DiipuSurotu
Banned
An idea suggested in the FFX Ultimania, explained in the FFX-2 Ultimania, and reiterated in the FFVII Ultimania Omega, and again suggested by Cid's airship in Dirge of Cerberus...
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Final Fantasy VII 15th Anniversary
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
Meccanical
Member
And not expanded in the original FF7, so to hell with it.
Yet not suggested or even likely in VII itself. It is somethig invented entirely after the fact and it doesn't fit.
I don't recall a direct mention of anything Spira... just that the ship (or its parts) were ancient technology that was excavated. And what Final Fantasy (or jRPG in general) doesn't have ANCIENT TECH FROM A BYGONE CIVILIZATION somewhere in its back story?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
The ship totally looks like a Spiran airship. And what Final Fantasy doesn't? Well, FFVII doesn't.
Obviously.
That was so epic when I got there the first time. Still gives me shivers.
I think this point was brought up once before in a different thread weeks ago. Someone suggested they were both designed by the same staff member. I'm not sure what came of that. Need to find that thread to confirm.
The first two equations calculate the sun's and planet's potential attractive forces, the third equation calculates the Earth's potential attractive forces and the fourth misstates that the asteroid is working on a two-dimensional level, as it is the equation for the area of a circle, all to direct the energy used to cause the supernova.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Supernova
By people have who very little concern with integrity, continuity, and bastardization, so yeah, I'm pretty a-ok with not accepting that.
I like Nomuraized versions.
This is where I land as well.
Nomura filtering Amano brings out the great aspects of both of them while also curbing some of the bad habits both of them always have.
Overall though I full expect and want Advent Children esk character for the VII remake and will be super pissed if there isn't a new game plus with Cloud's AC outfit and weapon.
Paid DLC.
Meccanical
Member
I don't think it did (there's a date, actually, I believe), but it's not like it would have to either.
Again, why couldn't the Final Fantasy VII mankind be descended from space-traveling Spirans?
And there would be the Shinra character in Final Fantasy X-2, of course.
Well, I'm pretty sure Square Enix doesn't have access to time travel...
Sure, it could fit. You're just not trying very hard.
Not that it's worth losing sleep over anyway, really... What does it matter, in the end? Personally, I don't even expect them to go back and expand on those games in the foreseeable future, anyway...
Day 1.
because you are...a puppet.
For Cloud's AC design and weapon? I will be whatever the fuck I have to be for that.
Because if they're descended then there's no Spira-Shinra connection. Shinra is a young company. So if Spirans came there hundreds of years ago it doesn't matter anyway then what's the point?
Also, if they're descended from a space-faring race that post-dates the great calamity from the sky (so they can't have gotten there too long ago), why would their technological levels have devolved so much?
If Shinra is formed by Spiran travellers, then President Shinra is Spiran as he's the only guy who'd fit the timeframe.
Also, if Shinra is made by space-travelling Spirans, why is their space program shit?
edit - Erigu, for someone who rightly calls LOST producers out on their bullshit so much, you sure seem to readily accept the bullshit about this. This is less likely than Darlton having all six seasons of LOST planned from the beginning.
Meccanical
Member
I'm honestly shocked people are still bitching about the FF X and VII connection this long after it happened.
Might as well move on and just let it be. It's done and now refrenced into multiple works clearly showing they are keeping it and it could easily work it's way in to a Remake as well.
Might as well move on and just let it be. It's done and now refrenced into multiple works clearly showing they are keeping it and it could easily work it's way in to a Remake as well.
People bitch about it because it doesn't actually work. You have to retcon vast amounts of VII to make it fit. It isn't 'done' at all, despite SE's greatest efforts. At best they can remake VII and include all those retcons, but I'd expect them to fuck that up and keep all the inconsistencies anyway because they're obviously a group of people who don't bother fact checking their own games when forcefully making connections years after the fact.
Meccanical
Member
I don't see them doing this to IX, VIII, VI, V, IV, III, II, or I.
Leave VII alone dammit.
Though VIII could actually benefit from a retcon or two.
Leave VII alone dammit.
Though VIII could actually benefit from a retcon or two.
It is done, regardless of if you and the rest of existence accepts it as truth doesn't matter. As far as offical matterial and works by Square Enix who owns Final Fantasy, both VII and X are connected.
The connection can not work or be shit or whatever you and the rest want but as far as what considered canon and reality to the one entitiy that matters they are indeed connected.
