like, totes civilization and refinement, the Inca empire was pure magic and the Zulu empire was baddass.

Double standards are in voge, it seems.

As for myself, as a history lover one's gotta have some perspective. We're currently living in some uniquely anti-imperialistic, ultra-nationalistic times, truthly a historic anomaly rather than the norm. Consequently, the mainstream political and academic discourse is extremely skewed against any kind of empire, and that leads to an unfair "lumping" of empires into a pulp of "generic evil" into the mindset of many people.

There were better and worse empires, and they were extremely different from each other. Many times, they filled actual needs and created social structures better than the ones that they replaced. They go far beyond the caricaturesque "evil megalomaniac country" vision that many people have of them. In fact, I would argue that many empires did contributed positively in the development of mankind and civilization as we know it, the English empire amongst them.

loool. If there is any double standards in history it's how lightly European empires are treated by history books and media compared to insane amount of suffering they caused around the world. Compare that to Japanese Empire or Soviet Union which both were also ''impressive'' achievements but you would never have thread here with the title ''Can we be proud of the Japanese empire / Soviet Union?'' because both also caused huge amounts of suffering and people actually know it because they were taught so. While British lost the empire they won regarding of how history potrays them (along with french and other european empires).

 

[Piecake]

That's quite interesting but shrewd leaders are often more keen on using piety as a tool when it aligns with their other goals. It's not clear if genuine moral panic caused them to send a "hard liner" to deal with the British of if was largely due to economic concerns in terms of paying for their armies and palaces.

The Daogong Emperor wasn't shrewd. He was weak and vacillating. He latched onto the explanation of Opium, that Opium was poisoning and ruining China, because China was in a terrible terrible situation and the Daogong Emperor felt helpless. A tremendous amount of civil unrest and civil wars was happening, the economy was in an incredibly precarious place due to China basically falling into a Malthusian trap that it couldnt get out of due to a stupidly high population and no industrialization. Hell, he even went to a shrine (of some sort, I forgot which), and asked his ancestors (or something else) what he did wrong, why was China like this? That was, If I remember correctly, the first time something like that has happened. Clearly, he was looking for answers.

Therefore, when the moralists argued forcefully that Opium was the cause of all of this because it was poisoning China, the Daogong Emperor latched onto it because it explained everything. It explained why there was so much civil unrest and revolts (poor morality caused by opium), it explained why there was so much corruption (greed caused by so much opium), a shit economy (opium), and just the general degeneration of the Chinese state (opium poisoning the people of China - morally, physically, and intellectually). Therefore, to stop that trend, the opium trade, which was already illegal, had to be crushed.

And it is quite clear from the sources and memorials that morality played a major factor in the decision, and was, in actuality, a greater factor in the minds of Chinese officials in the crackdown on opium. I mean, why the hell would these officials discuss at such great length amongst themselves and then with the emperor in private memorials about the evils of opium and the poisoning of China if they didnt believe it? It doesnt make much sense. A little posturing I can understand, but to go to that length, and considering the explanation in the previous paragraphs, the only logical conclusion, I think, is that morality played a major factor in the crack down.

I think your problem here is that you see society and history in economic terms and are projecting that view onto people who didnt. And when it is clear from the sources that they had other motivations, you think that that is simply posturing. I think that is a real problem because if you want to explain someone's motivations, then you have to understand the time, place, culture, society and individual viewpoints of individuals and realize that not everyone sees society only in terms of economic growth.

Hell, that is a constant criticism of Imperial China, that they didnt care about trade, put down merchants, etc etc, so I think it rather difficult to reconcile those two views. It seems pretty clear that you seem to hold a traditional view of Imperial China's view on trade and economy, and yet you try to explain their motivations for the opium crackdown as basically economic?

 

[Newline]

It's true though! I fucking love this land and always will. Proud is putting it lightly. I'm so grateful that I can live here and raise a family on this beautiful island. Steeped in heritage and history, we stand tall amongst giants.

So what makes you proud of our nation is that you personally get to experience the fruits of countless other peoples labour? Good for us right.

 

[crazy monkey]

I don't like the royalty. It was incredible achievement for such a small nation.

 

[linsivvi]

We're talking about pride in something that can have something negative associated with it. Being proud of how the allies fought, yet condemning some horrific atrocities committed, as an example.

Can you give examples of who/what you're proud of, as I said, its not as black and white as its being made out. Its all different shades of grey. So yeah, I find it hard to believe.

