Support NeoGAF

[blankempathy]

So, instead of "I better throw this gun away," you think it's more likely the black kid was thinking about having a standoff with the cops or shooting him in the eye with a BB gun. Huh.

Did I say it logical or a rational choice? Yeah lets pretend human beings are incapable of doing completely stupid stuff. Especially kids. That's more believable then what I said apparently.
Also I didn't say "more likely" so thanks for putting words in my mouth. I said that there are reasons why someone may point a bb gun at a cop in response to the complete denial at the possibility of it ever happening.

 

[urge26]

I got a DUI when I was 21. When I saw myself getting lit up behind me I knew I was instantly fucked. What did I do? I pulled over and fucking complied. I will teach my girls the same thing. Do I think there's racist cops out there targeting blacks? Absolutely. Do I believe there are Ohio cops out there targeting children to flat out kill? Hell no. You can say what you want, don't care. I was very vocal on the killing of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. And if I were African American, I'd fucking teach my kids to never run from the cops, and to fucking comply to everything just to stay alive.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

There are tons of great cops. Stop bashing them All

I agree there are tons of great cops. So many that would take a bullet for a complete stranger no matter the color of their skin. The problem is people still believe an official story put out by the cops even after being shown that time and time again, the official stories have been straight up lies to protect themselves. Instead immediately take their word for it that a 13 year old kid commited suicide by cop. Im with the wait for the facts crowd but I am waiting for the facts to prove the innocence of the officers, not the guilt of a child.

 

[aeolist]

I got a DUI when I was 21. When I saw myself getting lit up behind me I knew I was instantly fucked. What did I do? I pulled over and fucking complied. I will teach my girls the same thing. Do I think there's racist cops out there targeting blacks? Absolutely. Do I believe there are Ohio cops out there targeting children to flat out kill? Hell no. You can say what you want, don't care. I was very vocal on the killing of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. And if I were African American, I'd fucking teach my kids to never run from the cops, and to fucking comply to everything just to stay alive.

it literally doesn't matter, there's plenty of cases when black people perfectly comply and do everything they're supposed to and still get shot

not to mention the fact that a) it's the responsibility of police to not shoot people who shouldn't be shot and b) the fact that we have to treat cops like potentially rabid dogs in every situation is completely fucked

 

[Senoculum]

What the hell are you talking about? He was running from the police who were wrongfully trying to arrest him for a crime he had no involvement in, and most likely fearing for his life because he knew they would think that BB Gun was a real gun and try and kill him for it.

Not that I think Tyree King was wrong for running at the moment. But it's largely telling the culture that encourages youth to run away from cops who are seeking real suspects.

If only the cops didn't look so intimidating as they approached. If only the kids could stay calm and talk themselves out of it. If only he didn't have a BB gun. If only the gun culture wasn't as fucked.

It's just tragic all around.

America, you have to clean up your own house.

 

[stufte]

This doesn't excuse them when they kill people for no reason other than fear. They should get consequences, instead they get a pat on the back, smelted gold coins in their honor celebrating their kills, and worshipped by a majority of society. This was a fucking 7th grader, the cops could've easily taken care of the kid, even using the hand to hand training they supposedly get. Nope, gun him down like a coward.

Yes there should be consequences, I agree that police are often let off in instances where they should *at very least* be removed from active duty for the psychological effects of killing another human. But lets not pretend that (if the police account of this is correct) that ANYONE would choose "hand to hand" training to resolve what (according to them) was a firearm about to be used against them. Shit is complicated man.

 

[urge26]

it literally doesn't matter, there's plenty of cases when black people perfectly comply and do everything they're supposed to and still get shot

not to mention the fact that a) it's the responsibility of police to not shoot people who shouldn't be shot and b) the fact that we have to treat cops like potentially rabid dogs in every situation is completely fucked

Kids? can you link facts please.

 

[kmfdmpig]

This doesn't excuse them when they kill people for no reason other than fear. They should get consequences, instead they get a pat on the back, smelted gold coins in their honor celebrating their kills, and worshipped by a majority of society. This was a fucking 7th grader, the cops could've easily taken care of the kid, even using the hand to hand training they supposedly get. Nope, gun him down like a coward.

If the cop is lying about the 13 year old pulling out the gun then he should absolutely be prosecuted.

If, however, the 13 year old did pull out a gun then the fact that he's younger (which is not something that is always apparent as plenty of 13 year old children are tall enough to pass as adults from a short distance) does not make him less of a threat if he has a gun. The argument that it's not a real gun doesn't really work as it sure looks like a real gun.

The victim's age makes this even more of a tragedy than it would be, but does not change the basic issue of whether the cop thought he was acting in self-defense. I don't see any reason why any cop would engage with someone with a drawn gun using hand to hand techniques.

