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[gofreak]

The IBM roadmap calls for a chip that basically reuses the same architecture (improved SPUs) by 2011 that's in the 1Tflop range. Which would be a bit better than 2x.

Reusing the architecture or something close to it doesn't really tell us anything about how powerful it will or won't be. It's a very scalable architecture.

I guess we'll wait and see. I hope their speculation is incorrect, and if it's not, that it doesn't signal a general trend for the industry.

 

[Mahadev]

Seriously? A Deadmeat link?

Seriously?

 

[WinFonda]

Why are some of you guys getting the impression Sony wants to abandon core gamers? My take on this is that they want to substantially decrease the cost of PS4 by utilizing much of the same technology they've already invested in with the PS3. This is not necessarily a strategy designed to capture some elusive casual market -- although I'm sure they hope so. But at the end of the day it sounds like they're trying to keep their next console reasonably affordable in a tightening global economy.

 

[orioto]

That's the only thing Sony (And Microsoft) can do to avoid industry apocalype !

And this gen graphics shouldn't be underrated.

All games of this gen are so heavy for current machines, wich are too big and too fragile.

A low cost, more little PS3 that would output Uncharted in 1080p/60fps... I mean even just Uncharted (or MGS4, or GoW2 on 360) with stable 60fps and 1080p + good AA (+ probably some pointer added to the control)... Wouldn't it be reaaaally wowing !

 

[kevm3]

Highly doubt that this is true, especially coming from "Deadmeat."

If Sony is stupid enough to try something like this, time to jump over to Microsoft's camp.

 

[Dante]

Deadmeat :lol

 

[dude404]

I haven't bought a next gen system yet because I was disappointed in the power of the xbox 360/ PS3. This news just saddens me even more.

 

[amar212]

Me want - day one.

I do not care about anything since it's the new concole. And I like new consoles VERY MUCH. 2 new platforms in 2011 - it's just TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE.

Also, Gran Turismo 6: Prologue on PS4 confirmed, since PD pushed GT5 up to 2010

I really do not see what is the problem that some people have about news such as these - you'll get new platform for the cost of new PC graphic card. For me there is no problem. Or maybe I'm crazy here.

 

[cartman414]

Unlike Microsoft who drops and stops making their consoles...

MS is only on their second console. And they ditched XBOX because they weren't able to reduce costs any further without taking a hit due to the fixed model internal HDD (for lack of better term).

Nintendo would still find a way to gimp the potential of having the most powerful hardware though. Like using fucking 8 track cassettes as their choice for media storage.

That is so ten years ago.

 

[AnimeTheme]

If there is anything really official from Sony on that article, it is probably just "Sony has begun seriously considering basing the upcoming PlayStation 4 on the same Cell processor architecture that currently powers the PS3". All others are just the comments and (subjective) analysis of the reporter (some of them make sense though).

 

[camineet]

I am starting to think that the modest increase (2x) may only apply to the CELL processor, its raw specs (cores, MHz). The GPU choice could make PS4 an absolute BEAST. Ps3 would've been a graphical beast if Sony/Nvidia had used a G80 variant in PS3. IMO they went cheap with the PS3 GPU, but PS4 will be another story I am sure.

As I've said, current highend PC GPUs of 2008 are already at least 5 times more powerful than PS3's GPU. what will 3 more years do? PS4 could be a modest increase in CPU yet a large increase in GPU and another large increase in memory. Memory/RAM is very important. not just the amount of it, but the bandwidth, latency and overall memory architecture.

The Wii might only be 1.5x (50%) more powerful than GameCube, yet, Wii has 3.5x the amount of relatively fast RAM (88 MB vs 24 MB), that makes a big difference.

PS4 I am sure will be a larger leap over PS3 than Wii was over GCN, even if PS4's CELL is only 2x the PS3 CELL (graphics/GPU will be a big leap i am sure) and also come in at Sony's magic, market-winning $299 price point.

Besides, we are at the very very very least, 3 years away from PS4 launch, if 2011 is to be believed. Much could change. all it takes is a reasonably credible article to shift perceptions. I also think that PS4 will not be exactly what people might assume from this article, even if the article is credible. Things ALWAYS change from a set of expectations of any given day.

 

[FF_VIII]

if all the major players go wii-style, with consoles only slightly more powerful than what exists today, will this be the beginning of a PC resurgence? hardcore gamers move back to the PC

Hopefully

 

[KTallguy]

A PS4 with the same specs as the PS3 would be fine with me really. Add in more stuff for physics and I'll be totally content.

There's barely anything that takes advantage of the PS3 out there anyway.

Honestly, just add more ram and a dash of cell programming knowhow, and there's so much more you can get out of the machine. Here's hoping there's a standard HDD.

