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[DarkMage619]

Yeah....until Aaron Greenberg backtracked on that saying it would be left up to each studio.



Why can't we just call out this bullshit equally instead of pretending it is one-sided?

@Gods&Monsters provided this above. Not sure what part is unclear. Jim Ryan said Sony would support PS4 for years after the launch of PS5. How you translate this into "NOT interested in cross generational support", I have no idea.

Sony's Jim Ryan: “We are going to launch PS5 this holiday and we're going to launch globally"

"A great deal has happened since we last spoke. Terrible things happening in the world, which puts everything that you …

www.gamesindustry.biz

I've been a critic of Jim Ryan myself, but there is a lot of sheer bullshit being passed around about what he has said.

And yes, Avowed is exactly like God of War. Why you think release dates change the fact that it and Everwild were coming to Xbox One and now they are not, again I have no idea.

Can't call it the same thing because it isn't. At least it wasn't presented as the same thing. Sony made a big deal about generational changes not MS. Avowed never had a release year even mentioned! Everwild isn't even a game yet! We don't even know if these games will be out next year. God of War was originally given a release year of 2021 and that was changed. This is NOTHING like Avowed or Everwild. Again MS said X1 support for a year or two when are Avowed and Everwild hitting again?

While I'm sure MS would appreciate you putting those titles on the same level as God of War and Grand Tourismo, they aren't and you know it. Sony will take their lumps for being deceptive just like MS did when they were up front about their cross generational plans. It's more than fair.

 

[SlimySnake]

Series x only? What a bunch os a-hole, they sell the series S telling people it's "next-gen" yet they don't even bother making their own games work with it?

this is two months before series s was even revealed

 

[Tschumi]

I think it's obvious that these cross gen decisions were made because early profit figuring done before COVID probably concluded that a lot more people would have Ps5s by now, and they're having to completely rejig their approach to compensate. Better gt7 be available on the hugely successful and widely available ps4 and pro than the storage rooms of ten thousand scalpers

Anyone saying this is some kind of deception seems to be forcing the issue a bit

 

[waxer]

Seems like normal practice to leave information out. All timed exclusives work like that. Eg the medium. If someone asked Ms if going to Sony they definitely wouldn't say. Same in this case. They keep it ambiguous. Partly online hardcore fans and "gaming journos" faults as they get all pissy if you change your mind about something.

In a no win situation where someone will always be pissed then I'd go with ambiguity as well and at least impress/trick avg Joe into potentially upgrading.

Companies have shitty marketing practices is normal nowadays.

Also most ignore the original quote...haha

 

[Methos#1975]

I think it's obvious that these cross gen decisions were made because early profit figuring done before COVID probably concluded that a lot more people would have Ps5s by now, and they're having to completely rejig their approach to compensate. Better gt7 be available on the hugely successful and widely available ps4 and pro than the storage rooms of ten thousand scalpers

Anyone saying this is some kind of deception seems to be forcing the issue a bit

I think these titles were always intended as cross gen, let's be serious, you just cannot shift directions deep in development like this.

 

[Topher]

Sony will take their lumps for being deceptive just like MS did when they were up front about their cross generational plans. It's more than fair.

I'm more than happy for both companies taking their lumps for not being clear in their messaging. Think I made that clear. Going to leave it at that.

 

[SlimySnake]

Well in some trailer it literally stated PS5 exclusive in the corner. Idk if it was that initial GT7 trailer tho or some later montage one.

It was a launch trailer with all their exclusives. They listed details under every single game featured down to how long the timed exclusivity period is for the third party games.

• Miles - Labeled as also coming to PS4.
• Horizon - Labeled as also coming to PS4.
• Death Loop - Also available on PC. Available on other consoles after 12 months.
• Project Athia/Forspoken - Also on PC. 24 month PS5 console exclusive.
• Demon Souls - Labeled as a PS5 exclusive.
• Ghostwire tokyo - Also on PC. 12 month console exclusive.
• Ratchet PS5 exclusive.
• Godfall - Also on PC. Available on other consoles 5/12/21. An exact 6 month exclusive deal.
• Sackboy - Also on PS4.
• Destruction All Stars - PS5 Exclusive

GT7 - Labeled as a PS5 exclusive. Just like Ratchet, Demon Souls and Destruction All stars.

Straight up lying. Indefensible.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Sony Dec 7, 2020 YT video. 20 - 26 second mark.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It was a launch trailer with all their exclusives. They listed details under every single game featured down to how long the timed exclusivity period is for the third party games.

• Miles - Labeled as also coming to PS4.
• Horizon - Labeled as also coming to PS4.
• Death Loop - Also available on PC. Available on other consoles after 12 months.
• Project Athia/Forspoken - Also on PC. 24 month PS5 console exclusive.
• Demon Souls - Labeled as a PS5 exclusive.
• Ghostwire tokyo - Also on PC. 12 month console exclusive.
• Ratchet PS5 exclusive.
• Godfall - Also on PC. Available on other consoles 5/12/21. An exact 6 month exclusive deal.
• Sackboy - Also on PS4.
• Destruction All Stars - PS5 Exclusive

GT7 - Labeled as a PS5 exclusive. Just like Ratchet, Demon Souls and Destruction All stars.