Obviously, if the cop is lying then that changes the situation altogether and should lead to a prosecution (although if recent history is a guide it likely won't lead to a conviction, unfortunately).

 

[JustenP88]

I got a DUI when I was 21. When I saw myself getting lit up behind me I knew I was instantly fucked. What did I do? I pulled over and fucking complied. I will teach my girls the same thing. Do I think there's racist cops out there targeting blacks? Absolutely. Do I believe there are Ohio cops out there targeting children to flat out kill? Hell no. You can say what you want, don't care. I was very vocal on the killing of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. And if I were African American, I'd fucking teach my kids to never run from the cops, and to fucking comply to everything just to stay alive.

That's fine and all but we need to get past the point where we treat interactions with police officers the same way we treat interactions with a wild bear. Incomplete compliance should not constitute lethal retribution.

Kids? can you link facts please.

Tamir Rice never got the opportunity to comply.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I imagine in these cases the person never pulls it with the intent to fire, and the article doesn't claim that. Some people's gut instinct is the take the fake or BB weapon out to show that it's not real, which in its early stages looks just like drawing it to use it. It's a tragic mistake when the kid was probably just trying to show that it wasn't a real gun.

I've yet to see an high-profile case where this actually happened. As I mentioned, in both of the previous cases, it was shown that Tamir Rice was killed in a virtual drive-by, and that John Crawford was executed on sight. And yet, in both cases, officers claimed that the firearm had been pulled on them/aimed at them (and in the case of Crawford, that he again reached for the firearm after having been shot to the ground).

This is why police cams are so important - they reduce the level of ambiguity and unreliable witnesses. And they reduce false reports against the police, which you'd think more officers would be for. Skepticism of the "official story" will always be the default when they've been caught with their pants down so often.

 

[tfur]

So the rate at which American police officers resort to violence (lethal and otherwise) is acceptable? "The majority of encounters don't end in death or violence" isn't a compelling deflection.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries

It is not a deflection. It is a fact that most encounters do not end in violence. It is higher in the US, since we have higher rates of violent crime, and crime in general.

Black people are 13% of the population. White People are over 60%.


Here are the rates of people killed by cops (per million Americans) by race last year:

Black - 7.13
Latino - 3.48
Native - 3.40
White - 2.91
Asian - 1.34

So black people are close to 2.5x more likely to be killed by cops. I can't quickly find any stats about unarmed people killed by cops, but I would assume that is higher as well for black Americans.

True, now post the statistics for rates of assorted crimes (for example robberies, homicides etc) for each race you listed. Having higher rates of crimes for any particular group by definition leads to higher rates of interaction with the offenders.

 

[aeolist]

Kids? can you link facts please.

1) cops routinely mistake young black kids for adults

2) tamir rice (this isn't even an example of someone complying and getting shot because he was given no orders to follow and no time to follow them, it was just a drive by)

 

[urge26]

That's fine and all but we need to get past the point where we treat interactions with police officers the same way we treat interactions with a wild bear. Incomplete compliance should not constitute lethal retribution.

It's unfortunate, but have you seen any politician do something to curb this? As a parent, my concern would be to stay alive.

 

[echoshifting]

I'd like to note that neither this story nor the source it links to state that the boy ever pointed the gun at police or did anything threatening with it beyond removing it from his waistband. Please keep that in mind when speculating about a child attempting to threaten a group of police officers with his BB gun.

 

[DashReindeer]

You should wait for the facts to come out. He very well could have robbed that person.

While that may be true, it seems unlikely at this point that he had anything to do with it. According to the AP:

"The male who had been with Tyree was interviewed and released pending further investigation, police said. They provided no further information about him.

Police said additional suspects were being sought as the shooting and reported robbery remained under investigation."

 

[kirblar]

So the rate at which American police officers resort to violence (lethal and otherwise) is acceptable? "The majority of encounters don't end in death or violence" isn't a compelling deflection.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries

As long as the US has incredibly lax gun laws, our police will kill more people because of it. It's a direct, rational, response to our shitty 2nd amendment's interpretation.

That doesn't mean the current ratios are ok, that every shooting is justified/acceptable/etc.

 

[NastyBook]

I got a DUI when I was 21. When I saw myself getting lit up behind me I knew I was instantly fucked. What did I do? I pulled over and fucking complied. I will teach my girls the same thing. Do I think there's racist cops out there targeting blacks? Absolutely. Do I believe there are Ohio cops out there targeting children to flat out kill? Hell no. You can say what you want, don't care. I was very vocal on the killing of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. And if I were African American, I'd fucking teach my kids to never run from the cops, and to fucking comply to everything just to stay alive.

