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[fatmarco]

I don't know why people were surprised with GT though. It was pretty clear it was mostly GT Sport with ray tracing added on. Aside from that it was one of the least impressive showings we'd seen from PS5 exclusive games at the time, and even more so now with games like Horizon 2 etc.

 

[SlimySnake]

Sony doesn't give a flying fuck about some minor outrage on the internet dude.

It's the sad truth, and at least for me, the big damage is already done, they literally crossgendered my number 1 and 2 gotg from past gen, my 2 most hyped games.

But they do. They restored the Vita and PS3 store like I said. They took full advantage of the Xbox DRM fiasco and used it to destroy Xbox at E3 2013. Dont you remember #PS4NoDRM? It was literally started on this board.

Every company cares about PR. I am not saying damage isnt done. It is. Those decisions were made too long ago for any major changes. All I am saying is that internet outrage and media criticism is a good thing even if it doesnt result in change. These cunts cannot straight up lie to their consumers and be allowed to get away with it. This isnt just some $60 game like Cyberpunk we are talking about. People bought a half a grand console for these games because Sony said they were next gen.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

I think it's a fair criticism. Sony intentionally mislead customers because they saw the kind of backlash that Microsoft faced when discussing their plans to release their titles as cross-gen for at least two years after the launch of Series S and X.

This is a lot like the DRM reveal about the Xbox One. Microsoft wasn't the only company that planned on doing this; had the backlash not been so severe, Sony would have been right there with them in doing the "always on" approach, but MS was the first to talk about it, got completely destroyed, and Sony was able to reverse course as well without the folly of publicly stating they were onboard with such an anti-consumer practice.

The point is, I guess, is that I didn't care then, and I don't care now. I'd appreciate these companies being honest with all of us, but it is what it is.

 

[nightmare-slain]

You know you fucked up if DF criticises Sony. Well done Jim Ryan

 

[kingpotato]

Maybe that big Xbox acquisition rumor was actually digital foundry. When was the last time they criticized Microsoft?

 

[MikeM]

It unfortunately doesn't matter. Lets face it- they will still dominate the gaming landscape. I still find it shitty that GOW will be cross-gen. I would have loved to see what that game would have been like if it was PS5 only. I'm still buying it day 1 regardless lol (yes- I am part of the problem).

 

[SLB1904]

We believe in generations....

Yeah I think you guys need to come up with something new. The same inaccurate joke doesn't cut.

Ot: they deserve lying cunts.

 

[NickFire]

I agree with the criticism Sony is getting on this issue. But oddly, I do not recall many instances of gaming press criticizing cross gen all that much before Sony was caught up in it.

 

[Klik]

PS5 sold same amount as PS4 in launch year. So i don't buy that "PS5 shortage, we have to make cross gen titles"

 

[Hitchyhero]

XSS gets a lot of slate here but I'd rather the XSX be held back by a console with the same CPU / storage then one with super old CPU and HDD.

 

[hemo memo]

Sony PR has been a disgrace this generation.

Indeed. I mean even before the console reveal, Sony strategy was a very weird one. Maybe the strong sales is the fans jumping blindly like me because of how great the PS4 gen was but man they are really fucking up with Jimbo.

 

[NickFire]

XSS gets a lot of slate here but I'd rather the XSX be held back by a console with the same CPU / storage then one with super old CPU and HDD.

Well, in the case of XSX, it's gonna get held back by both. Literally.

 

[HawarMiran]

We believe in generations....

they do. They already have a few PS5 only titles. I wish HZFW and GoW were PS5 only, but let's be real. These two titles cost multiple 100 mio to produce and you would want them to be available to only 10 mio people, if you were the company that is paying for it?

 

[AJUMP23]

Yeah I think you guys need to come up with something new. The same inaccurate joke doesn't cut.

"We believe in Generations" is Jim Ryan's Ridge Racer or giant Crab. That quote will follow him around. for GENERATIONS ironically.