Just as expected. Make it about the poster instead of the idea posted.

I don't ever feel proud of mass murderers, and I'll say it one last time: If you find this hard to believe, it's on you.

I have no obligation to entertain your question.

Where did I say I was proud? I was highlighting the posters black & white attitude to a world of history that is many shades of grey. That's all.

You mean besides the fact that I never said anything about history being black and white? I specifically used the word proud in respond to the OP, and your reply was a mix of deflection and whataboutism.

 

[Walpurgis]

No you can't be proud because dem west is evil.

However, the Arab conquest was holy, the Ottoman empire was all kinds of glorious, as so was the Persian empire, and the Chinese empire was like, totes civilization and refinement, the Inca empire was pure magic and the Zulu empire was baddass.

Double standards are in voge, it seems.

Congratulations. You've completely missed the point.

As for myself, as a history lover one's gotta have some perspective. We're currently living in some uniquely anti-imperialistic, ultra-nationalistic times, truthly a historic anomaly rather than the norm.

It seems you're the one who needs perspective. Anti-imperialism is not a modern concept. It's very normal actually.

Consequently, the mainstream political and academic discourse is extremely skewed against any kind of empire, and that leads to an unfair "lumping" of empires into a pulp of "generic evil" into the mindset of many people.

You can thank the British for that. No one is unfairly viewing the British empire as a generic evil. Most people are quite familiar with their accomplishments. My people being among them.

There were better and worse empires, and they were extremely different from each other. Many times, they filled actual needs and created social structures better than the ones that they replaced. They go far beyond the caricaturesque "evil megalomaniac country" vision that many people have of them. In fact, I would argue that many empires did contributed positively in the development of mankind and civilization as we know it, the English empire amongst them.

Right. The British empire definitely left my country better off than they found it.

 

[PJV3]

Not proud or ashamed, it is fuck all to do with me. I can almost see the poor in the victorian slums waving the union flag and claiming to own a third of the world.

I am proud of the Kinks though.

 

[Currygan]

all the pride shaming in here, you know what, fuck it

surely, I'm not the most overtly patriotic, but fuck me if I don't feel it in every cell of my body, if I don't shed a tear whenever I'm overseas for more than three days and see the Union Jack waving somewhere, if I'm not proud for the incredible goals the good English people were able to achieve in every goddamned field known to man, science, theater, cinema, sports, public health, you bleedin' name it, if I'm not proud of London, the city every other city plays catch up with, and if I'm not immensely proud of this bloody tiny yellow teethed rock


enough. Gonna write a cover for Billy Joel's "We didn't start the fire" in smooth English style

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I mean, there are just so many things to feel proud of that feeling proud of coming out of the nuts of a guy who lived in a place that used to kill brown people in mass numbers is not something I would put high on my list.

Russians today feel proud of the Soviet Union (which only accomplished a whole lot of starvation and subjugation) and people think that's weird too.

 

[CadetMahoney]

ie becoming a massive and powerful empire as long as you can view that from a less idealised viewpoint and can appreciate the implications.

What exactly are these British Empire achievements and implications that the world can appreciate? - "it benefited me, don't know about you and your country lolz." Open some trade routes? Wow such altruism.

 

[Toxi]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/apr/23/british-empire-crimes-ignore-atrocities

Elkins reveals that the British detained not 80,000 Kikuyu, as the official histories maintain, but almost the entire population of one and a half million people, in camps and fortified villages. There, thousands were beaten to death or died from malnutrition, typhoid, tuberculosis and dysentery. In some camps almost all the children died.

The inmates were used as slave labour. Above the gates were edifying slogans, such as "Labour and freedom" and "He who helps himself will also be helped". Loudspeakers broadcast the national anthem and patriotic exhortations. People deemed to have disobeyed the rules were killed in front of the others. The survivors were forced to dig mass graves, which were quickly filled. Unless you have a strong stomach I advise you to skip the next paragraph.

Interrogation under torture was widespread. Many of the men were anally raped, using knives, broken bottles, rifle barrels, snakes and scorpions. A favourite technique was to hold a man upside down, his head in a bucket of water, while sand was rammed into his rectum with a stick. Women were gang-raped by the guards. People were mauled by dogs and electrocuted. The British devised a special tool which they used for first crushing and then ripping off testicles. They used pliers to mutilate women's breasts. They cut off inmates' ears and fingers and gouged out their eyes. They dragged people behind Land Rovers until their bodies disintegrated. Men were rolled up in barbed wire and kicked around the compound.

