I hope you don't get banned, but this will be hilarious.
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DmC Devil May Cry Ships 1 Million Copies; Forecast Lowered To 1.2 Million
- Thread starter BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
- Start date
I hope you don't get banned, but this will be hilarious.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
I've done that too much already. It's a matter of searching my post history.
The game is plenty easy and cinematic enough.
Meccanical
Member
DmC is pretty fucking cinematic bro, I don't know how you can argue that it's not.
I'm still confused as to what exactly NT added that brought the game into the 21st century.
Story: even if you liked it, it still uses a ton of material from DMC.
Combat: it's worse.
Exploration : it has pretty sky boxes, shallow platforming and less back tracking then DMC4.
There is nothing here that is unique about DmC that justifies the claims of modernizing it, it's just the same shit (with added level transformation) with a twist that you may or may not jive with.
Beat me to it. Honestly, it's ridiculous. Try blaming the consumers that this game was supposed to appeal to.
Glass Rebel
Member
I wasn't talking about BP, although the DmC version looks comparably lame. Let's say the basic combat-engine in both games is about on the same level (just for the sake of argument), and just focusing on the negatives in DmC's enemies, gameplay and level-design outweigh DMC4's negatives for me:
- Outside of the Dreamrunners and the Drek, the enemies aren't really that fun to fight and even the Drek isn't as good as Blitz, which feels almost like a boss-fight in itself. Enemies felt like a huge step-back and even more so did the bosses. Add colour-coded bosses into the mis and you have a recipe for disaster. They aren't even all that challenging but it's annoying how the game doesn't let you play the way you want.
- The platforming in DmC is very, very shallow. It feels good but they don't do anything interesting with it and it's basically a means to show you the beautiful environments and give you a break between fights. You're just alternating between whips and dashes with very forgiving timing and huge platforms. Admittedly, there are some sections where you can branch off in different paths but most of the time it's the very definition of fluff and padding. DMC4 had its own tedious bullshit (like the puzzles in Fortuna Caslte or the dice game) but it still mixed it up by throwing enemies at you. Platforming in DmC is just boring.
- The game constantly interrupts you with fixed animations, scripted sequences and cutscenes that aren't instantly skippable or not skippable at all. It has made replaying DmC even more of a drag than anything in DMC4. To this day I can't say I share the sentiment that the backtracking in DMC4 was as bad as some claim. It was lazy, no doubt, but those missions with Dante are pretty short.
Modernized = Made easier, added more set pieces.
They curse now. Makes the characters feel... what the fuck was it? More realistic and adult or something.
If that is the case casuals should be running to DmC like they do to God of War games. It is cinematic the way past DMC games are but still hasn't reached that movie quality feel that average folks love. And as far as accessibility I found DMC4 easier to get into than DmC.
The problem is that the aesthetic is too out there for the average joe and the cinematic production values aren't up to snuff with a GoW/Uncharted game. The combat is also still too much like a DMC game and in today's age people want that instant gratification press single button to do fancy shit (Batman games for example).
Right so the game doesn't really appeal to average gamers or core gamers. And Batman games are amazing! They're much more than just press button to win, seriously one of the most engrossing games this gen, shit does justice to the lore and characters.
They have ugly demon women getting boned doggy style over desks by sweaty bald men!
Why going to another studio when the final product ended similar to DMC?, not in the "style" of the action only but even the story which is funny enough just re-written DMC3.
weird thing is,the original vision of DmC seems to be changed too,smoker silent ugly Dante is no more, using the sword to pull cars and hit the enemies with it gone..maybe tons of other thing got changed too,in the end, DmC was not something new,was not something faithful to the original,was not on par with DMC1/3/4 and was no change to the series, the story copied many elements old DMC universe, it was really pointless project and not needed.
keltickennedy
Member
Hardcore fans spoke with their wallets. Capcom should take note.
theangrypirate
Member
They added dubstep yo. Dubstep!!!!! How much more modern can you get?
Seriously though, I really do like this game, and the music.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Yeah, I called this shit back when DmC was first announced and the backlash begun. DMC fans are going to get the blame for no one buying a game no one fucking asked for. It's all on us. This shit was so inevitable.
I also think the DMC franchise is done (or at the very least will be put on hold for a while). I have no hope for a DMC5 at all. DmC2 is much more likely imo. But neither one will happen.
I just pray I'm wrong and Capcom pulls another DMC3 and throws the kitchen sink at the real fans and not this mythical make-believe audience they're so sure exists. Capcom: "FREE CANDY AND BLOW JOBS FOR EVERYONE! Are we cool again???"
This is Capcpom, they'll misconstrue this whole debacle as no more demand for DMC, and put it away for a real long time.
Normally, I'd agree. But at this point in time, Capcom's running out of fodder that they can just afford to cast off from the top of their pantheon in Mount Olympus.
Does Capcom really just want to be a one trick pony relying on the likes of RE and Monster Hunter for the rest of their lives? If not, then they should think twice about retiring an established and adored brand, just because it didn't reach what expectations they may have had.
But hey, if I'm wrong, and Capcom is just fine following Konami in being known as "That Company that Produces that One Game series", then that's on them.