This post is the epitome of out of touch. Fucking police shot the caretaker of a mentally ill patient while he was lying on the ground, complying with the officer's EVERY order. Shot him anyway, then cuffed him, then let him bleed for 30 minutes after that. But go ahead and keep telling us how we should raise our kids, Parent of the Year.

 

[Diatribe1974]

I look forward to the day in which there's body cams on every Police officer so we can tell the loud mouths who scream "I didn't do nuthin...." to STFU because they got what they deserved and then hammer down on the cops who overreacted against an innocent person.

 

[atr0cious]

If the cop is lying about the 13 year old pulling out the gun

Tamir Rice's killer is laughing at you.

 

[urge26]

1) cops routinely mistake young black kids for adults

2) tamir rice (this isn't even an example of someone complying and getting shot because he was given no orders to follow and no time to follow them, it was just a drive by)

You're making broad statements. Tamir Rice is one case. You say there are "plenty" out there. By plenty what are we talking about percentage wise? Again, I'm not justifying police actions. But you don't know that child DIDN'T pull a weapon out on that cop, as much as we know he did.

 

[DashReindeer]

If the cop is lying about the 13 year old pulling out the gun then he should absolutely be prosecuted.

If, however, the 13 year old did pull out a gun then the fact that he's younger (which is not something that is always apparent as plenty of 13 year old children are tall enough to pass as adults from a short distance) does not make him less of a threat if he has a gun. The argument that it's not a real gun doesn't really work as it sure looks like a real gun.

The victim's age makes this even more of a tragedy than it would be, but does not change the basic issue of whether the cop thought he was acting in self-defense. I don't see any reason why any cop would engage with someone with a drawn gun using hand to hand techniques.

Obviously, if the cop is lying then that changes the situation altogether and should lead to a prosecution (although if recent history is a guide it likely won't lead to a conviction, unfortunately).

Especially if the child in question is black amirite?

Black Boys Viewed as Older, Less Innocent Than Whites, Research Finds

 

[urge26]

This post is the epitome of out of touch. Fucking police shot the caretaker of a mentally ill patient while he was lying on the ground, complying with the officer's EVERY order. Shot him anyway, then cuffed him, then let him bleed for 30 minutes after that. But go ahead and keep telling us how we should raise our kids, Parent of the Year.

And what will you tell your children there NastyBook? Do you have options to play with?

 

[aeolist]

You're making broad statements. Tamir Rice is one case. You say there are "plenty" out there. By plenty what are we talking about percentage wise? Again, I'm not justifying police actions. But you don't know that child DIDN'T pull a weapon out on that cop, as much as we know he did.

i know that every time this has happened in my memory the official police story has been a total fabrication

so no, i don't know that he didn't pull a weapon, but i'm pretty damn sure that the cops are lying fucks

 

[NeonBlack]

Kids? can you link facts please.

Not a kid but he did comply

you people who automatically assume the cop is guilty aren't helping

Well we would get the other side of the story but

 

[Hippopuncher12]

it's not illegal in ohio to openly carry a real gun

cops there need to be ready to deal with that and not shoot every person they see carrying

of course they already don't shoot armed white people

It says he pulled the gun out...no offense but I would have shot as well. Having it on you and pulling it out when cops are trying to arrest you are different things.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Cops "He pointed his gun at us"
General Public "We believe you no worries"

Kaep "I'm not standing for the anthem to protest police treatmentbof POC"
General Public "This isn't even a problem. We don't believe you"

 

[17 Seconds]

you people who automatically assume the cop is guilty aren't helping

 

[aeolist]

It says he pulled the gun out...no offense but I would have shot as well. Having it on you and pulling it out when cops are trying to arrest you are different things.

why do you believe the cops?

 

[kmfdmpig]

Tamir Rice's killer is laughing at you.

Cops lie and should absolutely be prosecuted when they do.

Body cams should be used at all times and not made so they can be disabled. Police that tamper with body cams should be disciplined severely.

With that said, some instances of policy lying =/= everything any cop says is a lie and that we should automatically dismiss what they say. Staying skeptical, wanting more information, etc... is very reasonable. Dismissing the potential that they may be telling the truth seems unreasonable.

 

[atr0cious]

you people who automatically assume the cop is guilty aren't helping

We have less reason to believe them. They have every motive to lie.

 

[Shmuppers]

why do you believe the cops?

Does "innocent until proven guilty" apply here?

 

[aeolist]

Does "innocent until proven guilty" apply here?

i'm not saying the cops are specifically guilty of anything, i'm saying that given patterns of police actions in the country i do not ever give them the benefit of the doubt

 

[jordan0386]

you people who automatically assume the cop is guilty aren't helping

Last three years of social media have showed us, cops really ain't shit.

