Meccanical
Member
It wouldn't be so bad if the spaghetti stayed on the plate.
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Final Fantasy VII 15th Anniversary
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
It wouldn't be so bad if the spaghetti stayed on the plate.
Sorry, but I just don't follow you...
Try this one for size:
Shinra and Rin work on their Farplane thingy their whole life. Shinra's descendants eventually manage to harness that energy (the Guados helped... they put their differences aside, it's a beautiful science/spirituality joint effort, and Gene Roddenberry would be proud).
Space ships are built. Some Spirans leave for other planets.
Some of them find the Final Fantasy VII planet, and settle on it (they're "settlers" / "setorâ" -> "setora" / "Cetra" OMG!1!!).
Jenova eventually fucks everything up. Some of the settlers (the more "spiritual" ones... Guado ancestry?) attempt to fight, while the others (human / Al Bhed ancestry? some of them Shinra's descendants) hide and wait. The former group is almost annihilated, while the latter is still (barely) around, but things got so bad that most of their technology and historical records is lost and survival becomes the #1 priority for quite a while (which is why there is much confusion regarding the Ancients/Cetras/Jenova at the time of Final Fantasy VII).
Shinra's descendants managed to protect some of that knowledge though, and while it's incomplete and mostly impracticable for now, it still allows them to remain an influent family for centuries, always a step ahead of their fellow survivors.
2000 years later, mankind has recovered, the Shinra Company is formed, and their centuries-long investigations of various legends finally pay off when they (re-)discover Makô energy. Unfortunately, they do so without the guidance of their more spiritual cousins (now called "Cetras" or "Ancients"), and you know the rest...
Did I contradict something from Final Fantasy VII, there?
Good thing they never claimed they had it all planned from the beginning, then, unlike Darlton!
(and I believe my little story above makes a lot more sense than any Lost "theory of everything" I've ever seen)
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Aha, Kato has his share of retcons too.
Good example. The idea is left open. Anyone can give an example, such as yours to make a decent explanation to how X and VII connect.
Just needs the right sauce and cheese (i.e. Hiroyuki Ito ideas).
Pretty sure the Chrono games have caused more headaches than FF. But the two games are such a fictional feast.
Why? Kato is a worse writer than Toriyama.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
All I know is that the internal logic of the Chrono games was far more consistent than what I saw in FFXIII.
It's obvious that I have a bias for the Chrono experience. Cross's story and its juxtaposition to Trigger felt really effective in portraying new characters in a new setting while retaining that "Chrono" feel.
I put hours into FFX and FFXIII and I just couldn't get into the setting of those games. Sin was a pretty cool concept though.
charlequin
Banned
I enjoy the idea that for no reason whatsoever all the Final Fantasy worlds are actually planets in the same universe (HEY MAYBE THAT'S WHY THE GAMES END ON A STARFIELD!!!) and I find it extremely amusing when silly ideas like this cause other people serious consternation because they think it "ruins the narrative" or whatever. The fact that you're arguing about this instead of just saying "man Nojima was hitting some serious reefer when he thought THAT up" and moving on just amps up the perverse appeal of the idea.
Meccanical
Member
Not even comparable in my eyes.
she looks so amazing here!
I never beat FF7 until last year.
But seeing how the game ended on that made me pretty happy as a classic FF fan
And Final Fantasy VII begins with a starfield, an early hint at it actually being set after another game!1!!
Same here, especially considering how easy it is to ignore that theory anyway. It's barely hinted at in a sub-sub-plot of Final Fantasy X-2, after all.
I mean, that's nothing compared to how Tolkien raped my childhood by retconning that little trinket of invisibility into The One Ring To Rule Them All! Like, suuuuure, J. R. R., you had it all planned, which is why you went back and edited the Hobbit after the fact, you weasel! Such bullshit!
[/sarcasm]
Meccanical
Member
When's the last time an FF has ended on a starfield by the way?
I don't remember that in IX...
I don't remember that in IX...
completely agree with this... amano by himself looks great in artbooks but doesnt translate well to a video game... nomura has style but his original concepts are so ridiculous that you cant take seriously.
charlequin
Banned
Pretty sure it's 7.