Straight up lying. Indefensible.

Beat me to it.

 

[Topher]

It was a launch trailer with all their exclusives. They listed details under every single game featured down to how long the timed exclusivity period is for the third party games.

• Miles - Labeled as also coming to PS4.
• Horizon - Labeled as also coming to PS4.
• Death Loop - Also available on PC. Available on other consoles after 12 months.
• Project Athia/Forspoken - Also on PC. 24 month PS5 console exclusive.
• Demon Souls - Labeled as a PS5 exclusive.
• Ghostwire tokyo - Also on PC. 12 month console exclusive.
• Ratchet PS5 exclusive.
• Godfall - Also on PC. Available on other consoles 5/12/21. An exact 6 month exclusive deal.
• Sackboy - Also on PS4.
• Destruction All Stars - PS5 Exclusive

GT7 - Labeled as a PS5 exclusive. Just like Ratchet, Demon Souls and Destruction All stars.

Straight up lying. Indefensible.

Ah.....there it is. I hadn't seen that before. Yeah, that's just some bullshit. Sad, Sony.

 

[CamHostage]

God of War was revealed as a PS5 game. It was changed to a PS4/PS5 game.
Avowed was revealed as an Xbox One/Xbox Series X game. It was changed to a Xbox Series X game.

You say Microsoft never said they would never put any Series only games? That's true. Sony never said they would never put out any cross gen games. So did either really lie at all? The crux of the "lie" is really the fact that the target platforms for the games above changed, not because either Microsoft or Sony made ironclad vows about what systems they would be on.

Yeah, I wish we could be critical of these circumstances without having to litigate who "lied" and fight over it. Circumstances of both console launches have been extremely difficult, and whether or not the companies always had cross-gen plans or not, the past year has been tumultuous. It's a year of water under the bridge, we can say our peace on the choices made and ask for answers to ramifications of these decisions without using each company's past comments as a cudgel to beat them to death.

(I personally believe that Sony was honestly planning on GT7 being PS5 only and made a late-in-development decision; and maybe GoW was or was not, maybe they didn't say it when they confirmed Spider-Man and Horizon because the project could have gone either way; then on the Xbox side, I'm sure the bosses were confident in the value of cross-gen and strength in harnessing the full scale of scalability in modern game engines, which they had to deal with anyway with PC versions always planned, but then behind the scenes the developers were probably questioning how they were going to get back down to X1S and were relieved when they showed some flexibility on the "first two years" cross-gen plan. Oddly, even now, now, despite MS being out front on the cross-gen announcement plan, the "Optimized for Xbox Series X/S" website has only one upcoming game by Xbox Studios as Dual Gen, which is Halo Infinite, so that side of the cross-gen decisions may still be in flux. I don't really have better evidence than what's out there, but a lot can change in a year of production, especially a year as complex as 2020.)

To be clear, though, God of War was revealed as "a game", with no further info besides the text "Ragnarok is coming" and a cypher logo (and then the date, which slipped.) That trailer was part of the "PlayStation 5 Showcase", so it was obviously a PS5 product, but there was nothing about it being exclusive.



On the Xbox side, the Xbox.com website was always super chaotic in that month of announcements, with Halo Infinite still listing "Xbox Project Scarlet" for weeks and lots of Xbox One listings at first (they were also odd to the press about MS Flight Sim having or not having an Xbox One version, but the current promo page says "Xbox Series X/S - Windows 10 PC" and nobody alive could fathom how that would be possible any other way...) In the announcements of both Avowed and Everwild, there is no mention of platforms in any of the trailers, even back to the EverWild X019 reveal where Everwild was revealed as new IP.




(I remember at the time watching all the Xbox Showcase titles and waiting for the end cards, I was a picky bastard and couldn't help but asking, "Okay, is this cross-gen, or will this come after the 2-years-mark? How about this one? Is there a difference yet between cross-gen and full-exclusive yet, or did the "scaling" thing work out?" So then, the ride on Xbox.com of the listings showing and then removing Xbox One badges was really crazy to go through...)

The new generation of platforms were obvious targets, but other than that, we jumped to conclusions through either the lie-of-omission or the contradictory messaging/info.

 

[Tmack]

Call out Sony for what?

Some people need to get a life. A game is product, and you might like it or not based on the actual product/experience offered.

If you change your perception based on backstage smalltalk and not by the product itself, the problem is on you. Sorry.

 

[Danjin44]

I honestly don't care one bit if games are "cross-gen" or not, I just want games to be good. As much as enjoyed God of War (2018) my biggest issues with that game was piss poor enemy and boss variety, which really has nothing to do with tech. If they can improve that then I'm happy.

 

[Zok310]

Yup, exactly why you don’t shill for corporations

 

[Ten_Fold]

100% agree. Would be dishonest to not do it because they did the same with Xbox about crossgen.


