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Fate/Zero TV |OT| Now 100% mollusk free!

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Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Fate/Zero 18

Excellent start! Cant wait to see what happens next week.

I was actually falling asleep, then that chicken massacre made me jump haha.
 
Didn't expect this at all. First time watching it, was a shock for me at the end. If I didn't know anything about Tsukihime, this would kinda fly over my head.
 
Your favorite executor is a baker at this point in time.

As for this episode, sogood.gif. I'll write about it after I watch it like ten more times.
Snap! You're right, I keep forgetting the time this series takes place and that this ep. happened even waaay back. >_<;;


Another thing I noticed about Shirley,
after biting the chickens she still managed to retain some of her human side and fight off her impulses just for a little bit unlike the rest of the villagers which instantly became ghouls.

edit: Isn't it sad? Shirley? =(
 

Jex

Member
Another thing I liked about ep18 is that
they didn't use the same ending animation. They realized that it was a different song, and that was a choice to close the episode on a different tone compared to a normal episode, so they left the credits on a black screen. Good choice.

Yeah,
that was a great choice. It would have been completely wrong to put the usual ED there and it's something a lesser show would have done without thinking.
 

/XX/

Member
Speaking of OP's, I think it's interesting that
episode 18 doesn't use one. I think this is the right decision - an OP sets a certain tone and mood for what's going to follow and it would have been completely out of place here. It also sets the whole episode apart as it's own distinct event.
Do you find the melancholic opening that much tonally different than this backstory's explanation? I certainly find it apt as it speaks of the motivation and conviction of a character like Kiritsugu to continue this bitter task thanks to the support of those people important for him that he meet along the road, and granted him their support. It even includes visual references to this latest episode story. I mean, after the jarring opening introduction at the end of the first episode in the previous part of the series, I can't imagine this being too incompatible.

What I think they tried to do is set apart, as an aside, this story to differentiate it clearly from the tribulations of the Holy Grail War, like they wanted to show a totally new perspective from the series, commencing from the presentation.

It would be Irisviel or Maiya in that case, I can't imagine Kiritsugu telling Saber about his past.
Yeah, that is true. Maybe Saber and Kiritsugu are too detached for that.
 
Another thing I noticed about Shirley,
after biting the chickens she still managed to retain some of her human side and fight off her impulses just for a little bit unlike the rest of the villagers which instantly became ghouls.

edit: Isn't it sad? Shirley? =(
I'd guess that the potion turned Shirley into a dead apostle while the villagers she bit just became the dead and were mindless.

Speaking of Maiya... I wonder if the next episode will show us how they met.
This is definitely a relationship that could use developing. We don't really know much of anything about Maiya.
 
Episode 18

Terrific episode. The very first minute pretty much sums up Kiritsugu in a nutshell, and that's before you get to actually know the details about him. Great way to start a Kiritsugu-centric story arc.

Other people in this thread have covered most of the aspects about this episode, but I want to talk about one thing:
The discussion about Kiritsugu and Shirley about what would want to be when he grows up. At this point, the audience knows more about his life as an adult, and we know that he becomes what he wished for in his childhood: to be a hero of justice. Yet, when Shirley tells him that his father's research has the power to change the world, Kiritsugu can not actually say what he wants to become. His wish then is not the same thing that his father wishes for, but he can't manage to say that out loud. So when Shirley tells Kiritsugu that she'll watch over him until he grows up, she says that with the wrong impression that his desire is to continue his father's work and then goes off to prove that the Emiya's research can help people. This is probably the point where Kiritsugu's life might have changed for the better if he simply had the courage to say what he wanted to say, since Shirley then might have not been too eager to show off the magecraft's accomplishments. In constrast, adult age Kiritsugu makes no attempt at hiding what he wants to accomplish in the Holy Grail War, which definitely would have the effect of changing the world.