Contributing positively to the development of mankind and civilization as we know it.

 

[SkyOdin]

Historically countries have either been the oppressor, or they've been the oppressed, and as oppressors go the British Empire was one of the most benign. It doesn't even bare comparison with what the Romans or the Mongols got up to, despite being much larger.

So sure, be proud!

Benign? Millions upon millions of people in India died from starvation during British rule, in large part due to British policies. China was invaded and carved up, causing the country to descend into a period of warlordism. People were enslaved and shipped to completely different continents, while other entire countries were denied any sovereignty or dignity. The amount of human suffering and destruction wrought by European Imperialism, and the British Empire in particular, cannot be understated. I cannot imagine how anyone can call this "benign", even in a comparative sense.

Imperialism is an ugly, evil thing. There should be no pride in its memory. There is a reason that the US has collectively tried its best to forget about its imperialistic ambitions in the Philippines, for example: the whole thing is too terrible to be spun as something to be proud of. So instead, we just try to forget that we ever devastated that nation, which itself is just a way of pretending that these crimes didn't happen.

Trying to sugarcoat the British Empire as something to be proud of entails pretending that the bloodshed and atrocities never happened. But they did, and I think modern people owe it to the victims to not turn their heads and instead face the past for what it really is: something shameful and ugly. Otherwise, we will never learn from those tragedies.

 

[HK-47]

Are you arguing for the opium wars here?
Like, what's the bigger point?

Britain went to war with China to force them to buy opium from them, they killed tens of thousands of people for that, ended up taking up pieces of China and making all Christians exempt from Chinese laws, all things that directly help bring the boxer rebellion and the fuckery that followed and you really want to argue that "well, it didn't technically destroyed China"?

It was a colonial crime, unjustifiable and unforgivable, I mean yeah, it's not as bad as some of the stuff the British did in Africa and India, but let's get fucking real here.

They also used all that opium to suck much of China's silver wealth out of the country.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

I don't think you can be proud but you can respect Queen Victoria( although she was not an absolute monarch) was able to rule for 64 years and expanded the English Empire to be the largest in the world time and able to usher in the industrial revolution which changed history. She has some impressing achievements.

 

[Walpurgis]

Elkins reveals that the British detained not 80,000 Kikuyu, as the official histories maintain, but almost the entire population of one and a half million people, in camps and fortified villages. There, thousands were beaten to death or died from malnutrition, typhoid, tuberculosis and dysentery. In some camps almost all the children died.

The inmates were used as slave labour. Above the gates were edifying slogans, such as "Labour and freedom" and "He who helps himself will also be helped". Loudspeakers broadcast the national anthem and patriotic exhortations. People deemed to have disobeyed the rules were killed in front of the others. The survivors were forced to dig mass graves, which were quickly filled. Unless you have a strong stomach I advise you to skip the next paragraph.

Interrogation under torture was widespread. Many of the men were anally raped, using knives, broken bottles, rifle barrels, snakes and scorpions. A favourite technique was to hold a man upside down, his head in a bucket of water, while sand was rammed into his rectum with a stick. Women were gang-raped by the guards. People were mauled by dogs and electrocuted. The British devised a special tool which they used for first crushing and then ripping off testicles. They used pliers to mutilate women's breasts. They cut off inmates' ears and fingers and gouged out their eyes. They dragged people behind Land Rovers until their bodies disintegrated. Men were rolled up in barbed wire and kicked around the compound.

Contributing positively to the development of mankind and civilization as we know it.

Can't speak for the next man, but I'm proud as fuck. Incredible islands, incredible people, incredible achievements. I'm so glad I was born an Englishman, truly it is a blessing.

Historically countries have either been the oppressor, or they've been the oppressed, and as oppressors go the British Empire was one of the most benign. It doesn't even bare comparison with what the Romans or the Mongols got up to, despite being much larger.

So sure, be proud!

.

 

[gutter_trash]

we all using English now? looks like they ended up succeeding through language

 

[Porcile]

I'm half-Indian, half-British descending from the first generation of post-war Indian migrants to the UK, so I probably wouldn't even be born if it wasn't for the British Empire! Think about that!