Now, I find strange that gaming media that bash Xbox for crossgen is in silent about Sony crossgen.
Crossgen games are not 100% dedicated softwares to that machine, so PS5 is not using his full potential. Every tech guy know this.

And one last thing, the level of fanboys defending this are impressive. Actually, defending Sony the 'right to make profit'... They're not so different from Nintendo fanboys.

Right Microsoft at least was upfront in letting us know it’s gonna take some time, and people got pissed especially when they heard Halo infinite was on Xbone as well. Now we don’t hear shit when Sony basically lied and the fans boys is like well, you can’t get a ps5 in store so that’s why and they trying to make sure everyone can play the new god of war smh.

 

[SlimySnake]

Call out Sony for what?

Some people need to get a life. A game is product, and you might like it or not based on the actual product/experience offered.

If you change your perception based on backstage smalltalk and not by the product itself, the problem is on you. Sorry.

A product handicapped by a 2011 GPU and a tablet CPU and 20 MBps SSD speeds is going to be an inferior product. We have been playing games long enough to know this by now.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Damn, you are really obsessed with my reactions, since you've posted comments about it several times now and in the past. Even called me filth once without having the balls to tag me because you don't think I should be allowed to like negative Sony posts.

Why don't you worry about you own reactions and your penchant to like negative Xbox posts and quit obsessing over mine little fangirl.

I love it when you talk dirty

BUT jokes aside...you are right in your post and I was just pulling your leg sorry man, lady, or whatever
But yeah hardly anyone can disagree Sony's message on cross-gen.

Don't forget to like my post please. Kthanx

 

[ManaByte]

It was a launch trailer with all their exclusives. They listed details under every single game featured down to how long the timed exclusivity period is for the third party games.

• Miles - Labeled as also coming to PS4.
• Horizon - Labeled as also coming to PS4.
• Death Loop - Also available on PC. Available on other consoles after 12 months.
• Project Athia/Forspoken - Also on PC. 24 month PS5 console exclusive.
• Demon Souls - Labeled as a PS5 exclusive.
• Ghostwire tokyo - Also on PC. 12 month console exclusive.
• Ratchet PS5 exclusive.
• Godfall - Also on PC. Available on other consoles 5/12/21. An exact 6 month exclusive deal.
• Sackboy - Also on PS4.
• Destruction All Stars - PS5 Exclusive

GT7 - Labeled as a PS5 exclusive. Just like Ratchet, Demon Souls and Destruction All stars.

Straight up lying. Indefensible.

Bait and switch.

 

[lh032]

A product handicapped by a 2011 GPU and a tablet CPU and 20 MBps SSD speeds is going to be an inferior product. We have been playing games long enough to know this by now.

We are just in the first year of "next" gen, chill.
This happens every single gen.

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

PS5 sold same amount as PS4 in launch year. So i don't buy that "PS5 shortage, we have to make cross gen titles"

Pepega its about the install base. These games began development long before the PS5 was out obviously they wouldn't know.

 

[hemo memo]

Sony Dec 7, 2020 YT video. 20 - 26 second mark.

Yeah it is ridiculous but as long as we have fans and journalists acting like free employees to the big 3, we will get nothing out of it. They’ll spin everything.

The above is straight up false advertising.

 

[Tomeru]

Your argument is that next gen consoles don't have the power to allow for new experiences, beyond graphics.

It's absurd.

Hardy my arguement, but good try. My point, which I think was pretty obvious, is that you have no idea what a "next gen" experience is yet.

 

[hemo memo]

Hardy my arguement, but good try. My point, which I think was pretty obvious, is that you have no idea what a "next gen" experience is yet.

We DO have an idea. Coming to you from the system architect mouth. From the company that believes in generations. Take a look:


You are welcome.

 

[SlimySnake]

is that you have no idea what a "next gen" experience is yet.

Right and whose fault is that? we are 6 months into the gen already.

Lets stop treating devs and publishers like they are struggling indie gamers. they are posting record profits and charging premium console prices, and a premium on every game sold on next gen consoles. It's ok to expect more.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Call out Sony for what?

Some people need to get a life. A game is product, and you might like it or not based on the actual product/experience offered.

If you change your perception based on backstage smalltalk and not by the product itself, the problem is on you. Sorry.

For real. So many drama queens getting mad because a video game company lied to them about a video game that wont be out for probably a year. If its that big of a deal sell your PS5. There are plenty of people out there who dont give a shit about lying sony out there and would be happy to take it off your hands.

 

[ZehDon]

We are just in the first year of "next" gen, chill.
This happens every single gen.

Not really - at least, this is a first for Sony. What Sony first party exclusives were cross gen for the PS1/PS2, PS2/PS3, and PS3/PS4? I can't think of one, personally, but happy to be wrong on that. And that's a good part of the reason for the push back here - this hasn't happened before.