You probably know the answer to this and you will laugh at me if I'm wrong, but now that you mention it and after what happened with that island, I'd be surprised if Kiritsugu's special interest, or even obsession, on Kotomine wasn't motivated first and foremost (obviating his disconcerting ways as a Master) by this later one status as Church Executioner. Given that the Mages Association contracted his mentor Kaminski, I have the impression that maybe he continued crossing paths with these mysterious people later on as a mercenary.

Man, I'm curious to see what you know, but I don't want spoilers either... argh!

Now even more expectations incoming, because the next episode could be the real key point to see Kiritsugu's motivations beyond the Holy Grail War.

The first episode pretty much gives you a concise answer on why Kiritsugu is afraid of Kotomine. The things that the show reveals about Kotomine helps the audience understand that answer, but I'm not sure if there's anything in particular that affects Kiritsugu's view of Kotomine thus far.
 

duckroll

Member
Episode 18

Terrific episode. The very first minute pretty much sums up Kiritsugu in a nutshell, and that's before you get to actually know the details about him. Great way to start a Kiritsugu-centric story arc.

Other people in this thread have covered most of the aspects about this episode, but I want to talk about one thing:
The discussion about Kiritsugu and Shirley about what would want to be when he grows up. At this point, the audience knows more about his life as an adult, and we know that he becomes what he wished for in his childhood: to be a hero of justice. Yet, when Shirley tells him that his father's research has the power to change the world, Kiritsugu can not actually say what he wants to become. His wish then is not the same thing that his father wishes for, but he can't manage to say that out loud. So when Shirley tells Kiritsugu that she'll watch over him until he grows up, she says that with the wrong impression that his desire is to continue his father's work and then goes off to prove that the Emiya's research can help people. This is probably the point where Kiritsugu's life might have changed for the better if he simply had the courage to say what he wanted to say, since Shirley then might have not been too eager to show off the magecraft's accomplishments. In constrast, adult age Kiritsugu makes no attempt at hiding what he wants to accomplish in the Holy Grail War, which definitely would have the effect of changing the world.

That's an interesting point. To add to that,
I think that the scene with Shirley was directed in a way where it is EXTREMELY deceptive to the audience, for a stronger effect. When Shirley is talking to Kiritsugu about the power to change the world, and how she believes in him, based on what the audience knows from the rest of the series, it is assumed that because her words mirror his current goal so much, his father's research might actually be related to helping people or doing good. Instead the tragic twist is that his father had no intentions to help anyone, and his research was taboo experiments meant simply to extend his own lifespan.

In that sense, Shirley was wrong about the research and she paid for it with her life, but her words to Kiritsugu do seem to have a profound influence on him, since even today he is seeking for a true way to change the world for the better. It'll be interesting to see next week what other influences Kiritsugu had as he grew into the man he is today.

The character development in this series is SO GOOD. Arghhhh.
 
The character development in this series is SO GOOD. Arghhhh.

Yours is a rare opinion, since a good part of the opinions I've found in the internet have found Kiritsugu too unsympathetic to care about his character development. I suppose that's to be expected since
ufotable is only really exploring Kiritsugu's emotional side 18 episodes in the series, and that's after what happened a few episodes before with the Lancer team.
I just find it interesting that ufotable did decide to do that, since that's a distinct change from how the novelization handled Kiritsugu's characterization, where the narration described it quite thoroughly throughout the story.

EDIT: <rant> On a side note, I find that I can't really discuss the changes between the anime and the novels in detail in other places where people do have knowledge of both, since most of the conversation is dictated over what changed between the two instead of why it was changed, which makes me a sad panda. That kind of talk just seems really shallow to me, and doesn't contribute to a good exchange of opinions and ideas. Unfortunately, I can't really go into much detail here either, since there really isn't much that I can talk about unless you know the story as a whole. I'll just have to live with it, I guess. </rant>
 
Yours is a rare opinion, since a good part of the opinions I've found in the internet have found Kiritsugu too unsympathetic to care about his character development.
How the hell does that work? Unless its more like that guy in the animegaf topic who likes FSN more than FZ.
 

duckroll

Member
I don't really sympathize with Kiritsugu. But I understand him. I don't agree, but his path is an interesting one and his backstory is very well directed so far. I don't think Kiritsugu is looking for sympathy either. His conviction prevents him from seeking emotional support. He only needs allies to understand and support his decisions, even if they might not always agree with the methods.
 
