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#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014

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But I do think it effects press and review scores but without me spending hours digging around in podcasts and twitter posts it's gonna be hard to prove my point.

Press coverage? Perhaps it gets you a mention. again, it's marketing, that's it's job.

Review score increase? Not likely from anywhere reputable. A $10 t-shirt isn't going to make a bad game good. Hell, Look at Destiny: millions spent in advertising, god knows how much swag, still average review scores.

OR look at the companies who give stuff out at PAX version the number of those tens of thousands of gamers who rush out to praise the end product. I've got a closet full of swag from games I honestly couldn't care less about besides their t-shirt being neat.

None of it rises to the level of Quid pro Quo, and none of it is really different form any other industry. I mean hell, take a look at your doctors office, and note all the stuff stamped with a drugs name, that's all swag.

Go to your bank, and note the stuff with their name on it they give out, that's swag.

Or your mechanic.

etc. Swag is just another form of marketing, a way to get your name out, and in peoples minds. It doesn't guarantee positive coverage.

Edit: Now, that isn't to say some swag can't rise to the level of quid pro quo. A T-shirt or such? probably fine. A custom branded ipad? Now that's probably inappropriate, unless it was some sort of raffle, and even then that's iffy. Most major sites\mags actually have gift policies to handle this. Anything over a certain value gets refused.

You know who doesn't have said policies? Smaller sites, youtubers, streamers, etc. The very folks a lot of GG people seem to think we should put all our trust into.
 
Press coverage? Perhaps it gets you a mention. again, it's marketing, that's it's job.

Review score increase? Not likely from anywhere reputable. A $10 t-shirt isn't going to make a bad game good. Hell, Look at Destiny: millions spent in advertising, god knows how much swag, still average review scores.

OR look at the companys who gives stuff out at PAX version the number of those tens of thousands of gamers who rush out to praise the end product. I've got a closet full of swag from games I honestly couldn't care less about besides their t-shirt being neat.

None of it rises to the level of Quid pro Quo, and none of it is really different form any other industry. I mean hell, take a look at your doctors office, and note all the stuff stamped with a drugs name, that's all swag.

Go to your bank, and note the stuff with their name on it they give out, that's swag.

Or your mechanic.

etc. Swag is just another form of marketing, a way to get your name out, and in peoples minds. It doesn't guarantee positive coverage.

We will have to agree to disagree. When you got a website taking add money from a publisher then posting a review of a game from that publisher it is a conflict of interest no matter how you slice the bread. And as far as getting swag from my bank goes, I don't write reviews for my bank or cover press events for my bank. If I did then it would an issue.
 
Swag doesn't guarantee any positive coverage, but it must be declared and in extreme cases refused outright. I understand that there will always be a grey area when it comes to freebies from publishers, but full disclosure is always the best course of action. An individual is rarely in the best position to judge how much their perspective is being influenced, so leave it up to the readers or avoid it entirely.
 
Asking why the word gamer means so much to me (or any other person) is kinda silly.

Not when the question is in the context of asking why you defend a hate movement you obviously know nothing about simply because it proclaims to be protecting the sanctity of video games.

Because from your posts I'm assuming you just went "hey, a thread about gamergate. It has gamer in the title. I need to be on the side of gamergate".
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
We will have to agree to disagree. When you got a website taking add money from a publisher then posting a review of a game from that publisher it is a conflict of interest no matter how you slice the bread. And as far as getting swag from my bank goes, I don't write reviews for my bank or cover press events for my bank. If I did then it would an issue.

I posted something higher up in the page for someone else, but the question applies to you too. So i'll just quote myself here.
What is the alternative though? There have been game ads since there have been game magazines and reviews. Sites need advertising. The Gamergate people know this because they went after Intel to remove ads from Gamasutra. The best advertising will obviously come from game makers. The interest in games is built into the audience. And I don't think the sites would be sustainable with ads only from peripheral products like controllers and random accessories, or even non related product ads (this page is brought to you by Ocean Spray Cranberry Juice).