Say what you will, but in my eyes, Microsoft was pretty up front that they're first party output would be cross generational for a few years. Honest, but let's be real: not necessarily the best marketing for a next-gen console.
Sony, on the other hands, outwardly mocked that approach, with Jim Ryan in particular going in with the "we believe in generations" line. Given Sony's track record of not having cross-gen games, why would anyone doubt them this generation? Seemed pretty clear: Xbox was going to be held back by their cross gen titles, like the disastrous Halo Infinite showing, while Sony was all in on their next-gen hardware and the PlayStation 5 would be the home of the real next-gen experiences. That's pretty great marketing to have. Now it turns out Sony's biggest titles are cross-gen, they just wanted to be vague about it for the cheap marketing.

 

[Riky]

Game came out in April 2020, Flight Sim came out Summer 2020 and it still isnt on Series Consoles

Demons Souls came out February 2009.

 

[hemo memo]

Right and whose fault is that? we are 6 months into the gen already.

Lets stop treating devs and publishers like they are struggling indie gamers. they are posting record profits and charging premium console prices, and a premium on every game sold on next gen consoles. It's ok to expect more.

Yeah and with Covid19 and digital sales, the industry as a whole got a massive boost. Yet here we are with some in the thread so delusional to defend a company for cross-gen releases instead of taking advantage of the new system just to get MORE profit.

For real. So many drama queens getting mad because a video game company lied to them about a video game that wont be out for probably a year. If its that big of a deal sell your PS5. There are plenty of people out there who dont give a shit about lying sony out there and would be happy to take it off your hands.

You and others seem to care enough to enter the thread and post tho.

 

[SafeOrAlone]

Hardy my arguement, but good try. My point, which I think was pretty obvious, is that you have no idea what a "next gen" experience is yet.

Then you’re simply downplaying the benefits. I don’t know why you need it “proven” to you that these consoles can do more, and better a.i, physics, level design is a huge deal.

And we do have an idea of what a next-gen experience is like. Just look at the portal-hopping gameplay of R&C. You don’t have that option with a cross-play game, sorry.

Second, did you hear Insomniac were saying that they can now have more enemy types on screen than ever, because the PS5 SSD allows for a larger amount of models to load in-game at once now.
Just a couple examples.


It’s not an opinion that cross-gen holds games back. It’s just fact. That’s why we have new console generations.

 

[SlimySnake]

You and others seem to care enough to enter the thread and post tho.

lol exactly. these people love to bitch about people bitching about stuff they care about. Arguably the most useless form of posting ever.

It's like if I went to the movies thread in the OT forum only to bitch about people caring enough about movies to critique them. Imagine if i went in there and said, "No one forced you to watch the movie asshole! "

Utterly useless.

 

[Team Andromeda]

It was cringeworthy watching poor John. I'm also amazed at how much bad luck he seems to get with his XBox: I have no issues with Dolby Atmos passing through my LG CX to my Denon Amp with no delay while enjoying 120 FPS

 

[kingpotato]

Demons Souls came out February 2009.

Flight Simulator came out November 1982

 

[Three]

Can't call it the same thing because it isn't. At least it wasn't presented as the same thing. Sony made a big deal about generational changes not MS. Avowed never had a release year even mentioned! Everwild isn't even a game yet! We don't even know if these games will be out next year. God of War was originally given a release year of 2021 and that was changed. This is NOTHING like Avowed or Everwild. Again MS said X1 support for a year or two when are Avowed and Everwild hitting again?

While I'm sure MS would appreciate you putting those titles on the same level as God of War and Grand Tourismo, they aren't and you know it. Sony will take their lumps for being deceptive just like MS did when they were up front about their cross generational plans. It's more than fair.

MS had xbox one under those announcements and they were later removed. It didn't give a release date either because they were years away but obviously they didn't want to admit that either. It's the same omission of an unconfirmed detail. We had people trying to draw parallels between Horizon Forbidden West and Fables development progress. As if HFW was somehow in the same position as Fable. That's why there were no confirmed release dates for xbox games and no confirmation for Ragnorok cross gen.

 

[Sinthor]

Well, I'm a new convert to NOT liking this cross-generational support. At first I felt it didn't really matter, and all these games are going to look better and play better on PS5 anyway, right? Then I REALLY thought about it.

First- Sony's messaging. Yes, to everyone saying "they've SAID they would support the PS4 still for years, so you should have expected this.." Yeah...bullshit. First of all, yes, Sony has often said they would continue to support the previous console. Did it for PS2...same for PS3. That NEVER has meant that first party titles were cross generational. NEVER HAPPENED. So no, this wasn't reasonable to expect. It is a complete departure from the way Sony operated in the past. Period.

Along with this argument people often quote the chip shortage or Covid or whatever as well. That too, is bullshit. They have already sold many more PS5's than they had sold PS4's at this point and Killzone Shadowfall and other PS4 exclusives never shipped on PS3. Yes, I get that the business strategy of keeping the sales base for your game higher by continuing to support the previous generation but the fact remains this is a departure for Sony and definitely not in line with past statements like 'we believe in generations' and talking about how people buy a new console for new features and things they can't experience on OLDER consoles. Those statements were completely accurate. This new bullshit is not.