How the hell does that work? Unless its more like that guy in the animegaf topic who likes FSN more than FZ.

I think a person's likability does affect how much the audience would pay attention to that person to some degree. Additionally, you've also the got the Servants, whose character personalities tend to stand out more than their Masters simply by virtue of them exemplifying different principles of humanity. With a cast like that, you can see why some people wouldn't pay much attention to Kiritsugu, who is usually silent and does his work behind the scenes efficiently. I don't sympathize with Kiritsugu either, but I find him just incredibly fascinating to watch.
 

duckroll

Member
I don't want to pic spam, so I'll link instead, but another aspect I really liked about this episode is that the art team took the trouble to just draw animals which would add flavor to the introduction of the episode, which we generally do not see at all in the series! <3 <3

Crab: http://i.imgur.com/QinHZ.jpg
Piggie: http://i.imgur.com/RXBI8.jpg
Fish: http://i.imgur.com/dk3Fk.jpg
Doggie: http://i.imgur.com/Qm0Jv.jpg
Rooster: http://i.imgur.com/WCsl6.jpg
Cow: http://i.imgur.com/QFIXh.jpg

sogood.gif
 

Diablos54

Member
I don't want to pic spam, so I'll link instead, but another aspect I really liked about this episode is that the art team took the trouble to just draw animals which would add flavor to the introduction of the episode, which we generally do not see at all in the series! <3 <3

Crab: http://i.imgur.com/QinHZ.jpg
Piggie: http://i.imgur.com/RXBI8.jpg
Fish: http://i.imgur.com/dk3Fk.jpg
Doggie: http://i.imgur.com/Qm0Jv.jpg
Rooster: http://i.imgur.com/WCsl6.jpg
Cow: http://i.imgur.com/QFIXh.jpg

sogood.gif
Wow, um, I think you like F/Z a little toooo much, if that's even possible. :p

Very interesting to see Kerry's past, but I don't think the reason was so that the audience sympathize with him. More so that they can understand why he's such a cold hearted bad ass. Next week seems to be a continuation so I'm looking forward to see how his mentor most likely gets killed off to send him into the deep end.
 

/XX/

Member
The first episode pretty much gives you a concise answer on why Kiritsugu is afraid of Kotomine. The things that the show reveals about Kotomine helps the audience understand that answer, but I'm not sure if there's anything in particular that affects Kiritsugu's view of Kotomine thus far.
Thanks for the answer. Seeing it again, that post I wrote ended up been like a veiled question asking for more information or a confirmation on that.

I thought there would be more implications for Kiritsugu's fixation on Kotomine shown on this flashback down the road, but it is true all seems completely laid out since the beginning, I was simply expecting another turn of the screw.
 
Thanks for the answer. Seeing it again, that post I wrote ended up been like a veiled question asking for more information or a confirmation on that.

I thought there would be more implications for Kiritsugu's fixation on Kotomine shown on this flashback down the road, but it is true all seems completely laid out since the beginning, I was simply expecting another turn of the screw.

I'm not the type of person that would confirm or deny anything. Anything that I say with knowledge of current or future events would painted with my own perspective, which would be absolutely detrimental in a show like this where understanding of the characters is a necessity. That's why I'm only giving my speculations and ideas about these events as they occur, just like everyone else. Additionally, I also hope to increase my own understanding of the work by engaging in conversation with people who were exposed via the anime.

