So the head honcho was the one to blame.
If it was anyone else those designs would've been sent back to the drawing board.
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Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia Review Thread
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If it was anyone else those designs would've been sent back to the drawing board.
AlexFlame116
Member
Oh okay. I can live with that.
Cause it looks to me like the pairings are already decided in-game.
I believe they are. There is no marriage system
AlexFlame116
Member
Ooh interesting! That's new for me!
It looks like Alm and Celica might be a thing together so I'd feel bad if I broke that. Reminds me a bit if Chrom and Sumia
/Cordelia
MrSaturn99
Member
Having played through the original Gaiden recently, it's disappointing they didn't bother updating the maps. I haven't played every FE, but I think I can safely say the Celica swamp map is probably the worst in the series history. Sheer torture, especially with all the summoners and their gargoyles (speaking of which, I imagine the summoners remain just as annoying, too).
Looking forward to it, otherwise.
Looking forward to it, otherwise.
MrCookiepants
Member
This reminds me I never got around to picking up Fates. I think I'll do that now.
I just hope it means the return the return to form will continue with FE 2018.
AlexFlame116
Member
Don't feel bad. These old school FE fans are notoriously shitty and reductive about the new games. Like what you like.
Doesn't help that they nerfed Dear >:c
Ghost is Bad
Banned
If you like old school fire emblem, then you probably won't like SoV lol.
I like it too and i started with binding blade, it just didn't make sense in it's inclusion in fates. I would love to see a game where main cast actually gets older instead of doing all this work around magic/different timeline shit to introduce children.
Don't be. If old FE fans are allowed to enjoy the older games, why can't newer players enjoy the newer games? FE Switch will most likely have pair ups/marriage, but i really hope they decide to skip children, they just aren't necessary.
theprodigy
Member
knock it off with your stupidly aggressive posts
well, it depends on what you liked about the older games
if it's gameplay....lol
Don't. It was fine in Awakening, but completely unnecessary in Fates plus shoe-horned children and mycastle FE Amie. I'd be perfectly ok with marrige AND children to be in the next FE, but only if it means it pulls a
Genealogy of the Holy War
I have only played the GBA games and some of the 3DS titles, but the child stuff there was not well realized. the concept of waifus and support is fitting for games such as this and I do enjoy it in theory, but I really dislike how it often distills the strategy into a relationship grind, or at least min/maxing that stuff stole away the focus on efficient tactical planning. It became a tug of war match in my head during most combat turns I grew so tired of which led to me dropping both 3ds games. (I suppose I wish the requirements to unlock support convos differed from adjacent pairings, maybe just inclusion in fights given the deep bench? Let the strategy breathe...)
Regardless, paring back a lot of those elements has me extremely excited for this game. Just my thoughts without being a reductive asshole.
Maybe when I can go into a single FE thread and not be immediately greeted with the same tired, reductive garbage from y'all.
MrSaturn99
Member
I actually tend to avoid Fire Emblem threads because of the negativity surrounding the newer titles. I love the support systems, the marriages, and how your characters can have kids; I think it's fun, and since I've never really found FE to have good stories anyway, I never cared about how shoehorned in it was in Fates. It was just a fun bonus system on top of the regular strategy game. If you don't like it, just don't use it. Though most people on Gaf seem to think that this attitude is everything wrong with the fanbase, I'm glad there's at least some people who don't mind.
More on topic, the reviews are making me excited to play Echoes! It'll be different than Fates and Awakening, but that will just make it a nice change of pace. I wonder what dungeon exploration in an FE title will be like?
literally half the thread is gatekeeper idiots shitposting about how they're making fire emblem great again and you're calling a man out for taking a couple posts to tell it like it is? we got people left and right on this dang page saying they always feel unwelcome in fire emblem threads around here because the circlejerk is working. that's all fine and dandy but the minute someone drags this garbage fanbase, no sir-ee now we're crossing a line?
cmon, man
I was worried this game would turn out to be another Shadow Dragon in regards to adhering too closely to the original, but I'm happy to be wrong. Guess I'm going to pick this one up eventually (unlike Fates, which I'm still hesitating on).
If marriage is a thing in FE Switch, I hope they can create some other perk to it to replace children (like maybe exchanging skills between the two units).
Conrad Link
Member
I'm an old school Fire Emblem player and I liked the marriage and children stuff. 
I'm fine with playing FE without it but I certainly don't mind it being there either.
Either way, my beloved Celica will keep me content. <3
I'm fine with playing FE without it but I certainly don't mind it being there either.