 

[Spidey Fan]

mean while in the thread.

 

[Lanrutcon]

They're right?

 

[quest]

they do. They already have a few PS5 only titles. I wish HZFW and GoW were PS5 only, but let's be real. These two titles cost multiple 100 mio to produce and you would want them to be available to only 10 mio people, if you were the company that is paying for it?

Sony did that every other generation. I have zero issue with it but be honest about it ffs. They hid ps4 versions for over a year. It is dishonest as hell.

 

[GymWolf]

But they do. They restored the Vita and PS3 store like I said. They took full advantage of the Xbox DRM fiasco and used it to destroy Xbox at E3 2013. Dont you remember #PS4NoDRM? It was literally started on this board.

Every company cares about PR. I am not saying damage isnt done. It is. Those decisions were made too long ago for any major changes. All I am saying is that internet outrage and media criticism is a good thing even if it doesnt result in change. These cunts cannot straight up lie to their consumers and be allowed to get away with it. This isnt just some $60 game like Cyberpunk we are talking about. People bought a half a grand console for these games because Sony said they were next gen.

I hope you are right, but i really don't see it.

 

[hemo memo]

Yeah I think you guys need to come up with something new. The same inaccurate joke doesn't cut.

Ot: they deserve lying cunts.

“As we’ve said many times, with PlayStation 5 it’s a brand new generation, and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience.”

It is very accurate.

 

[Sir Vilhelm]

At least Sony has been releasing games for the PS5. Where's the criticism for Microsoft not releasing anything at all for the Series X?

Whataboutism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Jigsaah]

Here's the thing, as console become more and more like PCs this is inevitable. Part of this means that you also inherit the traits of the pc market like backwards compatibility. think about how different PS3 was from PS2, or Xbox 360 was from Xbox One. now consider how much different Xbox One is from Xbox Series X...it's just more powerful, still on x86 architecture though.

This gen is not a paradigm shift from the previous generation. So it makes sense that crossgen would be more prevalent. They do this because they can. They would have last gen if it were possible.

 

[Hendrick's]

How is that a shitty practice? They are advertising the game in one of the playable modes. It's also not like they are doing "running a PC representing the console specs".

Because it encourages others the follow suit. If you are making a game and target a legitimate 60 fps, you have to contend with marketing against a game with 30 fps visuals. Morons just look at the pretty graphics and we all lose when these tactics win.

 

[SlimySnake]

100% agree. Would be dishonest to not do it because they did the same with Xbox about crossgen.


Now, I find strange that gaming media that bash Xbox for crossgen is in silent about Sony crossgen.
Crossgen games are not 100% dedicated softwares to that machine, so PS5 is not using his full potential. Every tech guy know this.

And one last thing, the level of fanboys defending this are impressive. Actually, defending Sony the 'right to make profit'... They're not so different from Nintendo fanboys.

Yeah, the media needs to make a bigger stink about this. Glad DF took MS to task last year, and remembered that when Sony ended up doing the same. If only other outlets would do the same. Several outlets interviewed the GG devs on Horizon, and very few cross gen questions were asked. Missed opportunity imo. Especially since that game was also announced as a PS5 game.

Fanboys will be fanboys. I just ignore them and move on. Not the least bit surprised Sony fans are doing the same thing the colteastwoods were doing last year. I caught a lot of flack for criticizing Sony's marketing and PR last year from Sony fans. It's been clear to me that they only care about Sony making profits instead of Sony making games we want to play. The best thing to do is to ignore the fanboys from all three companies and just focus your energy on media who have their own biases but at least they have the forum to call out these companies. Just remember that Nintendo was given a pass by the media and even though they are the most profitable company in the world, we cannot expect a true next gen console or any AAA games from them because they are held to a lower standard. If the media allows this then Sony will become the next Nintendo.

 

[scalman]

Sony just so sad about it

 

[Bonfires Down]

 

[Three]

Not the point. They presented GoW and GT7 explicitly as PS5 titles. They lied. Not sure why some Sony fans are defending them for this.

