• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

CNN Monday: Healthcare debate between Graham/Cassidy and Bernie/Kobluchar

snap

Banned
Feb 20, 2017
1,105
0
0
I remember how bad the Bernie v Cruz debate went.

This isn't going to great.
 

iammeiam

Member
Dec 28, 2006
10,664
0
0
Bernie is the wrong choice for this. Could've been Murray, or hell, even Franken. People who know at least a few things about policy.

Which is why I assume Graham and Cassidy are all for this.


For all that Trump gets credit for playing 4-D chess with distractions, this seems like an incredibly transparent way to pull heat off the Graham/Cassidy bill that is an actual threat by repositioning the left as socialists. Maybe Bernie manages to focus on the current threat, but I'm not super convinced.

Like. Have the debate after the reconciliation date is behind us and the healthcare discussion moves beyond Graham/Cassidy's disaster. This timing is transparent as hell, and Senators should insist on actual debate within the Senate instead of CNN.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,221
2
0
America
Bernie is gonna flail. He's not a details person.

Of course he is, he had his own detailed plan to fund his bill a long time ago and he had one during the election in fact.

The issue now is that many senators are scared that you can't sell any type of tax increase politically with midterm elections coming up where the GOP will constantly regurgitate "higher taxes higher taxes higher taxes". Hence why he had to leave any funding mechanisms out of his bill for senators to feel "safe" enough to come on board as co sponsors

Which IIRC was also one reason why Vermont's bill never got passed as well, in addition to the insurance companies coming down hard on the possibility of it passing. It actually could have been funded and been implemented just fine, but politics and the optics derailed its chances


http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...t-single-payer-was-scrapped-because-it-was-g/

*EDIT*


The issue i have with people saying "Its bad timing" is that its many of the same people who would then say "we just got done with the battle repealing the ACA and now you want to introduce this??" It is never the right time to ever fight for things that are important on a macro level. That's not how i believe big changes occur. We can apply that hypothetical to any big legislative reform push that has ever happend in America and then say "its not the time" to advocate for this or that....there has to be a right time.
 

Kusagari

Member
Dec 29, 2005
47,639
3
0
Gainesville FL
The point of a debate like this should be to point black attack Graham/Cassidy's plan.

Instead it's going to turn into Bernie defending single payer.
 

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
Aug 25, 2014
5,768
0
0
How is Bernie going to debate Graham? By agreeing that Obamacare sucks and that it should be repealed? Even if he doesn't want to go there, you know the Republicans are going to play that angle.

Lol where do you people get this stuff?

I hope Sanders and Klobuchar are mean as fuck to those clowns. Drag their asses.
 

Fenderputty

Banned
Apr 14, 2008
23,121
0
0
Cali
Bernie isn't an expert on healthcare now?

What?

None of these people debating on the stage are. They're politicians.

The point of a debate like this should be to point black attack Graham/Cassidy's plan.

Instead it's going to turn into Bernie defending single payer.

Debate single payer when we don't run the risk of having the ACA being boned in a week. This should be dems attacking GC and nothing more.
 

kess

Member
Aug 3, 2013
7,190
0
0
Put up or shut up time for Bernie.

He'll make a good attack dog while Klobuchar handles the details, I think.
 

Kusagari

Member
Dec 29, 2005
47,639
3
0
Gainesville FL
Debate single payer when we don't run the risk of having the ACA being boned in a week. This should be dems attacking GC and nothing more.

There's a reason Graham and Cassidy agreed to this. They know their best chance to sway public opinion is to debate Bernie and turn it into a debate about their plan vs. single payer and try to set the narrative.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Nov 23, 2015
31,114
138
475
New Jersey
Bernie should go for a pile driver or suplex. Skip the ground game and go for the slam, preferably through a table.
 

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
Aug 25, 2014
5,768
0
0
Put up or shut up time for Bernie.

He'll make a good attack dog while Klobuchar handles the details, I think.

Yeah, I think he's decent for moral outrage which is a useful tool in this debate. He speaks simply, he repeats shit and he'll call a mother fucker a liar. I'm fine with this seeing as how the GOP is debating from a position of "tens of millions will lose health care but whatever freedom."
 

Black Mamba

Member
Feb 6, 2011
27,962
0
0
Bernie isn't an expert on healthcare now?

What?

No, he's not. He's not a actuary or runs/works directly with Health Organizations and such. He's not a health care economist (or any kind for that matter).

