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[NastyBook]

And what will you tell your children there NastyBook? Do you have options to play with?

No, because there aren't any. I could tell them to comply until I was blue in the face, but it would just be easier to tell them to prepare for the absolute worst.

 

[Euphor!a]

Is it that easy to assume the kid was "Stupid enough at 13 years old to point a fake gun at a police officer that chased him down"? Seems like some of you were never kids if you think thats how a 13 year old thinks.

I think it's easier to assume that this was another trigger happy cop.

I didn't know any 13 year olds that would run from the cops either, so I doubt that logic applies.

 

[rc213]

Not surprised to see a bunch of "Guys don't pile on all cops but he probably deserved it" type posts.

Not long before the character assassination begins, I heard he stole a pack of crayons in the fifth grade. Sounds like a bad apple, Shooting justified...

 

[What did he mean by this?]

Let's not ignore the fact that a 13 year old is wandering around at night with a BB gun. I mean, what was the reason he had that gun to begin with? It's not a real gun but it's still dangerous, and it is relevant, because he was definitely not using it to hunt squirrels.

Cops should definitely not be given the benefit of the doubt, based on what we've seen over the past year, but we need more details to judge this incident.

That's right; he was no angel clearly. Playing with your friends after dark, what was he up to?

Edit: Hey man, I'm just asking questions

 

[urge26]

Let's not ignore the fact that a 13 year old is wandering around at night with a BB gun. I mean, what was the reason he had that gun to begin with? It's not a real gun but it's still dangerous, and it is relevant, because he was definitely not using it to hunt squirrels.

Remember, we're supposed to ignore this.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Let's not ignore the fact that a 13 year old is wandering around at night with a BB gun. I mean, what was the reason he had that gun to begin with? It's not a real gun but it's still dangerous, and it is relevant, because he was definitely not using it to hunt squirrels.

Cops should definitely not be given the benefit of the doubt, based on what we've seen over the past year, but we need more details to judge this incident.

Maybe the kid even had priors. Probably got caught with weed in his backpack at some point.

 

[jordan0386]

FYI it's worth acknowledging a recent study done by a harvard professor that says that blacks are not more likely to be killed by cops.

Not the point of anything.

The point of the latest wave of incidents/protest is to highlight unarmed blacks being killed.

No one asked for proof of how much, we want it cut and ended.

 

[Shmuppers]

It didn't for the kid who is dead now.

I can't speak to the competence of the cop

Everyone has the right to due process

 

[Wagram]

It sucks that he was shot, but I mean, what did he expect would happen? You don't pull out a weapon or anything resembling one while in that situation, especially something with a lazer pointer.

 

[aeolist]

Remember, we're supposed to ignore this.

why is it relevant? holding a bb gun at night isn't a crime

 

[urge26]

No, because there aren't any. I could tell them to comply until I was blue in the face, but it would just be easier to tell them to prepare for the absolute worst.

Ok, well that's pretty much all you can do until race relations in this country are made a priority. But thanks for the "parent of the year" jab, I try my best.... subscribe to my Patreon.

 

[urge26]

why is it relevant? holding a bb gun at night isn't a crime

Please, running around with fake guns that look like guns automatically put you in a position to get fucked. Do my children run around at night? no. Do they run around at night with BB Guns? no. Are they allowed to do either? no.

 

[therealist]

Not the point of anything.

The point of the latest wave of incidents/protest is to highlight unarmed blacks being killed.

No one asked for proof of how much, we want it cut and ended.

but a significant reason that people are angry is because they believe blacks are much more likely to be killed than any other race. That's the main talking point in all of these kinds of threads.

 

[stufte]

Is it that easy to assume the kid was "Stupid enough at 13 years old to point a fake gun at a police officer that chased him down"? Seems like some of you were never kids if you think thats how a 13 year old thinks.

I think it's easier to assume that this was another trigger happy cop.

I was stupid at 13. I am the parent of a 13 year old. 13 year olds can make MONUMENTALLY stupid decisions. Why do you think that pointing a fake gun at the police is somehow an impossibility? I don't know if he did, it could absolutely be another case of a trigger happy cop, but lets not just pretend that 13 year olds are incapable of doing life threateningly stupid shit.

 

[aeolist]

Please, running around with fake guns that look like guns automatically put you in a position to get fucked. Do my children run around at night? no. Do they run around at night with BB Guns? no. Are they allowed to do either? no.

i'm so glad you're a perfect parent, but being a bad one isn't any more illegal than a kid carrying a bb gun

 

[Euphor!a]

why is it relevant? holding a bb gun at night isn't a crime

I find it hard to believe that it is not illegal to be wandering around at night carrying a bb gun that looks like a real gun. I know it is illegal in New York.