GoW no they didn't. GT7 they did.

Honestly Alex can fuck off too. I don't care if that comes across as rude.
Straight bullshit take from him. Made a shit load of exuses for Halo Infinite reveal. Didn't mention the absolutely terrible animations in it, started talking about the time of day and all of a sudden I need to be worried about animations in cross gen PS5 games? Especially after seeing the very nice animations in every game that is on PS4 looking good. What was wrong with the animations in Horizon Forbidden west?
What was wrong with animations on the first GOW even?

 

[Smoke6]

Not the point. They presented GoW and GT7 explicitly as PS5 titles. They lied. Not sure why some Sony fans are defending them for this.

Okay so say you’re the head of a corporation that said this with talks of chip shortages sustaining and going back to normal and boom!!! It doesn’t and it gets worse!

so now I’m your head to make money from lack of consoles being out in the wild you just released and games being made specifically for it, you now have a decision to make on this!

im quite sure you couldn’t finish the above and line of thought that goes into these decisions and no one should have to hold your hand and spell it out for you! It’s obvious as fuck as most these consoles sit in scalpers hands and I’m sure they want to SELLL copies of there games instead of RENT them out!

 

[Saber]

I agree with them, though it's strange that they made an entire video about a lot of things and yet the only thing this thread seems to focus is in the criticism part.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Because it encourages others the follow suit. If you are making a game and target a legitimate 60 fps, you have to contend with marketing against a game with 30 fps visuals. Morons just look at the pretty graphics and we all lose when these tactics win.

You know you can choose the pretty version of the game. Or play it at 60FPs.

Do you need a demonstration?

 

[SlimySnake]

Here's the thing, as console become more and more like PCs this is inevitable. Part of this means that you also inherit the traits of the pc market like backwards compatibility. think about how different PS3 was from PS2, or Xbox 360 was from Xbox One. now consider how much different Xbox One is from Xbox Series X...it's just more powerful, still on x86 architecture though.

This gen is not a paradigm shift from the previous generation. So it makes sense that crossgen would be more prevalent. They do this because they can. They would have last gen if it were possible.

Not buying this. We had almost 2 years of cross gen games from third parties last gen. it was definitely possible to port games from PS360 to PS4X1 right at launch and almost 2 years after launch.

Launch:
- CoD Ghosts
- AC Black Flags
- BF4

Year 1
- Watch Dogs
- Destiny
- Far Cry 4
- Thief

Year 2
- MGS5
- Rise of Tomb Raider

Third parties always chased the cross gen market, it was always the first party's job to offer reasons to upgrade. They have literally turned into Activision and EA.

 

[skit_data]

PS5 sold same amount as PS4 in launch year. So i don't buy that "PS5 shortage, we have to make cross gen titles"

That’s not the main problem with that argument. The main problem is the notion that big first party titles are made within a 6 month timespan and that a decision like these are made just prior to the release of the game.

Understanding that also explain why there are crossgen releases. One cannot simply tell the studios to throw out all the work they’ve done on their game that originally targeted PS4 and shifted to a PS4/PS5 release when PS5 hardware was finalized.

 

[PaintTinJr]

They said they understand the reasoning behind it, but dont like the sneaky way Sony went about revealing these ports.

Timestamped:

• John brings up fundamental changes in UI design that will not be seen because they need to be the same on the PS4.
• Richard brings up the driving physics that will get held back in GT7.
• Alex talks about animations and the fact that these games will be limited by 2012 tablet level CPUs.

Personally, I hope more people in the industry call out Sony for this. Internet outrage isnt enough. The execs have hidden behind the Sony's own Blogs instead of talking to the media. Since the media cant question execs, they need to continue to bring up not only how Sony hid this until now, but also question them on how this cross gen stance will hold back so many of these games.