As for which games to advertise. It's not like the gaming sites know in advance if a game is going to be good, and previews can only tell you so much. So they have companies buying ads on their site. And they'll buy ads a while before the game is even released, and before review copies are sent. It's advertising.

Pulling ads if the review is bad, either by the site itself or the advertiser would cause all sorts of issues. MHWilliams posted a while back about how it's handled on the site he writes for:
You want to know about ad revenue? For most sites, like mine, ads and editorial never meet. I believe our ads are handled by our parent company, Gamer Network, but I never see or hear anything about whoever handles them. When the ad takeovers (when the entire site is one big ad) pop up, I'm as surprised as you are.

As I said previously, that's how you end up with things like a full Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel ad takeover, while our review is a 2.5/5. We don't talk to them, they don't talk to us.
I believe most sites operate in the same manner, but that would be up to others to confirm.

I think that's the best way to handle advertising, as long as the game publishers get no say about reviews, I don't think there's any reasonable alternative. I'd love to hear some, though.
 
Not when the question is in the context of asking why you defend a hate movement you obviously know nothing about simply because it proclaims to be protecting the sanctity of video games.

huh? I support a hate movement? What are you even talking about? In my first post in this thread I criticized gamergate for picking on Zoe. Saying all gamers are assholes because a few people who call themselves gamers were assholes on the internet is like saying all Muslims are ......well I don't even think I need to finish this analogy
 
huh? I support a hate movement? What are you even talking about? In my first post in this thread I criticized gamergate for picking on Zoe. Saying all gamers are assholes because a few people who call themselves gamers were assholes on the internet is like saying all Muslims are ......well I don't even think I need to finish this analogy

My apologies then. I only saw your posts on this page and even tried to locate any previous posts so I'd make sure I wouldn't.... make an ass of myself.

I'll be going to bed now.
 

mo60

Member
I think 8chan is trying to go after this site now.I don't want to link directly to the thread, but it should be on the front page of that 8chan gg thread.It seems like there are laughing at the site in general and decided to not go after this site.
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
I think 8chan is trying to go after this site now.I don't want to link directly to the thread, but it should be on the front page of that 8chan gg thread.It seems like there are laughing at the site in general.
They've been discussing it for a while. We're part of the Shame Cycle. Or the Anti-expression cycle. There was a graph that made no sense explaining it. But neogaf was on the bad side.
 

mo60

Member
They've been discussing it for a while. We're part of the Shame Cycle. Or the Anti-expression cycle. There was a graph that made no sense explaining it. But neogaf was on the bad side.

They are also thinking of emailing Elizabeth Warren about gamergate. She won't look at those emails I bet if they are sent.
 
I think 8chan is trying to go after this site now.I don't want to link directly to the thread, but it should be on the front page of that 8chan gg thread.It seems like there are laughing at the site in general and decided to not go after this site.

Ohh I got namedropped in their GAF thread.
 
Ohh I got namedropped in their GAF thread.

DLhEt39.gif
 

KDR_11k

Member
I don't have a twitter so I'll just rant here :p:

Gamergate is completely useless in its current form. Everybody seems to understand it differently so there's nothing the journos could take away as a suggestion or demand (beyond the actions of the radicals which are obviously not something any journo would accept). What remains as a common point, "against corruption", is so loose that it's worthless. Nobody* is for corruption.

If you want some useful change then form a more focused movement with clear goals or demands that people can then follow. Tell them what you want to see, don't just yell random words and abuse at them. Establish a structure that can distance itself from the actions of those who use your movement's name for goals other than those of the movement. And those who are taking extreme measures to follow the movement's goals. And please get a better name than yet another silly Watergate spinoff, k?

As far as SJW/Anita/Zoe/whatever, that has zero to do with corruption (even the accusations to Quinn are so minor that they barely register among the piles of money thrown around by AAA publishers) but you're still yelling at them under some "ethics" banner. Political stances are neither corruption nor unethical. What you want is elimination of dissent which is what we call Gleichschaltung. You're not going to change anybody's mind on a political subject with random yelling. And yes, as several journos already pointed out, silence on political matters is a political stance too so don't come with BS like "stop talking about politics". Silence is acceptance.