Besides, just saying yes or no to everything would be boring. :)

With that said, what I said about Kotomine and Kiritsugu are my own perspective on the relationship between them thus far, and people should be free to interpret that differently.
 

sonicmj1

Member
Yours is a rare opinion, since a good part of the opinions I've found in the internet have found Kiritsugu too unsympathetic to care about his character development. I suppose that's to be expected since
ufotable is only really exploring Kiritsugu's emotional side 18 episodes in the series, and that's after what happened a few episodes before with the Lancer team.
I just find it interesting that ufotable did decide to do that, since that's a distinct change from how the novelization handled Kiritsugu's characterization, where the narration described it quite thoroughly throughout the story.

EDIT: <rant> On a side note, I find that I can't really discuss the changes between the anime and the novels in detail in other places where people do have knowledge of both, since most of the conversation is dictated over what changed between the two instead of why it was changed, which makes me a sad panda. That kind of talk just seems really shallow to me, and doesn't contribute to a good exchange of opinions and ideas. Unfortunately, I can't really go into much detail here either, since there really isn't much that I can talk about unless you know the story as a whole. I'll just have to live with it, I guess. </rant>

I haven't read the novel, but I've stumbled across a lot of that kind of discussion in other places, and it always seems to just boil down to "it's different!" (implying that the adaptation is automatically worse as a result). But it seems to me like all of the changes I've heard about were made pretty intelligently.

For example, apparently in the novel's telling of this episode,
Kiritsugu is given a gun by Natalia to kill his father, while he uses a knife here, initially. In some ways, the former makes more sense, but the latter provides clear visual parallels both to the previous episode and to actions earlier in the episode which highlight Kiritsugu's character development. These are more obvious in a visual medium, and considering the focus of the flashback is Kiritsugu's character, getting those changes across is really the more important thing.

Also, there's apparently some internal stuff from
his father's perspective during the immediate leadup to the killing, which paints him more sympathetically
, but I don't see how that would have really fit in the visual format.

It seems like Ufotable has had to take a novel that relied heavily on an omniscient, thought-viewing narrator to inform us about people, and translate that into a visual medium, and I feel that the choices they've made to that end have largely succeeded.
 
Yours is a rare opinion, since a good part of the opinions I've found in the internet have found Kiritsugu too unsympathetic to care about his character development. I suppose that's to be expected since
ufotable is only really exploring Kiritsugu's emotional side 18 episodes in the series, and that's after what happened a few episodes before with the Lancer team.
I just find it interesting that ufotable did decide to do that, since that's a distinct change from how the novelization handled Kiritsugu's characterization, where the narration described it quite thoroughly throughout the story.
You should pass on Branduil's advice to rewatch the first episode. Kiritsugu starts crying and doesn't even want to hold his newborn child because he doesn't think he deserves to. Also, dat insecure posture.

It's easy to forget about since it's in the first couple minutes of an exposition-jammed 50-minutes-long first episode, but it's important.
 

Branduil

Member
Speaking of Maiya... I wonder if the next episode will show us how they met.

Well it'd be cool if they gave her actual characterization. Right now all we really know is that she's extremely loyal to Kiritsugu
to the point of NTR-ing Iri.
 

duckroll

Member
Upcoming ep credits!

Ep19
Episode Director: Takahiro Miura
Storyboard: Takahiro Miura
Animation Director: Keita Shimizu

Ep20
Episode Director: Ato Nonaka
Storyboard: Keiichi Sasajima
Animation Director: TBA

Ep21
Episode Director: Akihiko Uda
Storyboard: Ei Aoki
Animation Director: Toshiyuki Shirai

Ep22
Episode Director: Takuya Nonaka
Storyboard: Fumie Muroi
Animation Director: Takayuki Mogi

Ep23
Episode Director: Kei Tsunematsu
Storyboard: Kei Tsunematsu
Animation Director: Atsushi Ikariya
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Upcoming ep credits!