And honestly the PS3 is plenty powerful for my needs. I mean MGS4? LBP?
If the PS4 can run those games at 60 fps 1080p, great.

If anything, Sony needs to get out a slim PS3 ASAP.

 

[kevm3]

For one, Sony invested a ton of money into PS3 at a loss, so I highly doubt that they want to rush something to the market. they want the PS3 to be out as long as possible so that they can recoup their money. Secondly, Sony has been some of the biggest proponents of HD gaming, so I doubt they will release a weak system when they would love to see 1080p as a standard for their games. Third, it really makes no sense to rush a PS3 out there. FF10 will be out in 2010. GT5 may be late 2009, or even 2010, and we are just to expect PS4 to come out of nowhere 1 year after that? Who is developing games for PS4 that can be ready in a couple of years? Sony has so much of their money tied up in PS3 games right now. You don't launch a new console until after you've slowed current support. Four, there hasn't even been a slim PS3 yet... if one comes out at the end of 2009, they only will have a little over a year to market that. Doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Rainy Dog]

I usually don't click on threads like this but, now I'm here, here's my 2 cents :-

My first cent is that agree with Hoffman. A sub $300 launch price and making a profit from the off is essential this time. I see no other option in that regard. And in 2-3 years time at what spec would a $299 console turn a profit? Something which is probably not that much powerful that a PS3 save for more memory and a much bigger hard drive is my estimate. Which means...whats the point? Sony would be better off waiting it out, evolving the PS3 as much as possible in the meantime by slimming down, reducing price and power output, chucking in a waggle controller of sorts, and increasing storage space. Then in 5, 6 even 7 years time, launching a PS4 that is a genuinely more powerful piece of kit.

My second cent would be that I'd like to see Sony go back to inhouse developed proprietary components. The problems with off the shelf GPU's is that their limits are reached much too soon and with PC GPU's increasing the visual benchmarks as rapidly as they are, a console GPU is almost always gonna be outdated before it's even seen the light of day. The PS2 was still been pushed into its twilight years and I'd like to see something as exotic that can evolve in a similar fashion. That said, this approach would likely yield something even more leftfield and complex than the PS3 and we all know how that turned out re. developers getting their heads wrapped around it...

 

[65536]

Can the human eye even tell the difference in resolutions above 1080p at reasonable size/distances? Anything over 1080p is wishful thinking by screen manufacturers.

at most it will just be for easier upscaling, and not relevant to gaming.

You have got to be joking.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I usually don't click on threads like this but, now I'm here, here's my 2 cents :-

My first cent is that agree with Hoffman. A sub $300 launch price and making a profit from the off is essential this time. I see no other option in that regard. And in 2-3 years time at what spec would a $299 console turn a profit? Something which is probably not that much powerful that a PS3 save for more memory and a much bigger hard drive is my estimate. Which means...whats the point? Sony would be better off waiting it out, evolving the PS3 as much as possible in the meantime by slimming down, reducing price and power output, chucking in a waggle controller of sorts, and increasing storage space. Then in 5, 6 even 7 years time, launching a PS4 that is a genuinely more powerful piece of kit.

My second cent would be that I'd like to see Sony go back to inhouse developed proprietary components. The problems with off the shelf GPU's is that their limits are reached much too soon and with PC GPU's increasing the visual benchmarks as rapidly as they are, a console GPU is almost always gonna be outdated before it's even seen the light of day. The PS2 was still been pushed into its twilight years and I'd like to see something as exotic that can evolve in a similar fashion. That said, this approach would likely yield something even more leftfield and complex than the PS3 and we all know how that turned out re. developers getting their heads wrapped around it...

They focused on the cell last gen, and are keeping it with minor improvements apparently.

What are the chances of them focusing and developing their own gfx? Seem logical.

 

[cynlix]

Geezz...Next gen already? I think I might skip the current gen all together (aside from the wii). I mean I'm scared I'll blow up a 360 (I like to play in looonnngggg chunks of hours in one sitting), and ps3 still dosen't have alot of games that I would buy to warrant a purchase. Key word: alot. I just built a brand new PC that can pretty much handle crysis on close to max settings....I think I'm going to wait til 11'.

 

[herod]

You have got to be joking.

look at my face

 

[camineet]

The PlayStation / Sony / CELL / Tech / PS4-hopeful fanboi in me wants to disregard the news / report & speculation of the pc.watch.impress article (and western sites that translate it or whatever) and hope for a PS4 with a next-gen CELL processor that is as powerful as what the highest hopes were for PS3 CELL in the days when many many CELLs or cores were expected to be in the box.

That's 64 SPEs, in the one i circled ^__^ That would provide at least 2 TFLOPs, thus about 10x what the current PS3 CELL does (just over 200 GFLOPs aka 0.2 TFLOPs).