 

[urge26]

i'm so glad you're a perfect parent, but being a bad one isn't any more illegal than a kid carrying a bb gun

Far from perfect... but I am one, and I do participate in my kids lives. But thanks for the compliment!

 

[adamsappel]

Did I say it logical or a rational choice? Yeah lets pretend human beings are incapable of doing completely stupid stuff. Especially kids. That's more believable then what I said apparently.
Also I didn't say "more likely" so thanks for putting words in my mouth. I said that there are reasons why someone may point a bb gun at a cop in response to the complete denial at the possibility of it ever happening.

You said him throwing the gun away was "probably the furthest thing from his mind," then spitballed he might have wanted to scare the cops or shoot them in the eye. Your instinct was to assign the victim with culpability in his own death. Is this because you don't like the thought that police officers might be systemically more inclined to mete deadly force to minorities? That scares me, too.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

FYI it's worth acknowledging a recent study done by a harvard professor that says that blacks are not more likely to be killed by cops.

It said that at the actual point of encounter they were no more likely to be killed than a white person (flawed ass methodology and all).

However it also noted that blacks are by far more racially targeted and mistreated by police. They are stopped at staggerly higher rates. And if you put two ajd two together it says that because the police sjow huge bias against them they have more encounters and more encounters equals more probability of being involved in a violent encounter.

Of course you dont really give a shit about that.

 

[atr0cious]

FYI it's worth acknowledging a recent study done by a harvard professor that says that blacks are not more likely to be killed by cops.

This was a bad very biased study that has been thrown out and even Uncle Don Lemon laughs at it's use by Trump surrogates.

 

[Euphor!a]

i'm so glad you're a perfect parent, but being a bad one isn't any more illegal than a kid carrying a bb gun

Uh, depends on how bad but it certainly fucking is lol.

 

[Pollux]

I think you need to read up on Ohio's gun laws. One, it's an open carry state. Citizens are permitted by law to carry firearms. Two, he's a 13-year old boy. It's quite obvious if someone is a child or not. I hope sweet justice is brought swiftly upon the officer who shot him.

Actually in the heat of he moment it might not be that obvious. I'm a prosecutor and mainly prosecute juveniles for everything from minor misdemeanors up through rape and felonious assault, there are plenty of kids (white and black) that look like they're in their 20s when they're really only 14, 15, or 16.

 

[echoshifting]

FYI it's worth acknowledging a recent study done by a harvard professor that says that blacks are not more likely to be killed by cops.

Okay, but then let's also acknowledge the limits of that study and any conclusion that can be drawn from it:

Then, of course, there are those limitations. First, much of the data on shootings comes from major cities with large black populations, which might be more sensitive about race issues in policing. This is especially striking when you consider that the most famous shooting of recent years took place in Ferguson, Missouri, a small, inner-ring suburb with its own police department. “It is possible that these departments only supplied the data because they are either enlightened or were not concerned about what the analysis would reveal,” Fryer writes. “In essence, this is equivalent to analyzing labor market discrimination on a set of firms willing to supply a researcher with their Human Resources data!” Who knows how the situation may look in other cities or towns. “Relatedly, even police departments willing to supply data may contain police officers who present contextual factors at that time of an incident in a biased manner,” Fryer adds—which is a polite researcher's way of saying that the study relies on reports written by officers who may well be lying about what really transpired.

Readers also need to be cautious about how they interpret the findings. Once again, Fryer suggests blacks and Hispanics are no more likely to be shot than whites after they've been stopped by police. But as a few sharp writers have noted Monday, that doesn't tell us anything about whether people of color are being stopped excessively in the first place. And in parts of the country, they almost certainly are. In one-third white Ferguson, blacks made up 93 percent of arrests and 85 percent of traffic stops. Philando Castile was stopped by cops 52 times in 14 years before he was shot and killed by an officer in Minnesota last week. Fryer's paper may simply be telling us that deadly bias in American policing has less to do with how cops decide to pull the trigger and more to do with how they interact with the community overall. Hopefully, researchers will be able to replicate his in-depth analysis of Houston in many more cities to give us a better sense of whether that is actually the case.

Columbus has a majority white population - by a wide margin - so I'd be especially skeptical of any attempt to apply the conclusions of that study in this specific case.

edit:

This was a bad very biased study that has been thrown out and even Uncle Don Lemon laughs at it's use by Trump surrogates.

Oh, well, there it is.

 

[stufte]

This was a bad very biased study that has been thrown out and even Uncle Don Lemon laughs at it's use by Trump surrogates.