Ep19
Episode Director: Takahiro Miura
Storyboard: Takahiro Miura
Animation Director: Keita Shimizu

Ep20
Episode Director: Ato Nonaka
Storyboard: Keiichi Sasajima
Animation Director: TBA

Ep21
Episode Director: Akihiko Uda
Storyboard: Ei Aoki
Animation Director: Toshiyuki Shirai

Ep22
Episode Director: Takuya Nonaka
Storyboard: Fumie Muroi
Animation Director: Takayuki Mogi

Ep23
Episode Director: Kei Tsunematsu
Storyboard: Kei Tsunematsu
Animation Director: Atsushi Ikariya

Mind elaborating on which director did which episodes? Other than Takahiro since we know which ones he did.
 

duckroll

Member
Mind elaborating on which director did which episodes? Other than Takahiro since we know which ones he did.

Ep19:
Takahiro Miura directed OP1 and ep15, and previously directed Garden of Sinners 6. Keita Shimizu is the animation director for ep4 and 11. This is the second Kiritsugu flashback episode.

Ep20:
Ato Nonaka directed ep12 and Keiichi Sasajima storyboarded episodes 3, 6, and 15. While there is no animation director credit listed, I would say there is a good chance Takayuki Mogi is handling it, since he handles all the Ufotable Tokushima episodes (ep 6-8, 12, 17).

Ep21:
Akihiko Uda directed ep13, and the storyboarder Ei Aoki is the director of the series. Toshiyuki Shirai did animation direction for ep8 and 16. This is very likely going to be the episode with a major V-MAX action sequence, since the Ufotable producer mentioned that the director is storyboarding the V-MAX scenes personally.

Ep22:
Takuya Nonaka directed ep 6-7 and 17. He's basically the chief director for the Ufotable Tokushima episodes. This is the first episode of Fate/Zero storyboarded by Fumie Muroi. As with previous Ufotable Tokushima episodes, the animation director is Takayuki Mogi.

Ep23:
Kei Tsunematsu is the assistant director of the series and he handled ep 2-3 and 14. Atsushi Ikariya is one of the two character designers for the series, and he and Tomonori Sudou are animation directors for all the major episodes, so this should be the start of the grand climax.
 

Articalys

Member
I was going back over some of the chapters in the novel, and I realized that when this is all over I'd love to see a timeline of how all the events of the series played out, considering that everything happens over about only a week and a half. Might put things into a interesting perspective.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Ep19 preview pics: http://moca-news.net/article/20120509/201205092053a/01/

Looking sweet. Can't wait. :D

Those are some various age Kiritsugu pics. lolol.


Ep19:
Takahiro Miura directed OP1 and ep15, and previously directed Garden of Sinners 6. Keita Shimizu is the animation director for ep4 and 11. This is the second Kiritsugu flashback episode.

Ep20:
Ato Nonaka directed ep12 and Keiichi Sasajima storyboarded episodes 3, 6, and 15. While there is no animation director credit listed, I would say there is a good chance Takayuki Mogi is handling it, since he handles all the Ufotable Tokushima episodes (ep 6-8, 12, 17).

Ep21:
Akihiko Uda directed ep13, and the storyboarder Ei Aoki is the director of the series. Toshiyuki Shirai did animation direction for ep8 and 16. This is very likely going to be the episode with a major V-MAX action sequence, since the Ufotable producer mentioned that the director is storyboarding the V-MAX scenes personally.

Ep22:
Takuya Nonaka directed ep 6-7 and 17. He's basically the chief director for the Ufotable Tokushima episodes. This is the first episode of Fate/Zero storyboarded by Fumie Muroi. As with previous Ufotable Tokushima episodes, the animation director is Takayuki Mogi.

Ep23:
Kei Tsunematsu is the assistant director of the series and he handled ep 2-3 and 14. Atsushi Ikariya is one of the two character designers for the series, and he and Tomonori Sudou are animation directors for all the major episodes, so this should be the start of the grand climax.

Hmm... I don't really care much for those episodes. They're great and all but not really standouts for me. Except Episode 14 and 16.
 
Man, I'm looking forward to all these episodes. I can't really choose which one that I think I should be hyped for, so I'm just going to be excited for the next episode and every episode from 21 onward.

Too bad the second boxset doesn't come out until September.

EDIT: On the second thought, they all sound good so I'm just going to be giddy for the next two months.
 