I mean, it certainly fucked up a lot of countries for a long ass time and created huge divisions, but then you'd have to wonder if those divisions would've manifested themselves in other forms anyway. Certainly, I don't think the modernisation of some aspects of British colonies was a bad thing thing; however, the human cost, the suppression and the arbitrariness of some of it was just ridiculous: "Oh. Sorry, Burma, we don't really need your country, but we're going to take it anyway, because it just so happens to provide a nice shield for another country we decided we'd quite like to have. Also, we're going suppress many of aspects of your culture. Cheers. Thanks" or "Oh, hey Ghana, or Gold Coast or whatever it was we named you, we're like fighting this war, in this other country we stole, against another country who wants to steal it from us. The cheek right? Anyway, because we stole your country too, how's about you come over and help us out? Cheers, bud."

Empires are just ridiculous things by nature and there isn't a justifiable way of being proud of it.

 

[PJV3]

I don't think you can be proud but you can respect that Queen Victoria(although she was not an absolute monarch at all) was able to rule for 64 years and expanded the English Empire to be the largest in the world time and able to usher in the industrial revolution which changed history. She has some impressing achievements.

Wasn't she just giving birth all the time?

 

[Newline]

all the pride shaming in here, you know what, fuck it

surely, I'm not the most overtly patriotic, but fuck me if I don't feel it in every cell of my body, if I don't shed a tear whenever I'm overseas for more than three days and see the Union Jack waving somewhere, if I'm not proud for the incredible goals the good English people were able to achieve in every goddamned field known to man, science, theater, cinema, sports, public health, you bleedin' name it, if I'm not proud of London, the city every other city plays catch up with, and if I'm not immensely proud of this bloody tiny yellow teethed rock


enough. Gonna write a cover for Billy Joel's "We didn't start the fire" in smooth English style

None of the things you've mentioned are related to any pride shaming thats gone on in this thread. You've mentioned great engineering, scientific and cultural achievements that any of us brits would be proud of.

 

[Walpurgis]

Wasn't she just giving birth all the time?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she didn't do dick.

 

[AlucardGV]

you can only be proud of things you do by yourself. you can be grateful

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

You can be proud of it's accomplishments as long as you are also ashamed of it's crimes. It's a package deal. All states were built on corpses, the more powerful the worse it gets. All cultures were built through the subjugation and assimilation of neighbouring groups. Most of the time this happened so far in the distant past that nobody remembers it, but nobody is free from that legacy.

My personal recommendation is don't let the self loathing set in, but don't run around thinking about how wonderful it is that you were born into group x or y either. It's just coincidence, you weren't involved in their triumphs or tragedies.

Haha just kidding Rule Britannia bitches. Get wrecked Germany / France / The rest of the world. God save the queen because nothing will save the governor general etc.

 

[Damerman]

Such as? Problems due to where lines were drawn randomly by some douche?

Do you know what myopia is? Because you are displaying it in spades. All you have to do is look at what is going on around the world and the racism that 18th and 19th century european scientists tried to pass off as fact, and the infighting as a result of "divide and conquer" and the racial complexes that darker skinned people feel across the world and the utter domination occidental corporations have across the globe crippling emerging economies.

Yo, what the fuck ami reading right now, this is fucking crazy.

 

[Spaced Harrier]

The irony of history is that your people's tragedies ultimately led to your existence, and ability to bemoan them.

So, a hearty thank you, from me, to the psychopathic murderous bastards.

 

[Xun]

After literally just finishing Code Geass this made me burst out laughing.

I'm British and I'd be proud of the British Empire, but the means in which we did what we did outweighs the gains we got. We did some really horrible things. I find it incredible my ancestors achieved the feat they did and it amazes me there was a point in time one of the smaller nations of earth was the most powerful, but I think we made many mistakes and in a way completely messed up the world, including colonising (due to the fact us and the other Europeans comitted Genocide and basically destroyed a subculture of peoples entire way of life) and then giving up America (which led to them eventually under their own hands comitting their own atrocities).

I don't feel proud of it, but I certainly respect the fact they achieved for a time absolute power over the world in a move that propelled my nation further forward than anyone else , which, was what allowed them that power. Reading the history of the rise of the British Empire is really interesting and it's something I've loved learning about. The funny thing is, is allthough the British Empire doesn't exist by name anymore, it's still kind of a thing in practice. The commonwealth is what's left of the British Empire and while more split from democracy and power, we still have a foothold in most of those nations.

