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CNN Monday: Healthcare debate between Graham/Cassidy and Bernie/Kobluchar

BoogieWoogie

Banned
Jun 16, 2015
5,831
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Doesn't the fact that they're doing this kind of prove they don't have the votes? They should be using every last second to whip.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Jul 31, 2007
39,660
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Bernie? Really? Ugh. This is a terrible choice for the democrats. He struggles to stay on topic.
 

Emarv

Member
Jul 19, 2012
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Should have been Bernie and Gillibrand. Gillibrand would have articulated both the critiques of the GOP bill and the defense of Bernie's bill best.
 
Oct 7, 2009
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Bernie? Really? Ugh. This is a terrible choice for the democrats. He struggles to stay on topic.


It makes sense considering he spearheaded the democrats medicare-for-all initiative. I assume this debate will be about the ideal future of healthcare going forward rather than only about the graham-cassidy bill.
 

rtcn63

Member
Aug 14, 2013
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Have Larry David and Susie Essman on as the opposition and see if the other side notices
 

RustyNails

Member
Aug 31, 2009
47,584
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1,115
Bernie? Really? Ugh. This is a terrible choice for the democrats. He struggles to stay on topic.
Yup, and I like the guy. He's going to push for Singlepayer and put off moderates, while not defending Obamacare. Graham Cassidy might come out better on this by saying "see? Its either this or government healthcare!"
 

kcp12304

Banned
Mar 20, 2013
904
17
480
Bernie is gonna flail. He's not a details person.

American Politics & Debates aren't about policy wonkery. Clinton would be President if that was the case.

Sometimes you need a guy who pounds the podium with his fist.

Of course I would like to see Warren instead. If you want more smarts.
 

kittenbreath

Member
Jun 16, 2012
1,025
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How is Bernie going to debate Graham? By agreeing that Obamacare sucks and that it should be repealed? Even if he doesn't want to go there, you know the Republicans are going to play that angle.

This is just muddying the waters at a time when Democrats need all hands on deck to save the ACA.
 

Slayven

Member
Dec 10, 2004
121,783
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Yup, and I like the guy. He's going to push for Singlepayer and put off moderates, while not defending Obamacare. Graham Cassidy might come out better on this by saying "see? Its either this or government healthcare!"

Good chance they become best friends and just shit on Obamacare together
 

benicillin

Banned
Mar 31, 2012
5,306
0
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Bernie has been an extremely vocal defender of the ACA during this entire process, he's not gonna go up there and trash it.
 

iavi

Member
Jun 8, 2010
13,180
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This is lose lose for anyone hoping to not taint the image on ACA.

Bernie and the democrats supporting this are honestly choosing the worst possible time to push for single-payer, going at it before the dust even settles on the GOPs ACA repeal efforts.
 

Maledict

Member
Feb 16, 2013
8,779
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600
This is a terrible, terrible idea. It presumes equivalence between a bill that could be law next week and would crippled millions of families, and a law that wouldn't pass even if the democrats controlled everything.

Democrats need to be focussed on stopping his abomination right now. Not trying to sell their own pixie dust.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
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BERNIE MAI BOI

I hope he remembers to shit on Cassidy because the insurance markets are fighting against Cassidy's bill specifically because it could possibly allow states to create their own single payer health insurance markets are far less cost.

"Leave it up to the states, UNLESS its not an insurance monopoly!"

Spokesman Ty Bofferding said the United States spends more than twice as much per person as countries in Western Europe — all of which have universal health-care systems — so it was reasonable to believe better outcomes were possible with fewer dollars.

“We expect when states are free of structural regulation, the American people will see innovative ideas,” he said. “No CBO coverage score is available for the bill yet, however this legislation has far more enrollment incentives than previous repeal-and-replace attempts, so we expect improved coverage.”

Given the spending reductions in the bill, many health-care experts found this logic to be highly dubious. Yet no credible analyst has been willing to venture an estimate on coverage because no one knows how states would react.