So what this means for gamers is that these new 'exclusives' that now are not PS5 exclusives is that we will in fact have gimped versions of these games compared to what they would have been if they targeted the PS5 alone. It makes absolutely no logical sense to claim otherwise. The PS4 is damned NINE YEAR OLD TECHNOLOGY. Yes, the PS5 versions can have improved resolution, frame rate, ray tracing.... But you will never have the feature leap and evolution that we SHOULD see, until the PS4 is dropped as a target. The PS5 has a processor many multiples more powerful than the PS4 and twice the memory. The I/O is over FIFTY TIMES faster. Those are huge leaps. There are easily features and techniques that can be done on PS5 that would never work on PS4. Just look at Ratchet & Clank. The dimensional travel loading new levels in a snap would NEVER be possible on the PS4. Just won't happen. Fortunately, Insomniac doesn't have to worry about that. Seriously...tell yourself that R&C would be just fine on the PS4 at only 1080p and 30fps. Just not true. But now, we will have games like Horizon Forbidden West and the new God of War will be limited. The PS5 versions will just have ray tracing and probably higher resolution and frame rates. A good example is Spider Man. Definitely improved on PS5, but ran just fine on PS4 as well. Does anyone seriously believe that they couldn't have done more with SpiderMan if they hadn't had to ensure the same game ran on PS4? Of course not.

So, let's hope that Horizon and the new God of War are the LAST titles that will be cross-generational. Otherwise, the only real leaps and jumps we will see will be from 2nd and 3rd parties and those will be more limited likely since they also need to ensure compatibility across platforms. One of Sony's great strengths has always been the exclusives and how they truly showed the power and capabilities of the hardware in the consoles. Now, that may be a thing of the past and if so, I have to think that Sony is losing one of the biggest things that made them notable and successful. I mean...we don't even know of any games coming after Horizon and God of War. Maybe there's a slew of PS5 exclusives coming that will blow our socks off. But current indications are that...assuming there ARE a bunch of new games coming...that they will be more lame, but profit squeezing cross generational titles that really won't give much reason for someone to go out and get a PS5 versus sticking with the PS4 or PS4 Pro that they have right now. I think it's a bad move for Sony, although I see the obvious business sense of it.

 

[SafeOrAlone]

For real. So many drama queens getting mad because a video game company lied to them about a video game that wont be out for probably a year. If its that big of a deal sell your PS5. There are plenty of people out there who dont give a shit about lying sony out there and would be happy to take it off your hands.

To most people, this is going to come off as overly defensive. They’ll also wonder why it frustrates you so much that people are calling out Sony and wonder if you are a fanboy.

just saying that’s how it comes across. People have a valid complaint and you are telling them to stop whining.

 

[DarkMage619]

MS had xbox one under those announcements and they were later removed. It didn't give a release date either because they were years away but obviously they didn't want to admit that either. It's the same omission of an unconfirmed detail. We had people trying to draw parallels between Horizon Forbidden West and Fables development progress. As if HFW was somehow in the same position as Fable. That's why there were no confirmed release dates for xbox games and no confirmation for Ragnorok cross gen.

Did you think that any mention of X1 was removed because those games aren't coming out until 2023? Have you ever seen a release date for Avowed or Everwild? Could you tell us what type of game Everwild even is? I don't remember Fable getting a date either but maybe you know something I don't. MS removing X1 from games that never had a release date at all isn't anything like Sony talking about believing in generations and then pushing several high profile PS4 games. There is plenty to criticize MS for but being dishonest about their cross generational plans isn't one of them.

 

[SlimySnake]

Well, I'm a new convert to NOT liking this cross-generational support. At first I felt it didn't really matter, and all these games are going to look better and play better on PS5 anyway, right? Then I REALLY thought about it.

First- Sony's messaging. Yes, to everyone saying "they've SAID they would support the PS4 still for years, so you should have expected this.." Yeah...bullshit. First of all, yes, Sony has often said they would continue to support the previous console. Did it for PS2...same for PS3. That NEVER has meant that first party titles were cross generational. NEVER HAPPENED. So no, this wasn't reasonable to expect. It is a complete departure from the way Sony operated in the past. Period.

Along with this argument people often quote the chip shortage or Covid or whatever as well. That too, is bullshit. They have already sold many more PS5's than they had sold PS4's at this point and Killzone Shadowfall and other PS4 exclusives never shipped on PS3. Yes, I get that the business strategy of keeping the sales base for your game higher by continuing to support the previous generation but the fact remains this is a departure for Sony and definitely not in line with past statements like 'we believe in generations' and talking about how people buy a new console for new features and things they can't experience on OLDER consoles. Those statements were completely accurate. This new bullshit is not.