 

[Brinbe]

Sad shit =(

 

[Shmuppers]

I find it hard to believe that it is not illegal to be wandering around at night carrying a bb gun that looks like a real gun. I know it is illegal in New York.

Open carry is legal in Ohio, granted that you have a license.

 

[BigDes]

I find it hard to believe that it is not illegal to be wandering around at night carrying a bb gun that looks like a real gun. I know it is illegal in New York.

Ohio is open carry, so I assume it is legal to carry around a gun regardless of the time of day

 

[JustenP88]

Let's not ignore the fact that a 13 year old is wandering around at night with a BB gun. I mean, what was the reason he had that gun to begin with? It's not a real gun but it's still dangerous, and it is relevant, because he was definitely not using it to hunt squirrels.

Cops should definitely not be given the benefit of the doubt, based on what we've seen over the past year, but we need more details to judge this incident.

In a state where open-carry of firearms is legal, we need to worry about why this child was carrying a BB gun? I dunno, because he wanted to? You think he may have been up to some nefarious shit that would retroactively justify his death or something?

 

[atr0cious]

Does this offend you?

 

[Euphor!a]

Open carry is legal in Ohio, granted that you have a license.

Ohio is open carry, so I assume it is legal to carry around a gun regardless of the time of day

People keep saying this like it matters. Did he have an open carry license? No? Then it was illegal. Just like carrying a bb gun that looks like a real gun.

 

[kmfdmpig]

why is it relevant? holding a bb gun at night isn't a crime

If we believe the cop's story then the fact that it was a bb gun is irrelevant as it looks like a real gun. Other cops in similar situations certainly lied, so it's possible that this cop is as well.
No one, I hope, is arguing that the child should have been shot. The point is that if the cop is telling the truth and the gun appeared real (it's not a nerf gun that is obviously fake, but instead looks like a real gun) then the cop would perceive it as a viable threat. That doesn't make it less tragic.
If someone aimed a gun at you with no bullets and you defended yourself then no one would say "it had no bullets and therefore was not a viable threat". They would understand that you would not have a way of knowing that and would therefore understand why you defended yourself.

If America cleaned up its massive gun problem, had body cams on all cops all the time, and didn't allow bb guns that look like real guns then this type of shit would not happen.

 

[M.J. Doja]

I didn't know any 13 year olds that would run from the cops either, so I doubt that logic applies.

I remember when we used to get up to skateboarding mischief or lighting off fireworks, we would run from cops because we didn't want to get in trouble.

Totally different from the mindset of an adult criminal. At 13 you aren't even thinking of getting arrested for gun possession, let alone mistaken for an armed robber. Stupid kid, but it didn't have to be that way.

 

[jordan0386]

Actually in the heat of he moment it might not be that obvious. I'm a prosecutor and mainly prosecute juveniles for everything from minor misdemeanors up through rape and felonious assault, there are plenty of kids (white and black) that look like they're in their 20s when they're really only 14, 15, or 16.

You sending everybody to jail or are there programs in place to help those who need it?

 

[stufte]

Does this offend you?

No, but it's definitely a shitty parallel to make.

 

[kswiston]

The Washington Post has a pretty good write-up of that study and related studies:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ngs-of-whites-and-blacks-is-so-controversial/

 

[aeolist]

If America cleaned up its massive gun problem, had body cams on all cops all the time, and didn't allow bb guns that look like real guns then this type of shit would not happen.

this isn't a gun problem, this is a race problem. even if all that happened black people would still be gunned down on the street with little to no repercussions for the cops because white supremacy is alive and well in america today.

 

[blankempathy]

You said him throwing the gun away was "probably the furthest thing from his mind," then spitballed he might have wanted to scare the cops or shoot them in the eye. Your instinct was to assign the victim with culpability in his own death. Is this because you don't like the thought that police officers might be systemically more inclined to mete deadly force to minorities? That scares me, too.

No what I said was him thinking about throwing the gun away because of the social/political climate of the country was probably the furthest thing from his mind. Context is important seeing as some of the posts before mine were saying he wouldn't point a fake gun at a police officer because he would know that's a death sentence due to all the media coverage certain incidents have been getting. If I had said that "throwing the gun away" and stopped there then you'd have a point. He may have been attempting to throw the gun away for all we know but it likely would of been for different reasons then the one I stated above. Not all actions are performed with the same motives. Also there you go again trying to put words in my mouth. Gotta love these "gotcha" arguments.

 

[Shmuppers]

People keep saying this like it matters. Did he have an open carry license? No? Then it was illegal. Just like carrying a bb gun that looks like a real gun.

Are you an expert on Ohio law? Can you please direct me to where it says that carrying a BB gun at night is illegal?