And what about the freedom of the arts? Well, developers evidently appreciate criticism like that coming from Anita Sarkeesian. Because games are rarely a single unified artistic vision. Yes, some games require the use of tropes for their vision but most of the time it's just a mindless decision, sometimes it's not even a conscious one because people forget that there is a choice there in the first place. The real artistic decisions happen in other places of the game, often the tropes that annoy women are just window dressing, like the CD booklet story you got with old games. Who cares if Mario rescues Peach or DK's pile of bananas?

Me, I'd like developers to think before they trope, we're at a point where the "blank slate" for a game is practically "white gruff dude with a hitscan gun". That's practically an unthinking decision by now and one of the reasons people point at modern games as being extremely samey compared to ye olde 8 bit times where the main character usually wasn't even human and it was pretty common to play as a vehicle (especially a space ship) rather than some person. Within genres we're also seeing declines in diversity, e.g. in weapons where hitscan is the default rather than the apex and thus any slower projectiles are usually just a downgrade.

Don't let game devs stew in their own broth and don't attack those who bring new ideas to the table!

Note that all the talk above aimed at Gamergate is obviously aimed at the moderates within, the fanatics that started it follow goals that no non-fanatics can endorse.

*) Except marketers and who likes those guys?
 

mo60

Member
I managed to find out one of the things that may be happening next week related to gamergate.
wMMsyYb.png


The guy running the account mentions something disturbing in that tweet also.
 
OT: Eh, there are many journalists (not in games, obviously), that would love to have interviews and get into the minds of IS leaders and average militia men. They won't shut it out just because of the actions, just saying. Many journalists that deal with world conflicts are interested in reporting and investigating on all sides.
 
OT: Eh, there are many journalists (not in games, obviously), that would love to have interviews and get into the minds of IS leaders and average militia men. They won't shut it out just because of the actions, just saying. Many journalists that deal with world conflicts are interested in reporting and investigating on all sides.
Who would they interview? Milo, Adam Baldwin, IA, MundaneMatt, those assholes doing the AS 'documentary'? Do you really think giving those people airtime would help those in GG who don't share their toxic BS?

And what goals? There is no consensus within GG as to what the goal is beyond a generalised hostility to games journalism and feminist critique. Hell a few pages back there was a post from 8chan that specifically encouraged not having goals as it made it harder condemn GG and would prevent splits. The prevent splits parts were telling to me as the author was de facto acknowledging that significant numbers of the GG movement would be turned off by explicitly making it just about corruption and dropping the hostility to critical female voices
 
I am calling someone who manipulates internet rage to her advantage a scummy person.
Yeah. No. I'll admit you're trying to be somewhat reasonable but this shows the "debate' hasn't actually evolved since the day 1 false flag revenge rant. Just stick to just that "journalists and developers are too cozy" line you posted and you'll get no disagreement out of anyone.

I think 8chan is trying to go after this site now.I don't want to link directly to the thread, but it should be on the front page of that 8chan gg thread.It seems like there are laughing at the site in general and decided to not go after this site.
They seem to think the thread name change is new. It was changed to include #StopGamerGate2014 what, 3 days ago? 4? Ooh, and it seems your post got quoted there, congrats!
Weapons-grade Trollonium said:
There has been a sudden influx of anti gamer gate posts on the forum too.
All made by new users.
Yeah, all these member with 1000+, 5000+ and 10000+ posts and mods are just trying to get their foot in the door to make a name for themselves! (Yes I realize this makes me look meek and pathetically new in comparison, so I'm obviously just shilling for my Twitter account that doesn't exist!)
And jeez, their level of documentation of cherry-picked statements from EvilLore (and a lot of nice pics!) borders on creepy. They probably just have a crush on him/us but think we have cooties. EvilLore -- #GamerGate Sex Symbol
 
I saw someone post a vid here a while back of her lying about being a long time gamer, I found that to be shady.