Universe connections aren't any worse then The After Years/IX's guest characters in Crystal Chron/Revenant Wings/Cloud showing up in Tactics and VIII and III's world layout being weirdly the same.
Meccanical
Member
Theoretical scenario:
A year from now Christopher Nolan releases a book called The Dark Knight Ultimania. In it, he states officially that The Dark Knight Rises actually takes place before Batman Begins. Bruce Wayne merely forgets about all his Batman training due to depression-induced amnesia, gets lost in Asia and is trained by Rhas Al Gul, who only got the idea to destroy Gotham from the Joker and Bane.
Because Nolan said so, would it be official canon? Despite the contents of the films making it quite impossible?
Because that's pretty much the X/VII connection in terms of impossibility.
Given it is alot more then one book that does this and it is metioned hinted at in mutliple published works as well as games then it becomes a Retcon no matter how shit it is.
The "Word of god" is such bullshit in this case - especially with its original creator long gone.
These games weren't designed for the sequel/prequel exploitation that plagues the franchise these days.
What the Gooch wanted from Final Fantasy should not be the deciding factor on what happens now. Things change, Gooch moved on and fans need to let him go.
It's also not just the word of god, as said if it was just and one off in one book it wouldn't be a big deal.
The thing is, SE has decided to run with it and has kept it going and turned it into a full blown retcon.
Okay so the Dark Knight Rises has a scene that hints at this amnesia thing and DC releases a comic book that focuses on Catwoman that also explicitly references it. Neither of them fix the inconsistencies at all.
What then?
That is up to the writer to decide.
Things can be bad, and this connection is bad I won't agrue. However it has become canon and SE offically supports it and has ruled that the two are connected and seem to be willing to continue this, so until they decide it is noncanon it is what it is.
Jesus christ the comic book industry has done a number on you if you actually accept that.
No, I just know that I don't own FF and I'm not the one who gets to decide what is canon and what isn't. If I was Zack showing up to Cloud at the end of ACC would have never fucking happened and neither would this connection.
Meccanical
Member
A director's cut in a movie and a faulty connection being haphazardly made to games 5 years apart is really not the same thing.
At all.
Creators don't have authorial control over their work after it is released. The idea that they do is a very recent one largely propagated by the comic industry. They can, like a director, make a new edit of their original material, but that is counted then as a separate release.
As the X-VII connection blatantly doesn't exist in VII, any material referencing it is in its own "what if?" universe that is merely inspired by the original. They can't will the original VII to be different just because.
Good example: Stargate and Stargate SG-1 - not the same canon because it's impossible.
Another good example: Evil Dead and Evil Dead II - not the same canon because it's impossible.
None of the directors/creators in that project would have the gall to state it didn't actually happen the way it actually happened just because they changed their minds. Instead, they ask that for all future works you pretend it was slightly different.
Square-Enix isn't doing that. They aren't asking for a bit of mental exercise from their fans. They're quite literally trying to state "how it happened? Didn't happen that way at all."
No, but they are things I don't like. However as stated I don't own Square Enix, I didn't write the stories or create the characters so I don't get to decide what to do with either and what is considered offical canon.
Neither does anyone in this thread (though if Nojima is in here HI I love your work) so neither do any of you and trying to claim it's noncanon is nothing short of putting your head in the sand and refusing to accept reality.
No. As said it is talked about in 3 different Ultimania's, it is hinted at in both X-2 and then later in Novels for Advent Children as well as with in DoC.
I got to say though regardless of all the arguements. The VII/X connection is less crazy to me then either Genesis or making it so Zack goes from being Snipped while protecting Cloud to his new ending.
Meccanical
Member
Wait, unless 012 changed things a great deal Garland is the son of Cid and Cosmos. Given his story and becoming Chaos I don't see why him being the son of supernatrual beings is so far fetched.
Meccanical
Member
It's both.
It is a off shoot celebration of Final Fantasy, however at the same time it's a retelling and fleshing out of Final Fantasy 1's Warrior of Light and Garland.
I don't know if it connects everything together. This gets muddled because without spoilers the end of Dissidia 1 makes it so that it can all happen but not have them connected, however from what I read 012 actually turns this on it's head and has it so Cloud/Squall/Zidane and the rest are actually themselves and were pulled into the world to help and they are all choosen Warriors of Light/Dark.
I mean a joke made by Nojima. I'm pretty sure it sounds like that in the Ultimania.
I'll check on the ones I own (FFVII and FFX Ultimania ).
At first it may have been. However it was made real with the creation of X-2 and Shinra were he started writting directly into the games themselves.
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