As a Brit I'm impressed we could even have a global empire, and proud of our industrial achievements, but there's certainly a lot of things we've done that I'm disgusted by.

My thoughts exactly.

It's impressive to think about what we accomplished, even if some of what we did was atrocious.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Haha just kidding Rule Britannia bitches. Get wrecked Germany / France / The rest of the world. Good save the queen because nothing will save the governor general etc.

lol the shitty version America trying to brag lol lol lol.

 

[Newline]

The irony of history is that your people's tragedies ultimately led to your existence, and ability to bemoan them.

So, a hearty thank you, from me, to the psychopathic murderous bastards.

Which makes me confused to why people even bring it up. You know... with chaos theory and everything.

"I'm so glad Britain invaded so many countries, without it I wouldn't be born". If their descendant didn't take a specific dump on a specific afternoon a few centuries back they wouldn't be born either.

 

[entremet]

History isn't black and white. There's a lot of grey. And good luck finding a perfectly moral nation state.

They don't exist.

I'm American, so I'm grateful for the British Empire.

 

[Marc]

Just as expected. Make it about the poster instead of the idea posted.

I don't ever feel proud of mass murderers, and I'll say it one last time: If you find this hard to believe, it's on you.

I have no obligation to entertain your question.

Uhuh, or I am trying to find an example directly related to you to better explain the point that you are missing. Not trying to attack you, its just that soooo many things have blood on their hands. Modern medicine done off the back off thousands of suffering, you wouldn't look down on it as a whole because of the terrible things done to achieve it yet they are there.

I didn't say you did, it's a discussion, I was trying to discuss and illicit information from you to better understand your point of view and to better explain mine. You say you're not proud of mass murderers and yet no doubt your country in modern times has had some hand in it. And a guy similar to you in the future will no doubt look back and judge you as a mass murderer, all grouped in together. Maybe not though.

Do you know what myopia is? Because you are displaying it in spades. All you have to do is look at what is going on around the world and the racism that 18th and 19th century european scientists tried to pass off as fact, and the infighting as a result of "divide and conquer" and the racial complexes that darker skinned people feel across the world and the utter domination occidental corporations have across the globe crippling emerging economies.

Yo, what the fuck ami reading right now, this is fucking crazy.

Otherwise known as human nature. It existed before the British empire, and will exist long after unfortunately. They used that nature to their benefit, no doubt, as do many.... which is the point. You're acting like there is this mythical perfectly clean existence and the British empire is some exception to this that drags the whole world down. It is depressing, and it should be common sense stuff and yet it still happens so instead of rejecting reality people need to accept it and that they are part of it whether they like it or not. Then try and change it, which gets better generationally in some aspects, and yet worse in others. Wait, wait, wait... you're saying these things are caused by the British empire? Darker skinned people complexes, what are you on about? So there is no such thing as racism within other regions like say asia? Or racism within a race, which suddenly becomes tribalism yet amounts to "they're different, must hate" regardless.

I have no idea either, its honestly like people are living in Atlantis or something and are somehow untouched by the shit we do as people. Myopia indeed.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Uhuh, or I am trying to find an example directly related to you to better explain the point that you are missing. Not trying to attack you, its just that soooo many things have blood on their hands. Modern medicine done off the back off thousands of suffering, you wouldn't look down on it as a whole because of the terrible things done to achieve it yet they are there.

I didn't say you did, it's a discussion, I was trying to discuss and illicit information from you to better understand your point of view and to better explain mine. You say you're not proud of mass murderers and yet no doubt your country in modern times has had some hand in it. And a guy similar to you in the future will no doubt look back and judge you as a mass murderer, all grouped in together. Maybe not though.

The point of modern medicine is to save lives, the point of the British Empire was to wave their dick around and get some land. Intent is viewed as meaningful in life.

 

[Real Hero]

History isn't black and white. There's a lot of grey. And good luck finding a perfectly moral nation state.

They don't exist.

.

I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise

 

[G.Newell]

I'm proud to be British as i'm sure most Americans are proud to be American despite in there short history they have committed numerous atrocities.

I think ThoseDeadMutes said it correctly in that you can be proud of of the accomplishments of the country as long as you recognize and make no apologies for the despicable things it did as well.

 

[EMT0]

I don't think you can be proud but you can respect Queen Victoria( although she was not an absolute monarch) was able to rule for 64 years and expanded the English Empire to be the largest in the world time and able to usher in the industrial revolution which changed history. She has some impressing achievements.