For instance, the respected health-care consultant Avalere concluded that California would face a 13 percent shortfall ($78 billion between 2020 and 2026) under Cassidy-Graham compared to current law. But in theory, the state could decide to create a single-payer system that could cover everyone, so that would certainly increase coverage. In fact, the trade group for insurance companies — America’s Health Insurance Plans — opposes the bill in part because it could “build a bridge to single-payer systems.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...le-will-have-coverage/?utm_term=.7de24c5061b9
 

Futureman

Member
Mar 17, 2005
17,473
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www.gregburgh.com
This is a terrible, terrible idea. It presumes equivalence between a bill that could be law next week and would crippled millions of families, and a law that wouldn't pass even if the democrats controlled everything.

Democrats need to be focussed on stopping his abomination right now. Not trying to sell their own pixie dust.

While I don't necessarily disagree, Bernie's not a Democrat and they can't exactly stop him from doing a healthcare debate.
 

Cesare Borgia

Banned
Jun 21, 2015
3,547
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Graham/Cassiday seem to think that framing this as "we must do SOMETHING to stop single payer" is a good idea (rally conservatives, scare moderates). Doesn't seem like a good idea when 2016 exposed that a large portion of Trump's base actually supports more government intervention in healthcare. I'm going to guess smearing Bernie Sanders, the most popular (active) politician in the country, as a wild eyed radical isn't going to work.

On the flip side, Sanders isn't a good debater. Kobluchar is going to be the smartest person on the stage.
 

Zolo

Member
Jan 3, 2015
9,869
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I honestly don't know what to think about this.

Yeah.

That said, Bernie is currently the most popular politician in the US. This could go well if the debate focuses on the negatives of the bill being proposed rather than single-payer.
 

ianpm31

Member
Oct 15, 2016
858
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Bernie is one of the few guys who's putting in work around here and is the guy for immediate future to end this Trump bs in 2020 (don't care how old he is).
 

Piano

Banned
Aug 13, 2008
5,561
6
1,210
Bernie is the wrong choice for this. Could've been Murray, or hell, even Franken. People who know at least a few things about policy.
 

y2dvd

Member
May 14, 2008
11,223
0
1,030
Bernie straight up said the GOP trying to repeal the ACA is evil. Just because he wants to take it several steps further doesn't mean he's against it.
 

Black Mamba

Member
Feb 6, 2011
27,962
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I have a real idea.

Have health care experts debate Graham and Cassidy.

Fuck it, how about the President of the AMA at least?

Why are we letting these assholes lie on TV with our only defense being other Senators who aren't experts?
 

Maengun1

Member
Dec 13, 2014
2,293
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0
just ftr it's K*l*obuchar not Kobluchar

She's THE 2020 dark horse IMO so we should get it out there lol

As for the debate's existence, I'm not sure if this is a good sign or not. Obviously the GOP knows their bill is terrible and doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks. I'm not sure if this is just more theater for soemthing they know can't pass or if this is actually a play, like "look McCain we're holding a hearing....vote pls..."
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,221
2
0
America
Yup, and I like the guy. He's going to push for Singlepayer and put off moderates, while not defending Obamacare. Graham Cassidy might come out better on this by saying "see? Its either this or government healthcare!"

"Moderates"(aka independents who are all across the political spectrum) would likely embrace single payer healthcare once given the explanations and benefits in a clear way. And he's done more defending of the ACA in the past few months than most democrats have done ever, unless we forget the last few times they have tried to push these repeal bills.

Sanders can push a vision of healthcare that is beyond the ACA while pointing out the effectiveness of the ACA compared to the disaster that would be a GOP healthcare bill that takes us backwards.

Forever playing defense and trying to appear "conservative lite" to "appeal to moderates" is a loser strategy, an overly simplistic and self defeatist viewpoint of people who don't have any courage. Its lost the democrats the election, and pretty much all of their political power of the last 10 years.
 

avaya

Member
Oct 3, 2007
10,663
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0
London
Sanders can't debate for shit, his heart's in the right place but he will just rant and rave. Such a pointless exercise.
 
Apr 27, 2009
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This could end up being an unmitigated disaster at a time when the Republican effort appears to getting more and more desperate.
 

Zolo

Member
Jan 3, 2015
9,869
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0
As for the debate's existence, I'm not sure if this is a good sign or not. Obviously the GOP knows their bill is terrible and doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks. I'm not sure if this is just more theater for soemthing they know can't pass or if this is actually a play, like "look McCain we're holding a hearing....vote pls..."