So what this means for gamers is that these new 'exclusives' that now are not PS5 exclusives is that we will in fact have gimped versions of these games compared to what they would have been if they targeted the PS5 alone. It makes absolutely no logical sense to claim otherwise. The PS4 is damned NINE YEAR OLD TECHNOLOGY. Yes, the PS5 versions can have improved resolution, frame rate, ray tracing.... But you will never have the feature leap and evolution that we SHOULD see, until the PS4 is dropped as a target. The PS5 has a processor many multiples more powerful than the PS4 and twice the memory. The I/O is over FIFTY TIMES faster. Those are huge leaps. There are easily features and techniques that can be done on PS5 that would never work on PS4. Just look at Ratchet & Clank. The dimensional travel loading new levels in a snap would NEVER be possible on the PS4. Just won't happen. Fortunately, Insomniac doesn't have to worry about that. Seriously...tell yourself that R&C would be just fine on the PS4 at only 1080p and 30fps. Just not true. But now, we will have games like Horizon Forbidden West and the new God of War will be limited. The PS5 versions will just have ray tracing and probably higher resolution and frame rates. A good example is Spider Man. Definitely improved on PS5, but ran just fine on PS4 as well. Does anyone seriously believe that they couldn't have done more with SpiderMan if they hadn't had to ensure the same game ran on PS4? Of course not.

So, let's hope that Horizon and the new God of War are the LAST titles that will be cross-generational. Otherwise, the only real leaps and jumps we will see will be from 2nd and 3rd parties and those will be more limited likely since they also need to ensure compatibility across platforms. One of Sony's great strengths has always been the exclusives and how they truly showed the power and capabilities of the hardware in the consoles. Now, that may be a thing of the past and if so, I have to think that Sony is losing one of the biggest things that made them notable and successful. I mean...we don't even know of any games coming after Horizon and God of War. Maybe there's a slew of PS5 exclusives coming that will blow our socks off. But current indications are that...assuming there ARE a bunch of new games coming...that they will be more lame, but profit squeezing cross generational titles that really won't give much reason for someone to go out and get a PS5 versus sticking with the PS4 or PS4 Pro that they have right now. I think it's a bad move for Sony, although I see the obvious business sense of it.

Fantastic post. Really goes to show how this has nothing to do with the pandemic, nothing to do with supporting last gen console userbase (Ironic coming from a company that literally just tried to kill the ps3 and vita generations.), and a huge departure from what this company used to be.

Third parties have always supported last gen consoles while first parties took up the mantle to give the early adopters a reason to upgrade. That's literally their only job. To show off the console they just made. It's shocking to see Sony act like a third party publisher.

The PS5 i/o is actually 100 times faster according to Cerny's road to ps5 talk. Ssd too. I have refrained from criticizing gamers for defending this, but surely anyone can see the potential of this console by now. It's a true leap in ways even the ps4 with its gddr5 ram wasn't. The cpu, the io and the ssd all combined to make it the most visionary console since the PS2.

And you don't know what's coming after horizon and gow because Sony hasn't announced anything yet. Their marketing has been atrocious and they seemed to be skipping this e3 and June altogether. They have zero concern that their competition is going to be holding conferences in less than a week. Surely they should at least announce something to say hey we got some games too. But no June conference announced so far and every passing day it just seems like they got nothing. Even if they do, it's shocking how they have felt zero need to announce it. This kind of complancency is extremely troubling. Like they dont need to counter MS or Nintendo or give their fanbase something new to look forward to.

 

[Three]

Did you think that any mention of X1 was removed because those games aren't coming out until 2023? Have you ever seen a release date for Avowed or Everwild? Could you tell us what type of game Everwild even is? I don't remember Fable getting a date either but maybe you know something I don't. MS removing X1 from games that never had a release date at all isn't anything like Sony talking about believing in generations and then pushing several high profile PS4 games. There is plenty to criticize MS for but being dishonest about their cross generational plans isn't one of them.

I frankly do not see anything wrong in the believing in generations quote. Did you ever see a confirmed platforms list for Ragnarok? No. Just as you didn't get confirmed release dates.

I only think the GT7 being PS5 exclusive was "a lie" or changed. FS2020, Avowed, and Everwild releasing on xbox one was also "a lie" or changed. The material released by Sony and MS were not accurate and were misleading in those cases.

I only mentioned that this ambiguity of not confirming something was to their own benefit in publishing no release dates and publishing no confirmed platforms list.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Avowed

avowed.obsidian.net

Microsoft lied the other way actually:

Did Microsoft Lie? - They Promised Two Years Of Backward Compatibility

A week after Phil Spencer's promise, Microsoft is already dancing back from the Xbox One.Scam Show: Microsoft Edition? theGeek.games

thegeek.games

Here’s what Phil Spencer said last week:

„You won’t be forced into the next generation. We want every Xbox player to play all the new games from Xbox Game Studios. That’s why Xbox Game Studios titles we release in the next couple of years—like Halo Infinite—will be available and play great on Xbox Series X and Xbox One. We won’t force you to upgrade to Xbox Series X at launch to play Xbox exclusives.”

Yesterday, however, at the Xbox Games Showcase, there were several first-party games, including Forza Motorsport, Fable, Avowed, As Dusk Falls from the otherwise independent team but current member of Xbox Game Studios, and both Everwild and State of Decay 3 where one may have noticed that they are coming specifically for Xbox Series X and PC – without Xbox One support and Smart Delivery. Again, these are titles released by Microsoft’s Xbox Game Studios, and almost all the developers who created them are in Microsoft’s pocket! So there is no objection: it seems like a conscious, superior instruction!

