Wanted to pull these posts out specifically. Thanks dLMN8R for an excellent summary that let me get up to speed and thanks Alberto for putting into words a lot of what I've felt over the years regarding many of the hysterics about game journalism "ethics." It's always nice to read a rational perspective.
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#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014
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Wanted to pull these posts out specifically. Thanks dLMN8R for an excellent summary that let me get up to speed and thanks Alberto for putting into words a lot of what I've felt over the years regarding many of the hysterics about game journalism "ethics." It's always nice to read a rational perspective.
You know, I agree that it's problematic to have publishers being major advertisers for video game sites. Guess what, though? I can't find anyone in the movement talking about issues like that.
LumpOfCole
Member
#GamerGate is a dumb name anyway; anyone with legitimate beefs with game journalism can come up with a better, non-tainted hashtag. Here are a couple dumb suggestions:
#Journalisnt
#PressReset
#EndClickbait
#Journalisnt
#PressReset
#EndClickbait
ShockingAlberto
Member
#Manopause
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Those all suggest actual goals, which is completely opposed to the GamerGate ethos.
I wish I was joking.
Gategate!
Angry Fork
Member
I saw someone post a vid here a while back of her lying about being a long time gamer, I found that to be shady. I don't like how anti-sex she seems to be also but that's about it, but obviously none of that has anything to do with journalist shit. She's entitled to her opinion, I don't know why there's so much rage when people can just not watch her vids. Do GG people think she (and who else?) is doing harm to the industry? If so how?
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Hmmm the problem is that the best solution would be to "try to use a different trope." The issue isn't that they are using the trope wrong, it's that the trope is soooo overused. So I guess the answer would be to be more creative and don't fall back to low hanging fruit. She does offer some alternatives, though. In one of the damsel in distress videos, she offered her character concept of a female character that was captured, but ends up freeing herself. And in the women as background decoration, she referenced Papo & Yo as a way of handling abuse in a way that didn't seem to mostly leave the abused person out of the narrative. But even still, both of these examples are that of basically not using the trope in question, and doing something else.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
The main feature Anita should probably have in her videos is the appearance of other women designers/writers/figureheads in the industry to give their own experiences. It would vary the perspectives given in the series and challenge the view some try to put forward that most other girls aren't bothered by what she talks about.
FF Seraphim
Member
Ah.... are you joking?
The reason everything has the "gate" suffix stems from the fact Watergate happened. If Watergate never happened or if it happened in a different location it would get a totally new title.
If another Watergate were to occur I guess they would just title it Watergate 2: Now with More Scandal!
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Actually I'd like to see an entire different video series devoted exclusively to that.
I think one of the cracked "articles" on gamergate best expressed my view of the -gate suffix:
Stargate Gategate
About the bolded: Huh?
People, or more specifically, those that are passionate about games, hate change. Maybe they see what she and others are doing as an attack on their one and only escape from reality. When someone they view as an "outsider" comes along and starts stirring things up a bit by trying to seek equality and change up the formula that they've become accustomed to for years, decades even, they get a little upset.
I'm not saying that is the case but I have seen it happen before. I ran (well, still do in a sense) a Counter-Strike fansite. After seeing countless players voice how upset they were at each and every patch that came out, I once joked that a patch could come out that would change a texture that had absolutely no impact on the game and people would still get mad. Within the next patch or two, a texture or a small bit of foliage in the back yard area was changed on (I believe) the Militia map for CSS and yes, people actually got upset about it.
People don't like change, even if the change is for the better or makes a whole hell of a lot of common sense. They're used to things, they're used to how things were and have a really hard time adjusting to any variance. I kind of see this whole thing as something similar. You have people saying that things need to be changed to promote equality, things that most decent human beings would agree are good things, but there is a stubborn group that will oppose those notions until the very bitter end. They see it as an attack on a constant in their life, gaming in this case. The only difference now is that these people aren't just complaining about a change in one game, they're complaining about a change to all of their games and the effect is magnified considerably.
outunderthestars
Banned
But her videos focus on an academic study of specific tropes, not how people feel about them. Losing focus serves o purpose and would only dillute the substance of her work.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I'm not seeing how an academic study of something can't source or interview other academics and figures involved in the same area, nor how it doing so would cause it to lose focus.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
This is all relevant, but a lot - and I mean a lot - of it is just plain misogyny.