Either way, my beloved Celica will keep me content. <3
dreamlongdead
Member
This sentence makes no sense at all.
theprodigy
Member
So should people not criticize the dating sim elements of modern Fire Emblem? What else should we not criticize? Just want to be sure.
WiiRevolution1
Member
So how do the two main characters work? Can you play as one through the entire game and get to the ending or does it switch the main character every few chapters?
hydragonwarrior
Member
No. You can only like what *I* like!
AlexFlame116
Member
Why are you being so defensive about this? It's true that both sides have an argument that they always go back to when it's something that they don't like. It's fine to not like the marriage and child system but when it's repeated ad nauseam in a Fire Emblem thread cause it's part of the new FE, it gets pretty tiring.
You can just ignore it. I like the system myself but it's totally fine to acknowledge that others don't. But it's weird when people says Fire Emblem sucks hard because of the newer mechanics and don't find room to agree on the good parts.
Missingnomer
Member
I think it does, so who is right?
psychowave
Member
Nah, no reason to feel bad about it. The concept is great, it's just that the execution sucks (especially in Fates). The biggest problem for me is that making everyone able to marry everyone else results in most relationships being shallow and unlikeable. It worked in FE4 since you kinda expect characters from an old game to be paper thin, but I expect more from newer games. One of my biggest concerns if they remake FE4 is that they might not bother making all the potential relationships make sense, resulting in the same dull, one-note cast of Awakening/Fates.
My review isn't online yet but here are some impressions regardless.
- I love that they kept Gaiden's oddities. Being only able to carry one additional item with you - might it be a better weapon, shield or potion - forces you to evaluate your priorities. Magic is crazy strong, but the self-damage requires you to be thoughtful. Dungeons aren't really worth talking about - they are very simple and short - but they are a nice change of pace. Being able to interact with NPCs in towns makes the world feel more believable. Goddess statues that can resurrect a small number of fallen friends is a nice addition as well.
- Keeping Gaiden's peculiarities is also its biggest fault. I actually don't mind the early maps: they are very simple, straight forward and short, but that's actually a welcome change after Fate's long maps. It's less stressing, more relaxing. A bit like a bigger version of FE Heroes.
- However, some of the later maps are incredibly annoying. Maps have several hard to reach summoners that can endlessly spam reinforcements and progress comes to a screeching halt. The game is generally rather easy, but in order to get these maps over with quickly I'd nevertheless recommend playing on casual...
- Oh, and I love the game's structure. Having two protagonists with different armies that you can change between any time (well, after the beginning at least) is pretty cool. Also means you can just continue the other side if you are stuck on the other.
- Presentation is great. 99% of the game's dialogues are voiced (only exception being requests - I wonder if those were added late into the development) and it's great. Adds a lot of personality. Art style is so much better than Fates/Awakening. Anime scenes are sadly compressed to hell and back and look quite awful.
- Story is leagues above Fates and Awakening. Echoes' story might not be very original, but it's well-made and entertaining. The characters are cool too and talk a lot about themselves even outside of support conversations.
- World map, towns, dungeons are actually fun additions and not just useless nonsense that ruins the pacing like "My Castle" in Fates. Generally, Echoes has a lot less weird bullshit.
The game has its weaknesses, the map designs leave something to desire, but I daresay that it's nevertheless my favorite FE on 3DS. It made me realize how much I miss the classic, more down to earth and honestly more classy approach to FE. It's a damn shame the next main FE will inevitably follow Fates' path of awfuly dumb waifu characters and alienating pandering once again.
- I love that they kept Gaiden's oddities. Being only able to carry one additional item with you - might it be a better weapon, shield or potion - forces you to evaluate your priorities. Magic is crazy strong, but the self-damage requires you to be thoughtful. Dungeons aren't really worth talking about - they are very simple and short - but they are a nice change of pace. Being able to interact with NPCs in towns makes the world feel more believable. Goddess statues that can resurrect a small number of fallen friends is a nice addition as well.
- Keeping Gaiden's peculiarities is also its biggest fault. I actually don't mind the early maps: they are very simple, straight forward and short, but that's actually a welcome change after Fate's long maps. It's less stressing, more relaxing. A bit like a bigger version of FE Heroes.
- However, some of the later maps are incredibly annoying. Maps have several hard to reach summoners that can endlessly spam reinforcements and progress comes to a screeching halt. The game is generally rather easy, but in order to get these maps over with quickly I'd nevertheless recommend playing on casual...
- Oh, and I love the game's structure. Having two protagonists with different armies that you can change between any time (well, after the beginning at least) is pretty cool. Also means you can just continue the other side if you are stuck on the other.