It's the strategy of helping to convince McCain as well as attacking Single-Payer. I do hope they have a fact-checker at the debate.
 

kirblar

Member
Oct 9, 2010
63,315
1
860
"Moderates"(aka independents who are all across the political spectrum) would likely embrace single payer healthcare once given the explanations and benefits in a clear way. And he's done more defending of the ACA in the past few months than most democrats have done ever, unless we forget the last few times they have tried to push these repeal bills.

Sanders can push a vision of healthcare that is beyond the ACA while pointing out the effectiveness of the ACA compared to the disaster that would be a GOP healthcare bill that takes us backwards.

Forever playing defense and trying to appear "conservative lite" to "appeal to moderates" is a loser strategy, an overly simplistic and self defeatist viewpoint of people who don't have any courage. Its lost the democrats the election, and pretty much all of their political power of the last 10 years.
If you just explain why it's wrong, the Nazis will stop trying to kill Jews!

Edit: in case the point isn't clear, racism and an unwillingness to give benefits to minorities is behind the refusal of many to expand uhc i n any form
 
Apr 27, 2009
34,831
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"Moderates"(aka independents who are all across the political spectrum) would likely embrace single payer healthcare once given the explanations and benefits in a clear way. And he's done more defending of the ACA in the past few months than most democrats have done ever, unless we forget the last few times they have tried to push these repeal bills.

Sanders can push a vision of healthcare that is beyond the ACA while pointing out the effectiveness of the ACA compared to the disaster that would be a GOP healthcare bill that takes us backwards.

Forever playing defense and trying to appear "conservative lite" to "appeal to moderates" is a loser strategy, an overly simplistic and self defeatist viewpoint of people who don't have any courage. Its lost the democrats the election, and pretty much all of their political power of the last 10 years.

They're trying to convince the only people who have power right now. Rand Paul, John McCain, and Lisa Murkowski.

An hour or two of scary Sanders socialism could be just the kick they need to push the vote over the line.
 

Fenderputty

Banned
Apr 14, 2008
23,121
0
0
Cali
American Politics & Debates aren't about policy wonkery. Clinton would be President if that was the case.

Sometimes you need a guy who pounds the podium with his fist.

Of course I would like to see Warren instead. If you want more smarts.

Bernie didn't do well debating Ted Cruz months ago over the same topic. Why would he be better now?
 

avaya

Member
Oct 3, 2007
10,663
0
0
London
"Moderates"(aka independents who are all across the political spectrum) would likely embrace single payer healthcare once given the explanations and benefits in a clear way. And he's done more defending of the ACA in the past few months than most democrats have done ever, unless we forget the last few times they have tried to push these repeal bills.

Sanders can push a vision of healthcare that is beyond the ACA while pointing out the effectiveness of the ACA compared to the disaster that would be a GOP healthcare bill that takes us backwards.

Forever playing defense and trying to appear "conservative lite" to "appeal to moderates" is a loser strategy, an overly simplistic and self defeatist viewpoint of people who don't have any courage. Its lost the democrats the election, and pretty much all of their political power of the last 10 years.

You do realise the target audience here are Republican senators?
 

benicillin

Banned
Mar 31, 2012
5,306
0
0
Bernie didn't do well debating Ted Cruz months ago over the same topic. Why would he be better now?

Amy is a good partner to cover his weaknesses, Ted Cruz is a better speaker than Graham or Cassidy, and instead of hypotheticals about the future of the ACA Bernie and Amy have an actual bill that the GOP is trying to pass with hard numbers about how terrible it is. If the moderators do their job Cassidy and Graham aren't going to be able to lie on stage about that.
 

avaya

Member
Oct 3, 2007
10,663
0
0
London
Amy is a good partner to cover his weaknesses, Ted Cruz is a better speaker than Graham or Cassidy, and instead of hypotheticals about the future of the ACA Bernie and Amy have an actual bill that the GOP is trying to pass with hard numbers about how terrible it is. If the moderators do their job Cassidy and Graham aren't going to be able to lie on stage about that.

The moderators will not do their jobs, they will both sides the shit out of it. The US is fucked.