I think the idea that Anita Sarkeesian lied is based on a misconception that everybody who plays games must be a fanatic about games. She is no fanatic. She has certainly played games since childhood, as she has said, and she's demonstrated fluency in the medium. The notion that she is lying, I put down to "fake geek girl" syndrome on the part of many of her critics. There is no substance to the claim.

(Pause here for traditional Scalzi article on geek gate-keeping.)

(WARNING: slight rant about gate keeping and victim blaming ahead.)

I really am astonished by the sheer quantity of attempts to discredit the messenger. It's not uncommon to see a discussion on a Tropes v Women video, or even the latest death threat, to be full of denunciation of Sarkeesian as a fake.

The latest ones even try to say she's not a real feminist, but is in fact pulling a long con. That's very disturbing and says more about the person making the accusation, because that denies the responsibility of whoever is making the death threats for their own actions which are far worse than anything Sarkeesian could logically be accused of doing. So angry nerds think they get to weaponize the death threats against the victim _and_ to act as gatekeepers to two distinct social groups. Which they don't.
 
Yeah, all these member with 1000+, 5000+ and 10000+ posts and mods are just trying to get their foot in the door to make a name for themselves! (Yes I realize this makes me look meek and pathetically new in comparison, so I'm obviously just shilling for my Twitter account that doesn't exist!)
And jeez, their level of documentation of cherry-picked statements from EvilLore (and a lot of nice pics!) borders on creepy. They probably just have a crush on him/us but think we have cooties. EvilLore -- #GamerGate Sex Symbol

Isn't that amazing? That feeling when you read people making up conspiracy theories about you. I still recall how I was in a group of people which had some dedicated following, which involved a theory that I am secretly a cover identity for multiple foreign government agents. A guy who wrote that post probably spent hours compiling all the "Evidence"—and I spent less than five minutes thinking about him that week!
Okay, that's a lie, another five minutes was spent me and my friends having a good laugh at him.
 

cheezcake

Member
Pretty nice article from The New Yorker
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/gamergate-scandal-erupts-video-game-community

Really like the last paragraph:

Those who wish to censor or expel certain creators and critics are often avid fans of video games, but their views are antithetical to its virtues. At their best, video games promote empathy and understanding by allowing us to experience virtual life from another’s perspective. Those who stand against honest debate and dialogue may think that they are protecting a beloved pastime, but their actions compromise its vibrant future.
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
There has been a sudden influx of anti gamer gate posts on the forum too.
All made by new users.

Are there "new users" right now? I don't recall a recent account verification waves. Actually I'm not even sure if Neogaf still does that. The welcome threads were always fun, watching some of the new users get banned right off the bat. Good times.
 
Are there "new users" right now? I don't recall a recent account verification waves. Actually I'm not even sure if Neogaf still does that. The welcome threads were always fun, watching some of the new users get banned right off the bat. Good times.

I believe Besada mentioned earlier in this thread that there had just recently been another wave of new members and that they still do it in waves.
 

SwissLion

Member
The idea that Sarkeesian's whole argument is debunked by her once telling a tutorial room full of non-gaming gender studies students "I'm not a big fan of Video Games" when introducing a humorous video showing off what I like to call the Gruffmanitis of Games to the tune of "Too many dicks on the dancefloor"

So fucking absurd.

Like seriously, is it impossible she could have not been a "fan" at that time in her life, but had a different perspective before and/or after? Or not been a "fan" but still recognised the potential for them to be better and have a desire to help that along? Or just using those words differently in different contexts, (classroom of non-gamers vs interviews with games media and introductions for gamers or devs)? No? You say she must be lying about how much she likes video games? And that means nothing she says has any merit and that she's defrauding people including the US government? Sounds legit.

It's not "Shady" to couch your language differently when addressing different audiences.

Also, moderators abiding by their definitively laid out forum moderation policies, up to and including the "We reserve the right to delete your shit and ban you for literally any reason because fuck you, we own and operate this space" that is laid out in most rules sections has never been, and will never be, censorship.