This would all be moot if hers was only one of many serious cultural critiques available of the medium. Since she's basically all there is, she's expected to be all things to all people and that's not really fair. She should make the videos she wants to make.
And I'm sorry, but I can't help but feel 'she should include more of the positive examples' is partly an expression of status anxiety, or discomfort that the audience isn't being pandered to for once. There are so few good examples at the AAA level that giving more time to those would almost be intellectually dishonest.
And I'm sorry, but I can't help but feel 'she should include more of the positive examples' is partly an expression of status anxiety, or discomfort that the audience isn't being pandered to for once. There are so few good examples at the AAA level that giving more time to those would almost be intellectually dishonest.
meanspartan
Member
Dont care about her private life. I care that she basically destroyed a gamejam then immediately started her own.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
... is this a preface for a pro-GG stance or somethin'?
Mr_Antimatter
Member
What, so she walked into their offices and personally shut it down? She asked some questions about their policies, and their backers agreed with her. Not her fault in the slightest, no matter how much TFYC like throwing her under the bus to excuse their own managerial failings.
meanspartan
Member
No?
I am calling someone who manipulates internet rage to her advantage a scummy person.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Okay. So how is it relevant what you think of her if what you just wrote is not related to the topic?
...So you're pissed at TYC? No? huh weird.
meanspartan
Member
Someone asked in a post. I originally only mentioned her briefly as part of a longer post.
meanspartan
Member
Who is TYC?
Well, yeah. I guess I wasn't too clear in all of that. But essentially yes, a lot of it is just people being misogynistic for the sake of being misogynistic. They were misogynistic before this and will continue to be misogynistic after this.
This whole thing was just an excuse for those people to stop holding back and somehow feel "safe" in voicing their personal beliefs now through social media. Pushing for equality in games strikes a chord with both the stubborn, the people that hate without reason, the bandwagon jumpers, and the misogynists (and whatever weird cross-over that goes on within those groups of people).
Mr_Antimatter
Member
The fine young capitalists. The group who blamed her a ton of stuff they knew she didn't do in order to drive internet rage into funding their for profit project.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
The people who did the very thing you're accusing Zoe of doing.
meanspartan
Member
Im sorry, last I followed this in August, the consensus was that THEY were doxxed by Zoe Quinn. She was the clear "bad guy".
In the past month and a half, was it proven they were full of shit? If so, I am wrong and apologize for my ignorance.
Yes, it was unfortunately yet another debunked attack on her character to continue the narrative of bullshit to convince those on the periphery that Zoe must have done *something* wrong.
Just FYI, TFYC are not a charity. The money raised on IndieGogo goes into making the game, and 74% of any profits go to charity.
The things they accused her of were false. They claimed she DDOS their site on purpose, but later admitted it was simply the influx of traffic from the public discussion that overloaded their servers.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Pretty much. The idea that she directly DDOS'd them was basically without evidence from the start. If they had any, she would have been arrested for the cybercrime in question.
Its ok dude there is so much misinformation and shit flying in the air, its pretty easy to fall victim to it.
also Zoe is apparently now moderating this http://www.reddit.com/r/gamergate
Fairly certain they also recanted that. It was some random person, and they attributed it to Quinn because they thought they were in the same circles.
To be fair to them, TFYC never specifically called themselves a charity in their own material: TFYC is Matt, the money donated goes to his company to be used in the production of a game, if the game makes a profit a percentage will go to a charity that will be decided by the donators (colon cancer 'to cure butthurt'), the game concept will come from a woman. That's perfectly fine: it's an indiegogo project for a game, with a potential charity bonus at the end.
I do think it is misleading that TFYC is very often referred to by everyone else as a 'charity for women' though. Your donation goes to Matt and Autobotika, and even the potential charity if they make a profit is colon cancer.
http://pixietalksgamergate.wordpress.com/2014/09/16/tfyc-questions/
Mr_Antimatter
Member
They have on the DDOS thing, but they still blame her for them not getting media attention (as if she controlled the industry) and such.