You assume Capcpom is smart. I guess they once were. Now they just have a westaboo boner and a slash-and-burn tactic for getting money.
I can't really tell, I haven't paid too much attention, but I feel like even the marketing swung back around to appease fans and put out the fires the initial reveal started. The marketing lingo became more about the ways in which "it's still DMC!" than the way it wasn't - rarely mentioning the ways in which the reboot was actually justified.
Elaborate combo videos were fired off to show that Unreal Engine @ 30fps is *basically as good* at delivering a familiar DMC experience, like they were selling energy efficient light bulbs going "they're almost just as bright!". Aside from the initial reveal of Drugface McFuckedup putting out a cigarette in the face of a demon puppet, I don't think marketing did a lot to entice the supposed new audience.
SSX feels like an example by which many reboots are now measured - a game which seemed to do a very clear 180 (no pun) and ended up halfway between what a potential new audience and the old audience wanted. I don't know exactly how true that is for DmC, how much the plan changed - but in the end the vibe I get off it is the same, and the reception feels about as lukewarm as I expected.
Thank you!
And yeah, gameplay in the latter case is purely about letting the game interpret your intent.
I actually had a startling revelation when I was about... I dunno.. 16 or so perhaps. My dad used to pop his head into my room now and then when I had friends over, playing video games. We played a lot of fighting games at the time, and really had been since Street Fighter 2 on the SNES. This particular time it was Virtua Fighter, Soul Calibur, and maybe one or two ironic bouts of Mortal Kombat Gold. One time he finally commented "I don't know why you keep playing these fighting games. Don't you ever get bored? All you ever do is fight, fight, fight."
Now, my dad was no video game wiz, so I wouldn't have expected him to offer keen insight into the inner workings of a video game. However, I realised then, that to him, all fighting games were the same because they were about the same surface context. In his mind, the appeal of all those games had to be the sense of conflict and the actual fighting. I won't lie - when I first started playing Street Fighter 2, there was definitely an inherent excitement to the kicking and punching, but somewhere along the line it became less about fists meeting faces, and more about quarter circles forward and HP.
The difference between the methodic dpad tapping, buffering and lingering button presses of a Mortal Kombat, and the fluid quarter circles, half circles and 360s of a Street Fighter gave those games a very different appeal to me, whereas to my dad they were all "about fighting".
Fast forwarding to a few years ago I was at the cinema with my brother, one of perpetual playing-NHL-games-and-nothing-else, and we caught a trailer for Uncharted 3 before the movie. It was basically an edit of cutscenes, painting the setup for the story and some quick shots of things falling down and exploding. You know - Uncharted. He turned to me and said it looked great and that he wanted to play it. I knew for a fact that he'd basically never played anything approaching a third person shooter, so out of curiosity I asked "how come?". "It's like Indiana Jones" he replied.
He's wasn't wrong. Same as my dad wasn't wrong about Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Virtua Fighter being "about fighting". Granted, Uncharted is much more "like Indiana Jones" than VF is "about fighting" by virtue of actually trying to be cinematic and evocative of pulp adventure movies, but the point remains largely intact.
My brother had absolutely zero interest in the complexities of what happens in your head and in your hands before it gets turned - like alchemy - into Indiana Jones on screen. He wanted Uncharted because he was promised he'd get to be Indiana Jones.
My dad could never glean from my TV displaying Mortal Kombat what was actually stimulating about playing it, nor would he from a trailer. Nintendo were right when they said you have to play their games yourself - that you can't just show people and expect them to get it - but peel the marketing layer away and they were talking about systems driven games in general. Of course, when the context of your game is fat moustache man hopping on turtle, you may be in more dire need than most.
EDIT: Oh, hey, I'm not "Junior Member" any more! I'm ordering a celebratory pizza.
I don't think this has anything to do with being smart any longer. The Tsujimoto family HAS to be aware of the increasing disconnect between them, Capcom's development staff and their franchises' audiences. If nothing else, self-preservation should be kicking in about now, or else their company is just going to lose even more money as costs rises with this new generation of gaming.
Maybe, or maybe not. I can't tell but I will still put my money on Capcom being dumb and crashing. People do strange things when everything falls apart around them, ala 38 Studios. Though Capcom hasn't quite reached that stage yet that is where they're trending towards. It's a shame if they do but they lost a lot of talent (Mikami, Kamiya, reticently Inafune and the people).
Funchameleon
Banned
could it be that because every single time dmc has been mentioned on the internet a bunch of dorks with vested interest in seeing it fail called it all sorts of hyperbolic bullshit it might just have impacted sales? *vibrates out of chair*
Pai Pai Master
Banned
A good post to get your upgrade on. I agree entirely.
What I don't get is why Capcom thought they'd suddenly appeal to this magical mainstream audience that secretly loves niche character action games. If they had a real plan in place other than "Western DMC" they would have designed a game more like God of War than Devil May Cry. Every "mainstream" game player I know that loves God of War love it because of Kratos, great graphics and killing big Greek mythological creatures and Gods. It's never "the combat is really deep and stimulating" or "it has the feel of 60fps."