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Microsoft lied the other way actually:

Did Microsoft Lie? - They Promised Two Years Of Backward Compatibility

A week after Phil Spencer's promise, Microsoft is already dancing back from the Xbox One.Scam Show: Microsoft Edition? theGeek.games

thegeek.games

Here’s what Phil Spencer said last week:

„You won’t be forced into the next generation. We want every Xbox player to play all the new games from Xbox Game Studios. That’s why Xbox Game Studios titles we release in the next couple of years—like Halo Infinite—will be available and play great on Xbox Series X and Xbox One. We won’t force you to upgrade to Xbox Series X at launch to play Xbox exclusives.”

Yesterday, however, at the Xbox Games Showcase, there were several first-party games, including Forza Motorsport, Fable, Avowed, As Dusk Falls from the otherwise independent team but current member of Xbox Game Studios, and both Everwild and State of Decay 3 where one may have noticed that they are coming specifically for Xbox Series X and PC – without Xbox One support and Smart Delivery. Again, these are titles released by Microsoft’s Xbox Game Studios, and almost all the developers who created them are in Microsoft’s pocket! So there is no objection: it seems like a conscious, superior instruction!

Wtf I love companies lying to me now

 

[Tomeru]

Then you’re simply downplaying the benefits. I don’t know why you need it “proven” to you that these consoles can do more, and better a.i, physics, level design is a huge deal.

And we do have an idea of what a next-gen experience is like. Just look at the portal-hopping gameplay of R&C. You don’t have that option with a cross-play game, sorry.

Second, did you hear Insomniac were saying that they can now have more enemy types on screen than ever, because the PS5 SSD allows for a larger amount of models to load in-game at once now.
Just a couple examples.


It’s not an opinion that cross-gen holds games back. It’s just fact. That’s why we have new console generations.

Not all developers are equal. Insomnian having more enely types on screen is relevant ONLY to their game. You already have games with responsive vegetation, persistent debries, amazing animations in the distance (lol) and more (which are some of the issues people seem to have with HFW) - on last gen hardware. There are game with more enemy types and enemies on screen than r&c even now. My opinion is not that cross gen is holding things back (that a fact) - my opinion is that you the severity of lacking next gen features (if any) is per developer and developed game. Not every "next gen" thing is a fit with every new game. I don't know how HFW'll suffer from being developed also for ps4, or how GT7'll suffer or any game that comes next. It's games. You need a case like, I don't know, CP2077, to be able to make your case. But like was said already - everyone is posting record profits.

There is just no case to be made her yet, that's it.

edit:
And like it or not, covid changed things.

 

[Three]

Does anyone seriously believe that they couldn't have done more with SpiderMan if they hadn't had to ensure the same game ran on PS4? Of course not.

They definitely could have. I believe that a game created just for next gen makes a lot of things possible. I have been defending Ratchet and Clank as a bastion of this, a great example of this idea. It's bizarre that the people who I argued with are now very anti cross-gen who were extremely pro crossgen back then saying nothing is held back. They would call you a fanboy using Phil Spencers direct quote:

"Frankly, held back is a meme that gets created by people who are too caught up in device competition."

 

[Panajev2001a]

Not really - at least, this is a first for Sony. What Sony first party exclusives were cross gen for the PS1/PS2, PS2/PS3, and PS3/PS4? I can't think of one, personally, but happy to be wrong on that. And that's a good part of the reason for the push back here - this hasn't happened before.

It has, we have example of big first party games released (GoW2 on PS2, GT6 on PS3, …) after or slightly before the new console came out (like TLoU that required you to purchase the remaster on PS4 to play it). Those games did not take much advantage of the new console, slightly enhanced BC support being the only big update. Certainly they did not get new controller features patched into the games.

Digital Foundry criticize Sony's communciation about cross gen titles

Well they aren’t wrong. I bought a ps5 for demons souls and gran turismo 7. I’m disappointed gt7 is coming to PS4 as it should be a technical showpiece for ps5 n

www.neogaf.com

Jim Ryan in particular going in with the "we believe in generations" line. Given Sony's track record of not having cross-gen games, why would anyone doubt them this generation? Seemed pretty clear: Xbox was going to be held back by their cross gen titles, like the disastrous Halo Infinite showing, while Sony was all in on their next-gen hardware and the PlayStation 5 would be the home of the real next-gen experiences. That's pretty great marketing to have. Now it turns out Sony's biggest titles are cross-gen, they just wanted to be vague about it for the cheap marketing.

PS5 is home to exclusive next generation games already and in the cross generation ones there is plenty of use of its unique features: DualSense and SSD in MM, but you can compare it to DS4 and to the loading times on your PS4 Pro. Again, re-read the full quote by Ryan.
“"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features."

"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."”