If you think Queen Victoria is personally responsible for any of that I've got a boat the size of the island of Bermuda to sell you.

 

[Stallion Dan]

But you feel proud of other people's accomplishments decades/centuries ago? Okay...

So it's wrong to be proud of the people who died defending Britain in WWII?


The Empire brought a lot of good to the world, if you're proud of your nation you should be proud of its history and accomplishments, assuming there is good there.

Yes, there are bad parts to that history, but much like the good doesn't erase the bad, the bad does not erase the good.


Not being part of history also gives people the luxury of picking and choosing what they are proud of.

 

[linsivvi]

Uhuh, or I am trying to find an example directly related to you to better explain the point that you are missing. Not trying to attack you, its just that soooo many things have blood on their hands. Modern medicine done off the back off thousands of suffering, you wouldn't look down on it as a whole because of the terrible things done to achieve it yet they are there.

I didn't say you did, it's a discussion, I was trying to discuss and illicit information from you to better understand your point of view and to better explain mine. You say you're not proud of mass murderers and yet no doubt your country in modern times has had some hand in it. And a guy similar to you in the future will no doubt look back and judge you as a mass murderer, all grouped in together. Maybe not though.

The point of this thread is the word proud.

You're and so many posters are trying to change it to a discussion of the pros and cons of the British empire, which is not what the OP is about and not what I was responding to.

I was responding to this:

Is it simply too early to express any pride since most countries were still colonies in our parents/grandparents lifetime? Because if you look at it from a conquest or basic human need of securing resources point of view the british empire was an amazing achievement.

Which is disgusting.

Edit: Also, an empire mass murdering people <> all people born in that empire were mass murderers. So I have absolutely no idea what your last sentence is all about.

 

[Spaced Harrier]

Which makes me confused to why people even bring it up. You know... with chaos theory and everything.

"I'm so glad Britain invaded so many countries, without it I wouldn't be born". If their descendant didn't take a specific dump on a specific afternoon a few centuries back they wouldn't be born either.

But I bet you're glad he did.

 

[travisbickle]

No, colonialism is fucked up.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Hell, that is a constant criticism of Imperial China, that they didnt care about trade, put down merchants, etc etc, so I think it rather difficult to reconcile those two views. It seems pretty clear that you seem to hold a traditional view of Imperial China's view on trade and economy, and yet you try to explain their motivations for the opium crackdown as basically economic?

It wasn't my opinion that they didn't care about trade in fact they seemed happy and not violently moralistic when trade was pumping slave/conquest silver into their economy. Yes I think that economics is important since it's one of the main windows into seeing the stresses on a nation.

 

[StayDead]

So what makes you proud of our nation is that you personally get to experience the fruits of countless other peoples labour? Good for us right.

That's all life is as a human to be fair.

 

[Henchmen21]

You can be proud of the Brittas Empire

 

[Damerman]

The irony of history is that your people's tragedies ultimately led to your existence, and ability to bemoan them.

So, a hearty thank you, from me, to the psychopathic murderous bastards.

Everyday i contemplate my situation and environment because of imperialism... We are not complaining about what happened in the past, we are complaining about the infighting that white french deliberately created amongst blacks and mulattos.

I've been subject to racial slurs and threats because of how my country turned out after colonialism... And thats just the tip of the consequences.

 

[GK86]

Any good documentaries on the British empire you guys would recommend?

 

[not_so_special]

History isn't black and white. There's a lot of grey. And good luck finding a perfectly moral nation state.

They don't exist.

.

thats why pride is bad,welp imagine the nazis winning ww2 300 years on the future,people on neonazigaf talking they pride they got from the magnificen achivements of the third reich..its sounds hiperbolic and goodwin i know..but is what is happening in this thread now,the nazis ( for good) got less time to do their shit,english empire got thousands of years of advantage

 

[Newline]

That's all life is as a human to be fair.

I'm not proud of that though. It's also definitely not all there is to human life.

But I bet you're glad he did.

I tend not to think about the innumerable different events that led to my being. I'm not glad that nature is the way it is, I take that as a birth right.

 

[jerry113]

You should feel proud of what YOU have done in life.

Ding ding ding.

Blind patriotism is just a tool by those in power to lord and command over their denizens.

There's a difference between being impressed by something and being proud of something.