Especially in those first few weeks, when there was literally no discussion to be had except for digging into someone's private life. Threads were deleted from r/gaming because guess the fuck what it had nothing to do with Gaming. Threads were deleted from 4chan because they very quickly turned into spaces that violated the "no Raids" rule.

People weren't getting banned "For asking legitimate questions" because any "legitimate questions" were answered within days, if not hours. They were getting banned for breaking rules, or participating in off-topic and kind of gross threads often after repeated warnings. Quote the Streissand effect all you want, but it's always been a shitty excuse for people who enjoy digging unwelcomed into people's private lives.
 
Are there "new users" right now? I don't recall a recent account verification waves. Actually I'm not even sure if Neogaf still does that. The welcome threads were always fun, watching some of the new users get banned right off the bat. Good times.

I'm not sure if they misunderstood my post talking about the thread becoming more active.

Generally speaking when juniors pop into this thread they're pro-GG or at least devil's advocate type posters. It just feels like the thread got more attention from gaf members in general. (might be due to more news outlets reacting to it, though.)

The idea that Sarkeesian's whole argument is debunked by her once telling a tutorial room full of non-gaming gender studies students "I'm not a big fan of Video Games" when introducing a humorous video showing off what I like to call the Gruffmanitis of Games to the tune of "Too many dicks on the dancefloor"

It's kinda weird cause I wouldn't call myself a fan of video games either, yet I've actually made a video game.

I'm not sure if I'd even be posting on video game boards/interested if it wasn't for Smash Brothers.
 

Yagharek

Member
I think the idea that Anita Sarkeesian lied is based on a misconception that everybody who plays games must be a fanatic about games. She is no fanatic. She has certainly played games since childhood, as she has said, and she's demonstrated fluency in the medium. The notion that she is lying, I put down to "fake geek girl" syndrome on the part of many of her critics. There is no substance to the claim.

(Pause here for traditional Scalzi article on geek gate-keeping.)

What a great writeup by Scalzi.
 

Dawg

Member
I wish ShockingAlberto was around during the doritosgate disaster. Or maybe he was, I can't remember.

The huge NeoGAF thread had some points, but like #gamergate it became a witch hunt at the end. I still remember this because I mentioned I was a writer for a local gaming website and some people attacked me because I said something wrong about my site. IIRC, it was about swag not influencing review score. I mentioned a game where we got some pretty cool swag but the score was still very low because said game was simply bad. Unfortunately, I got the games mixed up and one GAF member looked it up and found the game I was talking about actually got a pretty high score. What ensued were all kinds of people quoting my post and calling me out on my bullshit, funny gifs included.

I didn't find out about my mistake until the next day (it was very late), so when I apoligized and said I simply mixed up the games, nobody cared or replied to me. It's like people prefer to point out the bad stuff about gaming journalism and don't care about an explanation, even if said explanation is the truth. People are really quick to judge. It's a shame.

I can attest to the many points Alberto said in his large post. They're all true. I've noticed people hating on "gaming website X" and saying they're shit only to forgive them once they give their favourite game a 10/10. The opposite can be true too. If you're the only 7/10 website in a review thread filled with 10s, you're sure to get backlash... even if people liked your website before.
 
I think the idea that Anita Sarkeesian lied is based on a misconception that everybody who plays games must be a fanatic about games. She is no fanatic. She has certainly played games since childhood, as she has said, and she's demonstrated fluency in the medium. The notion that she is lying, I put down to "fake geek girl" syndrome on the part of many of her critics. There is no substance to the claim.

(Pause here for traditional Scalzi article on geek gate-keeping.)

Anita is often attacked for not actually playing the games she criticizes, but I do not see why this is a bad thing. She picks a trope and demonstrates that it exists, by using as many diverse games as she can bring up. If I were looking for an example of particular feature in video games myself, I would try to first dig references like TVTropes, and then crowdsource extra examples via places like GAF, since one person can play only so many games.