 

[BigDes]

People keep saying this like it matters. Did he have an open carry license? No? Then it was illegal. Just like carrying a bb gun that looks like a real gun.

So when did they take the time to ascertain whether he had a licence or not?

 

[stufte]

The Washington Post has a pretty good write-up of that study and related studies:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ngs-of-whites-and-blacks-is-so-controversial/

Nah, that study is shit. I was talking about his Uncle Tom comment.

 

[atr0cious]

No, but it's definitely a shitty parallel to make.

I don't know what you're talking about now.

 

[Pollux]

You sending everybody to jail or are there programs in place to help those who need it?

Probably 95% or more do probation and treatment programs (such as drug and alcohol treatment or mental health treatment). They may get 5-10 days in detention depending on the offense.

My docket is the more serious stuff. Lately a lot of stolen cars, felonious assaults, sex crimes, and robberies. So my cases skew more towards kids getting locked up. But that "locked up" could mean anything from a locked treatment facility (we have at least 4 that offer different treatment options and programs) all the way up to the juvenile prison most people think of. I think I've only sent ablut 5 juveniles (all 16 and up) to juvenile prison in the last 6 months.

 

[Euphor!a]

Are you an expert on Ohio law? Can you please direct me to where it says that carrying a BB gun at night is illegal?

Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland have laws restricting air guns and pellet guns. Fox 19-WXIX explains Cincinnati classifies airsoft guns as "dangerous weapons" that cannot be used in public, and the guns cannot be sold within 1,000 feet of a school. Cleveland and Columbus prohibit pellet guns in public spaces. Nowhere is there a limit on who can buy pellet guns or what minimum age a customer must be to purchase airsoft guns in Ohio.

Happy?

 

[Euphor!a]

So when did they take the time to ascertain whether he had a licence or not?

Probably when he saw that he was a minor.

 

[tfur]

Gotcha. So American police are just out there doing their best to keep the most lawless, savage population of degenerates on the planet in line.

I do not even know what this sentence means.

Incarceration rates are higher than any other nation on earth. Violent crime has been consistently trending downwards over the past couple decades. Again, it's just not compelling to imply that this is all manufactured hysteria. It happens more here than any other "first-world" nation. Full stop. That's a real issue. It's not paranoia.

Here is a report for 2011 on just traffic stops. http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=702

Summary finding show that most interactions are just as I said. .

An estimated 26.4 million persons age 16 or older indicated that their most recent contact with the police in 2011 was as a driver pulled over in a traffic stop. These drivers represented 12% of the nation's 212 million drivers.

I believe we have ~1000 people killed by police a year. Here just traffic stops show 26 million plus contacts with police no incident. Of course all incidents should be reviewed, but most are not an issue or lead to death.

 

[aeolist]

Actually in the heat of he moment it might not be that obvious. I'm a prosecutor and mainly prosecute juveniles for everything from minor misdemeanors up through rape and felonious assault, there are plenty of kids (white and black) that look like they're in their 20s when they're really only 14, 15, or 16.

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/black-boys-older.aspx

 

[Bluenoser]

In a state where open-carry of firearms is legal, we need to worry about why this child was carrying a BB gun? I dunno, because he wanted to? You think he may have been up to some nefarious shit that would retroactively justify his death or something?

Saying he may have been a little shit who was up to no good (not saying that by the way, just as example) does not mean his death was justified. The life of a 13 year old taken is almost never justified, no matter what they did, but for now all we have is the officer's account of events- hopefully more will surface.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Please, running around with fake guns that look like guns automatically put you in a position to get fucked. Do my children run around at night? no. Do they run around at night with BB Guns? no. Are they allowed to do either? no.

The BB gun only became an issue after the police targetted the group for fitting a profile. And apprently the police said they were innocent so what the fuck are you talking about? You don't know anything about those kids lives or their circumstances. So who are you to play this higher than thou shit about a dead kid?

 

[BigDes]

Probably when he saw that he was a minor.

Cops seeing black kids as being much older than they actually are is a well known thing.

 

[urge26]

Shit like this is why these discussions are getting ever more dismissive and heated.

Fucking Google it yourself, FFS. It gets tiring having every single one of these threads packed with people who throw the burden of proof on victims and defenders. Go look some shit up on previous cases, then come back and spout off an opinion. Please.

It's like you have to be a fucking professor to talk about these cases, or anything involving race in any way. Gotta carry around a bag full of fucking pamphlets to hand out before people remember the billion other stories they probably commented on in the same way.

If someone is going to make broad statements in a thread, fucking back it up. It's not my job to go out and justify someone's post. Jesus.