- Presentation is great. 99% of the game's dialogues are voiced (only exception being requests - I wonder if those were added late into the development) and it's great. Adds a lot of personality. Art style is so much better than Fates/Awakening. Anime scenes are sadly compressed to hell and back and look quite awful.
- Story is leagues above Fates and Awakening. Echoes' story might not be very original, but it's well-made and entertaining. The characters are cool too and talk a lot about themselves even outside of support conversations.
- World map, towns, dungeons are actually fun additions and not just useless nonsense that ruins the pacing like "My Castle" in Fates. Generally, Echoes has a lot less weird bullshit.
The game has its weaknesses, the map designs leave something to desire, but I daresay that it's nevertheless my favorite FE on 3DS. It made me realize how much I miss the classic, more down to earth and honestly more classy approach to FE. It's a damn shame the next main FE will inevitably follow Fates' path of awfuly dumb waifu characters and alienating pandering once again.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Difference is FE4's marriage system comes off as much more natural without crapping the story or involving some sort of time travelling contrivances, is written in a more mature way and not ridden with gratuitous fanservice bs.
DecoReturns
Member
Dang it. I forgot to cancel my Echoes preorder from Amazon after I got a preorder down for the Special edition.
Returns for Amazon can be a pain sometimes, I'm an idiot
Edit: Jesus Christ, I had a Best Buy Preorder too for the Special Edition. That's three copies lol. I could've sworn I DID cancel that one once Amazon went up. I mean, I got shipping confirmation but no charge on my card. They always charge first then ship base off my last few orders from them
Returns for Amazon can be a pain sometimes, I'm an idiot
Edit: Jesus Christ, I had a Best Buy Preorder too for the Special Edition. That's three copies lol. I could've sworn I DID cancel that one once Amazon went up. I mean, I got shipping confirmation but no charge on my card. They always charge first then ship base off my last few orders from them
Means wanting the older games with some modern features. Kind of like wanting to play an old FPS with WASD/dual analog controls and optional check points. Or an older RPG with quest markers (that preferable can be toggled off much like the death mode here.) It makes sense to me, everyone has different thresholds for difficulty and design calls.
Excellent review. Having finished the game, I agree with all of that.
dreamlongdead
Member
I had trouble understanding the grammar. So basically older games with Awakening's difficulty options. I get it.
I don't disagree. That's part of what I suggested when I mentioned remakes of Fire Emblem 4 and 5.
Starwolf_UK
Member
FE1s get the healers attacked to gain EXP is really a what were they thinking moment (and probably why you get a Bishop so early). At least in Gaiden they had an attack but from Echoes footage I've seen the sensible EXP from healing occurs thankfully.
They travel along different parts of the overworld but time progresses for both of them so if an enemy fort sends enemies to attack one and they're not in a villager they might get ambushed if you were focusing on completing maps for the other.
I'd say the only bad fire emblem games for a first timer are Conquest (though phoenix mode can help but feels horrible to rely on), Radiant Dawn (difficulty is all over the place and the early maps are some of the hardest) and Thracia 776 (loads of obtuse things). Maybe also Shadow Dragon because it is dull.
You can argue this one might give an odd impression of Fire Emblem due to being very different in places and maps with limited tactical options (there are quite a few maps with a choke point) or poor design but the same can be argued for Heroes which is been the entry point for most people now.
tenderbrew
Member
Really looking forward to this. Loved Fates (especially Conquest.) Just got to finish Persona 5 first! Most likely won't get this one day 1 (but I WILL have the amiibo!)
insecurity is a hell of a drug and the Fire Emblem Old Boys Club is ALWAYS ready to party
AlexFlame116
Member
Limited Edition shipped from Amazon and will arrive on Friday! Now what do I do with the other two orders? One is from GameStop.com and I can't cancel it for some reason. The other is a GameStop in-store preorder.
Lord of Ostia
Member
Not true, there are tons of things to love in the newer titles, I personally love Awakening and Fates has a ton of good points. The marriage and children system isn't a problem by itself, it's the way IS implements it that can be a problem, particularly in Fates as Awakening did a good job with it. The explanation for child characters in Fates is just plain stupid though, and they were really uncreative with the character re-use from Awakening. In Awakening, marriage and children are integral to the plot and experience of the game. In Fates, they feel like a tacked-on afterthought. If you are gonna use those mechanics, do them right and integrate them into the story.
Weird thing is Kusakihara is the director for this game and it has a totally different vibe.
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