That Scalzi article... he's right, but the part where he shows off all his geek credentials and uses them to insult the author of other piece is truly cringeworthy (although I have not read the original article, so I do not know whether that attack was uncalled for).
 

bootski

Member
I wish ShockingAlberto was around during the doritosgate disaster. Or maybe he was, I can't remember.

The huge NeoGAF thread had some points, but like #gamergate it became a witch hunt at the end. I still remember this because I mentioned I was a writer for a local gaming website and some people attacked me because I said something wrong about my site. IIRC, it was about swag not influencing review score. I mentioned a game where we got some pretty cool swag but the score was still very low because said game was simply bad. Unfortunately, I got the games mixed up and one GAF member looked it up and found the game I was talking about actually got a pretty high score. What ensued were all kinds of people quoting my post and calling me out on my bullshit, funny gifs included.

I didn't find out about my mistake until the next day (it was very late), so when I apoligized and said I simply mixed up the games, nobody cared or replied to me. It's like people prefer to point out the bad stuff about gaming journalism and don't care about an explanation, even if said explanation is the truth. People are really quick to judge. It's a shame.

I can attest to the many points Alberto said in his large post. They're all true. I've noticed people hating on "gaming website X" and saying they're shit only to forgive them once they give their favourite game a 10/10. The opposite can be true too. If you're the only 7/10 website in a review thread filled with 10s, you're sure to get backlash... even if people liked your website before.

he was around during that time. i was a lurker back then. i don't remember the specifics but i remember reading his general feelings of disgust about lauren wainwright's complaint that got florence fired/asked to step down.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
I feel like people are insisting there is a scenario where publishers are directly paying for coverage. The evidence of this appears to be that there are full-page ads for games, so clearly publishers are controlling the content.

So let me present my bona fides here: I used to be a games writer and I know plenty of people who still are. I have worked at several newspapers, all with sales departments. I have a bachelor's degree in journalism and have edited a book on journalistic ethics. The book was, in part, written by my father.

The scenario you have in your head? It happened once and it was so embarrassing for everyone in the industry that people have made fun of the organization (Gamespot) for years because of it. It happened because Gamespot was losing money and couldn't afford to lose advertisers so they let Sony and Eidos (who was kind of a slimy publisher pre-Square Enix) dictate content control. The people who got fired or left, the people saying right now that the Gamergate concern over ethics is farcical, chose to stand up for their words and opinions. Ethics has always been paramount to 99.9% of game journalists. The people who think that, because there is a Borderlands 2.5 background on a website that the reviewer is encouraged to give it more coverage or a better review, sales (i.e. the department looking to exchange ad space and money) and the editorial staff are separate and there has been a brick wall between them especially since the Gamespot incident. The two groups have no control over each other - they won't turn down an ad because the game is bad, they won't bloat a score because the game is advertising on the site.

The games that are getting huge coverage aren't getting it because the publisher is paying money for coverage. For one, that one be exorbitantly expensive. For two, you don't need to pay someone for coverage. You offer it to them and they'll usually do it because they want to keep people informed and because more content is always better than less. It's not that the AAA games get more coverage because they're spending more, they're spending more so consumers will be interested, and that drives clicks. Lots of people then go read those previews for hyped AAA games BECAUSE YOU, AS A CONSUMER, ARE HYPING THEM. If you didn't want them to cover Destiny, maybe you shouldn't have made it the best-selling new IP in a decade and sold out three waves of pre-orders for a game apparently no one likes (especially, as it turns out, reviewers).

If you want to know why writers don't say "Man, this game sucks," in preview events, it's because they have hope it won't suck and, here's the funny part, because people complain when you do that. Not publishers, you, the reader. They bitch that the writer isn't giving the game a fair chance. Oh no, people don't like Microsoft exclusive Too Human, what a biased site! Oh no, people have concerns about [niche Japanese title], they just hate everything that isn't a western FPS! Then when a game that doesn't entirely deliver gets a non-committal preview, people feel betrayed that the game was not condemned in an alpha state. Game journalists should have smothered it in the crib, they say.