Orin GA

I wish I could hat you to death
beeweapon.jpg
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Next episode returns to the present, but I would have liked to see more of Kiritsugu's character development.

Otherwise, once again a very good episode - I can't stress enough how consistently good this series has been for me.
 
This anime man.

So much sadness all around.

I'm really surprised how well done this series is, I had never bothered with the Fate universe before,.
 
ep 19

I think they should have left off Kiritusugu's backstory at the last episode really and just implied what happened next based on how he ended that episode 18. That was my favorite so far. This episode 19 was hard to get behind as there were just too few Kerry moments which were actually good. As he got older he became more and more uninteresting and unappealing as a character. As a fan of action however I did enjoy what the episode offered in that department, only during the final "mini arc" of sorts
The stuff with the plane and Natalia taking on everything along leading to the interesting missile assault (though why in the world were so many birds around, they were in the way). Difficult to feel the emotion there with Kiritsugu since he was the one to fire it down and there were other options available, she could have landed in the water for example and escaped, she could have had some parachute packed to land, she didnt have to take the guy out on the plane, IMO. I wish they would try some sort of Resident Evil esque anime as I think they could really do it with whoever wrote this episode and the animation team behind it.

Visuals were nice.
 

Orin GA

I wish I could hat you to death
I pretty much knew what he was gonna do tho since it was fore-shadowed ...wait..back-shadowed...whatever.... in episode 1.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
ep 19

I think they should have left off Kiritusugu's backstory at the last episode really and just implied what happened next based on how he ended that episode 18. That was my favorite so far. This episode 19 was hard to get behind as there were just too few Kerry moments which were actually good. As he got older he became more and more uninteresting and unappealing as a character. As a fan of action however I did enjoy what the episode offered in that department, only during the final "mini arc" of sorts
The stuff with the plane and Natalia taking on everything along leading to the interesting missile assault (though why in the world were so many birds around, they were in the way). Difficult to feel the emotion there with Kiritsugu since he was the one to fire it down and there were other options available, she could have landed in the water for example and escaped, she could have had some parachute packed to land, she didnt have to take the guy out on the plane, IMO. I wish they would try some sort of Resident Evil esque anime as I think they could really do it with whoever wrote this episode and the animation team behind it.

Visuals were nice.

Too risky to do anything but what Kiritsugu did. He didn't want to risk anything bad. Also, this episode wouldn't have fit with the last episode at all.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
After this episode, I now know the BD Set II is going to be freaking amazing.
I am envious since I think you're going to get it!

I just finished it, and I need a little time to absorb the ending to put together a good post later. I thought the facial expressions were very well-done (as usual). I also liked how the beginning of this episode contrasted a lot with the previous episode in terms of colour palette. Much of the scene direction was good as well. Edit:
The contrast between Kiritsugu's emotions in killing his father and other victims, and then shooting the plane down was done nicely.

Must reiterate my love for this show.
 

Mr. Hyde

Member
This show has been two seasons so far, right? Is it fine to jump into season 1 of it without ever experiencing the fate universe?
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
This show has been two seasons so far, right? Is it fine to jump into season 1 of it without ever experiencing the fate universe?

Yes and no.
Going in fresh you'll probably miss a lot of the other references, but on the other hand... you won't already know the ending :D
 
Question:

It has been bothering me for quite some time, but Tokiome said he gave Sakura up because only 1 child can inherit the family's magic. Is that an actual in-universe rule like in that stupid Disney Channel show (Witches of Waverly Place?), or is that just some stupid self-imposed rule?
 
Question:

It has been bothering me for quite some time, but Tokiome said he gave Sakura up because only 1 child can inherit the family's magic. Is that an actual in-universe rule like in that stupid Disney Channel show (Witches of Waverly Place?), or is that just some stupid self-imposed rule?

What he's referring to, a magic crest, is an actual physical thing that is transplanted into the child. Think of it as a bodily organ that passes on from generation to generation.
 
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