It is a catch 22 that no one else in the industry has to worry about IMHO, because PlayStation is the only company that has successively sold - under TV - home consoles in successive generations with over 100m units sold, so any cliff edge for the previous gen releases potential damages the ecosystem far more for all gamers - more than the early adopters - so the problem only exists because PS1 was so successful before PS2, and PS4 is still being really successful before - a presumed - equally successful PS5.

If no games were showing next-gen functionality and/or exclusive for the transition then that would be pretty damaging too (IMO), but PS4 owners surely deserve a GT Driving simulator - rather than just an arcade racer? And anecdotally, seeing how my nephew and niece enjoyed playing Spiderman when visiting, and were hyped about taking away my old PS4 and some PS4 games, I think a lot of the first party exclusives from last-gen reached production levels that is going to give them a wow factor for longer with newer gamers - than generations before - so giving some of the IPs like Horizon and GoW that could realistically reach a much larger audience with a second innings on PS4 is probably the right balance for gaming. By February of next year I suspect the transition will be over for PS4 other for annual release games like Fifa and fighting games, so I'm ok with the strategy.

 

[Astral Dog]

The lie goes back to the first Cerny talk about the fast SSD and how that will change game design. before even revealing the games for the damn thing.

Honestly he was not wrong lol, super fast loading times for older titles/cross gen, new gimmicks for Ratchet. PS5 will have a bright future, but right now people playing on PC haven't adopted SSD in many cases

We haven't seen the full picture, Sony should reveal more current gen exclusives this year, GoW just won't be one of them

 

[SSfox]

For once i agree with DF.

 

[DarkMage619]

Well, in the case of XSX, it's gonna get held back by both. Literally.

And low end PCs.

 

[sainraja]

I think the reason Sony didn't announce or make it an event was due to how cross generation games have usually been handled in the past. Cross generation games have already existed, the only reason it has now become part of the 'console war' narrative or being discussed now more so than in the past is because Microsoft made it part of their marketing, because of how they handle games that work between all their systems (yes, they need a way to market it, I totally get it) but in the past this was never presented or taken as an issue and I don't think we had official announcements for games that were available on current and next gen, you basically were told about the upgrade path (if it is free or if it isn't free.) Hell, many of the PSN games I purchased on the PS3 were available to me on the PS4 without any extra cost (for free); there was never an announcement and I only discovered that by chance.

 

[Strider Highwind]

Not the point. They presented GoW and GT7 explicitly as PS5 titles. They lied. Not sure why some Sony fans are defending them for this.

Im not defending anyone and i'm pretty 'neutral' and game on each one of the platforms....but I personally always thought God of War was multiplatform(I could be wrong, but its what I always thought) , I dunno where I saw that at but I did. I was more shocked by Gran Turismo

But if they lied then they should be given grief about it, 100%

 

[hemo memo]

Honestly he was not wrong lol, super fast loading times for older titles/cross gen, new gimmicks for Ratchet. PS5 will have a bright future, but right now people playing on PC haven't adopted SSD in many cases

He was talking about how that will change game design with that Jak 2 map example yet here we are with the cross-gen releases.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

as df said, just disappointing

 

[StreetsofBeige]

That "We believe in generations" quote came right after the cross-gen Xbox news. Go figure who's the embarrassment here preaching SSD next-gen shit like simple ponies because of the PR.

Sony did the same thing when MS promoted One X at 6tf. Cerny chimed in later on saying 4k is impossible and you need 8tf, and PS4 Pro hits 8tf at fp 8 or fp 16.

PS5 comes out which is way more powerful than One X and some games still don't hit native 4k.

You always got to watch Sony and their PR.

 

[SLB1904]

"We believe in Generations" is Jim Ryan's Ridge Racer or giant Crab. That quote will follow him around. for GENERATIONS ironically.

Nah. Some of you are just trying to hard.

 

[Hendrick's]

You know you can choose the pretty version of the game. Or play it at 60FPs.

Do you need a demonstration?

No, I can't play games at 30 fps. Fans like you are making this problem worse. 30 fps is no longer acceptable.