Also, let's talk about embargoes, because this is always the big one. And if you think I'm going to blame you, the consumer, on this, you're partly right! I see so many people say "Embargoes are the publishers trying to keep information out of the hands of consumers, they are inherently unethical." So let's have this thought experiment.

Imagine there's Jason from Kotaku over there.
Imagine there's me from Whogivesashit dot com over here.

Jason gets his copy of Goat Killer VI, the hypest game out there, on Wednesday afternoon. Since I am in San Francisco, I get mine the Tuesday morning before. The game comes out the following Tuesday. As Jason puts his game in to the PS4, he checks his phone and sees a GAF thread saying "WHOGIVESASHIT GIVES GOAT KILLER VI PERFECT 10!" So people are going crazy to click on this review and find out just how awesome this totally awesome sequel is because it is the only review out there. Jason, who takes his time to play the game and gets a review out on Monday morning, isn't nearly as happy with it. He ran into significant bugs, discovered the ending was half-finished, and the game is rife with microtransactions, none of which made it into my review. But no one cares about Jason's far better-written review because everyone already made up their minds when it got a 10.

Embargoes ensure this isn't a thing. Whether you get a game on the Tuesday or Wednesday, everyone puts it up on that Monday. Everyone has time to play it and no one is scrambling to finish it to get a review up first. For the publishers, this makes sure no one scrambles through a game and ignores all the good parts. For reviewers, this makes sure they have ample time to play a game and write a review without worrying they're doing damage to the site by doing it right. For the consumers, it makes sure we get the best possible review we can get.

Now, you might ask about release day embargoes and, you know what, that does suck. That is a publisher knowing you are so beholden to the preorder and hype machine that it doesn't especially matter when the reviews come out. And you know who you should blame for that? Not the reviewers who accept the embargoes (the only other option is waiting for the game to come out, so it's not like you would get the review any faster), you should blame the publishers. The way you solve that is by telling them you won't pre-order games anymore because you don't like that they're holding back reviews.

But then every Assassin's Creed Unity thread is filled with "Day one" or the Dragon Age 3 thread I saw the other day where someone proclaimed it to be their GOTY and they can't wait to try it, so I don't have a super high hope of this one happening.

There have been occasions where publishers have said they'll only allow an earlier embargo date for review scores past a certain threshold - usually a 9 or above. This does happen. You know who's never a part of those early review embargoes? Kotaku, Gamespot, IGN, Giant Bomb, etc. It's always the little guys. Even if they do give it a good score, they don't bother with those tiered embargoes and no one gives them enough credit for that.

The reason it tends to happen with Youtubers more often is because youtubers are small, they want hits, they want free things, and they feel like celebrities when publishers are paying attention to them. This isn't true of all of them, but it is the reasoning publishers use when they do pursue Youtubers for threshold embargoes and preview events.

Honestly, if Gamergate wanted to stand for ethics, they would pursue publishers' many, many problems. But it's not about that, because it's about journalism. But then it's not about that, either, because it's about women.

Great post overall. I like that you mentioned the embargo dates based on the scores. That thing always seems ultra-iffy to me. Glad to see many (most?) gaming sites refuse to cave in to that shit.

But yes, this is possibly one of the best posts yet. Everyone definitely should read this.
 

JNA

Banned
Ok I just got a hilarious email. The email was titled, "GamersGate: Pre-Halloween gift from GamersGate!"

At first I was like "WAIT WHAT!? I'm not involved with them! Why is this being sent to me!?"

After checking the email, in turns out it was this:


Oh...OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. GamersGate...right. That site I ordered once a couple years back when they had that one really good sale for a certain PC game...

I just thought it was pretty funny getting this kind of email considering the events of...the other GamersGate. XD

Also I'm not going to bother using the code so for anyone that wants to use it, you are free to do so because I haven't ordered anything there in years lol.
 

Angry Fork

Member
About the bolded: Huh?

Based on what I've read there seems to be a difference in how 2nd and 3rd wave feminists view sexuality, with 2nd being more strident and 3rd more open. For example with prostitution, the 2nd wave having a strong anti-prostitution position (that the women are mostly/all victims) while 3rd thinks it's possible women could willingly want to be sex workers and they should be legally, morally defended.