Don't defend them unless one saved your life or you have family that are police.

 

[Kettch]

Yeah, I'm sure he pulled the gun on them just like Tamir Rice did.

Oh, who am I kidding, the same people probably think both shootings were justified.

 

[urge26]

Does "innocent until proven guilty" apply here?

No because the mentality in the thread is that all cops are corrupt, so fuck any logic.

 

[Vilix]

it literally doesn't matter, there's plenty of cases when black people perfectly comply and do everything they're supposed to and still get shot

not to mention the fact that a) it's the responsibility of police to not shoot people who shouldn't be shot and b) the fact that we have to treat cops like potentially rabid dogs in every situation is completely fucked

True. But, in this particular case the kid ran and pulled his gun when the cops tried to arrest him. IMO the officer was right to use lethal force.

 

[DashReindeer]

Does "innocent until proven guilty" apply here?

Now there is some damn irony. You are the one who just told me that the dead kid might have robbed that other guy when absolutely nothing proves that guilt.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Does "innocent until proven guilty" apply here?

This isn't a court case. It sounds like bullshit. We are not swallowing it.

 

[Hippopuncher12]

why do you believe the cops?

I'm not saying I do. I am just stating if HE DID pull a gun out I would have shot as well. If they made it up then screw them and let them burn for being crooked asshats. I should have specified in my original post I wasn't "siding" with them or anything.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

Someone dig up some posts in the Tamir Rice thread.

then put them side by side with posts in this thread, will they be identical?

 

[The Beard]

does it matter? No, its a fucking open carry state, unless of, you are, in fact heavy on the melanin.

Open carry doesn't allow you to reach for your gun while cops are trying to detain you though. So, I don't know what your point is pertaining to this particular incident.

However, the only thing we know is what the cops have told us. Which means it could very well be a bullshit story. I find it very hard to believe that anyone would be stupid enough to pull a BB gun on an officer. This is why police cameras need to be 100% mandatory.

 

[PdotMichael]

Armed robbery suspect with a gun who drew it on them when cops approached him.

I can see why cops reacted this way.

That such posts are a thing shows how fucked up gun and police culture are in the USA.

 

[jordan0386]

True. But, in this particular case the kid ran and pulled his gun when the cops tried to arrest him. IMO the officer was right to use lethal force.

It clearly says allegedly, bruh...

 

[JustenP88]

It is not a deflection. It is a fact that most encounters do not end in violence. It is higher in the US, since we have higher rates of violent crime, and crime in general.

Gotcha. So American police are just out there doing their best to keep the most lawless, savage population of degenerates on the planet in line.

Incarceration rates are higher than any other nation on earth. Violent crime has been consistently trending downwards over the past couple decades. Again, it's just not compelling to imply that this is all manufactured hysteria. It happens more here than any other "first-world" nation. Full stop. That's a real issue. It's not paranoia.

 

[DerangedHermit]

Does "innocent until proven guilty" apply here?

It didn't for the kid who is dead now.

 

[Shmuppers]

Now there is some damn irony. You are the one who just told me that the dead kid might have robbed that other guy when absolutely nothing proves that guilt.

I said that you, I, and everyone should wait for the facts to come out. "Very well could have" not "he did".

I see why you would think that though

 

[M.J. Doja]

Is it that easy to assume the kid was "Stupid enough at 13 years old to point a fake gun at a police officer that chased him down"? Seems like some of you were never kids if you think thats how a 13 year old thinks.

I think it's easier to assume that this was another trigger happy cop.

 

[therealist]

Black people are 13% of the population. White People are over 60%.


Here are the rates of people killed by cops (per million Americans) by race last year:

Black - 7.13
Latino - 3.48
Native - 3.40
White - 2.91
Asian - 1.34

So black people are close to 2.5x more likely to be killed by cops. I can't quickly find any stats about unarmed people killed by cops, but I would assume that is higher as well for black Americans.

FYI it's worth acknowledging a recent study done by a harvard professor that says that blacks are not more likely to be killed by cops.

 

[Bluenoser]

Let's not ignore the fact that a 13 year old is wandering around at night with a BB gun. I mean, what was the reason he had that gun to begin with? It's not a real gun but it's still dangerous, and it is relevant, because he was definitely not using it to hunt squirrels.

Cops should definitely not be given the benefit of the doubt, based on what we've seen over the past year, but we need more details to judge this incident.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Are we really supposed to believe that the kid pulled his BB gun on a cop?! He had to know he'd be shot dead for such a pointless action. Smells like total fucking horseshit to me.