Does Bernie know more than most people? Yes. Does he know more than Cassidey/Graham. Yes!

Still no expert.
 

Conciliator

Banned
Apr 21, 2011
7,301
0
0
37
yeah, these TV debates like this...they usually seem pointless to me. It will be messy and awkward and expensive looking.

but lol at the idea that Bernie will shit on the ACA when he's been out here on these dumb TV shows defending it non stop. Out of like the 4 talking points he ever makes, one is all about ACA insurees and protecting the ACA.
 

kcp12304

Banned
Mar 20, 2013
904
17
480
Bernie didn't do well debating Ted Cruz months ago over the same topic. Why would he be better now?

I never saw that but now that I think about it, he never really had a standout Primary debate performance. He's better at speeches. He could be really good if he stays disciplined enough to be an attack dog.
 
Feb 19, 2016
2,769
0
0
I'm going in front my TV on Monday like.



HOLLA HOLLA
 

Fenderputty

Banned
Apr 14, 2008
23,121
0
0
Cali
There's a reason Graham and Cassidy agreed to this. They know their best chance to sway public opinion is to debate Bernie and turn it into a debate about their plan vs. single payer and try to set the narrative.

Right and polling on single payer is wishy washy at best and highly susceptible to attacks from either side. See below.





Cassidy is actually a M.D. I'm sure he will let everyone know that as often as possible.

That's better than just being a politician as far as speaking form a place of authority, but even that doesn't really make someone an expert in healthcare.
 

iammeiam

Member
Dec 28, 2006
10,664
0
0
*EDIT*


The issue i have with people saying "Its bad timing" is that its many of the same people who would then say "we just got done with the battle repealing the ACA and now you want to introduce this??" It is never the right time to ever fight for things that are important on a macro level. That's not how i believe big changes occur. We can apply that hypothetical to any big legislative reform push that has ever happend in America and then say "its not the time" to advocate for this or that....there has to be a right time.

It's a literal sideshow. They are tryin to rush something horrible through the Senate to fuck over healthcare to free up donor money, and they are running out of time. It's not going through normal review processes, not getting any official debate. It's a horrible thing and stopping them should be the focus.

This turns the real political threat into a media circus; the debate accomplishes nothing and can't really hurt Graham and Cassidy at all. Everyone paying attention already know their stuff is garbage. But if they can handle Bernie properly, they may be able to make themselves seem more reasonable in comparison. They aren't trying to convince single-payer advocates of anything, they just want to be able to point at something Republicans will hate and go "it's our bill or this is the dark future." Bernie's strength isn't really in winning the hearts and minds of Republicans via debate, and that's why they'd want to debate him.

The timing is important because there is absolutely a reason they want to do this next week, and at the very least they should be denied that.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Jun 10, 2004
81,816
1
0
Probably will be pretty harmless. If anything it might encourage people to go back to the whole bipartisan fix thing. I don't think Graham is a particularly good salesman.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Mar 31, 2005
11,818
0
1,310
36
Arlington, VA
That's better than just being a politician as far as speaking form a place of authority, but even that doesn't really make someone an expert in healthcare.

It doesn't, but that won't stop Cassidy from positioning himself as one.

And Graham apparently said in an interview that their goal is to position their bill as an alternative to Bernie-care. If Bernie falls for that tactic and ends up debating the merits of single-payer I will never forgive him. If he is that stupid he needs to quit politics and retire.
 

Orbis Tabula

Member
Aug 20, 2010
15,615
1
0
Hmmm. I think this is dumb just because its dumb for CNN to do these pointless debates, but I feel pretty confident in Bernie and Klobuchar here.
 

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
Aug 25, 2014
5,768
0
0
Probably will be pretty harmless. If anything it might encourage people to go back to the whole bipartisan fix thing. I don't think Graham is a particularly good salesman.

Ew, no. I've changed my mind. Cancel the debates.
 

Fenderputty

Banned
Apr 14, 2008
23,121
0
0
Cali
And Graham apparently said in an interview that their goal is to position their bill as an alternative to Bernie-care. If Bernie falls for that tactic and ends up debating the merits of single-payer I will never forgive him. If he is that stupid he needs to quit politics and retire.