WHICH IS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT, BTW, MAYBE WE SHOULD ALL TALK ABOUT THAT
I think Dissidia shows to be real faithful in translating Nomura's art into playable form. But I'm still wishing a developer would someday translate Amano's style into something interactive along the lines of this.
Here's another that I posted before, but I still think it bears repeating.
You can't really make out the ghosts of the Cetra in the Temple of the Ancients, but if you looked really closely:
Aerith's ancestors looked like old FF Black Mages. Great mythology touch.
Does that mean the Chocobo Sage is an ancient?
FF7 was the first final fantasy i ever played
the first JRPG (not including zelda series) i ever played was Chrono Trigger on my SNES back in middle school... i was late to the FF7 wagon since i got a PS1 about a year after FF7 came out and a friend let me borrow his game. i literally went from playing Chrono Trigger and Zelda:LttP to FF7 and it was such an amazing leap in production values and scale whil still having a quality core of gameplay/music/story that it cememted me as Squaresoft fanatic for the PS1-PS2 era. pretty much bought every single FF since then but non were as good as 7 IMHO (I even went back and played the earlier ones and still liked 7 the best). I thank FF7 for making me a square fan and bringing my attention to Xenogears and Vagrant Story which I believe to be the 2 best games Square has ever made
the first JRPG (not including zelda series) i ever played was Chrono Trigger on my SNES back in middle school... i was late to the FF7 wagon since i got a PS1 about a year after FF7 came out and a friend let me borrow his game. i literally went from playing Chrono Trigger and Zelda:LttP to FF7 and it was such an amazing leap in production values and scale whil still having a quality core of gameplay/music/story that it cememted me as Squaresoft fanatic for the PS1-PS2 era. pretty much bought every single FF since then but non were as good as 7 IMHO (I even went back and played the earlier ones and still liked 7 the best). I thank FF7 for making me a square fan and bringing my attention to Xenogears and Vagrant Story which I believe to be the 2 best games Square has ever made
Meccanical
Member
Does that mean the Chocobo Sage is an ancient?
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
STOP BLOWING MY MIND
The thing is, the majority of the designs aside from VII are very much Amano's designs.
Every single one of them pretty much you can find a piece of art that is almost exactly like the in game character designs.
Nomura was very, very precise translating alot of those characters. In fact OK and Firion are amazing how well he got Amano's look into a 3D model. Hell I mean just look at the bead placements, or the design of lines in Cecil's armor. I would say that Nomura's work on Dissidia is one of the most dedicated looks of translating any artist so far in gaming.
Super Smash Bro
Banned
Anyone know if FFXIII as FFVII prequel is confirmed/hinted at?
Jenova = Fal'Cie
Sephiroth = L'Cie tasked with destroying the world, killing enough people to bring back the Maker (or whatever was happening in FFXIII), fails his focus and transforms into a weird half angel thing, the same thing happened to FFXIII Cid
There were a couple of other similarities that I caught while playing XIII but I've forgotten them now.
Jenova = Fal'Cie
Sephiroth = L'Cie tasked with destroying the world, killing enough people to bring back the Maker (or whatever was happening in FFXIII), fails his focus and transforms into a weird half angel thing, the same thing happened to FFXIII Cid
There were a couple of other similarities that I caught while playing XIII but I've forgotten them now.
Meccanical
Member
What the shit.
I've never heard of anything even remotely hinting at XIII being linked to VII outside of them trying to do something on the level of VII but failing. Aside from that they have completely different writters so I don't know why a X-2 Senario would happen.
For the record, while I think the idea of a Final Fantasy VII / Final Fantasy X connection is amusing and has some merit (it's hard not to see the Lifestream/Farplane, Makô/Fireflies, Materias/Spheres similarities), I'm not a fan of the numerous layers added by the Compilation...
"Never mind the S Project, did we tell you about the G Project? There totally was one! Also, "A" for "Angeal". And UG Soldiers!"
It seems Shinra was engaged in an alphabet race against the Super Robot Wars series...
"The Goddess! Chaos! Omega Weapon! Zirconia Aid! Jade Weapon! A whole bunch of new mad scientists!"