Even the 32-SPE, 1 TFLOP CELL, expected by 2010 according to IBM's chief CELL architect,
Jim Kahle, would be nice.

 

[i hate bees]

Well the Cell architecture has been such a run away success this seems like a logical step.

 

[pirahna1]

you'll get new platform for the cost of new PC graphic card. For me there is no problem. Or maybe I'm crazy here.

600 != 250

Does not compute...

 

[Luckyman]

:lol

Reusing the Cell architechture in PS4 is logical. But how many SPEs will they put there.. what GPU will they use.

It would be nightmare for 3rd parties if there will be three very different consoles in power. Huge problem.

 

[TheHeretic]

600 != 250

Does not compute...

There are $600 graphics cards, though the PS4 won't be that expensive anyway. It says so right in the article.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

i dont think (hope?) that sony is going to use the ps brand , witch is known for state of the art tech, to become something gimped... or "lite" like.
sony as far i know never just did a little update - with there top of the line products they have always tryed to do the newest stuff
(look at TVs - DSLR - receivers etc all of these products are up there with the best you can buy (the top-series) )

(and to the guys hoping for every game to be 60fps+AA+1080p - keep on dreaming, on consoles there will always be devs who want the best gfx possible and thus go with -30fps no AA 720p )

 

[Kosma]

Don't worry gentleman, we will always have PC's to look forward too.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Losers will always follow the successful winners for a generation or two.

 

[Psychotext]

I wouldn't be too concerned about the PS4 just using the CELL again. IBM already has a version (PowerXCell 8i) that is considerably more powerful than the one which came with the PS3.

There will be even more powerful versions by 2011.

 

[Sin]

So, so, so wrong. Deadmeat's an idiot, there's no one on the internet that is on a larger crusade against Sony than him, its all FUD. :lol

 

[Psychotext]

So, so, so wrong. Deadmeat's an idiot, there's no one on the internet that is on a larger crusade against Sony than him, its all FUD. :lol

This is the source: http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2008/0929/kaigai469.htm

Don't even know where deadmeat comes into it other than the summary quote.

 

[FirewalkR]

Even if they went "cheap", whatever the iteration of the Cell architecture will be at the time, if they pair it with a GPU 'du jour' it will be way way way more powerful than the PS3 and not just 2x. In order for it to be 2x they'd really have to shoot for, say, a $200 release price point and use a current (as in 2008) GPU with 512MB, 512MB main mem., and a faster (transfer+seek) Blu-ray drive. Any 2011-level technology, hell just a 2011 GPU even if not top of the range would carry it well beyond 2X.

Still, damn this scares my inner graphics whore, I'd read the google engrish version last night and had just caught bits and pieces and when I read the gaf translation (at b3d no less lol) I almost screamed "nooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!". After reading through this thread seems like most of it is speculation based on Sony wanting to reduce costs.

I hope they go with at least mid-range tech at the time. I have such high expectations for the next-gen...

*ties the hype rope a bit tighter around the neck*

 

[Linkified]

Wouldn't it kind of depend upon how well sony does by the end of the fiscal year, to whether they even to need to launch it in 2011.

 

[gofreak]

I wouldn't be too concerned about the PS4 just using the CELL again. IBM already has a version (PowerXCell 8i) that is considerably more powerful than the one which came with the PS3.

That is 'Cell' also though. Cell is an architecture. The implementation might be different from PS3 and still be 'Cell'.

Hence the scope for terminology confusion.

 

[Revelations]

Wouldn't it kind of depend upon how well sony does by the end of the fiscal year, to whether they even to need to launch it in 2011.

The key here is to plan around the competition. Sort of predicting what MS and Nintendo would do. They don't want another repeat of this gen I would think. One would think they'd like to close that 1 year gap MS made in the market.

Either way...we're all screwed.

 

[neight]

Well at least this means bc with PS3 games is a given.

 

[Psychotext]

That is 'Cell' also though. Cell is an architecture. The implementation might be different from PS3 and still be 'Cell'.

Hence the scope for terminology confusion.

That was sorta my point.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Even if they went "cheap", whatever the iteration of the Cell architecture will be at the time, if they pair it with a GPU 'du jour' it will be way way way more powerful than the PS3 and not just 2x. In order for it to be 2x they'd really have to shoot for, say, a $200 release price point and use a current (as in 2008) GPU with 512MB, 512MB main mem., and a faster (transfer+seek) Blu-ray drive. Any 2011-level technology, hell just a 2011 GPU even if not top of the range would carry it well beyond 2X.