 

[SLB1904]

“As we’ve said many times, with PlayStation 5 it’s a brand new generation, and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience.”

It is very accurate.

That's what I mean.

 

[Strider Highwind]

I agree with the criticism Sony is getting on this issue. But oddly, I do not recall many instances of gaming press criticizing cross gen all that much before Sony was caught up in it.

So you missed the collective outrage when Phil Spencer announced the Xbox angle would be for the Xbox One and One S to continue receiving cross gen titles? You missed a good bit of gaming coverage for the entire year of 2020 it seems lol

 

[assurdum]

DF criticize Sony

 

[SlimySnake]

Im not defending anyone and i'm pretty 'neutral' and game on each one of the platforms....but I personally always thought God of War was multiplatform, I dunno where I saw that at but I did. I was more shocked by Gran Turismo

But if they lied then they should be given grief about it, 100%

Jim Ryan announced Horizon and Miles being cross gen the same day he revealed GoW at their conference as a 2021 PS5 title. He couldve mentioned GoW being cross gen. He didnt. Knowing full well it was designed from the ground up as a PS4 title.

A couple of months later, at launch he was asked by Rueters if GoW was next gen only and he said I dont have anything to say about that today. He clearly misled the public who he knew were upgrading on the belief that not only GoW was a 2021 but also a PS5 exclusive. He knew that if he had mentioned GoW alongside Horizon and Miles back in september the outrage wouldve been even bigger, and he definitely knew that saying its cross gen at a launch interview would cost him sales.

It's super shady Bobby Kotick levels of dishonesty. Sony and every other company should strive to do better than Bobby fucking Kotick.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

PS5 sold same amount as PS4 in launch year. So i don't buy that "PS5 shortage, we have to make cross gen titles"

They are making cross-gen titles because there are 115+ million PS4 owners out there and PS4 and PS5 games scale much better between the two gens than any previous PS console, same with Xbox One and Series S|X. Xbox One sold 50+ million and the PS4 sold 115+ million. Not releasing cross-gen games to either of those consoles would be like throwing money down the toilet.

Not to mention with shortages going on right now, even though going cross-gen is a purely financial decision for both companies, it really is a solid pro-consumer move to the gamers out there who aren't going to early adopt, either by choice or due to the shortages going on.

 

[Jigsaah]

Not buying this. We had almost 2 years of cross gen games from third parties last gen. it was definitely possible to port games from PS360 to PS4X1 right at launch and almost 2 years after launch.

Launch:
- CoD Ghosts
- AC Black Flags
- BF4

Year 1
- Watch Dogs
- Destiny
- Far Cry 4
- Thief

Year 2
- MGS5
- Rise of Tomb Raider

Third parties always chased the cross gen market, it was always the first party's job to offer reasons to upgrade. They have literally turned into Activision and EA.

I mean but doesn't this support my point? Maybe I was mistaken about whether it was possible before or not, because it obviously was possible. So if this is the case, what's the problem now? People are up in arms about the fact that they are doing the same thing that they've always done.

It's really strange.

 

[Panajev2001a]

“As we’ve said many times, with PlayStation 5 it’s a brand new generation, and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience.”

It is very accurate.

No, it is not. It is just the same BS warriors are using to try to make a hybrid PS5 exclusives plus cross generation / old gen games approach to transitions (the way Sony has been handling generation transitions more or less the past 20 years) look worse than having 0 exclusives.

The full quote is:

"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features."

"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."

 

[Astral Dog]

He was talking about how that will change game design with that Jak 2 map example yet here we are with the cross-gen releases.

Cross gen was inevitable, last gen some releases were as well,makes sense this time there will be more with increased dev time/costs.you don't run a good business by only appealing to your day one gamers. They need to look out for everyone including companies who are preparing their tech/tools for PS5Series but still need to sell PS4 games

And PS5->PS6 transition gonna be the same Switch->Switch 2

friend just play Ratchet this week lol.