I'm definitely more aligned with 3rd but I find Anita to be more like the 2nd when it comes to sexual imagery. I just don't get the criticism that basically boils down to men aren't supposed to enjoy attractive female characters. Or that female characters being scantily-clad is that big of a deal. It is if that's the only way women are portrayed, which is often (maybe mostly?) true, but criticism of the ''male gaze'' as if men can choose what they are/aren't attracted to is to me also criticism of ''female gaze'' and I don't know why either is wrong. Maybe I haven't read enough to determine the best position though, idk.

Anyway that's a little off topic but that's what I was talking about and the vibe I got off of Anita's videos.
 
Anita is often attacked for not actually playing the games she criticizes, but I do not see why this is a bad thing. She picks a trope and demonstrates that it exists, by using as many diverse games as she can bring up.

No, this is a terrible thing. Context matters, and any critic who criticizes a piece of media based on YouTube clips or TV Tropes write-ups is doing it wrong. Would you trust a film theorist who writes about films he has never seen? Or a TV critic who doesn't actually watch the shows he reviews? I sure as hell wouldn't.

The fact that Sarkeesian uses (uncredited) clips made by other people makes the foundations of her videos shaky, and it invites criticism from unsavory sources which would like to discredit feminist theory entirely. I don't know if it's due to lack of time to play the games, disinterest in actually playing the games, or what, but it really hurts her videos, which otherwise make pretty strong points.
 
No, this is a terrible thing. Context matters, and any critic who criticizes a piece of media based on YouTube clips or TV Tropes write-ups is doing it wrong. Would you trust a film theorist who writes about films he has never seen? Or a TV critic who doesn't actually watch the shows he reviews? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I don't need to play Dead Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball to understand it is purposefully designed to appeal to mainstream male sexuality. Same can be said about the warehouse full of other such titles chock-full of beautiful buxom babes with big bouncing breasts.
 
I don't feel obligated to read through all of 50 shades of grey to know that the sexual scenes show a toxic and harmful portrayal of BDSM.

Anita's looking at insular specified tropes within a narrative, that type of criticism doesn't require a full understanding of the entire product to function/be sufficient.
 
I don't feel obligated to read through all of 50 shades of grey to know that the sexual scenes show a toxic and harmful portrayal of BDSM.

Anita's looking at insular specified tropes within a narrative, that type of criticism doesn't require a full understanding of the entire product to function/be sufficient.

You're not a professional critic. There's a big difference between you and Sarkeesian in that respect. If she's going to analyze a work, she actually has to put in the time. It's her job.
 
No, this is a terrible thing. Context matters, and any critic who criticizes a piece of media based on YouTube clips or TV Tropes write-ups is doing it wrong. Would you trust a film theorist who writes about films he has never seen? Or a TV critic who doesn't actually watch the shows he reviews? I sure as hell wouldn't.

The fact that Sarkeesian uses (uncredited) clips made by other people makes the foundations of her videos shaky, and it invites criticism from unsavory sources which would like to discredit feminist theory entirely. I don't know if it's due to lack of time to play the games, disinterest in actually playing the games, or what, but it really hurts her videos, which otherwise make pretty strong points.

Context only particularly matters when you're talking about seeing the whole thing. You don't need to play Senran Kagura to see what's wrong with it, but it makes sense to be fair and see the context in which it uses its stripping and not just isolated clips (though it is the same level of awful in either one).

Not that this really matters because the "Anita takes all this stuff out of context! She's never even seen the games she's talking about!" stuff is bullshit, anyway. The entire point of the kickstarter was for her to get this:

aSYVB7S.jpg


She obviously didn't use these for footage.
 
Look, as nasty as the sources are (which is why I'm not going to post links), it's been proven that a lot of her video clips were taken off of other videos. And she didn't credit her sources, either.

I don't know how many of the games in those stacks she's played, but for whatever reason, she didn't use her own gameplay as sources for the videos.
 
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