Still, damn this scares my inner graphics whore, I'd read the google engrish version last night and had just caught bits and pieces and when I read the gaf translation (at b3d no less lol) I almost screamed "nooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!". After reading through this thread seems like most of it is speculation based on Sony wanting to reduce costs.

I hope they go with at least mid-range tech at the time. I have such high expectations for the next-gen...

*ties the hype rope a bit tighter around the neck*

Why wait now when you can spend $3000 a year on a highend cutting edge PC.

 

[Trillian]

scary stuff if there's any truth to it, though -- if microsoft's thinking along the same lines, my days as a console gamer are numbered. it was a good run

Yup. Terrible news if true. Makes sense though from a business perspective.

 

[acm2000]

ps3 = bluray player that happens to play games

ps4 = folding@home client that happens to plays some games? :lol

 

[Kosma]

Argh nevermind.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Yup. Terrible news if true. Makes sense though from a business perspective.

well do you expect the casuals to buy 3 consoles?
the casuals will go with whatever system has the best marketing, it will be the same situation like it is now - (thats how the whole casual/mass market works-i think)

just that more of the core players will say "oh, fuck off now i want real games"

there is no need for 3 consoles made for casuals... like there is no need for 3 consoles for the hardcore - except that the hardcore are buying all 3

on the other side - ninendos moneyprinting seems very tempting for the other two i could imagine

 

[Nolan.]

It sounds about what I expected not much more powerful and wii like. Even with that i'm not sure I trust it. If it is true though it should have something more than that to make it seperate from the two because ms can blatantly go that route too.

 

[Elios83]

I think it was expected, they won't make a completely new architecture for PS4, they will use a Cell based CPU again. But that doesn't mean they will go the Wii route, IBM has already a 32SPEs (1 Teraflops) 32nm prototype chip which is 4+ times more powerful than the current Cell chip and a big advantage of that strategy is that developers won't have to learn everything from scratch and full PS3 BC will basically come for free.

 

[FirewalkR]

Why wait now when you can spend $3000 a year on a highend cutting edge PC.

Ooooh if only I had the money lol.

But anyway, thing is, you see more and more developers (even Crytek) giving up on producing tech for high-end PC hardware and shoot for the current-gen console architectures. The tech on games from 2011 to 2016 or so, whether console or pc, will probably be limited by whatever these companies decide to include in their next consoles. And if they shoot low (like Nintendo did this time), by 2012 or 2013 PC's or whatever we'll have as our main computing platform will probably be able to generate the same graphics as those consoles in a window while at the same time you (or someone else more likely) can watch a movie and munch through a few more Folding@Home work units. Wasted potential.

Edit: changed dates.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

I think it was expected, they won't make a completely new architecture for PS4, they will use a Cell based CPU again. But that doesn't mean they will go the Wii route, IBM has already a 32SPEs (1 Teraflops) 32nm prototype chip which is 4+ times more powerful than the current Cell chip and a big advantage of that strategy is that developers won't have to learn everything from scratch and full PS3 BC will basically come for free.

4+ is not that much in console world, no?

isnt the ps3 30 something times more powerfull than the ps2 ?
(well that was told from sony marketing - dont know if its true)

 

[the_id]

Just curious but what trends in the past generation would help console makers decide how to design their latest consoles?

 

[Tiduz]

if its like the wii... Do not want.

 

[Elios83]

4+ is not that much in console world, no?

isnt the ps3 30 something times more powerfull than the ps2 ?
(well that was told from sony marketing - dont know if its true)

It was just an example about something IBM has already announced in their Cell based CPUs line, I don't know if they will use that.
BTW I don't expect the same jump from PS1 to PS2 or PS2 to PS3. I don't expect a GC to Wii jump too but 30-35 times? No way, 10 times (just considering the CPU it would be a 2 Teraflops CPU) seems to be the best compromise if they want to have a cheap powerful machine, sell it near the break even point at launch and with special features to get casuals gamers.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

God, I hate the Wii. I mean why does everyone have to include waggle within their consoles, now? Why not just concentrate on a solid hardware and good games? F*** all those casual gamers playing Wii Fit. Nintendo single handedly killed gaming.
I want my the late 1990s back with a strong Sony and a Nintendo you could laugh at.

Spoiler

Yes, I know that Sony and Microsoft did many mistakes, too.

 

[Sol..]

:lol

Reusing the Cell architechture in PS4 is logical. But how many SPEs will they put there.. what GPU will they use.

It would be nightmare for 3rd parties if there will be three very different consoles in power. Huge problem.

If i were them...i'd go with the original keikaku

Two Cells in that bitch, or since it's PS4....4 cells in that bitch. A cell can do graphics card work no problem. Fuck a FPGA could do graphics card work. Just load cells in that mother fucker and don't stop. I bet they would come out with a serious graphical leap in a short amount of time too.