GT7 is the big lie if you will, but if you want to wage a war over Polyphony lying now about the game being ported to PS4 or having always lied about the game ever being PS5 exclusive is another matter. If you want to talk about Journalists talking to Sony and talking about cross generation you can go back to Cerny’s interview with Wired: https://www.wired.com/story/exclusive-sony-next-gen-console/
“As in many other generational transitions, this will be a gentle one, with numerous new games being released for both PS4 and the next-gen console. (Where exactly Hideo Kojima’s forthcoming title Death Stranding fits in that process is still unconfirmed. When asked, a spokesperson in the room repeated that the game would be released for PS4, but Cerny’s smile and pregnant pause invites speculation that it will in fact be a two-platform release.)”

It was a launch trailer with all their exclusives. They listed details under every single game featured down to how long the timed exclusivity period is for the third party games.

• Miles - Labeled as also coming to PS4.
• Horizon - Labeled as also coming to PS4.
• Death Loop - Also available on PC. Available on other consoles after 12 months.
• Project Athia/Forspoken - Also on PC. 24 month PS5 console exclusive.
• Demon Souls - Labeled as a PS5 exclusive.
• Ghostwire tokyo - Also on PC. 12 month console exclusive.
• Ratchet PS5 exclusive.
• Godfall - Also on PC. Available on other consoles 5/12/21. An exact 6 month exclusive deal.
• Sackboy - Also on PS4.
• Destruction All Stars - PS5 Exclusive

GT7 - Labeled as a PS5 exclusive. Just like Ratchet, Demon Souls and Destruction All stars.

Straight up lying. Indefensible.

On GT7, one game, that the BS you are calling is that they are lying now by saying they changed mid development and post announcement to also support PS5. I keep saying this is not the first huge outrage that feels made seem bigger than it is (seeing people thumbing statements about games being held back by 2011 tablet CPU’s that went abs still go with the lines that ganes are easily scalable, just talk to MS, everything is designed to easily scale down, min specs do not matter is hilarious … it is fair game for them to mock Sony’s PR, but not to join the bandwagon of those upset about games being held back by older HW as they were defending this as a non issue just a minute before…).

 

[Shubh_C63]

"Frankly, held back is a meme that gets created by people who are too caught up in device competition."

I also do believe in this.
Have to imagine there is only few developers (probably under Sony wing) that can push the hardware to its limits effectively.
Most developers would take ease of game production compared to previous hardware to save their life and time rather than push out immediately in the first year.

 

[Three]

I also do believe in this.
Have to imagine there is only few developers (probably under Sony wing) that can push the hardware to its limits effectively.
Most developers would take ease of game production compared to previous hardware to save their life and time rather than push out immediately in the first year.

Most developers would rather create a game that scales even to mobiles.

 

[Shmunter]

Just watched. DF salty as anchovies.

Bad look for Sony. Bad for progress. Bad for gamers wanting finer things.

 

[Kagey K]

I think it's obvious that these cross gen decisions were made because early profit figuring done before COVID probably concluded that a lot more people would have Ps5s by now, and they're having to completely rejig their approach to compensate. Better gt7 be available on the hugely successful and widely available ps4 and pro than the storage rooms of ten thousand scalpers

Anyone saying this is some kind of deception seems to be forcing the issue a bit

Horizon Forbidden West PS4 was a major part of development, but PS5 will have "extra details"

Horizon Forbidden West devs recently revealed more about the development progress across console generations

www.gamesradar.com

What part of that made it seem like they changed on a dime cuz of Covid?

It was obviously always in the plan, they were just trying to find a way to sneak it in.

 

[Tschumi]

S

Horizon Forbidden West PS4 was a major part of development, but PS5 will have "extra details"

Horizon Forbidden West devs recently revealed more about the development progress across console generations

www.gamesradar.com

What part of that made it seem like they changed on a dime cuz of Covid?

It was obviously always in the plan, they were just trying to find a way to sneak it in.

Eh, i think you're being cynical

Who cares~

 

[ZehDon]

It has, we have example of big first party games released (GoW2 on PS2, GT6 on PS3, …) after or slightly before the new console came out (like TLoU that required you to purchase the remaster on PS4 to play it). Those games did not take much advantage of the new console, slightly enhanced BC support being the only big update. Certainly they did not get new controller features patched into the games.

Perhaps my post wasn't clear: the examples you've provided are not cross-gen games and don't compare to what we're seeing with the PS5 at all.
God of War 2 was not playable on PS2 and PS3. Only on PS2
Gran Turismo 6 was not playable on PS3 and PS4. Only on PS3.
The Last of Us was not playable on PS3 and PS4. Only on PS3. In fact, it received an entirely new PS4 release a year after it was released for the PS3 because the machines were simply not compatible.

Your examples are just last gen games released after the next-gen console came out or were known about. That's entirely different; they're still generational exclusives, built to take full advantage of their respective generational machines. None of them are games billed as next-gen titles, that were then limited by having to run on last-generation machines. As I said in my post, Sony hasn't done this before, which is why no one expected it, and this is why there is push back. Please, read my posts more carefully before replying.

The rest of your post ignores what I said and goes off on tangents, so I won't respond to that.

 

[Kagey K]

Eh, i think you're being cynical

Who cares~

You do, since you were defending them.

I'm just providing examples of how all the excuses are wrong.

Using thier own developers as proof.