Yup. He's going to put Bernie on the defense against his plan when this entire thing should be Dems shitting on the GC bill in comparison to the ACA. That's what we're fighting for right now. Not single payer.
 

teiresias

Member
Jun 11, 2004
17,259
4
0
It makes sense considering he spearheaded the democrats medicare-for-all initiative. I assume this debate will be about the ideal future of healthcare going forward rather than only about the graham-cassidy bill.

Which is exactly what it shouldn't be about. The focus needs to be on just not letting the GC bill pass.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Mar 31, 2005
11,818
0
1,310
36
Arlington, VA
Yup. He's going to put Bernie on the defense against his plan when this entire thing should be Dems shitting on the GC bill in comparison to the ACA. That's what we're fighting for right now. Not single payer.

Agreed, hopefully Amy Klobuchar has more sense and is driving this point home to Bernie. Don't say a single damn thing about Medicare for all. The debate right now is the law as stands with the PPACA and the proposed changes from Graham-Cassidy.
 

Tarydax

Banned
Jan 28, 2015
861
0
0
Bernie got stomped by Ted fucking Cruz. He's going to get his ass kicked here too and will definitely make things worse.

If Graham and Cassidy lose the debate, it'll be because of Klobuchar.
 

KingV

Member
Jul 30, 2004
5,540
2
1,450
American Politics & Debates aren't about policy wonkery. Clinton would be President if that was the case.

Sometimes you need a guy who pounds the podium with his fist.

Of course I would like to see Warren instead. If you want more smarts.

Bernie gives a good stump speech and will give it here in debate form, most likely.

Graham/Cassidy will lie and claim their bill does things that it doesn't do.

CNN will not fact check.
 

RDreamer

Member
Aug 3, 2009
18,697
4
735
Ugh, this is not going to be good framing. This is exactly what the republicans want. Frame their non-solution as the only thing standing between us and single payer. That's not where the debate should be right now. The debate should be about whether we literally kill off our citizens with Graham/Cassidy's fucking horrendous bill or we don't.
 

RPGCrazied

Member
Oct 14, 2007
39,340
657
1,345
Pointless. We know whats all in the bill. We don't need to hear them try to defend it when you can't. This is probably to appease McCain who wanted hearings to move forward.
 

Fenderputty

Banned
Apr 14, 2008
23,121
0
0
Cali
Lol. You clinton people are so desperate to drag his name through the mud.

lol you Bernie people are desperate to drag her name through the mud. (shit posting is so easy!!!!!)

This isn't about dragging anyone's name through the mud. This is about saving the ACA next week and attacking the GC bill for how awful it is. There's a time and place to discuss the merits of single payer in an open debate. That's not next Monday. If Bernie strays or goes on the defensive ... it's a net loss.
 

iammeiam

Member
Dec 28, 2006
10,664
0
0
Lol. You clinton people are so desperate to drag his name through the mud.

And this is why GOPers will constantly want to involve Bernie. More than anybody else currently active in the left, pulling Sanders in will turn the left on itself as everything turns into the divisiveness of last year's primaries.

They are aiming to use Bernie here. And it might work. Which is horrific.
 

Fenderputty

Banned
Apr 14, 2008
23,121
0
0
Cali
I am shocked to hear that much of PoliGAF is unhappy about something Bernie Sanders is doing. Shocked, I tell you.

I'm shocked Berniecrats can't think critically about anything beyond rooting for the boi (literally the first bernicrat post in this thread.) Shocked, I tell you. Wait one fucking week and nobody in this thread would give a damn. I sure as shit wouldn't.
 

Zyae

Member
Feb 17, 2013
2,929
0
0
lol you Bernie people are desperate to drag her name through the mud. (shit posting is so easy!!!!!)

This isn't about dragging anyone's name through the mud. This is about saving the ACA next week and attacking the GC bill for how awful it is. There's a time and place to discuss the merits of single payer in an open debate. That's not next Monday. If Bernie strays or goes on the defensive ... it's a net loss.

Bernie has made it pretty clear that ACA needs to be saved for now and Kobluchar has not co sponsored his bill. Why are you making assumptions.
 

royalan

Member
Jan 19, 2011
34,431
0
0
Philadelphia
www.yobrando.com
Should have been Bernie and Gillibrand. Gillibrand would have articulated both the critiques of the GOP bill and the defense of Bernie's bill best.

Any politician worth their salt knows that all they need to do to whoop Bernie is get him in the weeds. The man can't do detailed policy discussion (or even fake it convincingly) to save his life.

Expecting Klobuchar to carry the team here while Bernie grandstands.