If Capcom wanted a mainstream audience for DmC then they should have made a mainstream game...instead they pushed aside fans of the series and just recreated what they already had, in a lesser form, and did little to appeal to anyone who doesn't give a shit about how the game plays. For the mainstream audience, the overall experience is the draw. They made the wrong game for the audience they were targeting, and it's really that simple but they didn't get it.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Someone linked a similar article just the other day where some other bitter journalist was blaming the masses for allowing such an interesting game as Enslaved to bomb at retail lol
NT is like the Lara Croft of video game developers. They just make you want to protect them I guess.
lmao
GAF has little impact on sales.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
Yep,it reminds me of a scene from The Wire:
"You know the difference between DMC and DmC? DMC bleeds red and DmC bleeds green. I look at you these days, Dante, you know what I see? I see a game without a country. Not hardcore enough for this right here and maybe, just maybe, not cool enough for them out there.
Messofanego
Banned
I must be like your dad, because I don't see much of a difference between Virtua Figher or Tekken other than having different characters. Maybe Tekken has more juggling. Without playing the games, the complex differences aren't as obvious. My cousin is super into Virtua Fighter and talks about frame counting, I see those clips of fighting game pro and people shouting and I don't get it.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I genuinely don't understand complaints about DMC4's level design that also forgive DmC's.
They're both bad in different ways, yes, but they're also both bad.
They're both bad in different ways, yes, but they're also both bad.
How much damage?
True but DMC4 levels just look better to me visually. Too damn garish in DmC.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Some dudes really love floating blocks
badcrumble
Member
It definitely couldn't have anything to do with the game itself or how it was marketed. Yes, it must be the fault of literally every single other thing in the world.
Glass Rebel
Member
If anything I've learnt that some people want their levels to be with as little resistance and as pretty as possible.
Facism
Member
LOOOL. All NT injected into DmC is a weaker combat system and automatic platforming. The story is still shit, albiet now it's got that injection of social commentary squeezed right out of some teenage 9/11 conspiracy theorist's youtube channel.
DmC is still 'corrider > fightbox >corridor > fightbox >corrider, littered with annoying cutscenes. It's literally the same fucking formula as every other DMC game, but some MANDATORY features such as hard lock on taken out.
do these PR simps even fucking play the games they talk about or do they just like to think they know what they're talking about?
Agreed. I think people who genuinely feel DmC modernized the franchise only say so to save face. Some people just don't want to admit they're wrong. If DMC is dated than DmC is every bit as dated if not more so.
We're all guilty of doing what my dad did, to an extent. Two of the same game, dressed up differently, will have many people swearing by one and dismissing the other. A friend of mine rejected Bayonetta and embraced Vanquish because - in his words - he's "more of a robot guy than a witch guy". Switch presentation around, and he'd be into a fundamentally different game.
Mortal Kombat - or any fighting game, when you think of it in a certain way, is Pong. The tug of war of it is abstracted in a fighting game, and is a push and pull between life bars rather than a visual representation of a ball going back and forth, but the end result is you're still exchanging immediate offence and defence. Dress paddles up as dudes, bouncing ball as life bar, ball hitting your paddle as "blocking" and the trajectory from your paddle as an attack, and it's a "fighting game".
Extrapolate from "catching the ball" and create permutations of catching it from different angles to create counters and high, mid, and low blocks. Extrapolate from sending it towards your opponent and create permutations of "moves" and "attacks" to catch your opponent off guard.
Ultimately you've basically only dressed your paddles up as ninjas.
In reality, when you play tennis (or when you are fighting, for that matter), there are oodles of variables that have everything to do with the real world physicality of it. In translating tennis to Pong, all those variables were stripped away and abstracted. It may still be identifiable as a representation of "tennis", but when you actually compare the two, there really only is the vaguest link.
The underlying video game that is happening in a football/soccer game is virtually identical to something like Speedball - aside from the rule set. Your on screen avatar is drawn as throwing the ball in one game, and kicking it in the other. For you as the player, however, you're just pressing a button in either case.
Feedback is a thing, of course. Visuals and sound do dictate how something in a game "feels". Interaction design is hugely important and I don't want to diminish that importance, but gamers are often tricked into thinking there's a bigger difference between *games* than there is, and vice versa, based purely on what appears to be going on.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I guess to most people, modern day linear corridor progression > backtracking in any form.
which is a fair perspective to hold really.
I just think it's weird when people confuse good set piece design with good level design.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
I just don't understand why Capcom thought that OG Dante didn't appeal to western audiences?
he's not edgy enough
And they also got pregnant woman shot through the stomach and then through the head.
If that doesn't scream modern to you, I don't know what does.
Then the DMC community shouldn't have tried to make a huge deal out of the hair in the first place
Obviously everyone's going point to their opponent's weakest perceived link to try to discredit the whole. Don't like Tameem? NINJA THEORY WORST DEV EVER AND SHOULD ALL BE FIRED!
He wears a bra.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
What? Ugh. Now I'm even more glad I didn't buy it.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
I also think that that's a weird sentiment to hold, but it's not hard to imagine why they thought that because there are a decent amount of people on GAF who think old Dante was weird.