They have piss poor management, and can't accept blame for anything. It's quite sad, really.
Fahrenheit
Banned
When ever I think about corruption in gaming journalism I don't think of a game dev getting publicity from a journalist friend. I more so think of people posting selfies of themselves kissing PS4s at a Sony press event (just an example). Or when I'm looking at a review on a site that is covered in adds for the game i'm reading the review on. Also look at all the "swag" unboxings on youtube from people in the business that they get from the publishers. But on the other hand all this anti gamer stuff a lot of these sites put out kinda feels like a personal attack on me as i call my self a gamer.
She's moderating a dead subforum.
meanspartan
Member
Exactly what I was talkin bout before my Quinngnorance (heh) led to that sidetrack.
I dont really give a shit about gamergate, no matter how much I love the man they call Jayne. But ya, the industry and the journalists who cover it are too cozy.
Review events, swag, etc. Hell, Ryan McCaffrey offered to host Microsoft's E3 conference. In what other industry could journalists get away with that?
It's a joke. Fairly certain the subreddit's only purpose was to frustrate GGers by taking the name first.
Paracelsus
Member
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Unless any of that leads to preferred treatment in reviews or quid pro quo for stuff, it's not an ethical violation. A gearhead website for cars would contain much of the same stuff. As would any enthusiast press.
Swag is just marketing. It doesn't directly lead to better scores, which seems to be what really matters in the end.
The 'anti-gamer' stuff shouldn't effect you if you aren't the vile, toxic, self-obsessed sort of 'gamer' the articles talk about. You know, the one you called you a "double N***** C** basket" or a 'stupid cheating F****t" for beating them in a round of halo.
(yes, thats actually happened. More times then I can count)
Those are the folks that are 'over' as the industry gets ever larger and the audience ever more diverse. The folks you see on 4/8 chan who acted all offended by that? Those are the toxic element, who, much like racists, hate people pointing out their crap to them.
Is this the true reason to why the main subforum for GG on reddit is KotakuInAction.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
It's weird, all of those things you mentioned mean absolutely nothing to me, and I really for the life of me can't figure out why anyone cares. Is it that you don't like seeing someone express enthusiasm for something you don't like? You don't like seeing someone excited for something you can't have? Why does the word "gamer" mean so much to you? Surely you do other things that are important to you, why build your identity as a gamer so much that you take it as a personal slight?
Mr_Antimatter
Member
The E3 conference thing? Legit conflict of interest, in a way. I agree journalists shouldn't do this, it gives a lack of objectivity.
Swag? Just a form of marketing, not the same as quid pro quo. Try to find a professional industry that DOESN'T have swag.
Ethics according to #GG lunatics: Lets burn everyone who disagrees with me... Sounds a heck lot like fascism if you ask me.
This coming from someone who lives in a country not long ago governed by a dictatorship.
Fahrenheit
Banned
Though that was real rotten when that happened
But I do think it effects press and review scores but without me spending hours digging around in podcasts and twitter posts it's gonna be hard to prove my point.
I mean on it's face I don't care about reviews or press as I don't really use the blogs in the first place nor do I trust the reviews they put out. And while I do like enthusiasm it's a little much to be posting pics of yourself kissing a plastic box. And sure a lot of other industries have the same issues as game journalism but isn't the whole counter argument to gamergate is games can be so much more? That people can use games to get through depression and other issues? Then why can't game journalism be more? Also not so much of a question of something I can't have but more so of crap I don't want, a plastic sword from a video game is not on my list of decor items. Asking why the word gamer means so much to me (or any other person) is kinda silly. I guess that's what makes me a gamer, when someone asks why I do for fun, my first answer is "I'm a gamer". Tons of people play games but not as many are entrenched in the hobby enough to call them selves gamer. Take any hobby and say "golfers are all assholes" now image if golf digest is saying that. Same point applies, many people play golf but few are golfers.
EDIT sorry for all the edits, i keep thinking of better ways to word my stance
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