Damn. Crazy how we somehow managed to completely miss all that in the original game. It all seems so fucking important. In fact, it's like the main game didn't really matter all that much, in the end. Reminds me of the Star Wars expanded universe.
Also, it seems I'm now supposed to find the Turks extremely sympathetic, but... wasn't there something about dropping a huge plate on a whole bunch of people, in the original game, at some point? I mean, that was pretty shitty.
I can look past that a lot more easily with chibi-fied characters than with realistic/so-serious graphics...
Meccanical
Member
Indeed.
I remember in the Sector 7 slums how this gossiping lady was talking about how a bunch of civilians were killed in the explosion.
Yet they continue to blow shit up, gray morality is rather rare in FF.
And there again, I don't know how this would feel in a remake with a more realistic presentation...
I dunno... It seems to me Avalanche, or Barett's version of it, at least, didn't really know all that much about the workings of the Makô in the first place...
"Meh, I'm pretty confident blowing everything up will help, somehow. Also, I hate Shinra. So. Damn. Much. So there's that, too."
"Meh, I'm pretty confident blowing everything up will help, somehow. Also, I hate Shinra. So. Damn. Much. So there's that, too."
On the contrary, I think video game has evolved to the stage that it can present those darker elements in the traditional archetypical tale of "heroes saves the world from evil."
But then you're right, I don't think SE's the particular company that would do it. I'm waiting to see how Versus turns out, Nomura said it'd be a darker story.
Does that mean the Chocobo Sage is an ancient?
Wrong type of hat. He just likes the Black Mage Robe style because he's cool like that.
ALSO, as for the FFX-2 --- FF7 connection, you guys are making too much of it. It really was intended as a wink and and a nudge to the fans from Nojima. Yes, he wrote a connection, but he did so in a casual way and also because he thought it'd be funny.
Ultimania interview:
--"So VII's story is after that?"
Nojima
"Well, you could say the feelings I have are like that. When I think about the
characters, those are the kinds of feelings I already have. Shinra is a good
child, but his descendants are going to end up becoming like the president [of
Shin-Ra] (laughs)."
http://fyeahfinalfantasy.tumblr.com/post/6192598047/kazushige-nojima-on-shinra-ffx-2-and-ffvii
Is there a connection between Shinra and FFVII?
Nojima: Yes, actually. After Shinra quit the Gullwings he got enormous financial backing from Rin and went to the Farplane to start extracting the Mako energy used by the Vegnagun. But the system for utilizing this energy could not be completed in his generation, so far in the future when space travel was possible, the Shinra Company was founded on another planet or something like that. That would be a thousand years or so from this games story.
And VIIs story takes place after that?
Nojima: Well, you could say thats how I personally feel about it.
***NOTE: The second statement where Nojima says that is how he personally feels about it is an inaccurate translation, as far as the context of the interview goes.
The rough translation reads Even well, in me such feeling you will say. In Japanese context, it really means something along the lines ofIts all in my head, or, Its just inside me. Nojima says this because of the fact that everything he described (Spira travelling in space, 1,000 year gap) isnt in the game with the other evidence (because that would only deviate from the main story, thus, more subtle hints are found instead,) but rather, it is just in his head at the moment.
This is not implying that there really isnt a connection, but Nojima personally feels like there is (otherwise, why would this have been published in the first place? He IS the writer, after all.) Rather, it should mean there is a connection, but it just hasnt been expanded on yet. Nojima planned a connection, put what evidence there is in the game, but as far as the details of how they are connected, it is just in his head at the moment.
Again, the key words are IS and HOW. There IS a connection, Nojima says, but as far as HOW there is a connection, that hasnt been worked out yet in much detail.
--
So it's really just a bone that Nojima threw to the fans to argue over and he hadn't really got an overarching plan yet. Maybe he'll never return to the idea as it was just tossed out.
This may be a little bit of ridiculous speculation on my part but can one believe that Cloud is mentally still a 16 year old in Final Fantasy VII? More-so upon resolving his identity issues on disc 2 and finally becoming 'Cloud' again. His mind was checked out for 5 years following the Nibleheim incident and while most likely an oversight in the writing department such thinking would tie-in rather nicely with the meta-textual theme of 'playing hero' within the game.
Cloud wasn't in a coma the whole time he was in the tube. He and Zack both communicated through writting and it wasn't until the end of CC/FF VII scene we're Cloud mind finally breaks and the gap between then and the start of VII is very short.
The theory isn't bad but it doesn't work in practice with what happens in the game.
Also I never really believed Cloud's story to be a theme of playing the hero. The sad part is when Cloud is himself is when he is the most heroic. His Soliderself actually does far more harm then good while he does protect those he loves and cares about when he is the "real" Cloud.
All along it's self doubt and that kills him. Cloud is perfectly capable of Solider like feats, we see this with how his body reacts to Jenova cells and things like what happens at Nibelhiem and in Before Crisis. He pretty much failed Soldier because his mind couldn't handle it and that was about it.
I guess, but it would feel like a very different game and very different characters... I mean, as it is now, there's slapstick and cross-dressing in-between two murderous bomb attacks. Something has to give...
"That's how I personally feel about it" sounds like a fairly accurate translation of "boku no naka dewa (sonna kanji to demo iimashô ka)" to me. The proposed "it's all in my head" and "it's just inside me" add a nuance ("it's just a rough idea at the moment" / "I haven't actually started working on it just yet" / "it's not finalized" / "I have yet to expand on that") that I don't feel in the original Japanese...
That is likely a factor and a perfectly valid idea. Just realize he was partially lucid during his stay in the tubes. Zack in CC shows they weren't totally aware of the time passing, so it'd be like waking up from a dream over and over and then finding 5 years passed.
So he's not TOTALLY mentally still 16, but sort of is--you'd be messed up too if you spent the end of puberty suspended in a tube of magical mindwarp fluid. This also explains his somewhat awkwardness around dating girls--the guy went on a few dates with Tifa back home, joined the army at 14 to impress her and then all of a sudden he's a 21 year old virgin who hasn't dated in 5 years.
Just like all of us here and me too hiyoooooooooooooooooooooooo.
I agree. However I believe the theme is there because Cloud's character and development serves as a deconstruction. Cloud's original self is a reflection of the game's target audience; slightly awkward, adventurous teens with hopes of greatness. Cloud as a youth is an outcast, devoid of a father figure. He's rejected by his peers for being different. He idolises Sephiroth because of his depiction as a cool and beloved hero in the media. Similar to how the player will (and oh how they still do) idolize 'Cloud'. He wants to model himself as a hero like Sephiroth and impress the girl next door so he joins Shinra. Cloud believes that he alone is not enough and once his image of Sephiroth is shattered models himself upon Zack instead when his mental 'schism' occurs.
However this 'Cloud' fucks up constantly. People are killed in collateral damage. Aerith is kidnapped. He hands over the Black Materia. Aerith is killed. He allows Sephiroth to summon Meteor. He's a jerk. A narcissist. And it's because he's playing the hero rather than being one. Only once he gets over all his bullshit does he finally start succeeding and becomes someone pretty down-to earth. People never really talk about Cloud following the trip into his mind on disc 2 because he is rather unremarkable. He's suddenly a normal guy caught up in some grandiose adventure. And that's okay. The game can end up telling the player a lot about themselves if they let it.
Wanting a more realistic appearance isn't really a "retcon". It's more of a modernization. Just like how AC modernized Barret so he didn't look like a hulking giant who could crush Tifa with his one good hand.
(best quality I could find)
Why would anyone object to this kind of look?
Except to say "the tits are too small".
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
Odd use of bolding.
I wouldn't assume those Japanese game developers had Walmart in mind...
I always extrapolated it had that name because the market was built close to the wall that separated sector 6 from 7.
Gamz_Gernaliz
Banned
Am I the only one who wouldn't want voice acting in a remake?
Because there are a hundred different kind of approaches to character revisioning and people prefer these different approaches.
Gamz_Gernaliz
Banned
Extremely boring aesthetic. That's not to say it needs more buckles and zippers, it simply looks boring and unappealing.
Considering how atrocious SE's NA voice direction is, no, you're definitely not alone there.
I'm always curious as to how someone finds it 'fresh' 15 years later.Similar threads
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